I hope you may find my experience encouraging, because what you are talking about sounds so similar to what I felt.

My T and I have quite a lot of touch during our sessions. We hold hands pretty much the entire session, every session. I see him in two different locations, one has a couch, the other does not. When we are at the office with a couch, around 10 minutes before the end of a session, he will come over and sit next to me while I put my head on his shoulder. At the end of every session, we hug, good close strong hug, he tells me he loves me and I tell him I love him. There is no kissing

We can do this because it is so important to both of us that we keep the relationship we have and do not change it into a relationship that would ultimately not work. You can imagine how absolutely terrified I was that if I ever told him that I become aroused during our sessions, that some or all of that would cease!

One day I realized that this arousal was the one and only feeling I was knowingly holding back from him. So, I mustered up some courage, and some tears (not on purpose) and told him. His response really surprised me, he was so happy that I was able to become sexually aroused! He admitted that he is attracted to me also and this is a good healthy thing. We talked about how "if everything were different" such as age and the fact that we are therapist / client - then who knows, perhaps we could have had a different type of relationship, but as it is, we have the relationship we have and it's an amazing, close, intimate relationship.

Honestly, I'm nervous saying all of that out loud, but I do hope that it gives you a little courage Boundaries are tough, and vary from relationship to relationship, I hope you are able to find the right balance for your situation with your T.

It probably helps that my T is more then twice my age

(He could be my grandpa!)

I dont know if it crosses boundaries or not but I can say that I am jealous of yall too. My T always just asks if I trust him and when I say I do he says for me to trust him to keep the boundaries and he will give me what he thinks I need or in some cases keep from me what I really want cause its not what I need. So far that is what he is doing and even though it makes me jealous of the people who do get the hugs I feel safe and know that when I do get the hug I want it will be at the right time. And I know it will happen someday, just not as soon as I would like it. And my P said that it doesnt necessarily have to do with whether I am still sexually attracted to him or not. There are a lot of other things that impact his decision on whether or not to give me a hug. I could still be sexually attracted to him when I finally get the hug,or it might be years after I work through this transference (if that ever really happens) and not be sexually attracted to him and he will still think I shouldnt get a hug yet. I just hope its sooner than later. And honestly, I hope that when I get the hug I am still sexually attracted to him but thats all probably for the wrong reasons

quote:

Originally posted by echo:
Amazon, I have to admit that I am a little surprised he offered you a hug after verifying that you are sexually attracted to him. Not that I think it is bad that he did that. It's interesting...

Other than that, all I have to offer is that I am insanely jealous of both of you (Amazon and Z).

echo, I think the logic behind it could be that the child me with the child's feelings can be "loved" and hugged. However the adult "me" also has her feelings and would like to be accepted as much as the child. So if he hugged a child, but refused to hug the grown-up, would that be a message to me that he prefers the child and I can only get close when I'm a child. And the feelings of an adult get in the way of him accepting me, he rather wants me to stay with the child's feelings... that kind of thing. I think the adult me would surely want to punish the child for stealing all his "love" (if I can use that word).
So I think we'll just have a chat about it next time.

Interesting Amazon
For me, not having any touch in sessions used to take me back to feeling a child again and that was really hard. I would feel desperately sad and unhappy but was too wary to express how I felt in case my T just sat there and looked at me - it didn't matter what helpful things she said or the empathy that she portrayed, it was that distance (however small) and the looking at me that triggered horrible memories of my emotions being ignored and silence being safer.
Now at these times I will hold her hand or have a hug, when we're tackling difficult issues and it gives me confidence to know AND feel that someone is there with me. And I trust her and her boundaries and it all seems to help.
I guess it's easier for me because I don't have some of the transference issues that you guys do, but I know that if I had no touch again I would find it very hard, would probably hear the old voice come warning me not to trust or tell because at the end of the day I am better on my own.... and that's never a good place for me.
starfish

Yes, it's interesting, for the past two weeks I also experienced some mysterious anxiety feelings, that I could not figure out where the hell was it coming from. Could it possibly be, that the adult me was really getting mad at the child that took over the therapy completely. And there was not much room left for the older me. I wonder if I will have that weird feeling this week. I felt really anxious and depressed for a while. I think it's good that he hugged me and made me talk about different stuff, because I think I could be really pissed off with the child me.
Yes I will definitely aks him some questions. I need to know where the touch boundary is and that I am safe with him. This is also transference thing, me being afraid of physical closeness, not knowing if it's good or not.
I don't suppose he would let things get our of control

Wow, new here, and I cant believe how much transference and touching issues there are in counseling. I always thought something like hugging a patient of the opposite sex would be considered unethical. Even holding hands for an extended period of time. I dont know if it makes a difference what type of counselor one sees and their responsibilities of this nature.
I see a psychologist and he never hugs me or has alluded to doing so. He sometimes taps my foot, but that usually is to tell me times up.
Has helped me get up off the couch with a helping hand when I've been sick, has helped me with my coat on, a handshake if we aren't going to see each other for a while. The closest thing to touch was last week when he took my hand/wrist and rubbed it, encouraging me to not cut myself. His touch made an impression and Im wondering if more touch would help me. Unfortunately, I do have sexual fantasies about him when I am alone, but never when in session
with him. I believe he thinks I'm attractive, but he rarely mentions it, and has never approached me in any way. Cant they get sued for touching their clients, why would they take the chance. Of course, I would love it if he did hug me.

