Holy schmoly...!! thank you for all the responses, it's gonna take me awhile today to respond, because there are a lot of interesting points in here. I hope it's a helpful discussion for others beside just me. It seems like it.
Ninna, thank you for your helpful reply..I could relate to your post, I had the same feelings about my last T, who counseled me online, and for some reason, he never felt safe enough for me to do the work with, even though I had strong and tender feelings about him, and I ended up leaving since my depression was getting much worse, not better with him. I'm not afraid with Cowboy T like I was with Guru. With Guru I had tons of feelings and responses because my transference was so intense, and probably multi-layered, in that I would transfer feelings from any relationships, not just parental, onto my T. And I was very attached (still am
) But not with Cowboy- with him it's like- sometimes I can go in there, and just cry uncontrollably for most of the session, when we talk about Guru T- but the rest of time, I don't really feel much of anything, most times. I'm not really concerned, unless it's unconscious- about him leaving me, or me leaving him. It's so good that you have a T who holds steady and will not leave you behind. Sounds like you are on the right track with her.
((((Ninna)))
DF- so nice to see you- I have seemed to be missing your posts lately, for some reason, so it's just really nice to see you and interact. I think what you said about apathy being a way to avoid, might be true for me, too. I guess Cowboy would agree with that - idk, I've been apathetic for *so long* and the only time I broke out of that apathy which feels like my authentic self (I tend to "manufacture" emotions in order to fit in appropriately)was with guru T- but then I sunk into a pit of despair when I realized that this man, the first person for many years who has had the effect of waking up some emotions- also had no personal emotion or investment in me, beyond that of a "client." It just did something weird to me.ah, well- it is good to see you, dear DF...(((((DF)))) I hope you are doing well today.
LL, it was great to read your post- you said a lot of things that really resonated with me. In particular-
quote:
That unless what I’m saying is interesting, entertaining or relevant to the other person in some way, then whatever I say just feels pointless and boring and meaningless. (Went on about this at length in my Update thread.) I wonder if you haven’t got the same set up – and that getting to feel like your stories do have some meaning is dependent on T giving them meaning in some way. Otherwise there’s the inevitable, 'what’s the point' feeling. Somewhere in here is the obvious point that we have to learn that our own stories are interesting, to us in the first place. Dunno how to get that though. Any ideas?
Yeah, in a way, since therapy is an "art" as they say- it makes sense that if the interactions are not relevant or somehow entertaining of thought -provoking- than the point is lost. Similar to listening to a live concert, you are there, enjoying it (or not enjoying it) in the moment, and if you go away and forget all about it- and the conductor does too- then the experience might disappear, but it still existed in that particular moment, and will be impacting both conductor and players or listeners in unconscious ways, probably. Like any interaction- the moment comes and goes and is gone. So it's really an existential issue, I suppose- do I exist? I'm not sure I do, outside of this present moment...so then it brings up the issue of dependency, not being comfortable with my self being held in existence by some other being, yet longing for- what? It probably all goes back to the womb or something crazy like that. But I still feel that unless I'm memorable or I am someone he looks forward to seeing, to my T- that I don't really exist, somehow. It's kinda a weird thing, and it was hugely intense with Guru- that's why I emailed him SO much. I needed to exist for him outside of sessions, somehow. I'm wondering if this is the fear of annhilation- or if that is something entirely different that people are contending with altogether. Thank you for your thoughtful comments, LL. I'm going to try to reply on your thread later today, if I ever get a chance to finish this massive post, which is actually taking me *all* day, since, it seems like I only have three minutes to read or write anything before I have to go do something else- (trust me, this is a development I'm loving- clearly things are getting better! I just don't know how, or why)
(((((LL)))))
Mayo, it is very nice to see you! I'm glad that your session worked out for you. Sometimes it is just good to have a little outside perspective, rather than a lot of intense work on deep issues. I think that's what you are getting at, and that it's ok to just need that. ((((Mayo))))
xoxo- if lcinical depression means apathy, and loss of purpose or meaning- than that is true... xoxo, I have nothing to compare my experience with , though, so- it's hard to say. I do take anti-depressants, I'm on a very high dose of sertraline, and my Doc may add something next month- but I'm so much hugely, vastly better than I was (often bedridden and completely unable to make the smallest decision) that it's hard to think that this is clinical depression- compared to how I used to feel, I am on some kind of high.
