I just wanted to update even though it's only 3 hours later. I went to my spin class this morning. There was a part of me that really really wanted to call him and I told myself, oh, what the heck, you always hold back worrying about what people would think so just go ahead and call him and then let him worry about his reaction to my call.

I almost left him a message on the way to my spin class but decided to wait until after. And then, after it was over, just felt some contentment (endorphins?) and felt as though I could make it through the day without calling him.

Part of it also was that I was afraid to start the cycle over again, waiting for the phone call and then what if, for whatever reason, it didn't come. It was the only way I could stay in control.

I wanted reassurance from him. I had to rely on him for that but didn't get it, which sucked. Oh, and but I did self-soothe and I guess that's a good thing.

I just get confused about relationships. Okay, so I know that something he said or did made me feel bad. My feelings are my responsibility. This is going to happen all throughout life. Do we get to a point when we feel so secure with ourselves that when we feel someone move away from us it just doesn't throw us so much? And we don't interpret it as rejection or take it personally so much?

I don't know, it just seems all tied up with need. Maybe in my mind, if I don't feel those awful longings, those needy feelings, then it's not a real relationship? I equate those awful feelings with love maybe? But if I don't have that, then actually what is love? And what does it feel like? Suddenly, I just feel like he's my therapist and I'm not sure I love him anymore. Maybe that's a good thing?

Oh, sorry guys, just trying to work out all this shit in my head. Thank god for my spin class, that's all I have to say.

xoxox

Liese

Liese,
Has your T made it clear about what his boundaries are re calling him?....in the week and at weekends? I wonder if he has different contacts at different times. I could call T during the week if I really needed to, but wouldn't do so at the weekend, but would email instead. I wonder if when you do see him it would be worth talking about contact issues. If he says it is anytime then he must know how difficult that might be for you if you cannot get hold of him. If weeekends are different due to his need for some personal time, then it might be helpful for him to give you alternatives for when you have these difficult times ((Liese))) I so agree, phoning feels way more intusive than email or text. I save calling for dire emergencies for that reason I am sorry you don't have that option, but I guess if T says you can call, the you can call )

Also you not saying specifically that you wanted a call back and that you'd see him Monday, mighthave led him to believe you were having a hard time and needed to offload, but would be ok til your next session. Sometimes even Ts need things that seem so obvious to us, spelling out

I am really sorry you are having to carry these shame feelings. I know how debilitating that can be. Would it help to write a little about them, so you can hand that over or share it tomorrow?

Oh - I've just seen your update Am glad that the spin class helped ground a bit too. D olet us know how it goes tomorrow.

starfishy

Liese - Was trying to think what I would do. Sometimes I wish my T didn't do texting (he never responds to emails, just reads them and we talk in session), because I would never call. In between contact would then not be an issue at all for me like it is.

I'm glad you were able to have a good morning and self-soothe and don't feel the need to call anymore. I too would have worried about, "What if I still don't receive a response?" and knowing I would have a disproportionate reaction to it. For what it's worth, I think it was OK to call and OK to not call. However, I think it might be helpful to talk to your T in your session about what both of those options felt like to you, not so you can get direction on which is the "right" decision, but the complexities that it draws out for you about need and justification. Those prerequisites can inspire very intense reactions. For example, I don't know what time tomorrow's session is yet. We had to change our "usual" (still not regularly scheduled, grr) session time, because of my trip and so T is trying to figure out if he can get me a decent length evening session or if we will have to do our first daytime office session for several months. I had to wait until this morning before I felt justified in asking if he had an update on the schedule, because I need to plan all my pre-trip errands (like getting our vehicle checked out, shopping for stuff that is right next to T's office, etc.) planned out. In my case, I don't even feel like I can ask for things he should be doing anyway (giving me the schedule ahead of time) without an obvious need for that information. I don't know if you are the same about things, but some of what you say resonates with me in that way.

Yes, our feelings are our responsibility, but I think communicating about how peoples' actions trigger certain reactions is an important responsibility too!

