echo
How really hard for you, it takes an awful lot of courage to make that initial contact and is so disheartening not even to have a reply. Let's hope she has a reason - like on holiday or something. Don't give up, the right one will hopefully be waiting somewhere

starfish

echo, perhaps it may take more time for her to reply to email than to a phone call. Could you call her?
I hope you will find a good T very soon. Keep trying. Call the other ones and meet with them too. You never know, maybe the ones you don't know anything about could be even better match for you. Let us know how it goes. It must feel like it's taking forever now, but we all wish you will end up in somebody's good hands ))
Take care, echo.

I don't know how everyone else has time and energy for finding a T... I'm home with two little kids, and my husband works ALL THE TIME, so I need to ask him to take time off work for appointments (which has been an issue already), or ask another mom to watch my kids while I go. I've done that a few times, but it is awkward - I don't feel like explaining what sort of "appointment" I have, and of course if I just say it's a dr, they want to know if we're sick (no one wants sick kids around!). I can only ask for a "favor" so many times before I start to feel like I'm a big moocher.

Anyway, I'm just whining now. Interviewing new people, assuming they even return my calls or that I found two seconds of quiet time to make a personal phone call at all, just seems so overwhelming right now. I'm so tired. I'm so tired of being the mom right now. I want a nice quiet office where I can close the door and do grown-up work without anyone needing their ass wiped or crusts cut off their sandwich... OK now I am seriously WHINING.

Aw Echo - I so hear you. Want to give you a hug to make you feel like you too deserve to be looked after instead of having to look after everyone else. At least you know you CAN 'whine' on here and be listened to - not much but it's something.

I'm so sorry the T you had chosen hasn't replied yet - I came across that with the first T I contacted when I started this latest round of therapy - she didn't get back to me and as I'd decided she would be the one, I really pushed - left messages saying things like, maybe you are on holiday, if so I would really appreciate a call back when you return, stuff like that. In fact she did get back to me after about a week and no she hadn't been on holiday, she'd just 'not gotten round' to answering the messages on her answerphone! Not a good start, but I did end up seeing her twice before deciding she wasn't really right for me. Just mentioned that because if what you've read about this T appeals to you, it might be worth leaving her another message or two to give her a prod - as some of the other posters here have said, there could be a lot of different reasons for her not getting back to you in the time one would expect a T to respond.

Big hugs to you Echo.

Big hug (((echo)))
It's tough being a mum, constantly giving out until you feel there's no more to give. So please know you're definitely NOT whining. Just being honest about doing a tough job. Can you just find 5 minutes later on when they're in bed just for you? Time yourself 5 mins with a book or magazine and a cup of coffee - before you have to go and tidy up or whatever. I think you really deserve it.

So hoping you get some response soon from those Ts - if only they knew what they put us through

starfish

I finally got an email from her. She couldn't remember if she'd emailed me back already, and appologized if she's repeating herself.

She's booked solid this month, but maybe next month she can fit me in. OK. Seriously scatterbrained and a little flaky, too. That may be a deal-breaker for me. I think I'll keep looking.

Hey, Echo..

I think it's a good decision to keep looking. Especially since you really don't know if you two will "mesh," there's no reason for you to hold back and wait a month. Also, from what I've read (and experienced), you shouldn't have to wait more than 24 or 48 hours (at the most) to get a response back from someone you've contacted. If you have to wait longer than that, IMO, cross them off the list.

Good luck and keep us updated! I know how extremely difficult it can be.

Hi Echo,

I'm sorry to hear that the first T you tried hasn't worked out. And FWIW, I agree with Starfish, I don't think you're whining. IMO, going to "work" is a paid "break" compared to taking care of little kids all day! Raising those little ones is the most important "work" you'll ever do...but it takes everything you've got, and I honestly don't know how you're holding it together with what sounds like no emotional support from your husband.

Just a couple of ideas I had...is there any possibility of hiring a sitter once a week, so you don't have to explain yourself? Or is there any possibility of confiding in one of the moms so you don't feel the pressure of them wondering what is going on? Is there one you could trust with this? As far as feeling indebted to her, maybe you could "trade" sitting time once a week...she sits for your kids, and you sit for hers while she goes to the library or has some other kind of "alone" time. I don't know too many moms who would turn down a deal like that.

I can hear how tired and discouraged you are. Rest when you can, but I hope you don't give up. It would be so great if you could find a T who is the right fit for you. And she might be closer than you think...just because you don't have a referral for one, that doesn't mean she might not be just right for you. I didn't have a referral for my T, I just found her on that psychology internet site.