But I'm still unfocused, have very poor memory, and this apathy that comes and goes, now, at least, instead of just being a part of my nature. I experience some caring moments now, that unrelated to Guru T, although I suppose everything still relates back to him in my mind, in some way. It sort of feels like he is psychically, my father. But he's gone. Now zoloft is my means of survival. I think I have transference with zoloft- haha. Thank you so much for your concern, xoxo. ((((xoxo))))
Yaku, this was very simple, straighforward and excellent because of that:
quote:
Besides healing? I want to connect with another human being in that vulnerable way that allows me to receive from them, be open, be truly me in front of a witness, if only to prove I can. I want to experience not being alone in things that I was very alone in the first time through, to work through them with someone who will stay through the journey and reassure me that it will be OK. Knowing he can't fix or change or replace any of my experiences or be the person I'd like him to be...he can still be someone who cares. I keep going back because I want to grow and because T has proven repeatedly that he is safe to attempt this growth with.
That is the heart of it, I think, and it's clear that you have a very healthy relationship with your T- not a little, because of the hard work you have done. You are growing...that is clear. (((Yaku))) I hope I am too!
Somedays-
quote:
I don't have a goal of being healed - I have a goal of feeling things and experiencing life. I want to look at my children and *feel* something because that is a normal thing to do. I want to look at a beautiful thing and *feel* something.
All i feel is bad stuff and the bad stuff I don't want to feel and I do all sorts of things to numb out. I want to feel good stuff. I want to be like *normal* people.
I want a connection with another person. I want to connect with another human being and feel the good stuff and I want to move on from newborn emotions. I want to know that I can soothe myself without doing bad stuff.
I hate going every week, I hate having to go every week. But I feel I have no choice. I have to go.
It seems to me that the things you are hoping for here, are what I personally think of as healing- I mean by that, that for me, healing doesn't comprise not having any symptoms or temptations, or issues anymore- but rather having the capacity inside of myself to deal with what comes up constructively, and, if I do make decisions that are bad, not to stop trying, but to forgive myself and keep moving. (I'm talking mainly about my huge apathy, which causes me to want to spend hours just sitting there, or sleeping, or not doing *anything.*)I do have some strange SI issues, and have certainly felt like my life wasn't worth living- so I get what you are saying about going to therapy because you have no choice. Yes- I feel that way too. That there are things in my life that need eliminating, and that therapy and mdes are the *only* way that is offered to us to do this, besides holistic diet type stuff and lots of excercise, which has never even been an option for me because before I am able to care enough to do anything like that, I have to er...care enough. I'm getting there- so will you! I love the sound of your lovely, steady T. Thanks for your response ((((SD))))
And last, but certainly not least, Liese- this is interesting question to respond to, for me, because- the thing is that I know that Cowboy T cares about me. He has said it, and I really believe him. Everything he does, his manner, his attunement, his memory attests to that. He remembers stuff that we talked about, well at least sometimes, and that is just *so* important for me to trust, for some reason. Guru could never seem to give me that- just the simple acknowledgement that he knew or remembered talking about this, or that, and that he thought it was important. So cold and clinical isn't really a good way for me to have described it- it's really more, neutral, that he stays, always- the professional. He does not let his feelings come into that space, and he's very, very good at it, even though there is laughter, and so on, that happens- and I know that it's good that it's like this, but it's stopping me up, somehow. what you said reminded me of one of many unresolved things that happened with Guru, that I put away until something dredges it up. It's that one time, I emailed him that it seemed like he wouldn't care if I died tomorrow, and that it was very painful for me to feel that way. He responded (as I remember it) that"Yes, but you need to consider the fact that you would not care if I died, either, because you would not mourn me as a man, but me for what I give to you." There was something in this, that I found incredibly guilting- and I still wonder if it was "you are supposed to be thinking about others, and you are just as uncaring as I am" in a defensive kind of way- like how can he care about me, if I don't care about him- or if he was simply trying to point some kind of mysterious reality about the relationship to me. In any case..it was never resolved because like many things like that, there simply wasn't enough time for us to actually work on what was meant by what in emails, unless we emailed more- and then more things came up- and he would say "we need to address this in session." But there was never enough time. Thank you for your thoughtful response, Liese. ((((Liese)))
anyways, don't answer if you are not comfortable, or Pm me if you want, but, I'm really curious. Thank you for the help, and your concern, xoxo.