Thank you starfishy and Yaku for you thoughtful responses. When I've called T during non-work hours, he's never told me not to. He's never explicitly said I could and never explicitly said I couldn't. Actually what I do is leave him a voicemail on the office phone. And, so I figured out, because he called me back, that he gets the messages at home. I suppose if he didn't want to offer weekend availability, he could have not called me back the first time and just told me on Monday that he's not available on weekends. But he didn't do that. And, as I said, he's never told me NOT to call him. He's also told me that he'd never get mad at me. But I guess that is part of what is holding me back - my fear that he'd be mad at me that I'm begging him for a response.

He's also told me to call him for support, to "use" his caring. That's exactly what he said. And, so that's what I kept thinking on Friday when I called. I thought he'd actually be proud of me that I was reaching out when I was in distress. Waaaa, and I thought I'd get some positive reinforcement.

I've told him how difficult it is for me sometimes to tell him things verbally and how much easier it would be if I could text or email him but he holds that boundary very firm and won't let me text or email. So his voicemail is my only option.

Yaku, not having a set time would be very hard for me and I'm sorry that you have to go through that all the time. And it sounds completely and totally justified and reasonable that you would need to know based on all the pre-trip planning you have to do. I wonder if that really is part of the process, though, in order to sort everything out so that we don't overburden other people? Just because we have a need, though, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be met or that a particular person is going to meet them. Then again, maybe these unmet childhood needs would be too much for any one person to meet, hence the reason we are in therapy.

Oh, I'm just going off on a tangent here and getting myself all confused.

In my bad moments, I picture T getting my message. Now, I think it was pretty clear I was in distress although I did open it all up with a joke sort of. But he could take it any way he wanted. I did way I was having a hard time and needed some UPR. There wasn't a direct request in there for a call back. And, so, if he got my message, he made a decision to err on the side of not calling back because he is annoyed with me for calling and thinks, oh, that bitch, won't she ever leave me alone? Or what if he said to himself, well, her tone of voice sounded good, but she indicated she was having a rough time and needed upr. She didn't directly ask for a call back and actually said, i'll see you on Monday. And, so I could go either way with this one. I could not call her back or I could call her back. And, then for him, if in fact out of session contact is still okay and he didn't really mind called me back, he'd have to decide what the implications of doing either would be for him and for me.

But if out of session contact is not okay anymore and he failed to tell me, then what???? Or if he just went away for the weekend and decided on his own not to forward his voicemails and he failed to tell me, then what???? Would it have been his responsibility to tell me that he changed the boundaries? Although, now that is after the fact and moot. Maybe less compelling than a boundary change, would it have been his responsibility to tell me that he wouldn't be available this weekend because he's going away? Would that be too much information to tell his clients? And maybe he just waits for the situation to come up? Do I just want rules to live by to make me feel better?

I know, I know, I feel like I am beating a dead horse here. Just trying to think it all through and decide if my anger is justified. I know it's probably not. Is anger and hurt and sadness ever justified???? I am so confused.

xoxoxo

Liese

Liese,

I think because you didn't ask for a call back, he may not have understood how distressing it was for you. When you asked for UPR, he may have heard that as a request for more UPR in your therapy sessions, as opposed to a phone call this weekend giving you that.

I think our Ts wait for us to as in clear and specific terms what we need from them, and when we are vague...they just give us space to either work it out on our own...or to get to a place where we are more clear about what we need from them. I think its partly them teaching us to be more assertive in getting our needs met as well as them making sure they aren't babying us if we aren't asking for that. They have to keep their own need to take care of us in check.

For example, sometimes my T doesn't know what I need because perhaps I havent' been clear enough...and she isn't sure if I'm wanting her to back off and give me space of if I'm just too afraid to ask for more x,y, or z. I realized that she was struggling with finding the right way to handle something recently when she texted me, "I want to respect your need for space if that is what you need....but I also want to extend a hand to the little survivor in you who may want my help." When I read that, I realized that wow, I guess I wasn't very clear with her about what I need and it must have posed a dilema for her about how to proceed. She was worried she was going to smother me by reaching out if it was space I was wanting, but it was a gamble she took because she was also wondering if I was needing her to reach out and help me. I had sent her mixed messages and it left her unsure of how to proceed.

So with this in mind, I would say that if you really need to talk to T before tomorrow, you should absolutely call him and leave a message stating that you need to touch base with him for 5 mins before your appt tomorrow. Be very specific about what you are asking for from him. Don't leave anything open to interpretation or misunderstanding.

