quote:

Honestly, she is truly scaring me and I'm worried that she is going to really hurt you because she is starting to sound and act like my OldT. She is bringing too much of her own baggage into your therapy. I would strongly urge you to seek a consultation from someone at least to clarify things for you and to validate what we are all saying.

quote:

Despite how much I loved my oldT and still love him... I would NOT go back to him if I could. He is not my T ... I found a much better T who cares for me in the correct way by being consistent and stable and steady and understanding and accepting of MY instablity and my issues and fears. And I am attaching to him and I really care for and about him. This is truly so amazing to me that I could do this!

So I just want to say while it was not easy... it was grueling at times and frightening... I survived it and I am in much better hands now than I ever was. And maybe you could be too... if you find someone... the right someone... who can love you (although they won't say it) and they will show you they do by their actions in therapy.

OK, TN, it freaks me a little that what I have written, you could have written word for word 6 months ago. You seem to be saying to me, "I can see the writing on the wall, and it ain't pretty." I totally respect what you have been through. And I can see how much your current T has been a blessing to you - although you never would have found him if you hadn't been forced to.

So I have done something very scary for me. Just a tiny step. I have contacted another therapist in the area via email to set up a consultation. We will see if he responds. There is another dude I may call on Monday because I don't have an email for him, only a phone number.

Honestly, I am not optimistic that either of these fellas could turn out to be a good fit for me, but maybe they can at least help me make the general decision whether to stay or leave my current T.

Now I have to find it in me to actually schedule an appointment and go. I don't think I should tell my T. She will just get more defensive, right? Either that or she will get her hopes up that she might soon be free of me.

Thanks for your support, SG.

I just wish I didn't love her. It physically hurts to think of not seeing her again. Hurts like, I want to collapse to the floor kind of hurt. I have this wild urge to erase all my posts and say, "Nevermind, folks, it's all me with the problem, and I will yet succeed in making her love me! I will learn exactly how to be submissive and please her!"

MH,

Maybe you need to tell her that she needs to love you the way you are, that you are tired and aren't going to earn her love anymore???

Anyway, IMO, you don't have to tell her about your consults. You don't owe her anything.

Understand the love part, the physical hurt.

((((HUGS))))

Liese

(((((MH))))) I know that kind of love. There is someone I wish I didn't love, either. When I tell others of our history, they respond much like many on this thread are responding to you. It physically hurts me too, to think of never seeing him again. I have literally collapsed to the floor in pain over him. And if you told me there was something I could do to make him love me again, I would probably do it. So I do understand...and I am so sorry for the pain you are in. It is truly hellish.

SG

MH, I am SO sorry if I have freaked you out as I really didn't want to do that. And I'm not saying to up and leave her.... I just think you need an outside, knowledgeable, unbiased opinion (not mine) of what has been happening in the therapy room with you. That is why I think you should go on a consultation. It only means that you are gathering information, not that you have to make a decision to leave her. In fact, they may see some things that would enable this relationship to move ahead, or to change in a way that benefits you. I wish I had done this or even knew that it was done and it was okay to do. I almost called someone else for a consult but I kept thinking I could save the relationship myself and that it was a terrible thing to do to my T whom I loved. But when you are the one involved you just can't see a lot of things.

The other thing is that my son was seeing him too and he abanonded my little boy as well, which is very confusing for him and left him thinking all kinds of things and feeling deserted. Then he promised him a termination session and now seems to have reneged on that promise as well. I blame myself for a lot of this and if I had just walked away myself, then my son would still have his T. But I waited until things got really ugly and then all my choices were taken away from me and that feels really bad. To be backed into that corner, powerless and having no choice.

I guess what I'm saying is that you do have choices now which is a good thing. You can consult and stay, you can consult and leave, you can leave and keep your kids with her and see her as the parent, you can all leave, you can do nothing. She may be fine with the kids like my oldT was. He was very good with my son and they had a solid trusting relationship.

I know the pain you are in and so does SG and some of the others. I have been on the floor, ready to die because the pain was so horrendus. I have loved someone so deeply and I trusted him with every fiber of my being to take care of me and not to abandon me. It is not easy to walk away from the person who is your oxygen. And, although I see some red flags, I am not telling you to walk away from her, only to seek a consult to get some clarity and insight into HER behavior because I do not think it is you at all. What you want and expect from therapy is what we all want and you are doing NOTHING WRONG.

Please do not make yourself sick over this. It will be okay. I am sorry if what I have said was too raw and I upset you. This is a hugely personal and important decision and I am not in that room with you and would never tell you what to do. I was really just sharing my story.

