(((AH))) does she know who your exT is by name?? Sorry can't remember! If not, his name doesn't need to come up unless you at some time decide to reveal it! You are most certainly doing the right and healthy thing by seeking out another T and it's natural you're reluctant to return to therapy - it's hard! As Draggers has said, when you feel the fear rising take very deep breaths to get through that moment!

Try to keep the appointment and spill as much as you can - look forward to hearing how you go.

((AH)) Don't ever feel bad about posting, you have just as many valid concerns as anyone else. This is the place to be when we need help from each other. I'm sorry that you are feeling such increased fear, about your up coming appt with your new T. I honestly think that your fear is how I would feel, because its a huge change, and the "UNKNOWN" can be anxiety filled. I scare myself crazy with all sorts of scenarios when its something unknown. We beat ourselves to a pulp with stress and anxiety, and after the thing I fear is over, I wonder over and over why I do that to myself. Its easier said than done, but do anything you can to keep your mind occupied before your session. I'm hoping to hear you tell us how great the session went. Let us know!

AH, I think you need a cheerleading squad to remind you of the enormously brave thing you did recently, which was to proactively terminate a T for behaving in a questionable way. You then gutted it out through the pain and misery without a T to help you through it. Frankly, you're awesome.

You definitely have the skills and the knowledge to protect yourself and I feel strongly that you can get through this first meeting and hold yourself and what you need in mind.

I think I would be utterly terrified too. The fear almost seems tangible. Do you remember that post you made when you said you weren't going to let ex-T stop you from doing something? I wonder if there is a conversation to be had with the fear at all? It sounds like it's definitely to do with what went down with ex-T. I don't want to overstep here but I wonder whether there is some older fear tied up in all this which is getting evoked and making it so unmanageable? Something to do with being made to feel so frightened as a child about revealing how your parents were? It might make sense, since ex-T ended up enacting some of the same types of patterns with you.

I don't know if that resonates at all but if it does, perhaps you can reassure the bits of you that are freaking out that this is different. People go to Ts to talk about other Ts all the time and it is really difficult and painful and often feels embarrassing but ex-T doesn't have the kind of all-encompassing power over you.

If my assumptions are way out, apologies and also, I hope this doesn't come across as minimising what you're going through.

I second Pengs' suggestion that new T needs to know up front how worried you are.

Best of luck.

AH,
I am pulling for you!
This is about you doing something good for you.

I understand how jumpy and unsettled you would feel. I have been feeling that way even in a much milder and easier situation. It makes sense that you feel afraid because of exT, but I think new T will put you first and follow your lead with what you want and what you need in this situation. It might be good to let her know how you feel right away.

I feel there is so much potential in talking to this new T who you already know and feel positive about.

Thinking of you.

(((((everyone)))))

thank you so much for the comfort, I'll be able to take it with me tomorrow and not feel so alone and afraid.

(((pengs)))) I think you're on to a good idea, it seems the only way to go is let her know how scary this is, and hopefully that will reestablish me to the idea of trusting a t. I realized since writing this that a big part of the fear is trusting again. thank you for support

(((draggers))) I really needed to hear that, about being in control. for some reason I tend to fall into the idea that all scary things are happening to me even if I'm choosing to do them. Its a childlike feeling, hard to articulate somehow. thank you for reminding me of that, it really helps

(((morgs))) unfortunately she does long story how this came to be, but she knows he was the last person I worked with, and he even knows that I was considering going to see her. and she also requested when i talked on the phone to set appointment that she get copies of all his notes which really, every session with him was recorded, maybe I should just have her get all copies of that and be her own judge, come to think of it... Thank you for all the support

(((eme))) it really is in hindsight you wonder where all the anxiety went, that is true. I do have a very ruminating mind, and if there is something for it to throw on a loop it will go over and over it until I'm in a frenzy! I'm sorry you get this kind of anxiety too, it's exhausting. I came up with a few tasks to try and soothe/distract, hoping they take the edge off. thank you for response too

(((mallard))) you are just the sweetest person, your post made me feel all warm and fuzzy! and you are actually spot on about the fear from a place in the past. When I told the first person outside family about abuse, I was punished something horrific. I've never quite been able to get over that connection of fear being so tangled up in the idea of 'telling', esp if someone is an authority figure. There have been other cases in my life where I definitely should have told someone about an abusive person in authhority position (don't want to be triggering) but I was crippled with fear and never did anything. Thank you for saying that this time is different, I feel like the child in me really needs to know it won't be the same this time. You are very insightful!!