However, (and this is just my opinion and take it for what its worth)....I don't think you really need to hear from him to get through the weekend. Your self-management of your emotions seem to be in full-effect and though it isn't easy and you are spinning with some rejection about not getting a callback, I think that intellectually, you know its because you didn't ask for a call back. Are you mad that he didn't call you back....or are you mad that he didn't read between the lines and figure out that he should call you back?

I do not think your anger is justified, but anger is really just a mask for other emotions...usually hurt and fear.....and I DO think that THOSE emotions are ABSOLUTELY justified. Of course you are hurt he didn't call you back. It feels like you aren't important, that he doesn't care that he left you spinning, etc. It absolutely makes sense that you would be feeling hurt and rejected and even scared that you could be in such a bad spot in need of UPR from your T and not get it. I mean, what if you were not able to manage these emotions...then what would happen when he didn't call you back? So all sorts of reasons to feel fear over that. But as i stated, I don't think you were clear with your T about why you were calling and what you needed from him and when you needed it. "I need UPR" is just the first part of asking for what you need. The second step would have been "I need UPR this weekend,I need reassurance so that I dont' have to sit with this all weekend. Can you please call me back"....Do you think had you said that, you would have gotten a call back?

I apologize if it sounds like I'm beating you up or placing blame on you. I do the same sort of stuff with my T and identify with so much of what you have written here. i think we have to learn to ask for what we need in more specific terms if we are going to get it. That is what they are teaching us, because many of us stopped asking for those things in our childhood when we learned that asking for those things didn't get us anywhere. Or, even if you've had a good childhood, we learn this in unhealthy relationships as adults....we ask for something but don't get it,so we stop asking. We have to relearn to ask for what we want. You are on the right track by asking for UPR...but I think you need to take it a step further.

There is also the possibility that I am WAYYYY off base and it could simply be that he is not near a phone. Maybe he went camping for the weekend and has no access to cell service. Or he went swimming and his cell phone was in his swimtrunks and got washed away with the ocean. or his dog died and he is in mourning. There could be a million reasons he hasn't called, and they are all FAR more likely than the possibility that he simply doesn't care about you.

in the meantime, I know you can get through this...look, you've already made it two days!!!!and you only have one more day to go. You are strong Liese and you can make it!! (((((Liese))))

(((((LG)))))

Thanks for the pep talk!! I didn't feel beaten up. To be honest, I had a similar situation happen this year with my son's teacher. I was really upset about something that she said at the end of the year. I was upset about what she said and also the fact that she waited until the end of the year to tell me. Of course, there was nothing I could do about the fact that she waited until the end of the year to tell me but I still did want more clarification on what it actually was that she told me.

But I got kind of wierd, not feeling justified about wanting to know, feeling like I was making a big deal out of stuff, etc. etc. and so I kept setting up appointments and cancelling them with her. I knew I wasn't being clear about what I wanted from her.. She finally called me and said point blank, I feel like you're mad at me. We wound up having a nice discussion and she told me what I wanted to know. If I hadn't talked to her, I'm not sure I would have ever gotten over my anger for her and so was glad we did talk.

I hate the fact that it's so hard to ask for things that are important to us. f

xoxo

Liese

Hi Liese... sorry you are struggling with not hearing back from your T.

A few things come to mind...such as this is a perfect opportunity to clarify the boundaries when you see him tomorrow. He needs to be more specific and to discuss what it means when you do NOT hear back from him. My T has told me that if I email and he does not respond in 24 hours then I need to email him again and say "hey where are you?" because he may have just missed the email. I have done this with him once and he apologized that he didn't realize I required a response. I have learned to make myself more clear as to what I need and expect from him and things have been much smoother. He also told me that if I call and leave a message on his office vm, then he will not hear it until Monday... so if I really need him I am to page him. He also tells me when I leave him on Thursday if he will be "around" over the weekend so I know if I can expect an email response or not in a timely manner. We have spent parts of many sessions discussing the contact policy. I have also learned that it is okay to be very blunt with him about what I need and when I do he tells me how proud or pleased he is with me that I can do that. Like you would do with a child. We never learned this as children and so we learn and practice it now. I remember one time I called him because I was having bad anxiety and I told him I just needed to hear his voice so an email would not have worked in that case. He was so thrilled that I could tell him that. We had a nice ten minute chat and I felt so much better.

