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$#!+, sorry this is so long. I understand if no one wants to read it. I'm just feeling alone right now and don't want to bother T with it.

Now that I've had some space to get over the, "See? My mom is normal and I'm making it all up for attention," thing and be back to believing that there is some real damage from that relationship, I'm reflecting on her visit.

I couldn't make eye contact with her. I could only look at her when I knew she was looking away. Some of you noticed, sorry, that a CP got triggered out from her visit and was terrified we're in trouble for even talking about her. The same one muted us in therapy for 30 minutes last night for that reason and then talked to T for the first time, though I don't really remember except knowing they're scared of mom.

She played with Boo nicely, but any time Boo showed a slight inclination to ignore her and want to do something else, she seemed to start to get offended and act like, "Well, are you going to spend time with me or not?" As I said in the check-in thread, I think she's only capable of that sort of relationship. It is why she likes having infants around. It's why she keeps taking in animals all the time and forms closer bonds with them than her any of her children once they've reached toddlerhood. It's why she is a performer by profession.

I actually wouldn't mind giving her attention (I am a caretaker by nature) if her volatility in response to any perceived slight didn't make it so toxic. But, because it is, I can't want to even be around her, no matter how nice she seems to be trying to be. I feel it's unfair to cut her off, though, and Boo didn't pick up on her attitude, so as long as I am there with them, I feel OK with Boo getting to know her grandmother to the extent that my mom is capable of being that person. I mean, they played with my mom's dog and played catch and Boo showed grandma all her chalk drawings. Other than my mom's demanding to have Boo's undivided attention during the visit, she didn't do anything bad toward Boo.

I explained my own lack of interaction by the fact that I was tired, not sleeping well with H out of town, which was not a lie and part of the reason I didn't have the energy to deal with mom like I usually would.

She did direct some stuff at me that I maybe didn't used to be as aware of and and I realized she wants to take me over, have me dependent on her like some of her other kids are.

She insisted on giving me money, but it was from my grandpa that he gave to her to give to all the kids, so I had to take it. Otherwise he'll ask whether I got it, etc. I could send it back to him, but that would be rude. When I was hesitant about accepting it, she cattily said, "Just give it to your church, then!" She said she has a gift card for me to, from a store I shop at regularly. She didn't state a reason for having it. I declined it, said I didn't need it, and I knew things were tight with her financially, so she should keep it. I mean, she is renting out two of the three rooms in her house to total strangers, converting the living room into a bedroom for my niece, housing my sister and nephews part time in the dining room, and my little brother lives in the converted attic! If her finances are so bad that my own family (especially my niece and little brother, who are high schoolers) has to live that way, I'd rather her spend money on THEM.

She asked about the house, whether it had short sold or foreclosed, and for how much. She chided me on not letting her "help" me with that situation. I'm not sure how she defined helping or what she could/would have done, but I always decline to be financially attached. I told her it didn't matter, as we were so far underwater anyway. She complained that they should have adjusted our mortgage (she's had three modifications on houses she "owns" under another person's name and was simultaneously scamming the system to get "rent" assistance for living in one of them). I kind of poked the bear by saying that we were the ones who didn't live up to our contract. She has an entitlement thing and thinks the rules don't apply to her. When I've described it in detail to T, he has said it's kind of sociopathic. Frowner

Finally, she asked how much we were spending for rent on our new place. I didn't really want to tell her, but I also didn't want to start an argument about how/why it was none of her business, so I just told her. She proceeded to tell me I was spending too much money, she thinks I got a bad deal, am being cheated...then offered to kick out her current tenants from one of her houses (a three bedroom) and let us rent it with a roommate for $525 more than we're renting our two-bedroom. She kept complaining that I wasn't letting her "help" me.

I haven't accepted help from her since the one Summer (after sophomore year) that I went home and stayed in the dining room. The previous year, I lived with an old pastor in a spare room (one who knows T, coincidentally). The Summer after junior year, I did Summer school to stay on campus. After senior year, I immediately (six days later) got married and moved in with H. My whole junior year after staying there 2.5 months, I had intrusive SU daily. I considered dropping out everyday. Being involved with my mom in any way is toxic to me.

She wants to take me over. She wants me dependent on her like most of her other kids are. Well, my younger siblings have started to follow suit. The youngest moved in with her boyfriend to be free of living there. The second youngest moved in with the healthiest of our siblings. My brother is still trapped there and with doing so poorly in school, who knows how he'll escape. Frowner The oldest is there part-time with her kids. Everyone but me (and maybe the other older sister) goes through mom for insurance and cell phones and what not. I am the only one who has refused to need her completely.

I think it infuriates her. Any time I am vulnerable (like these financial struggles), she looks for a way in, not because she wants to help me, but she wants me to be helped by HER. She wants me to be attached to her. I can't attach. Either the stuff the kids have showed me about what happened is true and that's why, or she was just EXTREMELY neglectful during an extended period of depression and instability in my early childhood, then toxic to me in my teens. Either way, no matter how much I want to give her the gift of being able to love her in that way, of being able to even WANT to depend on her, I can't!