(((quell))) I'm so sorry for all you are facing and how scary it is too. I'm really hoping for the best for you and that new T who is awesome and attuned and caring, we all deserve that. Thank you for all the kind words, I'm hoping for the best and to be able to bring back good news tomorrow. you keep hanging in there too


Big hugs and thanks to all, I will give an update of how it all goes!! thank you for reaching out despite how hard things are for each of you, it means so much I will be taking big deep breaths and holding onto all the comfort you've given

Hi AH, Just letting you know I'm thinking about you!

x

I am so sorry AH. You have every right to feel what you wrote. I don't have any words of wisdom right now but want you to know that I read what you wrote and I am thinking about you.

(((AH))) This was difficult to read as I don't think your new T did a very good job of actually listening to you and not injecting her own agenda. I certainly understand why she might want to try and understand what was going on with a colleague but NOT on your time. She was injecting her own judgement instead of respecting yours. And after all, you were there!

Trauma victims often have a very difficult time trusting their own perceptions because of the distortion of abuse, so it made her not respecting your instincts even more problematic.

I wanted to respond and reassure you as I spoke to you on my blog about the situation months before you started posting here on Psychcafe and you were NOT rushing to judgement, and never at any time did you paint your oldT as some kind of monster. You only expressed concern about handling the transference if his boundaries were not strong enough. You also stayed and tried to work through things even after your concerns because you were open to it being a perception problem on your part.

I don't think you made this up or imagined it. That doesn't mean that oldT wasn't a good guy or didn't care. It meant he is not yet a mature enough therapist to handle a client with your kind of transference. FWIW, I thought you made a good decision, and a courageous one considering how painful it was for you to leave. I really think you need to push back about this. I don't know if it would be too scary, but I would consider sending this post to your new T. I can't help but feel that she was so busy seeing this from your old Ts perspective that she forgot to see it from yours. His intentions do not matter; what mattered was his mismanagement of the boundaries. It's ok to trust yourself.

AG

((AH)) PLEASE TRUST YOURSELF, DON'T SECOND GUESS ANYTHING. YOU HAVE GUT INSTINCTS, SO KEEP USING THEM, AND STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT. REMEMBER THAT YOU WERE THERE, YOUR NEW T WAS NOT! ((AH)) YOU SAID IT ALL SO BEAUTIFULLY.

((AH))

I saw that you deleted posts and I was concerned, so I am glad to see you back.
Everything that you wrote here made sense to me. I believe you can trust your gut.

I'm not sure why new T felt like she had to start in with this kind of questioning and evaluation of events and perceptions just now. It seems to me that listening to you and drawing you out about how you feel would have been the best thing to do for you at this point in the process of possibly working with her again. So I am really sorry about what happened.

I think it is amazing that you held together so well with her, meltdown afterwards notwithstanding.

When you say that you know what you know, I believe that you are right, that you CAN trust your gut, and you know it. It is very complicated and confusing to get clear on our perceptions and how our history influences them, so that is one thing a new T can help you with, but the primary truth is the primary truth and YOUR experience is the first priority to address.

It would be hard for me to hear my deeply felt troubling experiences and bravery about separating from old T summarized with the acknowledgement that we were, even at the least,"not a good match." Wow, thanks for the validation. Seems a bit minimized to me.