My take on this is that your T simply did not think that you required a call back and that you were just telling him things ... perhaps so he would be prepared for the session on Monday. The second scenario is that he is just away for the weekend as it's summer and that is very likely and has not checked his vm's for a few days. Whatever the case may be... it's still grist for the mill and should be discussed.

I think you have done well with your coping skills and I think you need to keep in mind that things are fine with you and T. Whatever his reason for not calling you has nothing to do with YOU or that he is in any way angry or annoyed with you. I know that is hard to hold onto but try to.

Good luck tomorrow.

TN

(((((TN)))))

Thanks for the great response. He and I have never had a direct discussion about out of session contact. I just left him a voicemail once out of session and he called back. At the time, I had no idea if he would have gotten it or even when. And everytime since I've left him a voicemail, he's always called back within 45 minutes. He's never told me not to call him out of session and he's also told me he'd never get mad at me. And, as I said above, he's encouraged me to contact him when I need to.

He doesn't have a beeper that I know of. But you've given me some great things to talk to him about tomorrow. I managed to get through today and even had some fun - probably because I know I am going to see him tomorrow. Friday and Saturday were the hardest although I was traveling with the kids and that helped a little. If I had been home, I might not have coped so well and might have even placed a second call.

In any event, now is the time to clarify some issues and thanks for helping me think some things through. I am not angry anymore but I was at first. Now I just feel like a shit because I was angry at him. I mean, what if something really bad happened to him this weekend? I need to just trust in the relationship.

xoxoxo

Liese

Hi Liese,

I definitely agree that it seems essential that you are both clear as to what the boundaries are for out of session contact. My T always encourages me to contact her out of session but literally the two times I have done so (outside of scheduling) she, for random reasons, didn't get my call until the next day! Since your T has encouraged contact when you need it, I suspect that maybe he just didn't hear his phone or didn't see that he got a voicemail.

Anyway, I hope your session goes well tomorrow and that you're able to iron some things out. (((hugs)))

Thanks Kashley! I loved the hugs!!! Feeling good, feeling strong today. Not defensive.

Hey Liese,

Loved the way you explained your inner turmoil about the lack of a callback. You described my brain processes well - thankyou!

I have been thru this same turmoil - and I became angry about it and just churned and churned about it. Everyone has given awesome advice - talk to T and tell him how this episode has impacted you - it is about expectations, boundaries and setting ground rules.

Please don't "feel like shit" because you got angry - I was the same - hey our feelings are valid because they are all we have until we figure out a better way of coping or processing.

My T is point blank - if you need help out of hours call a Crisis Line or to emergency. They are very cut and dried and thick boundaries where I am.

I have rung the T's office during the middle of the night a couple of times asking for T to call me the next day. One of these I needed help and it was the very first time I had asked for help - T hadn't got the message and then made the office always pass on message from me ' no matter what ' . That made me feel important.

If I email her - she mostly acknowledges the email and writes something generic but never gets into any support via email just "we will discuss this next session".

To me my T's approach is all a bit too impersonal and inflexible.

But - I have MAJOR problem in asking for my needs to be met - and I am unlikely to ask for them under this system.

I would love to hear how you went. I wouldn't be able to broach this myself at the moment - I have a lot of delicate issues happening and this would be too hard for me. Good luck and sending you best wishes.

Hi Liese,

Just wondering how therapy went today and if you were able to talk to T about the contact boundaries. I hope he was able to ease your fears and help you to feel better and more secure.

Let us know when you can.

TN

Somedays,

Are you ready for a mindblower? Before I even got to his office, he turned to me and said, "thanks for the message over the weekend, that was nice." And I said, oh really? What was so nice about it? And he said, well you basically said that you were feeling better. And I said, no I didn't. Then T said, You did call on Friday morning, didn't you? and I said yes. And he said, you did say it was the center of my universe calling, didn't you? (our little joke) And I said, yes. And then he looked a little more relieved but when we talked about what I thought I said vs. what he heard, he felt really bad that he misinterpreted my obviously very ineffective message.