Hi Lizzygirl,
This can be a seriously confusing topic. There is a really broad range of belief and practices in terms of physical contact among therapists. The only thing that is actually completely prohibited by most states and/or professional associations is an actual sexual relationship with a present client. This is considered by almost all therapists to be an ethical breach because it has been proven by a number of studies that a sexual relationship in a vast majority of cases, turns out to be seriously harmful for the client. But any physical touch which is NOT sexual in nature is not automatically wrong in and of itself, and as I said there is a broad spectrum in how different Ts handle it. In many cases, it is a combination of the Ts personal working philosophy coupled with the needs of the patient that determine how much, if any, and of what types, touch is used in therapy.

I have had two therapists and my first, a woman, did allow hugs, when I asked for them. Which when things were really difficult I did ask but it wasn't a regular thing. I did a lot of recovery and processing of traumatic memories with her and there were times where she held my hand in an attempt to "anchor" me as I could strongly dissassociate while doing the work.

My present T has a no hugs across the board policy. I know because I asked. However, he does shake my hand at the end of every session and also at the beginning of our couples sessions. (I have no idea why I do this but I don't shake his hand at the beginning of my individual sessions, but my husband always does at couples sessions, so I think my T also shakes my hand then so he doesn't look like he's favoring my husband.We've never discussed it but it's how we always do it. ) When I asked my T for the hug and he told me no, we spent a whole session discussing it and have spent other sessions discussing the whole issue of touch. He has explained to me that he has the policy based on two things: that the possible benefit derived from a hug is so outweighed by the potential harm that its not worth the risk and that he doesn't want to hold out the promise of providing something that can't actually be provided in therapy.

I know for the me the withholding was really important because one of the major issues I've had to deal with was never having a safe embrace from my father and being able to mourn the loss. If my therapist had given me the hug I asked for I think it would have been extremely easy to avoid facing and processing that loss (it wasn't a lot of fun). His not giving it to me led to me going past what I wanted from him and how I felt about NOT getting it from my dad. That said, he's really big on being able to discuss how I feel about touch.

That was another aspect that was very important for me in how he handled it, experiencing that there was NOTHING wrong in asking and that getting a no didn't mean the relationship was destroyed, or that I was worthless. So for me and my circumstances, my Ts decision about touch were instrumental to my healing.

But I'm definitely not a believer in a one policy fits all so I recognize that other therapists handle this issue differently and that doesn't make their decision wrong. As a matter of fact for the right client, it's the better decision. I think there are two crucial things about this issue. The first, that True North talked about in the Hugs thread is that the subject should absolutely be open to discussion no matter what your Ts policy. I have always been able to tell my T how I'm feeling (which in one session was me expressing a lot of rage that he wouldn't just hold me. He took it well including my telling him I wanted to throw something at him. ). The second factor is that the decision to touch or not touch and the actual contact be about the client's needs and NOT the therapist. As a crude example, a therapist should not offer a hug because they feel like they need one that day. And for most therapist, physical touch is usually initiated by the patient in order to respect their boundaries as some people find unsolicited touch as invasive, if not abusive and triggering.

But I will say that as much as I understand and agree with my Ts policy on touch I can find it difficult sometimes to not be able to get that. And it is sometimes quite painful reading about other people receiving from their Ts what I cannot have from mine. But the proof is in the pudding and I have been able to do an immense amount of healing with my T, so I trust his choices and their benefit to me. I also really appreciate that we do shake hands since it provides reassurance that I'm not too repulsive to touch so I know he's not hiding behind his policy but that it's really there for my good and not as a rejection of who I am.

AG

seablue,
I am doing EMDR right now. He uses his finger.
We have targeted about 6 traumatic memories and I have successfully been able to process all but one of them...a sud 10. I was amazed at how well it has worked. Did you have success with it? I can never cry in front of my T.
Wish I could, as that would mean the ultimate trust is present.

Reading here about touch, I had the nerve to tell my T via email that when he took my wrist the other day and rubbed it and said, you don't
need to be doing that, (meaning cutting) that I hadn't done so since. So, I basically told him that him touching me stopped this behavior that I know is bothering him...and me. I think it was a good thing for him to know he helped me by touching me, nothing in appropriate, but it did make an impression.

Lizzygirl... I think safe touch in therapy can be very effective as another way of communicating. A sort of non-verbal emphasis to what your T wants to say to you. I think what he did was very powerful because you heard his message about cutting both verbally in your logical left brain and also you "felt it" through his touch and that message got delivered through your senses to your right emotional brain. I'm so glad you took the step to share this with him via email. It's important that he knows what helps you and what doesn't.

My T offered me a hug after a very difficult session where I finally told him about some of the abuse I suffered as a child and I was pretty upset and activated after the session. His offer of SAFE touch went a long way in soothing me until I could see him again to further discuss it.

TN