Yikes, and then to have her ask about your reaction to her hugs...I don't know, it just seems too much to lay on you right now. I mean I think it is great to make these points, but couldn't the two of you have gently waded into it a little bit?

On the other hand, I'll bet that this T could hear all of these legitimate thoughts and feelings that you have after the session and not get defensive, and hopefully reassure you about how you feel now. I hope that she could and would do that for you in an instant upon hearing your thoughts and reactions. It's up to you how you feel about sharing this with her and when. I'm not sure I know what I would do.

I'm glad you posted and hope that you can get some resolution somehow.

Thinking of you.

Quell

I remember when I first left my former T, it bugged me that my new one (who knew the old one professionally) wouldn't say anything bad about the old one, beyond "she could have handled it better" which I practically had to drag out of her. In spite of how I felt about it at the time, in retrospect it is a credit to my current T that she didn't want to jump to conclusions or demonize her colleague. Now as I am moving in that direction career-wise myself, I am more and more aware of just how hard a job it is being a T, and how easy it is to mishandle a case even when you are trying your best to be ethical and responsible. Different people can react to the same thing very differently. And in a case like yours, I think your new T would be walking a fine line between trying to listen to what you were telling her, and trying to reserve judgment on the situation. It sounds like she erred too much on one side but I do think she will be able to hear you out better once she has had time to process it for herself.

AH so sorry the session was so difficult for you. I think you should definitely trust your instincts regarding the situation with your oldT and you were very brave to walk away from him. I do think your new T was less than validating but maybe she was trying to be cautious and not pass judgment on a situation she did not have first hand knowledge of. On the other hand... she KNOWS you from past experience and should know that you would not exaggerate or blame without reason. And I don't see transference as playing a part in your discomfort at being called hot or sexy or whatever inappropriate terms he used. AND I do believe you have gone out of your way to see both sides and be fair to him... more than he deserves.

I know you have always had good feelings about this new T so I would confront and challenger her about some of the statements she has made and her lack of validation of your experiences. See what she has to say and then make a judgment on how comfortable you would be to continue therapy with her.

AH, I have SO much respect and admiration for how you have handled things and you deserve to be heard and believed.

Hugs
TN

I'm really glad you came back and posted. I was worried when I saw you had deleted.

quote:

I don't expect a definite statement. But I WAS THERE. and I need to be heard without everything being rephrased in terms of 'well, he may have just meant this by it instead?'

I really hope you are able to share this with your new T. because this is what you need right now.

quote:

I know what I know.

and this I LOVE. Hang on to that. You CAN trust your gut and intuition.

hi AH,

that sounded like a really tough first session, but you did so well! there was so much pressure for this first session and it sounds like you both tried to cover so much, too much maybe, and your T got lost under that pressure too... i think it would have been more helpful if she listened more and talked less. i also worry that she might not be able to be fully unbiased seeing that she knows him and worked with him, or maybe in time she will be able to. is she likely to ever work with him in again in the future?

i know that i had a really strong reaction to what i've read about your exT, my own stuff got mixed up in it too and i probably dont see things very clearly. the reaction i have is that i see your T in a much more negative light, i cant see any positives. and it seems like now i do the same with this new T. i just dont want you to get hurt again and i am disappointed this session didnt go so well. its only a first session though, i hope in the next few sessions you'll get a chance to tell her how this affected you and what you need from her.



puppet

p.s. forgive me for adding another negative comment, but i found her 'friends type of person' comment really off... whether she meant it as a compliment... its just the wrong thing to say as its both confusing and painful for a client.

Good Morning AH, Checking in to see how you are doing.

(((((((everyone))))))) I am really overwhelmed with thankfulness for how much love and support you've shown me, and I can't express how much difference it really makes to have that understanding now.

I'm sorry I freaked out and erased a lot of my posts btw It really comes from a place of me feeling like 'well everything I thought/said was wrong anyway, so no one else should see it.'

One thing I've learned about myself is that the #1 quickest way to send me into a tailspin of distress is when I begin to question my reality. That was the primary tool used in prolonging my abuse, and anything remotely close to feeling like that again and I go to a very bad place.

