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Session went from 8:25 to 10:00 pm last night. We talked about most of the dissociation stuff (what I could remember without actually reading my journal, which he hadn't seen yet, since I just sent it the night before). Midway through (which should have been the end, probably, but I refuse to look at the clock, because I am trusting him to manage the time however he likes), crying came up again. I let him know that it would probably never happen while sitting in the "standard" configuration. He asked if I wanted to move or if processing hard stuff so late would be too much. I let him know that processing late was never a good idea, but also that when I leave feeling un-connected, it is devastating to me afterward. So, after him trying three different wordings on making me feel OK about moving to the floor, he instead moved over to the chair that is near where he sits when he moves to the floor and said if/when I wanted to move down, he would do so as well...so I took a minute and then did. I was in the middle of the couch, instead of the far side that is closest to his office chair, probably to hide behind the evil table, because my dear notebook that I sketch/write in was lost and couldn't "protect" me from the stress. So, when he sat down, he was actually only like three feet away. Eeker I felt so connected and yet embarrassed by feeling so little while knowing intellectually I am an adult that I couldn't even look at where he was to take in how close we were. Frowner

We processed more dissociation stuff, some trauma sensations that accompanied them, and then I got too overwhelmed. He offered to pray about those feelings, but then made the mistake of mid-way through, praying about how it would be when I go, when I am in my car, when I am at home. I know he was trying to help here...he was paving my road home, but I felt pushed away as usual. I think I will actually just have ask him to stop doing that right at the end, because it is causing panic about anything God-related meaning, "Go away!" Then, he asked if he could move back to the chair and did. Then he asked if I was feeling stuck and I nodded (my head still in my arms), and he asked if I was sad, and I said, "Confused...about whether I'm supposed to leave now." He said it would be good, time-wise, if we began to wrap up.

I know he meant that just begin that process, but the combination of his prayer, his asking to move and his calling me "stuck," made me feel I had to run away before he pushed me out. I took a minute being stuck and then said, "OK, yeah, let's finish it." He asked if we should pray, and I said, brattishly, "You already did that!" and he gently said, "OK." I stood up, walked threw my tea (paper) cup in his trash unceremoniously, said, "OK, later!" and walked out, cursed in his lobby, had to stop in a stairwell to start crying, punched the railing a few times, texted him just "Sorry" for the way I left and then was stuck in my car dissociated for about 30 minutes before I drove home and just went to bed.

I woke up at 2:30 with a horrific nightmare that T took advantage of me. In the dream, I was amnesiac for it, but realized what had happened afterward and he was saying awful things that indicated he wished that it had happened in a way that benefited him more, then terminated me. Frowner I was awake for three hours. H tried to snuggle me, but I had to push him away. I was freaking out so bad, I actually texted him in the middle of the night for the first time ever (I'm pretty sure he said he turns his ringer off at night). I told him specifically that I was already going to God and not to suggest it, as I would feel shoved away. I suddenly got the idea (and shared) that we need to spend a whole session, ASAP, just focused on practicing connecting, being connected and disconnecting SAFELY and attending the emotions/sensations/perceived vs real boundaries together. I don't know HOW we will do it, but I feel very strongly it needs to be done for some reason.

I fell back asleep at around 5:30 for an hour and had two "corrective" therapy dreams. In the first one, I was in a class that T was teaching (he looked younger). We were all in our PJs. He started talking about abuse in childhood and the inner child and SI in some sort of interrelated way that I don't remember exactly. I started dissociating in the dream, barely able to stay conscious and when I looked at my feet, they were small, like a child's. Then, after class, I told him about the previous dream that had woken me up. In the dream, he took my hand, but just fingertips-to-fingertips (like at the first knuckle) and squeezed gently and ran his thumb across my hand and started reassuring me that nothing like that would ever happen. I started to cry and squeezed his hand tightly as he explained all the protections that were in place to keep me safe. Then, still in the dream, I told T that I felt even though I knew he would never hurt me like that, that someone inside was scared as we were getting closer and I needed to hear him say it directly, that he would be safe with me and he would never hurt me in that way. So, he said, "Yaku, I promise you that you are safe with me and I will never, ever hurt you in that way." Ugh, my transference feelings for him are so strong even when he is dream T and not real T.

