Hi Heldincompassion, don't think we've met but I wanted to let you know how I think I would feel in that situation...
I think I would really struggle with the unpredictability of scheduling, lateness and cancellations.
As a comparison for you, I've been seeing my T for 2 years and she has cancelled once due to illness. She asked for a session to be moved 15 mins later 5 hours before it was due to start and once arrived simultaneously with me, so not late, exactly. Even so, I've struggled to form a secure attachment. I hate her holidays, changes to working days... Though all of these are notified well in advance. I know, I should be very grateful!
I would struggle with thinking she didn't care about me, that I was over-reacting, that I couldn't depend on her, if I had experienced what you had. I am very impressed you have trusted her as much as you have.
I'm sorry this is a possible barrier for you, I know it would be for me - it seems disrespectful of the work you are doing, somehow. One of the things that I have really responded to is the almost reverential attitude towards our time and the respectful way she responds to my distress at perfectly legitimate disruptions to my routine.

I hope you can find a way to discuss this with your T in a way which reflects how difficult you find it. And that the situation improves. I understand your reluctance to start again...
Good luck,
Iris xxx

My T ONCE was twenty minutes late (previous client went into melt down but I did not know that) and I was SOOOOOOOOO upset. I got up to leave and had to be persuaded to stay. I asked straight out "How come the previous person mattered, but my distress and anguish just now in the waiting room did not?" He apologised profusely.

But if he kept being late etc I would so yell at him. I would point out that he was being
1. unprofessional
2. If I was paying (my sessions are free = NHS) I would not pay for time I did not have.
3. I have already told him if he messes with my time, by being late etc, I will send him an invoice charging for wasting MY time and giving him my hourly rate. ( I still like that one! LOL )
4. I would report him to someone more senior.
5. I would buy him a watch with alarm settings.

It is really not okay how she is messing you about with these times. REally.

I am amazed you have not read her the riot act already.

I know how hard it is looking for another T. Not a task to embark on easily, but sometimes we stay too long with the wrong one. She may be the right one for you, only you can know whether to move on or not. But do tell her that you require better punctuality.


Interestingly I have the opposite problem - my t runs over all the time. I now wear a watch that always goes off 'beep beep beep beep' when my time is up - but he just ignores it. Since it is in my favour (I get more time with him ) I don't do anything more. I feel I have pointed out the time to him and if he chooses to ignore it - that is his choice. But sometimes our sessions run over by 45 mins!!!!! I have had a two hour twenty minute session that I thought was an hour and half.

Hello HIC,

I would not be able to tolerate it either, (not strong enough yet to see it totally as their fault) I need consistency, and I would take it as a lack of respect.

Isn't therapy about growth and change? Maybe approaching her, and honestly telling her how it makes you feel would foster growth in her.

My T says we change each other- just by the sharing and caring. We share what's important to each of us, and because of the bond, we try to respect things about each other. Make sense?

Talk earnestly with her, without strings attached (easy for me to say...) and see what happens.
Good topic...as I am sure you are not the only person with this issue. In 3.5 yrs, my T has never forgotten me for an appointment. Fashionably late (5 min) at times...but he always makes up for that.
Good topic! I hope you find some resolve.

Hi HIC... I think you have been very generous with her. I think she is not being respectful of your time and the therapeutic frame. I can understand once or twice calling at the last minute... but missing sessions, routinely being late, making all those changes... that is just disrespectful and totally inconsiderate of her.

Do you pay for sessions? I would sit down and tell her that when she cancels with less than 24 hours notice then the next session is FREE. If she is late, she gets paid less (pro-rate her fee according to time, unless she makes it up on the other end). Tell her you go through considerable arrangements to be there on time and you expect the same from her.

Aside from just being inconsiderate, there is the matter of your attachment and her inconsistency undermining that. Honestly, I have learned that when people are consistently inconsistent that is a RED FLAG for trustworthiness. My oldT would cancel me with little notice (to do personal things, not that he had an emergency or anything) and he would move my appointments around quite often. I put up with it but then everything exploded and he was not in the end, trustworthy as a person.