So, we never even got to the boundary discussion because it just didn't even seem like it was an issue.

I told him that what started the whole thing a comment he made toward the end of our session on Thursday. And that I felt ashamed and thought he was repulsed by me. He said he's never repulsed by me. He felt really positive about our session on Thursday and so when he got my message, I guess his mood re: my session affected what he heard in my message. Well, not only that, my tone was light and I ended the message with, I'll see you on Monday. I never asked him to call me back.

We talked about what he can do to make sure that doesn't happen again. That he gives me a lot of positive stuff at the end of the session when I leave so I know he's not repulsed by me if we talk about something difficult. At the end of the session, he was sat back in his chair, looking at me incredulously but mainly looking a little defeated? I asked him if he felt defeated and he said no but he's upset that we can be on two totally different planes. He obviously felt really bad about the miscommunications.

I am in such a wierd spot right now. I feel as though I can definitely make a concious choice to trust him from now on. We've been through enough together. I know he's there for me. (most of the time) And, so let's say that happens again, that I get upset about a comment he makes after a session when I start thinking about things. And let's say, now I am able to tell myself, well I am sure I am just reading into it and it's my history and crap making me think he's repulsed by me. And, all that negative crap that I'm so used to carrying around is just gone now? I just think it was taking up a tremendous amount of space in my life. But I don't have anything to replace it with yet. I don't even know what I'm going to talk about on Thursday. If everything is honky dory, that is.

I don't know. I'm just confused. And, I'm getting really tired of myself. I ruined my whole weekend.

(((Liese)))

I'm glad the you cleared up the miscommunication today but I can relate to being tired of yourself and not knowing what to talk about.

((((MONTE))))

I am definitely learning (or not) to be clearer in my communications the painful way. Just wondering why you see this as a boundary thing? Only because the out of session contact didn't seem to be an issue. Am I just still looking for where the relationship begins and ends? Because I can't pretend I'm the center of his universe anymore. That's way too painful to maintain. I am not the center of his universe. I'm just one of, to borrow from DF, 67,984,009,808 people in his life. And no matter how many times he tells me that I'm important to him or that our relationship is special, it just doesn't seem to be enough. I just don't know what I'm looking for or how to get it.

Thanks for the update Liese. I had a feeling he didn't understand your need to have a response from him. This has happened to me in the past and I have very definitely learned from it. When I now write to my T I ask him for what I need. I stop and think before I send that email.... what do I need from him. The email becomes less of a rant session and more focused on what he can do for me to make me feel better.

I don't really have this issue with phone calls because I beep him and then he calls me back. Hard to be ambiguous when sending a beep Even I can manage to do that.

Even though you didn't get to the boundaries (I still think you need to have that conversation so you won't get so upset next time you need contact) you did have a productive discussion. So now you can talk boundaries and contact on Thursday.... or you can talk about all the negative stuff that is taking up so much space inside of you and when it's not there what do you replace it with? Just some ideas.

Hang in there
TN

Thanks DF,

Sometimes I just feel like we just keep doing the same thing over and over. We chat. I get upset. We chat some more. I get upset again. I threaten to leave therapy. I come running back. I just can't do that part anymore. I am so tired of not trusting. Did I really say that?

I feel better tonight since my last post. (you gotta love those spin classes!) I felt like I got whacked in the head with a huge metal beam today. What, it didn't happen the way I remember?

Just wondering if anyone knows anything about splitting. I asked T today if I do that and he shook his head no and said something about that being too complicated. Of course, I am aware that I only see him as being a romantic figure or the most evil man in the universe. But I had pretty much chalked this up to the date rape and not to splitting.

In childhood, my mom and my sister were evil to me and my father and brother were good. And, so I didn't do splitting with one person but if I decided someone was evil, they were all evil and if I decided someone was good, they were all good. And with my father and brother, even though they were both "warmer" towards me than my sister and mother, they both did their share of damage to me as well, all of which I ignored because they were both "good". My mother on the other hand, while she may not win the warmth award of the month, probably had some good qualities that I failed to see because I hated her so much. I am wondering if this is some unusual form of splitting?

(((TN)))

I see we cross-posted. You are probably right in that I do need to ask him if it's okay because the thought of displeasing him by contacting him out of session did cause me anxiety. I had thought that since he never told me not to call, that it's okay but it would at least put that fear to rest, until another fear pops up.