When T has me imagine her changing, being a better person, being able to approach her and be safe, I can't even want that. I don't want her to change. I just want her to give me permission to give up trying to protect her from my inability to attach to her all the time.

I thought my mom didn't really criticize me except when she felt attacked, but now I realize, it's laced throughout every communication, how much better off I would be with her help, how I'm not competent to take care of things on my own. The same things she says about my siblings behind their backs. It makes me sick, because I've spent my whole life proving to her I don't need her, and she just won't accept it! I may have needed her to be a better person a long time ago, but now I don't. I just need to be allowed to let her go, to treat her with the love and respect that I show any other human being, with no expectations of her being special to me, beyond gratefulness that my daughter would not exist without her having given birth to me. I should have the right to make that choice.
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Hi Anon.... I am glad you were able to write that all out and to see how destructive and abnormal your mom's behavior is. It is apparent to us but I know how hard it is for you when you are so close to the situation to see that good mom's do not act like she does.

I am fairly certain that your mom is a flaming narcissist. She may not have NPD but she is definitely on the spectrum. The key is that she was demanding Boo's attention. My T once told me that narcissists love babies because babies give them a lot of attention and don't recognize their abnormal issues. And, of course, everything is about THEM.

I would recommend the book "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?" It's about daughters that grow up with narcissistic mothers and how crazy-making that can be. It was a real eye opener for me to read. Especially, how we always feel that we are about to "get in trouble" and how when we question them they tell us that we have "vivid immaginations" (something my mom told me often). No wonder we think we are the ones imagining all the crazy stuff. We were brainwashed to believe that.

I hope you are doing okay tonight and I know how hard it's been with dh away. Take good care of you and treat yourself well. You are working really hard and I have seen such progress in you. Don't allow your mom to set you back and take that away from you. You earned it and it's yours.

Keep talking to us and focus on you and Boo until dh gets home to give you more support.

Hugs to you
TN
Sorry it took a while for me to come back and reply to your support. I was still processing a lot about her visit. I talked about the things I posted here with T, some of the realizations I'm starting to make about how void my early attachment scenario was and how central splitting around attachment is to the way I'm "structured" internally.

(((Liese))) I hope you are able to set those boundaries too. I do it, but I feel awful. Last night, she texted a mass text to all us kids that she loved us. Whenever she texts, I reply in kind. Last night, I was getting all the reply texts from all my siblings (my phone doesn't do it, but theirs all mass texts everyone who the original person sent it to). I felt pressured to respond. And it's true, I do love her, in a totally devoid of needing her sort of way...or rather, I wish I had it in me to love her better. But, I just couldn't say it this time. I just couldn't. I guess I felt I would honor myself about that. If she gets offended when I have expressed care to her a million times, to the best of my ability to get it, that's going to have to be her issue, not mine.


(((hopeful))) Thanks for reading what you could and replying. I am trying to go more easily with myself.


(((TN))) I knew you could relate to this one. T has said, based on my description and H's, that he thinks she is a narcissist and a sociopath, to a degree. I mean, he's full of mercy and understands there is wounding there that caused it, but he has tried really hard to get me to accept that her behavior is not OK and damaging. My T said the same exact thing about narcissists loving babies. She is like that with both babies and animals. Thanks for the book recommendation. I will look into that. Yeah, the "vivid imagination" thing struck a chord. My mom would just say things that happened or were said didn't or that I said things I didn't...though who knows how much of that was DID, maybe "I" did?

DH is back and that's a relief. He's basically banned me from having my mom over or being alone with her when he's not around. I mean, ban is a strong word. He didn't demand it, but he didn't ask it either. He expressed a strong desire for me not to do that to myself anymore. I think I'm going to listen and just tell her what time are available when she asks as his work from home day. Even if he's around, she'll often wait for him to leave to get her jabs in. Like once when we were having lunch together with her, because she couldn't make Boo's birthday party, H left to go to the bathroom and mom started interrogating me about therapy and making sarcastic comments about "Oh, it's not for your marriage, what, for your 'difficult' childhood, then?" Frowner

Anyway, I talked to T in detail about this visit on Friday, and the things I was noticing, and he seemed really engaged, like he totally felt me making connections I wasn't before. I mean, intellectually I have, and this didn't feel any different to me at first. Then we went to give the kids time and I was like, "Seriously, you expect me to talk through all that attachment disaster stuff and then attach and connect here right after?" And he said, "Yes, because it's safe here," in a really kind and gentle voice and just waited for me, and repeated it a few times, "It's safe here." And, I was able to allow it to happen, to kind of connect, and to stay with it rather than other parts coming to attach to him and me running like hell to the corners of my mind and being unwilling to even witness it. At the end, I said, "Hey, I stayed and survived," and he seemed all happy and proud, too proud, which made me freak out a little. But, realizing that I'm safe with him made me reflect more on how the unsafety had (still has) nothing to do with me.

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