I know it's hard right now too because you miss your P so much...but on the other hand, that's why you could really use a new counselor to talk to. Keep trying, Echo...she's out there somewhere!

Hugs,
SG

Hi Echo just wondering how you’re doing. If it’s any consolation I am now about to join the ranks of T-Terminators and will be putting myself through the same pain you are going through now trying to find another T. They’re a bit thin on the ground around here and I’ve already worked my way through a lot of them when I finally decided on current T. I’m not feeling too shithot about it at all and that’s a gross understatement. Anyway I’m starting a new thread about this so just wanted to say you’ve got my sympathy and thoughts with you right now.

I replied to your thread already before I saw this. Ug, T shopping is awful.

So the T that I thought would be perfect, but ended up being too flaky for my tastes, sent me an email and recommended a few other people. One of these was also recommended by my former P, so I'll check her out.

SG mentioned that Psychology site and I checked it, and there are three Ts listed there in my town. One of them mentions specifically that she deals with transference and attachment issues, and practices long-term therapy. I think I'll give her a call. (Thanks SG!! ) Not that I really want to be in long-term therapy, but it will be nice to have the pressure off and feel like I should be "cured" in only 12 weeks. And obviously, if she specializes in attachment issues, she won't think it weird that I fell in love with my P and whatnot. Don't relish the idea of discussing that, but it needs to happen, since I am still obsessing over him.

Thanks everyone for your support and for inquiring on how I'm doing. I appreciate it!

Hey, Echo...that sounds pretty promising! Let us know how it turns out, ok? We'll keep our fingers crossed. I so relate to the comment you made about being a mom. I relate to it all, especially cutting crusts and feeling overwhelmed by decisions that are about me only, and sometimes it just feels like everything is exploding doesn't it? Yeah, who has time for Dr. appointments for mom? ugh. But, great that you are doing this, and it speaks columes of your strength to keep trying! Good for you, Echo! Keep us posted!

BB

I think I finally found someone. She returned my phone call within 24 hours (thank you!) and I have an appointment with her in 10 days. Reliability is a huge issue for me. I absolutely cannot stand irresponsible or unpredictable behavior, so the fact that she actually returned my call is a good indicator to me. (Two others I called a week ago still have never called back. I guess they don't need more business!)

New T asked me on the phone why I discontinued with my P. Uhhh... really didn't want to launch into that with someone I haven't even seen face to face yet. So I just said we had "persistent communication difficulties" and that I thought it would be better for me to work with a female T. And she said, "OH! It was a male therapist. Well then, yes... I see." As if that explains everything. lol.

Echo that’s great news! And boo hiss to those Ts who didn’t even bother returning your calls, that’s downright rude not just unpredictable.

10 days is a long time though - are you still going to keep trying other Ts or wait until after you have seen her?

I have been going through the same process - and I have to say I’ve done this prelim contacting so often now (did a lot of it last year when I decided to go back into therapy) and most Ts got back to me almost immediately (both by phone or as I do more often, email) that I got used to expecting instant replies. Now if a T doesn’t get back to me within a day or two I tend to write them off as this being a pretty good indication of their lack of commitment to my therapy.

Have you tried doing an email ‘shot’ - I find it quite useful because I can get to write out what I want from therapy in one go, send it off to as many as I think I might want to meet with and have the time to pick over their responses before actually arranging an appointment. The ones who take the time to reply properly to my email are the ones I usually phone up. Ha ha listen to me, it sounds as if I have dozens of Ts lined up. Not so, just talking about the combined efforts of last year and right now. I just find it almost impossible to explain what I need on the phone (and as you found, being asked questions I don’t want to talk about right there and then) that emailing seems to work so much better as an introductory sort of thing.

Anyway just me rambling. I’m so pleased you actually have an appointment lined up, that must make you feel a bit better about the whole thing.

Lamplighter

Thanks Lamplighter for replying.
I tried the email route in the beginning, but only got one response, and it was by phone. So then I just decided to phone them all. It seems that people over a certain age just don't check their email as often, or maybe they get overwhelmed by the volume (of spam) and don't reply. I know my mom is like that. I don't know anything about these potential T's, including their ages, so I thought I'd just play it safe and phone them from now on.

I was actually surprised to get an appointment in only 10 days! I remember scheduling my first appt with my P, I had to wait over a month.

I'm just so relieved to have something lined up at all. It's been really difficult lately, not having anyone to talk to about this... missing my P. I mentioned to my best friend that I had decided to stop seeing him, and she just said, "Oh good. No more drama. It's nice to have that over." I don't think she meant to be mean, but well... it was mean.