I've had a whole range of almost every emotion since yesterday, and ended up taking a very long, exhausted nap for several hours. (which given my insomnia, I can tell I've reached the end of my ability to cope when I finally shut down in sleep) I'm slightly less foggy now, which is helpful.



(((RM))) thank you so much for checking on me this morning, and being there to let me know you were listening. It really made an impact on me, and I am very thankful for it

(((AG))) That was beautifully written, and when you said trauma victims have a hard time trusting their perceptions, it really made sense to me and helped me understand why I react the way I do. And I really appreciate your reassurance about having spoken with you about this originally because it reminded me that I'd taken so much time to try to sort out the situation before I left. All of your validation and kind words are so meaningful, thank you for everything, all the help you've given me through this. I do agree about pushing back, I think I should make another attempt to be heard with her

(((eme))) Thank you eme for helping me see it's ok to trust my instincts again, I really think we all have them for a reason, and it's a shame to have them shoved aside as being wrong. Truthfully I think those who experienced trauma have pretty sharp instincts for avoiding harm, the problem comes in not questioning them once they arise

(((quell))) I really like how you worded that about how our history influences how we see things, but the primary truth is the same. Thank you for all your thoughtful support. I did feel, as far as her asking about her own hugs, that possibly some of her response was more about her insecurity or fear of how I see her interactions with me, than defending him? If that makes sense... It was almost as though there was too much that got thrown on the plate for the first session, and it probably overwhelmed both of us

(((BLT))) I totally respect where you're coming from with that, and it makes sense they wouldn't want to jump to conclusions. I guess I really just needed to convey to her more that I didn't want to demonize him, I just wanted my experience to be heard. I have been angry with him, but when it comes down to it I don't want to hurt him, I just wanted her to fully hear me without rushing to reconstruct my words. I really hope she will process it like you said and be more open to listening now

(((TN))) Thank you so much for all you wrote, it really sums up how I felt and gives me a lot of comfort that I'm not being too sensitive or dramatic about how I felt. It truly means a lot to hear that you respect and admire and believe me, more than I can say. I think you're right that I really should give her a chance to know how much I just needed her to hear me, and see how she responds. What is there to lose at this point?

(((lucy))) I'm really grateful for you hearing me too and understanding, and affirming that I should trust myself. That was my biggest hurt from the experience, feeling like I'd lost my own trust of my mind, so I am so thankful for the assurance

(((puppet))) You do have a point that likely too much got covered for the first session, I can see that. I think there was a snowball effect, once I told her just my initial need to discuss exT and she rushed to defend him, I felt building pressure to explain there was a pattern of behavior, and with each defense on her part, I kept adding. I don't think she will work with him again, but I'm just hopeful about that tbh. I so appreciate your protectiveness and not wanting me to get hurt, I really hope so too. And to be honest, the friends comment did sting a little from her. In one way I was glad to hear her say that, but it did just bring glaring attention to those painful boundaries. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that confusing...


I will be writing more, I just wanted to let all of you know how much your support meant to me. I'm actually not articulating half as well as I'd like to about the impact it had, but know that I have a heartfelt gratitude for each of you

Hi AH,

Sorry I'm late to this. It's taken me a while to pull my thoughts together.

It sounds like new T fell into the trap of trying to figure things out out, rather than just to hear you and in doing so she skipped the all-important step of validating your feelings, or at least she may have thought she was doing so but didn't take into account the depth of your hurt and how your world has been shaken by this experience. To be fair to her, she only had an hour to try and absorb a very complex and emotionally charged scenario but, like AG I think she erred by trying to analyse on your time rather than taking some time to reflect on her own. I can also see that it would have been a very difficult thing for you to experience after what happened with ex-T.