I think I'm just going to go away from this thread now because I don't want to scare you or hurt you or cause you to feel pain or get you upset. Please know that I'm thinking of you and care about what happens to you so all I have said comes from a good place of caring. I hope things work out for the best for you and your children. I will keep you in my thoughts.

Many hugs
TN

Hello MH
I can feel your pain, it must hurt really really bad...

Ever since I discovered that I was getting attached to my P, this is the thing I have feared, that she would say something that would hurt me deeply.

Wish I could hug you. In our pretend world maybe it will work if I send you a hug through the internet, you just have to wrap your arms around yourself and think it´s from a woman that understands.


Take care and be kind to yourself, you surely deserve that

quote:

Originally posted by MH:

I just wish I didn't love her. It physically hurts to think of not seeing her again. Hurts like, I want to collapse to the floor kind of hurt. I have this wild urge to erase all my posts and say, "Nevermind, folks, it's all me with the problem, and I will yet succeed in making her love me! I will learn exactly how to be submissive and please her!"

Of course it hurts!! She is your attachment figure and the fear of separation from her is triggering all of those old wounds on top of the pain of missing her and not wanting to lose her. Believe me, I understand that so well. I just don't want to see you get hurt even more and add another wound on top of what is already there. I'm glad that you've taken the step to reach out to a few other T's and at least discuss this issue and get another professionals opinion.

quote:

But I can't imagine working on attachment with any T if it is just going to be salt in the same gaping wound. If no other T can love me either, then why would I want to torture myself going?

There is a way for a T to be fully present with you and support you in a way that feels very loving without professing their love for you. In being there for you in that pain and present with you while you experience the pain oozing out of that gaping wound that you speak of, you will begin to fill that space with something new. Something that feels accepting, loving and right. It won't be something that you have to earn, compete for or test. It will just be there as much as you need for as long as you need until that hole is filled with new feelings and you can begin to branch out and get some of those needs met in healthy ways outside of T. It doesn't have to feel like pouring salt in a wound and it shouldn't feel like that. That doesn't mean it will be easy, but it won't feel as if you are being hurt all over again.

The T I sent an email inquiry to a little before midnight last night has already responded, this morning before 9 AM. What?? On a Sunday? This is not necessarily a good sign. Perhaps he is desperate for clients.

I think its a good sign her responded on a Sunday. To me that says he is responsive and doesn't see his job as a 9-5 type of thing (which perhaps means outside contact?)

MH, my new T replies to my emails instantly and it has really concerned me as I am not used to such quick responses and I thought the same as you but I really like the way she works so am looking at the positive fact that I don’t have any agony over waiting for responses.

Butterfly

My T texts on weekends and he has a lot of clients and is (thus far) pretty excellent, as human beings go at least. In fact, I usually don't know when my appointment is until whenever he has his schedule worked out on Sunday (still waiting to know if I have one tomorrow or Tuesday).

With today's technology he may have his emails directly on his phone and thus it would not be unusual to send a quick one right back if he happens to have a chance. It's probably easier to stay caught up that way and not wait until Monday when he's busy seeing patients.

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
(((((MH))))) I know that kind of love. There is someone I wish I didn't love, either. When I tell others of our history, they respond much like many on this thread are responding to you. It physically hurts me too, to think of never seeing him again. I have literally collapsed to the floor in pain over him. And if you told me there was something I could do to make him love me again, I would probably do it. So I do understand...and I am so sorry for the pain you are in. It is truly hellish.

SG, so sorry that it is still so painful. You are right, if there is something I can do to "fix" it, I will want to try. I can't help it. In fact, at this point that is my justification for consulting with another T - to get help determining whether my current therapy relationship can be saved.

quote:

Originally posted by True North:
MH, I am SO sorry if I have freaked you out as I really didn't want to do that. And I'm not saying to up and leave her.... I just think you need an outside, knowledgeable, unbiased opinion (not mine) of what has been happening in the therapy room with you. That is why I think you should go on a consultation. It only means that you are gathering information, not that you have to make a decision to leave her.

TN, please don't feel that you did anything wrong or that you have to leave the thread. I value your input, that's all I'm saying. And I appreciate this part I quoted from you above because right now I can only do this in baby steps. It helps to realize I don't have to make any commitments either way, that its ok to just seek information at this point - a fresh, professional perspective.

quote:

I blame myself for a lot of this and if I had just walked away myself, then my son would still have his T.

I hate to see you blaming yourself, TN. What your T did was incredible at the time - like a really bad dream, too unreal to be true. You can't blame yourself for not knowing future events. The blame lies with your T!