Hi Echo,

I'm glad you were able to finally get an appointment with someone. I was pleased with my new T that I was able to schedule an appointment within 10 days, too. I expected a longer wait. I'm sorry it's been tough for you having to deal with all of the feelings regarding your old T, but luckily you don't have too much longer. Here's to hoping that you don't have to look any further! And I can see how what your friend said would be interpreted as being mean. I don't know her or anything, but she may have meant it as being "nice" for you - nice that you don't have that extra drama. Just my guess.

Echo I'm glad to hear you found someone to see in 10 days. I'm sure it must be so hard for you right now trying to deal with leaving your P and all the feelings that evokes in you. Why don't you "talk" to us while you are waiting to see the new T. We will be happy to support you while you wait.

As for your friend... I find that people who are not in therapy just don't get it... all those intense feelings that are stirred up in therapy and they understand even less the attachment and transference feelings we can also have for our Ts and Ps. That's why this Board is such an amazing place to come and talk about it. The members here do get it and understand what you are going through.

Here's hoping your 10 day wait will pass quickly.

TN

Hi Echo... so glad you wrote... really.

From my own experience, I found that the only way I could talk to my T about the really hard things was when I felt or feel safe. And that is a constantly flucuating situation. Sometimes I feel safer than other times, but it has been going in the direction of feeling safe more and more. It has been a long struggle to get here and I have setbacks but I believe this step is imperative to opening up about the things WE believe are our horrible flaws, defects and damage. I love my T too, and it has been quite a challenge to allow him to see my flaws and all the damage that happened to me over the years. But what happened was that each time I opened up a tiny bit to him I got only empathy, understanding and care. So this became easier and easier over time to let him in. I'm not all the way there yet, and it has been a roller coaster but each time we disrupt we repair and our relationshp just gets stronger.

So what I can say is that the most important step when you start therapy is to work on establishing trust and safety. Those of us with trauma background will never open up if we don't feel safe and accepted. It only has something to do with your brain in that your amydala which controls that fight or flight impulse it warning you that getting closer to your P is very dangerous and you should run like heck away from this danger. It's very hard to go against this very powerful message. As for not being able to communicate with men...I honestly don't know about that one. I DO know that I would not see a woman T because I knew I would not be able to open up to one and have very strong feelings about this.

As for being pathetic about loving your P... that is so untrue or we are all pathetic on here. Do you think I'M pathetic because I love and adore my T? We have developed these strong feelings for a reason, we have finally found someone to meet our needs, to listen to us, to understand our feelings and to give us a safe place to settle into for awhile. We have developed an attachment and our Ts/Ps have become our attachment figures, the ones we never had as children. This is not pathetic is very healthy to connect with another human. It is a biological need to connect and especially to search out a stronger, wiser other to guide us in times of trouble and fear. So while you see this as pathetic is actually a good sign. The feelings of humiliation are probably coming from your past and how someone back then made you unjustly feel about yourself.

You did not mess up and nothing is irreversible. Please don't take this out on yourself. I would say to try therapy with this new female T and see how it goes. Maybe you could talk about your old P and you may even want to go back to him when you feel up to engaging in a more intimate and deeper therapy with him and work through the feelings you have for him.

This is the last bastion for me... talking to my T about my feelings for him... although I'm sure he knows by now how I feel... he would just be shocked at the depth of them. But first I have to work through some additional trauma.

Hope this helps. And as my wonderful T reminds me often... it's never too late unless you are dead...

Keep talking here.
Hug
TN

Echo,
that's great that you are seeing somebody pretty soon.
Is she doing psychodynamic therapy?

Well, your friends comment, as it was that simple, that once you stop seeing your P "the drama" will be over... Do people think it's that simple? Out of sight, out of mind (and heart)?

echo, I understand that you are having difficulty in relating to other men and this got replicated in your therapy. I think the purpose of therapy is to get it revealed in front of the therapst so he/she can see it and ... I don't know... deal with it.

So I don't think that you should be blaming yourself for the reasons why you are/were in therapy.

I guess your P was dedicated and wanted to help, but he just didn't have the skills, the knowledge etc.
Was he mainly CBT therspist? Did he also do some psychodynamic work? I understand that he recognized what was going on but wasn't able to do much about it.

I think a psychodynamic therapist should be able to hold you in this relationship, keep asking about your feelings and nearly force you to talk about how you feel. I get absolutely freaked out trying to tell my T about how I feel about him and I don't have a good record of relationships with men either... Yet he is there and keeps pushing me to talk about my feelings.