Possibly also, she figured your existing relationship meant she could jump straight into asking questions, rather than listening. As such, she didn't treat it purely as a first session where really all you do is get acquainted and hear the client's story. It's possible also I guess that she didn't really pin down where you are in recovery from this. I kind of have this image of a dam bursting - you don't really spend a lot of time figuring our why the dam is bursting until you've contained and stemmed the flow of water and tried to prevent any more damage. In my opinion, you are really very insightful and psychologically minded and if new T has done CBT with you, she's probably used to you being able to think and process complex things. I can see how it could be very easy to fall back into that kind of relationship again without stopping to think "Hang on, where is the client right now?"

I am trying hard not to do what happened in your session and analyse without validating what happened. So none of the above is intended to take away from the fact that you left questioning your own reality which is a really crappy place to be in as a trauma survivor.

At the end of it all, she said that no matter what, the fact that I was so hurt by how things went is what's really important to her. And that's what we'll focus on, and no matter what I feel or say is safe to express. Again, that's a wonderful thing, but... I feel like I can't trust my perception now. And I'm not altogether sure I can trust her to put her personal feelings of exT aside either. I've trusted her so deeply, thought so much of her all the time we worked together, and now it certainly feels a little shaky and unstable.

I am glad she said that but I think I understand where you're coming from since what she is saying and what she is communicating to you don't seem to be entirely on the same page. She may not be aware that you are interpreting her actions this way - and I think if you decide you can face going back then this definitely needs to be addressed if you are going to be able to work together effectively.

But she 'doesn't believe in absolute truth' and thinks that the 'waters probably got muddy with so many dynamics playing out between exT and I.' And there's any number of ways to interpret any given action. She asked if I would have felt just as uncomfortable if a female T made a statement about me being sexy, or just discomfort from working with a male? I felt really defensive about that statement. At first I said no, but since thinking about it, I can't see why any T would use that terminology with a client? She said it was a poor choice of words for sure, but maybe he didn't mean for it to come across as a harmful statement.

I have lots of issues with this paragraph. So many it's hard for me to pull them all apart!

For me, whether or not your T meant any of what went down between you is not the point. Certainly it is more palatable to believe that your T did not meant to hurt you but in the therapy world "Didn't mean to" doesn't really cut it. it is well known that the therapeutic relationship can be damaging if a T isn't in touch with their own stuff and this is why Ts are required to have supervisors and are expected to really examine the links between the personal and professional self so they can catch themselves when they get caught up in transference.

When I recounted a bad therapy experience to my current T, I explained that I'd experienced very negative transference towards a former T who I only stayed with for a few sessions and I said rather sheepishly that I'd reacted poorly to him and when he'd been what I felt was inappropriately challenging, he was unable to contain his own emotions when I got angry with him and challenged him back and I felt bad about snapping at him. She simply said "Yes, but he held the power and the responsibility in that relationship. It was his job to be in touch with his own counter-transference."

The gender thing irks me because the dynamics between two women are different than between a man and a woman and that's before sexuality even enters the arena. Men are physically stronger and belong to a privileged group that has afforded them authority and dominance for centuries (sorry, I don't mean to politicise this post) but put in that perspective a male T holding on to a female client in a hug raises a lot of questions around the power balance and that's why physical contact needs to be really well considered.

Wow, I've rambled on for a long time. I do not think you need to question your perceptions. I think you were bang on the money about the relationship being not right between you and ex-T and you were not overreacting.

The idea that he was some super awesome person, and I'm so unstable that I not only interpreted everything he did as wrong, but proceeded to vilify him on top of it, is more than I can handle. That idea is absolutely horrifying and makes me question everything about myself, everything I've ever said or done.

This feels absolutely enormous and if you do see new T again, it may be worth talking about this because it will make new T aware of how easy it could be to re-traumatise you because of how closely the situation with ex-T mirrors your experiences of abuse. I can see how feeling as if you have to question your own reality is massively triggering and new T needs to know that any 'making meaning' out of what happened with ex-T needs to be done with extreme care.

I'm sorry it was a tough one

x