But I wonder...if you had somehow walked away when it was still your choice, and let your son continue to see oldT, how would that have affected you? Do you think you could have smoothly handled the transition to no longer being a client but yet still having to deal with oldT in your parent role? Would you not have longed for more than that?

quote:

She may be fine with the kids like my oldT was. He was very good with my son and they had a solid trusting relationship.

That is interesting to me, how it can be, and yet I also believe it to be true for my kids. I see no evidence of them being harmed by my T. So to take them away from her would be a selfish move on my part.

quote:

It is not easy to walk away from the person who is your oxygen.

What an appropriate analogy. None of us have a choice whether to seek for breath; it is necessary for physical survival. Similarly, could it be true we also do not have a choice whether to seek for emotional breath? That it is ingrained within us to seek to meet that need as well? The thought helps me be more gentle with myself regarding these attachment issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Moomin:
Wish I could hug you. In our pretend world maybe it will work if I send you a hug through the internet, you just have to wrap your arms around yourself and think it´s from a woman that understands.

Moomin, how generously compassionate of you, and we have just met. Thank you so much and I will try my best to feel your cyberhug. It's all I've got right now, and they are precious.

Thanks to those of you who have reassured me about the quick text response. STRM, I think you are right, that he probably gets his emails on his phone. The response was very short, typical of one texted on a phone. He said he'd get back to me ASAP to set up the appointment.

Now I am trying to figure out how to describe my issues to this consult T. I can just envision how it will go down:

Consult: So what seems to be the problem?
Me: Umm, my T won't love me.
Consult: And you think she should?
Me: Well, no. I mean yes. Well, people say she shouldn't...and I guess she doesn't...but I can't accept that.
Consult: And how did you want me to help you with that?
Me: Well, can't we do something to make her love me?
Consult: [uncomfortable silence] I don't think that would be ethical...or possible.
Me: OK... well I just needed a second opinion. Thanks for your time and here's your $150. I'll go bury my head in the sand at home now.

MH, It's SO great to hear you took this step to look after yourself and be safe. I love what TN said about having choices, and I love seeing you taking the reigns to investigate those choices. I totally agree that this is not about having to leave if you don't feel that's right (though I think I've made my opinions clear ) but about getting some more perspective on the situation, so your choices open up more.

As for ME being your T - sure thing, if you'll be mine in return - are you ready for that, sister?

Another great big cyberhug incoming, MH. We're here for you.

Jones

MH,

Just checking in to see how you are. What happened with the consult?

The consult T just offered me an appointment tonight, just to explore, not to commit. Wow, I wasn't expecting to get in so soon. My brain is turning to spaghetti. I won't know what to say. What do you all think I should say?

I texted my T yesterday and told her I would not be in at all this week. I told her I was not angry, that I just thought we would both benefit from a break. Also that I needed to sort out my attachment to her. She wrote back that she disagreed on the need for a break but "as you will." So I thanked her and said it wouldn't be easy, but neither would coming in. I told her to have a good week, and that my daughter would still see her on Thursday. She wrote back, "You need to come." I didn't answer her. I was afraid to cave in. So I called the receptionist and left a message to cancel my appointments. I am not sure if what I am feeling right now is calmness. I think its numbness, to protect myself from losing it.

(((((MH)))))))

She knows you are hurting. Maybe you should go in and not run away from the pain? Can you do the consult and still go in to see her? I know I'm probably saying the wrong thing. It's just that I know you are hurt and feel sad.

Liese, I appreciate you giving your honest feedback. I don't know that you are saying the wrong thing. I should be in session at this very moment if I had kept it, and I will not ask for Thursday's session back. For one thing, I'm sure it has already been filled because any time I've canceled in the past and then tried to get the spot back, it has been already given to someone else. At this point I do plan on seeing her again though. I still have appointments scheduled for next week which I have not canceled. I may very well stick with her, but hopefully if I do it will be for the right reasons.

MH- I am in awe. You are being so strong. I can say that I am pretty darn sure that your T was way off base to tell you that you what to do when you were so clear with her about what you needed. I am in absolute awe that you were able to stand up to her and for yourself. I hope it ok I say that! I can't think you are running away from the pain. Maybe going in this week when you need time to think about stuff would be running... ? Maybe. I don't know for sure though, so it's just a thought. I think you are handling everything just beautifully. To thine own self be true- if it works out and you go back, fine but trust your own decision for this week, I would think.

Love,

BB

quote:

I am in awe. You are being so strong. I can say that I am pretty darn sure that your T was way off base to tell you that you what to do when you were so clear with her about what you needed. I am in absolute awe that you were able to stand up to her and for yourself.

I agree with BB. Please update us and let us know how you feel about the consult. I hope it is productive and you feel safe to work through these questions.