I wonder, did your P managed to communicate to you that being in love with him is not pathetic, that there is no reason to feel humiliated, that it's absolutely ok to love him or hate him or whatever.

Hi Echo,

Like everyone else said, I'm really glad for you that you have an appointment set up with a new T! I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes at the first appointment. Very curious to know more about what she meant about the "male therapist" comment. At least it sounds like she won't be surprised that you developed feelings for your P, which means she may turn out to be someone safe to talk to about all your feelings about him. Then again, it could mean that she's going to bad-mouth your P, which would probably NOT work out at all. It will be interesting to see. I really hope she works out for you, because I can really understand how it's been so hard not to have anyone to confide in about what's happened. And I'd like to repeat TN's encouragement to talk to us while you are waiting. If you are feeling overwhelmed, then talk about that, if it helps. That's why we're here, to support each other!

I'm sorry you are feeling sad and missing your P. One thing, though...I wish you would stop being so mean to yourself because of it. Your missing him, and loving him, is COMPLETELY understandable and it does not mean there is anything wrong with you! (and I would like to insert my own "boo hiss" here at your best friend's dismissive remark...grrr ...I agree with you that what she said was mean) Leaving a therapist is a HUGE deal, very painful and gut-wrenching and you've really had no time or safe space to process that. Again, lean on us right now.

(I know this is corny but, well, I LIKE corny. So here's a little reinforcement on the ukulele for the lean on us admonition. And if you don't stop being mean to yourself, there's more corniness where that came from. )

quote:

It's like now I can suddenly see everything I've done wrong in therapy, how I repeated all the same patterns that mess up my Real Life relationships, how my P really really tried to get me to open up but I just refused to tell him what I needed.

quote:

I feel a huge sense of loss about this missed opportunity to finally get it right. I ruin everything!

Echo...repeating the same patterns that we use in our relationships is EXACTLY what we ALL do in therapy!!! There really is no way we can help doing that. That is the whole point of what most of us here are looking for, I think, to be in relationship with our T's/P's long enough to repeat the patterns...so they can help us see what they are!! To say that you "ruined" your therapy because of this is just another way of saying "I'm too sick for therapy". Please hear this: You can't fail therapy for the very reason you went to therapy in the first place!!!

Forgive me, but this subject just makes me a little hot under the collar...maybe it's because this belief that we got in our own way keeps us in an impossible bind. It's like saying, I shouldn't have been so sick when I went to the doctor. They couldn't help me, so it must be my fault for being so sick. Next time I'll make sure I'm well before going to the doctor, and then I'll get it right. Do you see the impossibility of this? I think all of us who've had to switch T's/P's have done this to ourselves, or had it done to us...but it is always much easier to see when it's someone else.

Here's a funny skit that I think illustrates what we do to ourselves with this belief. Just to clarify, it is in no way any kind of suggestion that this is how your P was treating you. To me, this is a representation of what therapy would look like if this belief were actually true. Hopefully it helps you see how it just can't be true (or at least makes you laugh):

Stop it

Our T's/P's are there to help us look at the patterns that keep us stuck. If keeping your needs hidden is one of your patterns, then you need a safe place to look at that. For whatever reason, the "fit" with your P wasn't good enough that he could help you with it. You tried so very hard and I really do think you need to give yourself a break, and give yourself credit for all the hard work you've done so far. Voluntarily leaving your P when you saw you were stuck shows a HUGE commitment to your own healing, particularly considering your feelings for him. That alone deserves recognition, and lots of virtual hugs. So go easy on yourself, okay? And if you don't know how to do that, we will keep demonstrating it for you until you get the hang of it.

SG

SG... thank you so much for that Stop It link. It had me crying I was laughing so hard. I was sitting here thinking.... oh yeah that's CBT I may have to share that with my T!

Thanks for the laugh... it felt really good.

TN

yeah, that was a good one

Thanks so much for the peptalk everyone. I'm typing with one finger on my iPod in a cafe, so I'll reply in depth later sg - I am laughing/crying in public over that skit! Omg it was so funny! Stop it!

OMG! That video is excellent. Seems that would be how my hubby and a few friends would do therapy. Stop it!!

Oh that was so funny lol

Hev

Thanks for the laugh, SG. I'd seen that ages ago but had long since forgotten it. Would love to show that to my T. Think she could appreciate it like we do?? I know she didn't like the movie "What About Bob" - she said it hit too close to home for her.