My current T I have been seeing twice a week for 18 months now. He has NEVER cancelled me with less than 24 hours notice (and he is a fully booked T). He has changed my appointment day/time for non vacation reasons about 4-5 times all with 24 hours notice at least, and usually more. He has never stood me up (oh there would be hell to pay for that! )

There was a time about six months ago when he was running late (by 10-15 minutes) with the patient before me. I was so annoyed when he did that three times in three weeks and so I read him the riot act. I typed up notes and read them to him about how his behavior made me feel and how it was hurtful and I wondered why I was so unimportant to him and how can I work on my attachment and trust him when he was so inconsistent. I told him that I do understand this can happen occassionally when a client is upset and needs some extra time, but it was the same client all 3 times and I did NOT get extra time on the other end, so I was left with 35 minute sessions where I was the one leaving in an uncontained emotional state. He fixed that immediately and it does not happen any longer.

So I do think you have a right to be hurt and angry and you also have the right to call her out on her bad behavior. I would give her another chance after you have this talk with her and if she ignores your feelings then I would look around for someone else. Perhaps you will find a better situation that is less hurtful to you. I know it's overwhelming to think about starting over. It was for me after being with oldT for almost 3 years, but I was forced to do it and in the end, I'm in a healthier relationship now.

Hugs to you
TN

hi Held (you've been "Heidi" in my head for quite some time, until I realized I just don't know how to read...)

I'm such a nervous wreck, putting up with that seems unthinkable to me-- my T has been as much as 10 minutes late, and that's enough to make me think she's forgotten who I am. It sounds like your T is totally worth it to you, but the thing is, she *is* a professional, hired to do a job. From what you're describing, she's acting more like that friend you can never seem to pin down for a coffee date-- and if that's the case, she might be diluting some of what therapy's about, in my opinion.

I can relate to having a major logistical roadblock in therapy and being unsure how and if to continue. That feeling of "how could I have put up with this until now??" sounds familiar. I've come to see this as a sign of progress. Even though the uncertainty about WHAT to do is kind of killing me, I see that it stems from being better able to identify and voice my needs. The next challenge, then, is figuring out how the relationship can make room for the new YOU that is unwilling to put up with that crap! If both parties are willing, there is hope!

Good luck


effed

Hey HIc, Just reading your post the other day caused me to fume and have all sorts of negative feelings. This isn't acceptable and you have given T a fair go. What is her problem?

If we did this as clients - how many times do you think the T's would accept it before saying something or saying it is a problem? What is happening to you would be a red flag for me. I couldn't keep going if my T did it to me.

Hi HIC,

I will be starting my own practice soon, in the alternative healthcare field. I wouldn't dream of engaging in such unprofessional behavior.

It is easy for me to suggest firing her, but I'm not in your situation. I know how hard it is. But perhaps she knows this, and is taking advantage of that fact. This T also sounds as if she has some issues herself, and what she is doing sounds a bit like self-sabotage. Put yourself in her shoes- how would you run a business? If you kept breaking promises, how long would you expect to stay in business? What kinds of questions would you ask yourself if you continued running it so poorly? I wonder what her books and records are like and if she does any marketing. It sounds quite sloppy.

What is also interesting is that T's and practitioners in similar professions have a (usually 24 hr) cancellation policy. This is hard to enforce when the practitioner continues to violate this policy.

It is appalling too, that one of the services she is selling IS trustworthiness!!!

If she is running her own practice, which is what most T's do, she probably relies heavily on referrals to generate clientele. Aside from how devastating her behavior is to a client with insecure attachements, she is treating her customers poorly and is not taking her business seriously and if she continues she may find herself with no clients. And that would be a good thing.

I know that this is more than just about business but I wanted to offer this perspective. There is really no excuse for the way she is conducting herself.

