Gosh I sound so whiney.. it’s just ever day I feel like it gets worse and worse. It was okay at first... I really didn’t feel that bad… but now somehow it just keeps growing. Ugh okay gotta do something else.

Hi Maclove .... Honey .... So sorry ... so sorry ... so sorry ... I don't know what else to say ..... Been there ... you are not alone .... you will find your voice ....

((((((((((Maclove))))))))))

I am very sorry to hear that you are in so much pain. IMO you do NOT sound "whiney". Yes, okay, you walked straight into it, you did this "willingly". But Maclove, can I please tell you, I've been through this same scenario with different details at least a dozen times (admittedly a long time ago, but still), and I can really understand the divided feeling that you describe. It felt intensely lonely in a very peculiar way...almost like I'd abandoned myself. At least that's the best way I can think of to describe it.

My "symptoms", if you want to call them that, were a bit different...I'm a bit reluctant to share them...but since you have been so brave to describe what you are going through, I will describe mine...what would happen is I would suddenly and unexpectedly start to sob upon "entry"...yeah, I know, a real mood-killer, except after the first guy (because I didn't know it was going to happen the first time) I could always hide it because he wasn't really looking anyway.

Maclove, I know that you are loathe to feel sorry for yourself. And I wouldn't encourage you to do that. But I do happen to believe you are deserving of compassion and understanding. I think we are all very complex beings, where sometimes we do things we don't really want to do 100%...because something else beneath the surface is driving us. And that is what I'm wondering here...what was driving you...was it just your body...or was it something more? I'm guessing it was more...and the consequences are kicking up some deep-seated feelings, and shame is the hardest of them IMO, that I think are important and need to be looked at...not to wallow, but as a signal that there is something very important to understand here...your heart must be deeply involved to have such a visceral reaction...and eventually, if you come to understand what happened better, maybe the benefit will be that next time, you will recognize when you are about to make a "divided" decision, and can make the choice sooner to make a decision where your heart, head, and body all agree...whatever that turns out to be.

I have not completely figured out a completely satisfactory explanation for my previous behavior and reaction. I have described it to all the therapists I've seen and none of them have offered much in the way of an explanation...one of them said it sounded like it was a trauma reaction (and then dropped it), and one of them said it sounded like it would feel "confusing" (and then dropped it). What I do know is, I stopped this behavior when I stopped drinking, more or less (not that I'm blaming drinking...and also not that I'm saying casual sex is always wrong...trying not to offend anyone here...I'm just saying, that's a big part of my story and what makes me feel like I've betrayed myself). Also, over time, I've realized that I learned at a very young age and through a very significant relationship that my value was measured in terms of the sex I could give. And then the person left me anyway, so I did not value myself at all. I would like to understand it better but don't know if I ever will.

I hope you can accept my compassion for you, Maclove...and I hope you can find some for yourself.

Big safe hugs for you,
SG

((Maclove))

I'm sorry you are in so much pain. I wish I could say something that would help you but I can't. I hope you can have some compassion for yourself. It is painful being so divided and feeling like your body and your mind are in disagreement. I have that feeling frequently during sex as well.

Maclove ... I just wanted to add that I am so glad you were able to talk to your T about it .... and also, in response to question above posed by strummergirl as to why we do these things to ourselves ... and I do believe I have read that it is a very common reaction after a sexual assault .....

After reading what Liese said...I just realized something I left out...my first experience with sex was one where I said yes initially, and then no, very clearly and repeatedly...but was not listened to...so technically it did feel like an assault...but as I had said yes initally, I didn't feel entitled to call it a true assault...so I pushed it down...but obviously it came back out in other ways. Thanks, Liese...and Mac, I'm glad, too, that you could talk to your T about this, and he was so attuned to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Maclove:
...something I did knowingly...

Well, kind of. Maybe you did it knowingly, but my guess is you really don't know why you felt compelled to do it. You're not aware of the reasons why yet because they're unconscious, and there are really, really good reason why they're buried.

In my opinion, our behavior is about 5% conscious. The rest - what compels us to do stuff - is totally below our level of awareness until we dig it up.