Hi Echo,

I'm sorry, this might not have been very helpful. No, I don't think you were supposed to have a messed-up relationship with your P. It is extremely possible that I didn't explain that very well...and keep in mind, I'm in the middle of it too...but I'd like to just speak to one thing in particular:

quote:

The way you descibe it, it's like going to the doctor and saying, "I broke my arm. Let me show you how it happened." And then re-enacting the accident in his office and breaking the other arm. And then expecting him to fix both arms? This seems like an awfully painful way to get fixed!

I agree, this would be awfully painful, and you wouldn't be fixed - you would be re-injured, or re-traumatized (the other broken arm). This is exactly what the therapeutic boundaries are designed to avoid. When your P told you his feelings about you, that was akin to breaking your other arm. The re-enactment happened at that point. I agree, it doesn't sound like he meant to...but after hearing more of the details, I can really see why the therapy couldn't go any further.

To use your broken arm analogy, if he had held the boundaries, you would have told him how you were feeling and what you were thinking, and without acting on it (or allowing you to), he could have helped you see where your feelings and thinking led to the broken arm, so next time (outside the therapy) you could make a different choice that could avoid a broken arm.

I hope that helps clear things up a little bit...hopefully if I'm really botching it someone else will chime in.

SG

Another analogy I thought of would be thinking of relationships like you might think of dancing. You notice that when you dance with others, something always seems to go wrong. So you go to therapy to find out what it is exactly that you are doing. If your T dances with you, you won't know exactly what it is (that would be a re-enactment). So in holding the boundaries, he doesn't dance with you, but describes the steps he sees you trying to make (or that you tell him you want to make, because you can't act on some of the moves because of the boundaries) so you have the ability to learn to move differently. Instead of being your partner, he acts as your mirror.

This is my understanding of what I've read of this kind of therapy. There are lots of other kinds, though...including the kind where the T tells you what you should do and that's it. I've had that kind too and it was very helpful when I needed it. But this kind I think is supposed to help you see the stuff that's harder to see. But I also think it's a lot harder to do that kind of therapy...on both sides.

Again, I hope this helps...
SG

quote:

I'm sorry I said that. Of course I don't think you are pathetic! Somehow, when I read about other people having this exact same issue, I can be sympathetic and it makes complete sense to me that this happens. But for me, well I guess I hold myself to a different standard or something. I just don't need people like this. I don't fall hopelessly in love with anyone. I don't let myself depend on people or expect them to fill up the emptiness inside me, because eventually I just end up disappointed when they let me down.

Echo, please don't apologize. Of course I know you don't think I'm pathetic. And yes, it's very easy to see these things in other people but when it comes to ourselves, we are very harsh critics. We can be compassionate with other people but not with ourselves. People with our backgrounds have a really hard time absorbing compliments or believing the good things about ourselves. I described it to my T as having a Teflon coating and all the nice things he says and the compliments I get from anyone just slide right off and fall to the ground. They just don't stick.

As for your comment about being disappointed when people let us down... I used to fear this from my T. But what I have come to discover is that even when we disrupt or he does let me down, it does not kill or ruin the relationship. And he WILL let me down at times but we can talk about it and repair the disruption and it just makes our relationship stronger instead of ending it. I actually told him that I do expect him to disappoint me at times because the last time I checked we were both human but that I now realize we can discuss it and repair it and then we are better than ever. It took quite a while for me to get to this point as I would fear that if our relationship was not perfect, then it would be destroyed.

I am glad to see that you are writing about how you are feeling and what happened with your P and why you decided you needed to leave him. I'm sorry I did not realize that you had left him once before and then went back to try to work things out. After reading about what happened I can see why you became so fruatrated with him that you sort of gave up on trying to get through to him. My T practices eclectic therapy which is psychodynamic, interpersonal/relational, and CBT. I HATE when he starts to use the CBT stuff on me and this is when we get into our biggest disruptions. We are fine when he is in psychodynamic mode or when we do relational therapy. Aside from this, I am pretty sure CBT Ps/Ts do not have much if any experience with attachment and transference issues. John Briere, who is a brilliant trauma expert, once asked a CBT therapist how he handles erotic transference and the therapist looked at him and said "I DO NOT allow my patients to have erotic transference" which is very funny because you just can't prohibit something like this. Of course it's quite likely some of his patients had transference but knowing his views on it do you think any of them would ever admit it? I thought that was a pretty representative response of a CBT T to erotic transference. Like they can just banish it from their therapy rooms!!

In this case it may just be healthier for you to find a psychodynamic T to work with. Someone who will listen to your feelings and make you feel heard and understood and who is willing to follow your lead. I think your P was out of his depth and was fumbling around for a way to help you and he mistakenly thought that self-disclosure was the way to do it. But then what he did was to make it about him and his feelings and that effectively prevented your therapy to move forward.