HIC,

I'm also sorry that you had to be on the receiving end of all of this. It's not right. Hope that things are "made right" soon for your sake as well!

P.S. Oh, a couple of you had asked if I pay for sessions with T. We have health insurance that pays for most of it. Although we pay for the health insurance, so maybe it's kind of the same thing? Anyway, I have a twenty dollar co-pay each week. Somehow it doesn't seem like enough for me to throw a fit about her being ten minutes late over, but maybe I'm not looking at this the right way. I don't know.

I've just been reflecting a little about everything that has been happening and felt like updating my thread. If anyone has any thoughts or interpretations to offer, great. If not, I'll just consider this a form of online journaling.

I've had a very rocky and disruptive road of it in therapy for about eight weeks now. It kinda started like this.

-Sometimes T seems oddly triggered by my stuff, which most of the time is okay, but during this particular session she was basically venting her indignation and ranting more than helping me sort out my own thoughts and feelings. I thought she was a little out of line, but she seemed to be in a bit of a mood, and I decided it was fine for once, even though I felt a little neglected (especially because she forgot to ask about some important stuff that had come up for me during the week).

-Then the next session she never showed up. I wrote about that here. I felt rather hurt and told her I was taking a break. About a week and a half later I called to schedule an appointment because I wasn't coping well without her.

-Anyway, that turned out to be the session where she was half an hour late and I could only stay 25 mins because I had a babysitter waiting for me to get back.

-The next session was okay, but because things had been so choppy I had a hard time getting into anything deep and was basically just babbling. T announced at the end that she was going on vacation the following week-- perfectly acceptable thing to do, but it would have been more courteous to have mentioned this was coming up a couple weeks prior.

-So, two weeks pass and I'm waiting anxiously to see T, when she calls to reschedule (an hour and a half before my appointment) because of a PTA meeting. Yep, that's my T, star mom of the PTA. Normally I might not have cared so much, but coming on top of everything else I just . . . I don't know. My pride couldn't take being so de-prioritized. I emailed her later and said I was going on another break.

It's now been nearly three weeks since I've seen T. I'm responding better than I would have thought. I actually feel freer and lighter instead of distraught. I suppose it's possible she may have been causing me more stress than I realized. But I wonder if I haven't just repressed a lot of feelings I must be having about this. . . because the eight months of hard and productive work we did together just seems sort of unreal now. It's like the spell of attachment has been broken. The connection feels like a distant and unreal memory, and to some extent so does T. I have an appointment scheduled to meet a potential new T on Monday, that I'm somewhat excited about, but I don't know.

I wonder if I'm somehow doing the wrong thing, or handling this all wrong? I don't want to go back at this point, because I don't want to face having to lecture T for her failures, or face the pain that her carelessness has caused me. Am I just being really cowardly and emotionally irresponsible to run? We did do some great work together, and we did have a great connection. I believed that she genuinely liked and cared about me and I still do. It seems messed up that it can all fade into nothingness like this. I just really don't care to see her anymore for now, and the fact that I can drift away so easily and feel so okay about things is somehow disturbing.

Okay, so that is my unfiltered and circular ramble for the day. I hope all of this is not getting on anyone's nerves!

Heldincompassion

Hi, Held...I'm sorry for you having to deal with the issue of inconsistency, I used to have that with my old T and it blew the therapy eventually too, since I lost the tenuous trust I had built with him when I realized that when the chips were down he would not be there for me if there was something more important to him than my session time. Especially since he did not seem to understand how it threw me. It makes sense that you'd need to push her away because it feels too bad to care about someone who has let you down? Something like that? anyway- it doesn't seem abnormal or something to be concerned about, from my perspective, but yet a good thing to recognize and reflect upon. It may be that the feelings will surface later, but for now, I'd just go with those lighter, freer feelings and let it be, perhaps. It doesn't make you a bad person to not be miserable about it right now, y'know? It just just means that there has been some kind of deal-breaker that happened in your mind, and you could decide what to do about it, give it some time.
Good luck with the appointment. Let us know how it goes...