So, while I know it might be your natural response to thrash yourself for your actions, remember that there's another part of you - a very important and really, really, really strong part of you - that's actually in the driver's seat here. You - the conscious you - may very well be a passenger at this point.

Russ

Incognito- thank you for your understanding… just that does help.

Liese- I know I will find my voice.. or I least I really really hope I do.

Strummergirl-
Thank you for being so kind to me and thank you for sharing your story.

I don’t remember who I lost my virginity too, but if I had been sober enough to say no I’m sure I would have. You talked about not feeling entitled to call it a true assault… that’s exactly what I’m so confused and ashamed about with this.

At the beginning of the session my T went over everything that I told him on Tuesday, and he pointed out that I described everything very vividly, but then I completely skipped over the sex and all of a sudden I said I was in my car feeling dirty… he knows that’s not normal for me. after he said all that he said “I think he took advantage of you.” I couldn’t even look at him after he said that, I have no idea if he was even right.

I was the one who drove to where he lives… I went inside his shack… I sat down on the mattress type thing… but I also repeatedly said I no… I said flat out before he even touched me that I didn’t want to have sex since I felt like he might try something. He said okay. But then he just kept going... he may not have assaulted me but he definitely seduced me. he gave me a foot massage and then asked if he could just take off my pants so we could snuggle… and then it gets too graphic from there….


Russ,
I agree with everything you said, I know that it’s going to take a lot longer to uncover everything. I think my T tried to point out a few things… I couldn’t really hear him yet though.

Dear Mac,

I'm so deeply sorry that this happened to you. I say that while knowing that you are a strong, resilient, intelligent, perceptive and caring person who has the resources to recover beautifully from what happened to you here. I don't doubt that for a minute, and I also don't doubt that what did happen was very, very painful and upsetting.

It may sting to hear this, but I disagree that this was 100% your fault. Your 'no', when it came, under whatever circumstances, should have been respected. You didn't give up your free will, your right to choose, just because you went to this guy's place or engaged in some sexual activity with him. Your 'no' should have been respected. He did the wrong thing. I am pretty sure that if he had done the right thing, you wouldn't feel nearly as bad as you do now.

I applaud your strength and your desire to take responsibility for yourself and your health and happiness. That rings right through your post, loud and clear, and I've seen it in your other posts too. But this doesn't mean that it's your fault this guy disrespected your will and your rights. And it is deeply hurtful to be disrespected in such an intimate way.

So this is a wound, and it needs its own time and space. There's also the wound of feeling confused about what you want, and for whatever reasons feeling unable to make choices that feel safe and right to you. I actually don't think that's your fault either, but is a product of emotional circumstances you're not yet in control of - but which you have been working for a while, trying your best, to get in control of. These things, these wounds, don't make you a weaker person. They make you vulnerable right now. I believe it is both right and healthy that you feel hurt by this. Please find any way you can to take care of your vulnerability in this time, because that vulnerability is precious. Although it hurts like crazy right now, it is in the long run fundamental to being a caring human.

I want to just say something about the idea of the 'victim'. We tend to use 'victim' these days to mean someone who chooses to be stuck in hurt, out of weakness or masochism or something. But the word actually has a more simple, honourable meaning: someone who is harmed by another. We all experience situations where we are harmed by others, no matter how strong or evolved we get. You may not choose to hold onto that harm or to make it part of your identity. Just because you've been hurt doesn't mean you are tainted forever. No one can *make* you stay there. But it's okay to feel it when it's real.

I'm really glad you have your T to help right now. If what I'm saying doesn't help, just ignore it, and take it just as an expression of care. Be gentle with yourself.

Jones

Mac, I wrote the above without reading your previous post - so adjust as necessary if it seems ignorant of the details. ((((((Maclove))))))

Jones,

I had tears running down my face from the second line… don’t worry it was the good kind of cry! Some of the things that you said felt like something maybe my mom or dad could say to me if they would listen to me. Everything you said means so much to me, I wish I had the words to express it.

Careful, or you're gonna make me cry too, and I'm at work!

((((((((((Maclove)))))))))))

You're a sweetheart.