I think it's great that you are writing so much as it will help you to clarify what happened and gives you the opportunity to receive the support that will help you get through this difficult time of transition in therapy.

TN

Echo :hug:

I am really glad you posted more of an explanation of what had been going on with your T it explained a lot. I can very much relate to the talk talk talk, the never quite managing to get an idea expressed without T cutting off and going onto tangents that had very little to do with what I was trying to say...

I'm rushing right now so only have time to post a quick comment (aren't you pleased lol)

That he is CBT based explains a lot to me - I think with the best will in the world CBT trained therapists can't help themselves that's how they've learned to help clients and from my experience of it, it seems to be diametrically opposed to the emotional stuff I for one know I need from therapy (and likeewise from what you are saying, you too.)

Lots more I'd like to say will have to wait till tonight, just wanted to post this quickly to give you a hug and support - keep posting your thoughts Echo I reckon it's really useful for you to sort through what you need and want from a therapist by relating to how it was with your ex-T, so you can use it as a gauge for when you meet your new T next week.

That's where I'm off to now in fact, a first appointment with potential new T. We shall see.

Lamplighter

quote:

I broke my arm. Let me show you how it happened." And then re-enacting the accident in his office and breaking the other arm. And then expecting him to fix both arms? This seems like an awfully painful way to get fixed!

You know echo that broken bone that healed not the way it should, needs to be broken again to heal correctly? Otherwise, you may never be able to use it.

So yeah, perhaps it has to be broken again, and it does hurt.

By the way, I may have similar relationship problem as you do, I can't write more now as I'm supposed to start work.
But I believe it would be best for me and for you to work out this stuff with a man (of course not your previous P).

I just got a voice mail from new T, wanting to know why I didn't show up for my appt today. My appointment isn't until next week. Great. Are we going to be off to a bad start already?! Sometimes I wonder if the entire west coast is flaky.

I'm just wondering, CBT therapists, do they do their own psychotherapy? I imagine you can't be a therapist without it, right?

Echo, well, I see that my comment and the same questions asked again, sent you on a big rant. I probably repeated same thing as well...

quote:

But for some reason it never lasted, and it didn't get easier for me. It got more difficult. I don't understand that. Maybe I have a hard time being accepted by someone, maybe I didn't really believe him, maybe I prefer for some reason to feel rejected... I don't know.

Yes, I know that feeling. Sometimes I do manage to open up a bit more (and it does hurt, it's really hard) and I always get a caring response which feels so great. So I hold on to it for as long as I can, but when it comes to go back and get more of it, I step back, and I can't quite go back to the same place we stopped and move further forward form it. Maybe I think I got enough for the moment and need to let him have a break? Hmm.. don't know.

To be honest when I started therapy I had a very vague idea about it, and my understanding of how it works was probably the closest to CBT. So, it was fools luck that I came across psychodynamic therapist straight away not even knowing about it. It is quite possible that all or nearly all therapists around here are psychodynamic, so perhaps I was safe anyway.

Anyway echo, I hope you will feel a whole world of a difference with somebody working in a different mode/approach.
It may hurt, but it works.

quote:

My H said that he feels like I have never really committed to our relationship. I have never opened up to him, never told him much of anything about my past. He said it feels like the first 25 years of my life are a huge mystery and he doesn't know what it is I'm hiding.

I remember my ex said something similar about me. Something about me not telling him imporant things. At some point in this relationship, I wanted so much to tell him all my life and all my feelings, but I didn't know how and I didn't know if that would be alright, acceptable for him. Later on when I was past that stage, I lost some connection with him, something was gone and I wasn't able to be open and be close to him.
I know that I'm doing perhaps similar thing with my T. There are things I don't tell him, because... I don't know.

I don't know what it would be like with a woman, could be different, but it is with a man I believe that it can go deeper and get scary perhaps, but it may/should work out, somewhere at the end.

Oh Echo. Just when you think things are going well along comes some gremlin and puts a bloody big spanner in the works. Not the best start with a new therapist, and I have to say if that happened to me I’d first freak out that I had got it wrong, then when that wasn’t the case I’d be sitting there getting really paranoid about what sort of T is this who can’t sort their own diary out and what does that tell me about them (all bad of course!)

Knowing that, and guessing that you are probably feeling just a tad doubtful - I’ll say that it’s not as bad as it seems. For a start she phoned to check where you were, which is a plus. You didn’t say whether you’d spoken to her, do you still have the appointment for next week? I am assuming yes so actually you’ve got the perfect opportunity to have a mini confrontation, a chance to tell her how it made you feel, something she had done, and depending on how she handles that you have a really good means of knowing pretty quickly whether she is going to be right for you or not.