MH, I would definitely not be as strong, if that's what staying away is. I don't see anything wrong with going in there and telling her that she hurt your feelings. Personally, I think that's being strong. Owning your feelings and facing her. You do have a relationship with her afterall. And, what she said hurt. Isn't that what we are supposed to be learning to do? Not sure I agree with the others on this one.

But, at the end of the day, only you can make that decision. Whatever it is. And so, I send you big ((((((HUGS)))))) because I know how much it hurts.

Liese

I meant strong in terms of saying no when T said she "needed" to come in. I would probably just cave. I'm a people-pleaser. T should have said something like, "Are you sure you don't want to come in?" I think.

MH,

I hope the consult goes well and you get some perspective from it.

My take on her saying "you need to come" was that she meant you needed to come to your daughter's appointment. Perhaps I read that wrong and she meant you needed to come. I don't think taking a week break is out of line at all. It's not like you said you were never coming back. I think taking this time to have the consult and get your thoughts in order is great. I hope everything works out for you. Please keep us posted. (((hugs)))

MH, you will have had your consult by now. I hope it went really well, and that you were able to communicate the spirit of the conflict inside you about what's been going on in your therapy. Let us know, huh?

Not sure where your T was coming from with "you need to come" - that sounds off-base to me, too - but I think it's really healthy that you took charge by giving yourself some breathing space. Hope you are going okay.

((((MH))))

Jones

MH,

How did the consult go? How are you feeling about things?

MH,
I'm glad that despite the incredible pain you're in, you are working so very hard to achieve clarity and move on in your healng, whatever form that ends of taking. I hope the consultation was helpful.

AG

Thanks guys for your continuing support. You are all carrying me through right now. I don't know if I am strong. Maybe I'm running away. Not sure yet.

So I went to the appointment tonight. It was nothing spectacular, maybe even slightly disappointing, but I do feel a certain little pride inside for being able to go regardless.

The guy was nice enough. Yes, it was a guy, not a gal. I am wary of going to male T's, one reason being I want to avoid transference, either erotic or paternal. (I mean, how understanding is the guy's wife going to be when a grown woman wants to keep texting her husband night and day? And that would be me.) I told the guy upfront that I didn't want to like him too much and he should keep his distance. But so far no immediate transference worries. The guy was a little dorky in his Hawaiian shirt in the middle of winter (there's still snow on the ground where I'm at). But hey, since I don't want to get attached to him, dorky is good. He's also tubby and balding, and what hair is left is white. All those are good things. I did shake his hand because he stuck it out there waiting for me and it was a bit awkward to refuse. But luckily I didn't feel any waves of transference attraction in the handshake. I didn't feel anything at all. It was a bland experience.

He is willing to take me as a client, despite the warnings I gave him about how much trouble I might be. But I'm not super confident about his therapy model of treatment. He's into brief therapy more than long term, although he acknowledged some people want and do better with longer term. He's not really that psychoanalytical. I think I know more about object relations than he does. He's into neurolinguistic programming. (Does anyone have any experience with that?) I just don't know. There was nothing that was glaringly horrid to send me immediately packing, but I just feel so blah about it.

The good thing is that he's totally fine with me seeing him without any commitment, just to use him to sort things out about my current T if I want. So despite my doubts, I went ahead and scheduled another session with consult T in a week. I might consider seeing both T's for a little while.

It's amazing how little can be said in an hour. It was just an overview and not many details were shared. Consult T did say a few key phrases that some of you would like. For example, he referred more than once on focusing on what my strengths were, not my limitations, and he tried to point out what he already noticed were some of those strengths. He talked about "gathering resources" to bring the client back to at the end of processing so that they wouldn't leave a session in a traumatized state, not feeling safe. He said when people feel really safe, that's when they process successfully. Maybe that should be obvious, but when he said it I immediately thought to myself, "No wonder I'm not getting anywhere. I still don't feel entirely safe in therapy." It's something I want to discuss with current T, how can she help me to feel more secure.

That's about it. I have 3 tests in school the next few days, and somehow I've got to force myself to focus on that, not therapy. Wish me luck, I'll need it.

Tubby, balding, and sporting Hawaiian shirts in winter? I love it!! He's perfect! If you fall in love with him, we will direct you back to this thread.

Does T1 know you are seeing this other guy on the side?

LG, you keep me straight if I start to waiver, k?

No, T1 doesn't know. At this point I don't plan to tell her. I'd be scared it would make her even more defensive. Do you think I'm wrong? I suppose there is a tiny possibility it would be a wake-up call to her in a good way, but only if she really wanted to keep me as a client. And after last session, that would be hard for me to believe. What I feel right now is just shame that if I remind her of her adopted sister then apparently she can hardly stand me.