Maclove

Feel totally inadequate to say anything more than I am so so very sorry for all your deep hurt and pain, and send you many thoughts and a hug,

starfish

Mac,

I am so sorry that this happened to you. I agree with your T - you were taken advantage of. That one 'no' should have been enough. I do love all that Jones wrote to you, as well as all the others. I understand if you want to delete your first post, but I do hope you keep reaching out here to get some extra support, even if you must be vague in asking. The bottom line is that you're in pain. No other information is needed to offer you basic support.

Take care, Mac. ((((Mac))))

Maclove .... I have to share something with you .... From what I understand, and I could be wrong about this, but how we handle events in our life is determined by how we feel about what happened ... like for instance, I had my first sexual experience when I was 14 .... it was with my boyfriend at the time ... and we were going out for 6 months ... you know, 6 months is a long time at 14 ... I thought I loved him ... I thought we were going to get married .... so no, I don't think I feel bad about the sexual encounter ... (maybe I'm wrong, I haven't shared this with T yet) ...but I don't think I feel bad about it because it was in accordance with my values ... I was okay with premarital sex as long as it was with someone i loved ..... Yes, I realize now that I was young ... and it would probably be consider risky behavior by a T ... and there would be all kinds of explanations for why I would engage in that kind of behavior so young ... but I really don't think I feel bad about it ...

Now, then fast forward to age 19, with my sexual assault ... I did say no ... he did it anyway ... it was angry, i felt like i was being stabbed by a knife .... i knew i didn't love him .... so for a whole year, i cried by myself at night .... and blamed myself for letting things get to that point .... I was really looking for love, not sex .... and at some point, I stopped crying and realized that I didn't say yes ... and that whatever it was or wasn't, it certainly wasn't love ...

But I was sooooo mad at myself for being soooo needy ....... so for all these years, I haven't let myself FEEL need .... because it was too painful ... brought back too much shame ...

and yes, I did become a bit promiscuous afterward and I did drink a lot but in my mind, my promiscuity was curing the pain I felt from the assault .... so I don't feel bad about that either ... and I don't feel bad about the drinking either ... I don't drink much anymore .... but all of who I was back then isn't who I wanted to be .... I begged my father for attention ..... for love .... for him to believe in me .... and he couldn't .... and he couldn't because he didn't believe in himself .... and so, while, yes, it did have an effect on me then ..... I can't let his lack of self-confidence have an effect on me now ... I'm not going to let it maclove ...

so , i'm thinking that the reason you feel so bad is that a part of you really didn't want to be there .... and you have to try to figure out what you want and how to go about it ... and maybe you can talk to your T about it ... but in the meantime .... try not to beat yourself up too much ..... It's a confusing world out there and with all those reality shows, etc .... I can see how hard it would be to confuse sex with love and intimacy ....

I hope I don't sound too preachy ..... just trying to help ... from one who has been there ....

quote:

He also explained how I’ll need to forgive my body. My body enjoyed it while my head and my heart were screaming no.

quote:

MacLove, it sounds like an awful place your in now. Being trapped in your own body- which reminds you of this.. Its really i terrible feeling you are describing. I can so relate (unfortunatley) to the way you described the need to wash and clean yourself and everything around you, in order to "wash away the shame"...I think its a classic "sulotion" to thistype of problem. Your T sounds wise, this quote express this very good. Listen to him carefully, espescially when the hardest moments strikes in and you start blaming youself.

I also wanto add; that your body will NOT feel so dirty forever, it will become your "friend" again, and you should not try too hard run away from it, as if its your body that are the problem- your body is good, and its yours and you should- like your T wisely said IMP- forgive it. Give it back its true value. Sorry if this sounds just off here, i do understand and relate to all the feelings and coping mechanism you are describing here..maybe it helps knowing that this will go over- that you body will feel safe and good again (to be "In"). Seems like you are on your way though, processing this, dealing with this, when talking to your T about this..sure its shameful to speak about, but indeed it will be for the better. Your T seem like someone whom will be able to help you with this, so that the shame will fade away, and go back where it belongs. Not with you and your body.

Take very good care of your self, and stop blaming yourself.. be as good as you can with yourself, both physically and mentally.

Kashley, starfish, liese, frog,

I wanted to say thank you for your responses… it’s really amazing, and I wish I could respond but I don’t have the words right now.. And thank you for sharing your story, Liese. You have all given me a lot to think about.