That actually happened with one of the new Ts I was ‘interviewing’ this week - I was quite upset by her refusal to respond properly to my email to her on the grounds that it would have taken her too much time and as she has lots of people emailing her (as apparently I understood, did I? No I didn’t but if she says I did then I must have huh?) it was effectively lost money and anyway she very rarely gets appointments out of replying fully to emails etc. Hm. No I didn’t spend hours of my precious time putting the email together I didn’t expect a proper reply back so I could tell whether I was going to be wasting my time and forty quid on a no-hope therapist. Yes I was miffed big time and decided that was a great way to test her out, by telling her how upset by it I was, and to gauge how she handled a ‘criticism’ right at the beginning.

Actually I chickened out, but mainly because I already had a sense that she wasn’t right for me anyway. But it’s not a bad idea if you can be brave enough to try it out - using this mix up to your advantage.

Ok I’m not good on advice so should probably shut up. Just want you to know I truly sympathize and hope you aren’t feeling too defeated by it.

Lamplighter

Echo your ex-T really did bring his own stuff into sessions didn’t he! I can see why you chose to terminate as the things you’re explaining here would make me freak right out - and I so relate to your saying that you were made to always worry about hurting his feelings. To me a T has to be as solid as a rock (sorry for the cliché!) and strong enough in ego and sense of self to be able to take any and every criticism I might have about him - otherwise I end up monitoring not only what I say but what I actually FEEL so as not to upset him or hurt him or make him feel inadequate and that’s not only counterproductive but made me experience myself as bad and nasty for even having a criticism in the first place. Plus feeling like I had to be a ‘good’ client in order to help HIM!

From what you are saying I reckon you have really done the right thing in terminating, I’m just sorry you had such an attachment to him that made it so much more awful for you.

And it doesn’t help now not knowing where you stand with the appointment with your potential new T. I hope by now she has gotten back in touch to let you know what’s happening. Is there any way you can continue to get in touch with other potential Ts, just so you feel that you are doing something and not sitting there in excrutiating limbo waiting and waiting? Her cocking up your appointment must make you feel a lot less trusting of her so it might help you to know you have other options just in case she isn’t right for you. I so hope you can get a good new T really soon.

Lamplighter

Hi Echo,

I think T's generally understand that we are "trying them on" for the first few sessions, even if they don't come right out and say it. I'm guessing this because I never got charged for the one session I had with the T I saw before I found my current T, and also never got charged for the two sessions my husband and I had with a couples T we tried earlier this year. In both cases, they had all our insurance paperwork, but we never got a bill. And nothing was ever said explicitly at the beginning about "trying them on", and I never called back later to say I'm not coming back. Actually I suspect that this kind of thing happens more often than not. I remember when my husband and I went in for the second session with my former T, the first thing he said was, You came back! And that he took it as a compliment that we had decided to continue with him. So overall I think the "trying on" period is just assumed.

That said, I certainly don't think there's anything wrong at all with bringing it up directly. And all the questions you're having about both potential T's are good ones, and that's exactly the reason why the first few sessions are important for "trying on", so you can ask all your questions and explain what you are looking for in therapy, and then decide if you want to continue. I don't think there's any set number of sessions for making that decision, but if I have more misgivings than not after the first session or two, then I haven't gone back. My "gut feeling" is also very important. Not a real scientific method, I know...but so far it's been right. So it gets a big vote from now on.

I think it's good that you're "shopping around" for your new T. Spending time in therapy is a huge investment so it's worth it. I've wondered the same thing about "what does my insurance think" but in the end I haven't lost too much sleep over it, they probably see stranger things. I'll be looking forward to hearing how your sessions go for you with these two T's.

SG

Echo I’m glad you still have that appointment. It’s so confusing not having enough info about a prospective T to get a real handle on what they’re going to be like and that you are calling this one flaky says she’s already made a bit of a negative impact on you that will make you wary when you do meet her (have to say I too would have red alerts going off in my head if a T gets a first appointment wrong and then doesn’t respond until you’ve called her several times - what does that say about her attitude!)

I don’t know about the States but here all Ts seem to accept that clients shop around - (at least when you are paying privately, the NHS is different in that you don’t get a choice.) A lot of them offer a first session free with no obligation to commit as a kind of trial. Because I’ve done SO much shopping around I tend to be up front and say I am seeing a number of Ts can I get back to you in x amount of time. Or even, I’m not really sure about how I feel right now I need some time to think about making a second appointment could I phone you back about it? Stuff like that. And I check with every T that if I needed to, could I come back at a later date if things don’t work out for me. They are usually pretty good like that and welcome it.