Beebs

Thanks BB. What you say makes sense and is very non-pathologizing. I appreciate it.

So, yesterday I went to visit this other T. My first impressions were not the greatest. The parking lot behind her building was tiny and confusing to navigate. The painted lines were barely discernible and people were parked every which way. I hate that kind of thing, cuz not knowing what I'm "supposed" to do always throws me, lol.

Anyway, I made it into the building and the waiting room felt a little disappointing. Colors and furniture didn't seem well coordinated and the decor was a bit kitsh-y. It was also cramped in there and small. It gave the feel of a more "budget" kind of operation, which is odd because this T charges about the same hourly fee my regular T does and they both seem to have full case loads, yet Ts office set up definitely has a more elegant and luxurious feel. I suppose she's simply prioritized that aspect of things more.

Anyway, I was sitting there feeling a bit out of place and homesick for T's office, when I started thinking that really aside from this punctuality and scheduling issue, T herself is nearly perfect, I was hardly likely to find anyone better or that I had a more complete rapport with, and what was I doing here anyway? This attitude seemed a bit unfair to the T I was about to see, cuz it was basically setting her up for failure, but I couldn't quite help it.

Once I actually met her and was ushered into her office things got a bit better. Her office was roomy and comfortable, she had the softest and coziest recliners to sit in-- I really loved that, lol, it felt so relaxing, and she offered me something to drink, which seemed to set a friendly tone to things.

She herself is late middle aged, calm, mild mannered, seems confident and very polite. I didn't have the nearly instant intuitive recognition of "rightness" that I felt when I met T for the first time, but neither was there anything about her that felt at all objectionable, either. She actually had a very relaxing presence.

Basically during the session I filled out paperwork, gave her a brief description of my problems and desires for treatment, which I think included all the salient points but was sketchy on detail, and she described her overall approach and treatment recommendations. In a nutshell, she's really into hypnotherapy and seemed to think that my issues were of a sort that we could expect good results from that approach. I have troubles with "spacing out" and "floatiness" that can be very annoying. My current T has taken the more traditional route of trying to get me to recognize what triggers these episodes and what the triggers mean-- this T implied that by working with altered states of consciousness she could train me to pull myself out of a dissociative state and operate from a more fully present consciousness. This sounded *very* promising and attractive, supposing it's true, but I'm not at all sure how I feel about being hypnotized. . . I told her this and she mentioned some things about how it's very gentle and safe when done by a trained clinician, but said I should research it for myself and call her later to book an appointment if I decide I want to try.

I don't know. The thing is, this woman is a stranger and I don't know if I trust her enough to let her play with my mind like that. I mean, why should I? If current T wanted to hypnotize me I'd probably be okay with it, but that's not really her style. Last night I started to think I'd like to go back to see T to at least talk things over. I sent an email asking for available appointment times last night, and she's yet to write me back. Normally she answers emails about scheduling quite quickly, or first thing in the morning (like around seven), so this of course is making me anxious, edgy, and sad, despite the things I keep trying to tell myself about rational expectations.

So, in short, here we go again. I'm back to being stressed by T (even if unreasonably so this time) and unsure of where I'm going with all of this.

*big sigh*

Hi again HIC,

Sorry it's all so stressful and confusing still.

For what it's worth, I've never received hypnotherapy, but I used to be very interested in hypnosis, and based on the research I did about it, it's not nearly as dangerous as people tend to think it could be. Contrary to popular belief, it's not really possible to hypnotize someone into doing anything that goes against their basic values. Your brain would reject the suggestion even in a hypnotized state.

On the other hand, I don't think you should try anything you're not comfortable with. This is a somatic T, right? I'm actually surprised that hypnosis would be her first choice for dealing with dissociation. It could probably work, but it's totally opposite to the route my T has taken. Granted, I wasn't terribly dissociative to start out, but I did tend to go foggy in sessions with my old T and other stressful situations. My new T has worked with me on grounding and orienting myself in the present and paying attention to body sensations, and between these two, I seem to be zoning out much, much less. Did you talk to her about your particular interest in somatic work and your reasons behind it?