Thanks for all the support. It's nice to get when things get stressful. I'm getting tired of the roller coaster. Glad you have been able to put things more into perspective with new T as far as the transference stuff is concerned.

Yeah I am blown away by all this. This entire thread over the past few days has helped me endlessly though - you people are saying all the words that I can't say and I am matching them to feelings I have that I can't label. I am benefitting from your collective expense! Thanks.

Liese - I cannot believe that your entire weekend's brain FART was because of a miscommunication. No way. All that exhausting thinking and mental energy, second guessing, catastrophising. Holy bum. Will you (and I) do it all again given the same circumstances - yep, probably. Until we learn to ask for what we want a little more and be a bit more clearer and learn the skills and trust that we need.

I am on step 1 of the 1000 steps. I had a grueling session built all around the theme of this thread. Asking for what I need.

(((((DF)))) Yes, all this up and down does get tiring. Thanks for understanding.

Somedays, glad it was all helpful to you. This stuff is so hard. I need to be clearer about what I need and want.


Monte, Yes I guess I do need to ask him directly because it was definitely one of the things I was beating myself up over. I really had just one question coming out of Thursdays session. Had I just called and said, I need to know what you meant by this so I don't spin out all weekend, my WHOLE entire weekend would have looked a lot different.

On the other hand, I'm guessing that all this anxiety in my life is serving some useful purpose that I don't quite understand. It's definitely acting as a barrier between me and the kids and my H and anyone else I come in contact with. This anxiety has become my companion, sadly.

But the good news is that I am done with feeling bad. I think I finally had that crack that Eckhardt Tolle had right before he sat on a park bench in a state of joy for two years. I don't think I'll go sit on a park bench for two years but I'm feeling such a sense of peace and calm since my session yesterday and I have this feeling that there is a part of me that just isn't going to allow that other part venture into those deep dark waters again. That part might try to go there but I have a stronger part now who is saying, What the heck? Why do that to yourself?

At least I'm hoping that is what will happen.

xoxoxo to everyone,

Liese

I just went back to my T who I was on a break from after he sent me to his female colleague. We talked about what happened at "the end." He told me that I put to much on him and he did not set good boundaries so he had a reaction formation. Not sure how that applies. He agreed that he did not realize just how desperate I was when I came to him. Now we have to set some new boundaries. His # priority is his family. I asked him to think about ways that we could be connected between sessions as well.

Wow Liese - sounds like you had a positive break. That is an inspiration.

This too happened to me in a previous bad depressive episode. I basically hit rock bottom and was sick of being depressed and just snapped. I was lucky that I snapped "to the good side". I was exhausted of it all. I then opened my brain to recovery. sounds all too good to be true.

That is why this episode is so bad - I had been waiting for that epiphany or whatever it was to snap me into getting better. It hasn't come yet. That dark side keeps pulling me.

Liese - I am so happy for you. Good on you.

NobleDaughter,

I am glad that you are back with the T you started with. I hope things go better this time. You handled the whole transfer to another T and back much better than I would have. I hope I'm not too much for my T. I've asked him point blank if I am and he reassures me I'm not but then again, it's always something to worry about. I do have to ask him about the out of session contact so at least I know one way or another.

SomeDays, I know I sound very enthusiastic but we'll see how long this snap lasts. I just hate torturing myself so much and for what? Even if he had all those negative thoughts about me in his head, then what? Then I'd leave and find another T. It wouldn't be the end of the world. I am sorry you can't find some relief from your pain.

Liese,
You don't sound like anyone I could be repulsed by. I love your posts. They make a difference in my life.

Thanks ND, That's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me in a while. I'm going to try to take that in.

Saw T again today. I clarified his out of session contact policy. He is absolutely fine with me calling him on weekends. And, so I could have saved myself a lot of stress by placing a second call. Silly me. He again told me he'd never get mad at me. There was a lot of other stuff that I haven't processed yet so I'm not going to post about it. But, feeling warm, fuzzy and connected today. Please let me stay this way.

Liese... I am very glad to hear this. Sometimes we suffer for no good reason but at least it spurred you to have this discussion with T and now you have clarification and some sense of security.