So, then I had another dream where I went back to his office (which is always different in every single dream) to schedule something and I ended up in a teacher's lounge sort of room with him and the T he tried to refer me to before I met with him. He let me know he had to leave the state for some sort of education/licensing thing for a week and was sorry not to warn me ahead of time. I said, "Well, can we still text?" The other T was like, "Oh, you guys text? Does that help?" And I admitted, "Yeah, when he replies." And she got all motherly and said, "[T's first name], you don't reply to her consistently?" And they talked about that a bit. Then she said, "Well, you need to give her something to hold onto while you're gone!" She came over and tried to give me a Christmas ornament that was T's in the dream. When she approached me and tried to hand it to me, I felt like I was shrinking, like in the other dream, and I couldn't take it from her. Every time I tried to reach out, I would feel like I was suffocating. I cried out, "It's TOO HARD!" So, she backed off and said, "Oh, do you have issues with 'Mom'?" and I explained my Mom transference a bit. So then, T came over and offered me a giant stuffed reindeer (why is it Christmas in my dream?) with lights all over it. I told him there was no way I could take that home as H would definitely notice it and tease me for having something from T. So, then I talked to the female T about how I get mom-transference with my H and while I was talking to her, T slipped a pen into my hand. It had a verse from Psalms printed on it, but I don't remember which. I just received it naturally, as if it was nothing at all to take it. Then I woke up, feeling so close to T and yet so disconnected and really scared I'm going to lose the opportunity to process all this stuff inside if I don't see him in person.

So, I texted T this morning and put myself out there, asking if he had any appointments I could come to today, that I understood if not or if he didn't think it was a good idea and that I was trying to remember it was OK to ask and even if the answer was no, it didn't necessarily mean I was "too much." He affirmed my statement, and after a few texts, is giving me either 8:00 pm or 9:00 pm tonight. He said that boundary-wise, it means we will plan not to do Friday's phone session, but it will still be an option if I am not handling the week well. Knowing he had boundaries felt really safe/positive and really painful at the same time (reminder: I am T, not dad...I have a lot of people to take care of and can only give so much).

Now I am freaking about getting that need met. I have SO much I want to talk to him about (all this stuff I have written here), but I'm afraid I will blank and not be able to. Also, I'm not sure how to do the whole connecting/disconnecting mindfulness exercise I got inspired about. I thought of just doing different positions throughout the room and trying very hard to describe what they felt like, but it doesn't seem enough. I thought of also having him offer me items (like in my dream) from different positions and describe what it was like to try to receive them. I do know I need to tell him about how I don't feel I can even look at him when he is close by, like I am afraid to perceive his disgust at this full-grown woman who is acting like such a child. I am open to any ideas.

Anyway, sorry this is such a drive-by posting and probably way too much info. I am going to meet H at his work for lunch with Boo, since I will be taking time away from him tonight. Anyway, ((((hugs)))) and thanks for any support and ideas that come my way.
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Yaku,

Your session sounds like it was really intense.

I have been working with T on the connecting safely and receiving for the past few sessions. The way that we've been doing it is by having something between us (because I often feel as if there is a barrier between us) and then having her reach out to hand me something and then I reach out to take it and feel myself bringing it back into my space. Then I hand it back to her and repeat. We've also played with having the barrier there and then moving it. Not sure if any of that would work for you or not, but it's an idea.

I hope your session tonight goes well. Good job asking for what you need!
Hi Yaku... I can feel your fear and confusion in your post of your session last night. It seems as if you are having really high separation anxiety. I have this too, and have always had it with oldT. OldT and I spent a lot of time working on the separating and it was getting better until those last 6 weeks of my therapy with him (where he was always angry and hostile) and now I've regressed very far back again with this and have been struggling with my current T about how to best end our session. We just spoke about it again.

It seems to me this would be a good place to focus some time. It appears that it angers you when he decides to pray at the end of the session. I'm not very religious so it's hard for me to advise here except to say that I can understand that you feel your T is pulling away from you and sort of foisting you onto God to take care of so he can be done with you until the next time. I am NOT saying this is what he is doing but it IS how you feel about it.

I also think you are badly dissociating at separation time because it feels SO dangerous for you to leave your T. This could be for a number of reasons such as it feels that the connection is broken, that he does not think of you once you are gone from his sight, that your own life feels too dangerous for you to participate in, that you don't feel safe for whatever reason when your T is not around...

I think that is what needs to be looked at. WHY you dissociate when the session is over or when it gets near to being over. Maybe you are still too activated and you need to be grounded earlier in the session time so that you can leave and at least get yourself home before texting your T. This would be the time for your T to bring you down slowly by introducing less threatening subjects... sort of making small talk about Boo, or weekend plans, or what you have been reading etc. Where you can still be connected but the subject matter is not attachment or trauma related. Then he can reassure you that he will be there waiting for you the next time you have an appointment. Does he shake hands? Maybe you can talk about incorporating a handshake at the end and definite eye contact so you can see that he cares about you and you can take that with you into the world. I think it's important that you can work on internalizing him so that you have that as a refuge when you need it and don't have to rely so much on a text response. I know that my T is diligently working on doing this with me. I am hitting some obvious bumps in this work because OldT is there sitting in my head (and heart) and it's been really hard to budge him from that space. Just this week my T told me that he is there for me. He will be there waiting for me at my next appointment and I should take him with me, in an internal sense, until I'm back there again.