Take care!

((((((HIC)))))

Such a hard position to be in. Of course you are going to have all kinds of doubts and minimize the impact OldT's flakiness had on you. Hope you can hang in there and see it through. Have you talked to OldT about how the cancellations affect you?



Liese

Hello HIC: Thought I would offer my two cents worth. I think it is very important for you to find someone who respects your time and is prompt and consistent. It is clearly not your old T if you have brought this issue to her attention and she continues to disrespect you. Even if you feel she's compatible in other senses, I find it hard to believe that she hasn't contacted you to find out why you want a break or to make sure you are okay. I think you made a good decision to check other T's out. The second T sounds promising but perhaps you should take this opportunity to meet with several others before you invest more time and energy in anyone new. Look at it as a great time to make a positive change by asserting yourself and taking care of your needs. Good luck.

BLT,
Thanks for weighing in on this! What you say about hypnotism is congruous with what I had already assumed and with the "research" (basically reading on WebMd, Mayo Clinic, and some psychology websites) that I've done here lately. However, this T did mention that she does ego state work with people while they are under hypnosis, and that sometimes repressed memories emerge which she then brings them back into their adult, fully present mind to process. This is interesting and for all I know legit, but I don't think it's for me. I'd be concerned about mistaking symbolic images for actual memories (the possible occurrence of "false memories" seems to be one of the more controversial elements of hypnotherapy) and in any case if I have repressed some memories I'm thinking I'd just as soon they stay that way, lol. Also, I'm worried that if I spend much time hanging out in a hypnotic trance it might increase my dissociative tendencies rather than reduce them. The T said this wouldn't happen, but I think I'd rather not find out for sure the hard way.

quote:

Did you talk to her about your particular interest in somatic work and your reasons behind it?

You know, I really should have researched somatic therapy more before I went to see her. I didn't feel I knew enough about it to discuss it with her at all competently, so I just went in to see what she was like and what she would say. I was under the impression that she was a "somatic T" at least potentially because somatic work was listed under her specialties on her psychology today profile, along with several other alternative kinds of therapies. I was a little surprised that hypnotherapy seemed to be so much at the core of her approach. She did mention EMDR and bilateral stimulation, but said she wouldn't recommend those while I'm pregnant. She offers "normal" talk therapy as well, but seemed kind of ho-hum about it. I don't think it's her passion.

Liese,
Aw, thanks for the hugs and support. Yeah, this is not the most comfortable place to be, that's for sure. I'm starting to hope that I can sort things out with old T after all, for the sake of restoring my equilibrium if nothing else. She's good with that, when she's not busy upsetting it, that is.

quote:

Have you talked to OldT about how the cancellations affect you?

I've expressed some annoyance and complained in my own way (which is mild) so yes, she does know, or should know, it's been a problem. I guess I haven't addressed it as directly or adamantly as I could (which is maybe something that needs to change). I tend to be non-assertive and non-confrontational, which T is *well* aware of and the suspicious part of me is a little worried that she is taking advantage of that, like "Oh, HIC is my client that loves me no matter what. I can always reschedule her."

Y'know, as I type it occurs to me that I may have some mother-daughter reenactment going on here. Emotional closeness of a sort accompanied by a profound lack of consideration, which I somewhat grudgingly accept as part of the game. It feels comfortable in the sense that it's familiar, even though it is messing me up. Yikes. But what are people supposed to do when they are in reenactment? Run or battle it out? If the latter, then how?

Hoosier,
Thank you for commenting and sharing your thoughts. Everything you say makes plenty of sense and is a caution worth duly noting. I think I'm going to at least tentatively explore whether I can continue working with T, although I will stay open to other options and try to keep my wits about me.