Maclove ... Keep us posted when you are ready .... in the meantime, take care of yourself ... take a hot bath ... wrap yourself in a warm bathrobe .... watch a comedy ... and feel safe and warm ....

MacLove, I just wanted to tell you, I am thinking of you with care. I'm having a hard time finding words. You are precious, that's really all I can say, I guess. I am so glad that Jones has said what she did to you, and that's really all I can say- the same. Your experience is so heartbreaking that all I can really do is send you gentle hugs, and say that I am glad that you have turned to us for some support right now. I am very glad you have your T. We care, too.

Love,

BB

Mac... I'm not in a place to offer anything uplifting or insightful but I wanted you to know I was thinking of you and that you need to be kind to yourself. You are a good and worthy person and I hate that you are suffering over this. It took a lot of courage to write that post and I hope you find some peace in all the supportive responses and it somehow helps you.

Warm thoughts and hugs
TN

Bb,
I’m so glad I posted this here too; it feels amazing to actually get responses, with feeling like even my journal would be so disgusted it would get up and runaway, but then getting all these wonderful responses is so healing.

Rio, thank you for your support and kind words. I guess it did take strength to share this, even though I felt like I was being weak.

TN, thank you so much, just your support really means a lot.

And liese, those are great suggestions, thank you.

Thinking of you. (((hugs)))

Thinking of you today Maclove. Hope you are taking it slow and easy.

love,
Jones

thank you dragonfly, strm, and jones.

I think i did okay today, considering that I had a couple disappointments. One was that a couple weeks ago my ex contacted me saying he wants to try and work things out and I was beyond thrilled because i still like him very very much. He asked me to come over to his house last saturday, and somehow, even with all the pain I was in, I knew it wasn’t a good idea and I asked him to meet me at a coffee shop instead. He said something was wrong with his car and asked if we could reschedule for Friday. Yesterday I texted him and asked if he still wants to meet up tomorrow and I haven’t heard from him sense. Very very disappointing and I really had hope that it was going to work out. I’ve listened to my session three times now.. it’s nice.. I feel really bad for that girl who’s so sad and I don’t believe any of the lies I told myself when I listen… I also don’t feel the same shame when I’m just listening. And I got to take a nap. That was nice.

Mac .... I'm so glad you are not listening to any of the lies .... It was so awesome that you told your ex you'd meet at a coffee shop instead of his house .... that shows so much strength ....

Glad you had an okay day .... lots of hugs to you this weekend .....

MAC,
I'm so sorry to hear what happened to you. I have to agree with the others that "NO" means "NO". I also admire your courage to post how you are feeling. Be gentle with yourself and know we are are here to help you through this. Take care

PG

Thank you Liese and Preppie Girl.

Today was a very good day because I adopted a little baby hairless rat!! She's adorable (I know, most people would say she's ugly.....) and very sweet and whenever I pick her up she hurries to cuddle up in my arm. She's a huge pick me up!!!!

Ahhhh, a hairless rat ... hmmmm ... I had a friend with lots of allergies and she had all kinds of rats as pets .... Intersting pets ... what's her name?

No name yet... I'm still thinking.. I just know it's going to be a name from the Harry Potter books/movies.

Dear Mac,

LOVE the sound of the rat! I'm a wee bit jealous - I can't have a pet at the moment and it's driving me crazy, so you'll have to extra-enjoy this wee girl for me. I think you did a great thing with giving your ex the counter-offer of meeting at a coffee-shop. I'm sorry he flaked out on you - it's really disappointing when you wanted to work things out with him. But I also think you did a great job of protecting yourself there - maybe this is showing some confusion or unreliability or ambivalence in him that it would be harder to see if you'd gone over to him when he asked. You deserve someone who will give you more than that, I reckon. Still hurts though, I know.

Take care of that sweet rat!


(((((Maclove)))))

J

thank you for all your encouragments Jones, you are really amazing. I've been enjoying my new rattie all morning, while also enjoying the snow storm!! Her name is Nymphadora, after Nymphadora Tonks Lupin from the Harry Potter books. I mainly call her Nymph or Nymphie. Again THANK YOU all for your support.

I hope that rat will live up to the name