Maybe you can save the prayer for the beginning of the session as a way to open your session for the night so that you don't feel so abandoned at the end of the session and more connected with T instead of prayer and God.

Good luck Yaku. And it's okay to ask for an extra session. I have done that with oldT on five or six occassions over the 3 years I saw him. They were usually very good, healing sessions. The key is to pick only 1 or 2 things and really focus on them.

Let us know how things turn out.

TN
STRM - I think the receiving things in my dream probably came from you talking about it on here. Wink I kind of wish T would suggest it, though, because I feel embarrassed bringing things up. I don't know why I feel that way, considering everything I have ever asked (like moving to the floor and being side-by-side), T has been happy to oblige.

TN - T actually does try to get me on topics like Boo, church, etc. and lighten things, but I am resistant. My mind reacts the same way to it as him praying. And then it starts throwing out all sorts of junk to process all of a sudden. And, I get overwhelmed and then T kindly asks me what is going on in my mind. And we get onto processing something. I can't help it. I wish I knew another way to unlock it other than the panic that I'm about to have to leave. Also, we do pray at the beginning of the session and that is fine. I think I just need to ask him to not make it our parting ritual. Like to do it 10-15 minutes before he wants to wrap up and then go back to processing a bit. I would love a handshake or connecting sort of goodbye. At the same time, I cannot even look him in the eye, pretty much ever. Frowner I think it would take him saying my name (or the "kiddo" nickname) to startle me into paying attention and then specifically asking me to look at him. I feel like such a burden even to be seen and if I can't see him, my brain thinks he can't see me either. Frowner

I am so tired right now and I can't tell if it's from only getting three hours sleep or if it is from dissociating (because I feel like I'm floating away) or coming down with a cold...or maybe all of the above. Feel like I'm going to pass out trying to watch Boo.
Do you feel selfish/needy when you are getting your needs met? It seems like you associate some negativity to having your needs met.

I think its great that you don't worry about the clock when you are in therapy and trust him to keep track of the time. I would say that is a way of allowing yourself to get your needs met and not deprive yourself of time with him by sticking to a strict schedule.

I am proud of you for texting him that you are already reaching out to God and for him not to suggest that because it will just push you away. Good for you for saying that. I think you are making progress!
quote:
At the same time, I cannot even look him in the eye, pretty much ever. I think it would take him saying my name (or the "kiddo" nickname) to startle me into paying attention and then specifically asking me to look at him. I feel like such a burden even to be seen and if I can't see him, my brain thinks he can't see me either.


Yaku, I would gently suggest (and I know it's difficult) that you start to hold some eye contact with your T. You are missing so much of him that would really help you. You don't get a chance to take in all his very important expressions and non-verbals. My T is a real stickler for eye contact does not let me look away very much. If I do he says to me "ohhh no... you need to talk to me not look at the floor" or whatever I'm gazing at and he moves his hand so that I follow it back to his face. He says it's important that I see his reaction to what I'm telling him so that I don't misinterpret or imagine the worst (which I could easily do). In the beginning this was really hard to me because I didn't want to see his face because he was not oldT and he looks so different and it was just shocking to me that I was talking in session with someone who was not "my" T. But it really helped me a lot when I started to meet his eyes because it was then that I started to be able to hold his expression ... maybe for a few minutes or for an hour after therapy. Sometimes a little longer. He wants me to internalize him. Unfortunatley, oldT is blocking the way right now.

About seeing you... one time I was really upset in a session with oldT and wanted to hide. I asked him for a blanket and he asked me what for and I said to put over my head so he can't see me. He paused a moment and kindly said "but I would still be able to see you". The hardest times are those times when you really want to be invisible but you need to stay with them. We got used to doing this as kids. If we could make ourselves invisible we could avoid attracting our parents' attention and hopefully stay safe.

I hope your session goes well. I'll be thinking of you.

TN
Waiting to go in. Scared. Can hear T's muffled voice. Not using my iPod to hide like usual. Feel so much expectation to perform, because I asked for an unscheduled session. Made notes on what I want to say/do, but nearly certain I'm going to blank, be unable to even share, let down my good T and myself. Frowner He gives so much and I can't produce. The only thing I manage is to take in a bit of his gentle care before panicking about losing it again. I feel ready to cry...
It was nearly a disaster. Just got home.