Lately though I’ve simply booked up a second appointment and gone off to see other Ts anyway - at this point I don’t have a lot of available Ts left on my list and I don’t want to risk not getting an appointment if the other Ts aren’t suitable. I am also finding that one session isn’t enough to gauge whether a T is going to fit or not so I try my best to make sure I’ve got other Ts in the pipeline to see just in case.

If I’m seeing a T for the second or even third time and still seeing other prospective Ts at the same time, that’s when I don’t say anything - too chicken . But I think no T will happily commit to therapy if the client is also seeing another T - I even vaguely thought about doing that this time - setting up therapy with two different Ts and going with it for a while until I was more sure which one was the better for me (or neither, as the case inevitably turns out to be). But I think that can be confusing and cause more trouble than it’s worth.

It sounds like because of your insurance that kind of dual set up could be awkward - but maybe it’s worth your while thinking about paying privately for an initial session or two until you can find the right one?

That the second T is your friend’s next door neighbour - need not be a problem because Ts are bound by their own confidentiality agreement. I guess there might be a problem if you were round your friend’s house knowing your T lived right next door! But unless that really was a problem for you I wouldn’t discount her on that basis, especially if she turns out to be right for you. I would however tell her that right from the start, I shouldn’t think she would refuse you on those grounds. Hm that her usual therapy duration is 8 - 12 sessions yeah that does sound like CBT or brief solution based therapy - but maybe she is also capable of longer term therapy? Or maybe she is just so good that it only takes twelve weeks to sort everything out lol, that would be nice wouldn’t it.

I agree with Strummergirl that therapy is such a huge investment of all sorts of things and it really pays to shop around to find the right one.

Fingers crossed for you in this Echo.

Lamplighter

OK first I want to appologize for deleting a bunch of posts on this thread (and maybe some other threads, too). I know it wrecks the continuity of the discussion and must be really confusing for people when they try to figure out what is going on. I was just feeling exposed and like I was saying too much about my ex-P... being disloyal or gossipy or something. It seemed mean of me to badmouth him, after all the help he's given me, just because he's also human and made some mistakes and really pissed me off a little. Anyway, sorry I got cold feet and deleted all that stuff.

I met with new T for the second time today. She's nice, I like her, but I'm still on the fence with "is this going to go anywhere", and plus she's kinda spacey and disorganized, which can be distracting for me.

So today I told her the story of what happened with my previous therapist ("ex-P"), the basic story (for anyone who doesn't know) being: I developed a mad crush on him a year ago, told him about it, he reacted weird and made it all about him and his feelings, I quit therapy but then went back after a few months in an attempt to work it out (get over him), but it just stayed awkward and never went anywhere and I quit for good in April.

The telling of the story was embarrassing and humiliating, but not nearly as humiliating as it was trying to discuss it with him. She really seemed to get it. That this was all a fantasy and I didn't really intend to have an affair with him or anything like that, and that he had become the primary relationship in my life because I feel no connection or anything with my husband, etc. So my hope is that we can talk a little more about this and get to the What is Missing and What I Need and figure out a way to make that work for my life. So that's the update.

Hey Echo,

I understand about deleting the posts. Though I haven't done it (yet), I find that I often avoid re-reading anything I've posted, because 95% of the time, it irks me that I wrote it. I guess my stance is "if I just ignore it, it's not there." Ha!

I'm glad you had a good session with your new T. I have my 5th session with my new T on Friday, and it wasn't until last session that I knew I'd at least stick with her for a while. I keep trying not to think and compare how I feel about this T to how I felt about my last one, because it makes me feel insecure about this one. Maybe that is just because my last T was my first one ever. Even though I've had some good sessions and really feel like this T "gets" me, I feel so completely detached from her at this point that it feels like it's not having an impact. Of course, these things take time (sometimes I find it hard to be patient...), so we'll just have to see.

Anyway, I wrote all of that to pretty much say that I know how you feel when you say you are still on the fence about whether things will go anywhere with your new T. The doubt I felt for those first few weeks was pretty hard to tolerate, and it made me miserable at times. I am so glad that you were able to talk about your last T to someone who listened and heard what you were saying about it. Keep us updated, and I hope things with this T keep getting better!

Thanks, Monte. The week has been so busy that I haven't really thought about group, honestly. My head has felt foggy all week, though, and it's been hard for me to focus. Hopefully I won't forget to bring it up with my T! Oh, I would do that, wouldn't I? -sigh-