Well, I am just a little bit worried about how T1 will react if/when she finds out simply because of how Mac's T reacted when he found out she had gone to another T for a consult. He terminated her! But he did take her back and they worked it out but initially he didn't like her sneaking around.

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong. In fact, I think its good to shop around. But these Ts....they can be sensitive!

I hope I haven't worried you. I just couldn't help but think of Mac's situation....so many parallels.

Hi MH,

Good for you for going to the appointment! I'm sorry it was a little disappointing, and at the same time sorta glad that it wasn't overloading for you, you know?

I had similar fears about falling into transference weirdness with a male T - and only finally made the decision because I was in a "fuck everything" mood - and then actually was surprised to find that when I actually go in the room and sit with him, he's just some guy. There is a relationship developing over time, and it feels like an important relationship, but it's not anywhere near the crazy out of control roller coaster I was expecting.

Do you feel like you were able to communicate your doubts and fears about the situation with your T to this guy?

I'm not wild about NLP - I've only experienced bits as translated through various self-help type movements, and frankly it sorta seems like a very surface-only, top-down, smile-your-way-to-happiness approach. Its effectiveness doesn't seem very well supported in the scientific literature.

But regardless of that, I think you did a really positive thing here in checking in with someone else and finding it wasn't so scary. Now, of course, I'm wondering how you feel about a *third* opinion...

J

((((((MH))))))

Good luck on your tests today. It's hard when life interferes with therapy. That must have been nice to hear, that he would take you as a client. So, maybe you're not as hard to work with or as difficult as you think your are???

I found it empowering to go out and consult. It got me out of some funky zone I was in. Kind of like zooming out with a zoom lens. And it also made me realize that I could go find someone else if I want to. It would be a pain in the neck but I could do it. And I wasn't as dependent on him as I thought.

I never told my T about my consults. I don't think it's any of his business. It may come up in the future or it may not.

Good luck again today.

(((((HUGS))))))

Liese

MH,
I’m happy the consult went okay! I hope you feel some relief with just the fact that it’s over. When I wanted a consult I had to see two other T’s till I found one that was helpful. The first I was sorta indifferent about, he wasn’t necessarily helpful, I didn’t really get my questions answered, but he wasn’t bad either. The second one was awful- he spent most of the time talking about himself and his wife and kids. Then the third one that I saw was so incredibly helpful and I got answers to absolutely everything I was wondering about my T and I and our relationship. Just letting you know my experience, because personally I’m really happy I kept looking and didn’t settle for the first guy. But this guy does sound helpful to you!

quote:

Well, I am just a little bit worried about how T1 will react if/when she finds out simply because of how Mac's T reacted when he found out she had gone to another T for a consult. He terminated her! But he did take her back and they worked it out but initially he didn't like her sneaking around.

I am not saying you are doing anything wrong. In fact, I think its good to shop around. But these Ts....they can be sensitive!

I hope I haven't worried you. I just couldn't help but think of Mac's situation....so many parallels.

The fact that I saw consult T’s had nothing to do with my T’s decision that I might do better with a different T. My T definitely didn’t think I was sneaking around either, nor was he mad in the slightest that I saw consult T’s. I talked to him after I saw each one. I don’t think its wrong to not tell your T, MH, that just wasn’t how I did it. I actually really don’t see any parallels.

Mac

quote:

The fact that I saw consult T’s had nothing to do with my T’s decision that I might do better with a different T. My T definitely didn’t think I was sneaking around either, nor was he mad in the slightest that I saw consult T’s. I talked to him after I saw each one. I don’t think its wrong to not tell your T, MH, that just wasn’t how I did it. I actually really don’t see any parallels.

I'm sorry if I offended you, Mac. I did not mean to imply that you were sneaking around. Perhaps I misunderstood the story about your T, but my interpretation was that your T thought you had been shopping around for other Ts to replace him. again, I apologize if I have offended you. I must have read your story incorrectly as I did see some parallels.

I wasn’t offended, just clearing up any miscommunications. It's understandable since I know I had a lot of different guesses of why my T wanted to terminate. Since then I’ve figure out that a lot of them were just guesses. I could probably explain more what I’ve learned (not on this thread) but I don’t really feel like it’s the right time.

Oh no, LG, it was me who was sneaking around!!! LOL!!

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:
Oh no, LG, it was me who was sneaking around!!! LOL!!

lol, entirely possible that I have merged two different situations into one. I do get a big confused keeping up around here while also tyring to manage my own drama which is confusing even to myself.

Mac, glad you weren't offended.