I went in with all the stuff I wanted to talk about. T prayed, got out my text message, asked me a few questions about what it meant, and then went in on his own agenda. He knew I wasn't going to like it, but he thought maybe I was pushing the connection too quickly and he shouldn't have sat on the floor with me. I completely shut down and it was all I could do to just stay in the room with some really nasty feelings and thoughts. It took him probably an hour to get me to be able to even share anything with him at all. Once I did, I was able to tell him about how it felt my needs were invalidated, bad and wrong. I told him about how last session made me feel pushed away and he said he already perceived that from how I left. I expressed how painful it was to have this distance and to have it feel so permanent, because he broke the connection too badly for me to risk asking for him to meet my needs again. He did a lot of God talk that I tuned out. I let him know that doing that made me feel like it was not OK to have my needs met by people. At one point, when I complained about how painful the distance was, he said, "Yaku, look at me, please! Look at where I am." with so much feeling. I couldn't at first and when I did, he was in his usual T spot. I think he wanted me to "see" his closeness and care, but I was too hurt to see it. He offered to pray again and I let him know the confusion over ending prayers vs other prayers and how he needed to delineate them. I tried so hard, but I couldn't give words for how I felt. I told him I felt ridiculous, because it was life or death. He connected those feelings to my mother and her treatment of me. He said several very smart things about relationships and connections being about getting closer and further away and closer again. He said that I need to learn to tolerate the feelings that accompany being further away. When I started to shut down, he said something about true intimacy being impossible without that openness. He countered my ideas about needing, said that it doesn't necessarily invalidate my needs...God validates them. Yes, too much shifting everything to God in this session and I told him so at one point.

I was so distressed by the end that T felt called to apologize over and over. I can't remember how he worded it, but he said he felt like he did something really wrong and he didn't know how he could fix it. I couldn't promise him that I would be safe at first, so after he prayed, he kept going on about how hard it was to see me so distressed, how bad and responsible he felt, how it was NOT my fault (I said it was). He asked me to do him a favor, to look at him and say, "It's not my fault," but I couldn't. I looked at him, but couldn't keep my eyes there. He really looked concerned and hurt for me. I couldn't say what he wanted me to say though. He suggested a few things to do during my usual car wait, once I let him know that I would probably be safe to go wait out there. T texted ME this time to say he was praying for God to comfort me. I replied that I would try to keep our battered connection on life support and stay in touch until I was safe, then let him know when I got home alright.

I'm so tired and conflicted. On the one hand, T really effed up here. It was WAY too soon for this sort of withdrawl, I think. I definitely wasn't secure enough yet. On the other hand, he obviously cares so much that it is hurting me. I wanted to run away, quit, hurt myself and worse, but I just sat with him in those feelings, even when I was too scared and angry to talk about them. He stayed with me from 8:20 to 10:40. He got me to a point where I could open up, even if only a little, about my distress. I am in so much pain, but also understanding the depth of my T's care. I feel so sorry that he is probably worried and hurting for me right now. He messed up, and badly, but rather than putting it on me, he owned it. He did not surrender his idea that we're moving too fast and let me run over him with my toddler-like demands for closeness. He did not say he would never be close with me again in that way. He didn't get fed up with my shutting down, but gently pointed out that he was trying to help within my pain. So, it was good, I guess? But...I feel so wrecked. I can't decide whether I want to journal about all of this to him...to put myself out there after being hurt so badly. I kind of just want to crawl in a hole and die right now. But, I also don't want to give up on the first truly trusting connection I have experienced in my lifetime either. Ugh, I'm sorry.
((((((((Yaku))))))))

I'm so sorry this is so painfully hard right now. I really agree with Monte in that 'something else' needs to happen to be able to have a close relationship with God. In my view, to have the knowledge that God validates needs, you must first realize that it's possible to get those needs met at all. I'm in the same struggle. This is just my opinion, but I think we have to learn how to have healthy relationships here in this world before we can have a full, healing relationship with God. If I can't believe someone in this life can truly love me for who I am, how can I believe that God will, too?