I wanted to add that I think you are doing good work and taking risks but I also think your T is getting up to speed on what you need, attachment and all that it involves. I wonder if he had some consultation or has done some reading. He seems more open lately to allowing that connection and relationship to form and grow to help you heal.

I hope you can keep that warm fuzzy feeling. I know how it feels and it's pretty wonderful.

Take care
TN

TN,

I tend to agree with you about him. I think my reaction when he went on vacation caused him to take a second look at things. Well he actually said as much. He said that he reflected on what I said and He could see how I felt what I felt and that he had seen himself as being one way, acting congruent with being a psychologist, and he didn't like to see himself as being insensitive ... That he knows he's a caring person but it wasn't coming across to me and he can see why

i had also told him about the consult and that she got why I was so upset by my last session before Vegas and so maybe the thought of being judged by a peer also made him take a second look.

I do get the feeling that he's either done some reading or gone on a consult. I do think most of the attachment stuff was in place already. I don't think he was afraid of it like oldt was. Because all along he's told me I can stay as long as I want, etc he seemed to know what I needed. It was just the final touch I think of him expressing that warmth more. He could have been holding back because of the male female dynamic, I'm close im age to him.

There was also some xountertransference going on because he was seeing me as being really fragile but wasn't looking into how he was contributing to me being fragile. And believe it or not he and I created this situation in which both of us was tiptoeing around the other, which was exactly the dynamic in my FOO. We tiptoed around my dad because he was fragile.

So really it's only been good stuff since his vacation. He's given me a ton of reassurance re our relationship, that he does care, that the relationship is important to him and is special to him, that he's in it for the long haul with me, etc etc and I am starting to really believe it and feel more secure. Maybe he felt those things before but he didn't express them. I think his Heart and head were in the right place it just wasn't coming across to me. I still have no doubt that he's smart. And I still like him a lot so I think it's all good and that the days of me not trusting him will soon be mostly behind him. And when I get scared I know I can reach out to him for reassurance.

It's like what your t said about t's being reluctant to talk about their feelings. And how could you work with someone for three plus years and not care for them? Maybe he Just decided to come clean.

I do think that you were picking up some really good stuff re him. So I so thank you for all your insights. I am just glad it had a positive outcome. I do think that he is willing to look at himself and he doesn't get defensive and he does really want to help me and is invested in me. I also think he has tighter boundaries than oldt. And I also get the sense that oldt was completely unaware of what he was getting from you.

He wants me to feel connected to him. He wants to be my secure base. There was just a little glitch in terms of me getting there. He knows I love him. Actually what I said was when you love someone so deeply, not Directly to him but in reference to a relationship that we were comparing to mine with him and I wound up losing that person. And so it's out there and he's okay with it and still wants me to be connected to him. I told him how scared I was to love again and to risk losing, that I know loss is a part of life but i've lost so much. I think I needed to learn to love again. I think I had shut down completely. And I am so grateful that I found him and that he's always been willing to work with me and not give up on me. The last t I saw gave up on me and the relationship just fiZLed out. Actually I think that t gave up on hjmslef. I am typing from my iPhone so if it doesn't make sense or there r a lot of typos
you will know why

it just feels good to be able to love him and for him to accept it and for it to be okay. Now on to the work, right? Now that the attachment is just about secure!

Thanks for asking tn. It's been a long hard road here and you guys have been amazing all along the way. It's just nice to feel some peace about the relationship.

Of course thinking about you this weekend and on into Monday. This is going to be huge for you. And hopefully healing.

Xoxoxoxo

liese

Lise I'm just catching up on some reading tonight, popping in to say hello. It's good to read that your therapy is heading in the right direction for you, that you are moving towards trusting more. I'm really glad for you. I think once you feel secure then you can really take off and do the work of therapy- then the good stuff will start to unfold without so much angst about the relationship.

You'll just keep growing and growing if the realtionship is good- I'm glad he's there for as long as you need him.

hugs, Liese,

BB

((((((BB)))))

thanks for your support. I know you are going through a lot right now. It's different for me not to feel immense fear for the first time in my life. I hope you can find it also with cowboy t. It might take time. But hopefully you will get there.

Xoxoxo

liese