Everyone,
Just as an update, as the hours were ticking by yesterday and T had yet to email me back, my angst kept mounting so I impulsively fired off another email. It was the Emily Dickinson poem, "After Great Pain", just the text of the poem, with no other commentary. Cryptic and passive aggressive, yes. I wondered if T would get it. But apparently it conveyed at least something to her because within ten *minutes* of sending it she replied to both emails. Her response to the poem one was, "Powerful poem. I like Emily Dickinson" which amused me, and in the other email she gave appointment times and answered a brief question (not related to all this mess) that I had asked her. I'm going back to see her next Monday. Wish me luck!

Phew, this got long. I feel like I'm turning this thread of mine into a blog or a diary or something. Thanks for reading to anyone who has made it this far.

quote:

It feels comfortable in the sense that it's familiar, even though it is messing me up. Yikes. But what are people supposed to do when they are in reenactment? Run or battle it out? If the latter, then how?

I'm still looking for the answer to this... let me know when you figure it out...

Good luck on Monday! I really hope you are heard

quote:

But what are people supposed to do when they are in reenactment? Run or battle it out? If the latter, then how?

I think the best possible scenario is to realize what is being reenacted, then try to change something about the pattern of your own behavior to make it better this time. It isn't easy since we tend to want to repeat the same things over and over.

((hugs))

I wouldn't tolerate it. I suppose that part of the reason you are in therapy is because of abandonment issues? is that right? if so then her cancelling is actually not helping with any of that sort of stuff, it might actually be making it worse.

My T has a tendency to be the last one to pick me up in the waiting room. I think all sorts of things but I tell her every time. I challenge her right to the end. I'm not having a therapist who doesn't care and if it means challenging her and getting a response, than it is what it is. Ha.

Anyways, yeah I would say bring it up. It's causing you problems then its a discussion and hopefully a growing through it.

Updating again.

Yesterday I went back to see my T, after what turned out to be a four week break (due to her vacationing and my vacillating). I was feeling a little ambivalent when I drove up for my appointment (disorganized attachment, perhaps?) but it turned out to be really, really good to see her again. Simply being settled in her office again felt very comfortable and somehow "right."

It was a tranquil session. One of the first things T did was to ask, in an uncharacteristically embarrassed way, if she could "reframe something." She then pointed out that I've been titling my scheduling related emails of late things like "taking a break" or "returning from exile" and she said that she thought what I was really doing was taking control of my counseling, and that that was perfectly acceptable, that it was a good thing. She seemed a little self conscious, and perhaps I am attributing rather too much subtlety to T here, but I took her words and her manner together as a tacit acknowledgement that my leave takings and absences have been my way of trying to exercise assertiveness for the sake of self protection in response to the slipping up she's done of late. There seemed to be something decidedly conciliatory in her manner that made me think she knew and accepted she had been somewhat at fault. She was if anything more gentle and attentive than usual, and she started the session right on time.

So, even though I had been provisionally planning on speaking a little more sternly and decisively about the disruptions that have happened, I felt mellowed and warm and fuzzy and thought that perhaps all that needed to be conveyed had been conveyed and that further words on the matter were unnecessary. Of course this could all be wishful thinking and imagination on my part, but I've decided to give T another chance and see if she reforms on her own without me having to throw a fit.

During the rest of the session we talked about spirituality, unresolved grief, exploring different ways to treat my dissociative tendencies, and the idea of trying a little guided imagery at our next session. Nothing earthshaking was established or revealed, but on the whole I felt reassured that we are on the same page as regards my treatment and that there is a good likelihood of continued progress if we keep working at things and maybe trying some different strategies.

Hope feels good, and it also feels good to have T back, at least for now.

Thanks again to all of you who have commented here, and to effed, BLT, and FMN for your recent comments. FMN, it's great to see you back on the forums! Hope all is going well with you.

Held

I like the way you construed what she said. It makes sense. I'm glad you are happy. And as screwed up as she has been, she earned some points in my book for validating that you were just standing up for yourself and/or trying to take control of your therapy. Some other rotten T might try to put it all on you.



Liese