Your T really does care about you, and I'm so glad he is willing to let you know how much he cares. Will you have a phone session on Friday?
Pretty sure we're not doing Friday, as that was the arrangement. I couldn't afford it even if he was willing. It would take him offering it to get me to do it at this point. I am not up to asking for a need to be met again right now. It's enough that I am staying in touch with him as usual, being honest about how all this makes me feel, which feels very dangerous. Projections about T's hate and disgust for me and my needs are in high gear. It hurts a lot. I could barely make myself get up today. The Stanford depression study people should be happy, though. I'm coming in all effed up today. I keep thinking that me not shutting him down, staying in contact, means he will be saying, "See, you don't need 'closeness' to connect?" and refuse to ever offer it again. But, is it really so bad to tell someone you need something, just because it makes a painful experience manageable at the moment? Is it really wrong to want so badly something that makes you feel safe to connect deeply with another human being? Why couldn't we have practiced feeling that security and then backing away in a safe manner? Why do we have to take the security away instead? As I told T last night, it feels like he is taking away the one "good" thing I have in that room and now I will be stranded in the $#!+ that is leftover, all this pain and no comfort. T has been "so glad" that I have accepted being "Kiddo," but then he hurts her so badly that she doesn't trust him anymore. So, yeah, tantrum here, but he earned it. And yet, I still cant help that as I am telling him these sorts of things, I still care very deeply that it may be worrying, hurting or upsetting him somehow. And I am pissed that I care about him so much in this ridiculous one-sided relationship that is echoing all these horrible messages from my past right now.
quote:
Originally posted by yakusoku:
Been texting with T today...really trying to stay connected, despite feeling like it is broken. Still hurts, but I feel like I can keep going to therapy if I'm willing to work. His helplessness came through in some of his responses. I can tell he cares...but it hurts that he cares and can't help at the same time.


Does he get frustrated when he feels like he can't help you? I've been getting that with T1 lately. It sucks when they care, but can't help.
I have written my journal entry on reflections of the two session and the stuff I wanted to say, but couldn't, because T's decision to not sit with me anymore derailed my sense of safety and ownership in the session. And I am sitting here, unable to send it, because trusting him with those feelings that I am almost certain will result in no change will HURT to much. And on comes the unsafe stuff. I HATE THIS. I want to go back in time and never go to therapy or at least never ask for last night's session. I'm tired of being hurt and tired of people thinking they need to take away things that make me feel OK, because it is too stressful or inconvenient to work with me. I am being a brat, but I don't care.
DF - I see where you're coming from, but I don't know if it will help. Maybe it will get better after time, but T actually had to keep me there 10-15 minutes after we finished, because I couldn't promise him I knew I was safe...so it feels like that choice was more dangerous than maybe listening to my ideas on the subject. I guess I have to trust him. I really have no choice.

Monte - Yeah, I write way too much. But it doesn't seem to matter. I can give him a brief outline and it seems to have the same affect. He actually keeps encouraging me to do it exactly the way I have been for some reason. It's like he's trying to die an early death from exhaustion.
DF - It's not that your wrong. The fact is, I was trying to find a way to separate cleanly and identify what the "real" boundaries are, but he got caught up in what he wanted to say and did not even bother to invite me to speak (first time ever), so I feel like I was trying to take responsibility for safety and he took away my chance and then did it in a way that made me feel I wasn't even part of the equation. I'll tell you the same thing I tell T when he says these things, "It's not that I think you're wrong, but that doesn't mean I have to like it." Razzer

I just feel like sitting with him in that way was the first time I've had good feelings in that room, even if it made leaving harder. And now it is all just $#!+ feelings. I'm just being a brat, I'm sure.
DF - Thanks for understanding. I'm less concerned with him shifting boundaries than finding a way to feel connected (whatever the configuration is) and then disconnect safely. He did, at least, affirm that he saw my asking for that as a VERY positive thing, of me trying to be responsible for taking care of myself...and then proceeded to try to take care of the situation in a way that excluded me. I think he must have had an off-day, attunement wise. I also wonder if he's got some counter-transference stuff going on, mucking things up a bit. He doesn't have any daughters, but he does have adult sons, some of which are probably close to my age. Also, I was drawing some unusual intensity out of him Tuesday night and in some of his texts yesterday. He seemed to be actually struggling, rather than his usual, put-together, "God will take care of it," self. Instead I got messages like, "So much I'd like to say, but words keep failing me right now..." and expressing his helplessness to make things better for me. Actually, I think it was probably more because my telling him how that stuff sometimes makes me feel took away his ability to go there with me. When he expressed the helpless stuff, I shot back with his typical stuff of embracing his inability to help me as a prerequisite for God being in control and carrying us. Part of me was hoping he would see how it feels to be told to embrace those lost feelings when you're in them, but mostly I just wanted T to go back to being himself (as annoying as it sometimes is, I didn't like the feeling that I "broke" him the night before)...Ha, I really AM a brat, making things so difficult for my poor T.

I also think, just maybe, that sort of caretaking (seeming better) stuff is about fearing he'll conclude he can't help me and ship me off elsewhere. And, here I thought I was just a kind, caring person. Wink

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