social issues

lieseMember

This is to all of you who think I am a compassionate person. My anger and immaturity comes out in this post but I really need help sorting through this.

I am a social idiot and have tended to isolate myself as a result. I think I isolate myself because I hit these "anger" zones and can't deal with my anger. But in preparing for my reentry into the work force, I realize I have to work out my issues to some degree before I get back there.

A situation came up today that got me so angry that I thought I was going to burst. I thought to myself, I'm not going to be able to handle this.

So, what I am wondering is if you all can help me think this through, from why I got so angry to what I should have done, if there is a right answer.

My daughter, Shannon, 12 years old, was on the school tennis team. It's over now but one of her teammates is having an end of the year party tonight. Shannon's friend Elizabeth, also on the tennis team, lives around the corner from us. Elizabeth's mother is out of the country celebrating her 25th anniversary with her H and was left in the care of her 17 year old brother.

The party is being held 3 miles west of where we live. I called Elizabeth to ask if she needed a ride because I knew her mother was out of the country. When I spoke to her mother the other day, her mother wasn't sure if Elizabeth was going to the party because she was thinking of sending her to her sister's house for the weekend.

Elizabeth tells me that Jackie's mother is coming to pick her up but that she will check and let me know. Jackie's mother lives 2 miles west of us and much closer to where the party is being held.

So round trip both ways, Jackie's mother will be driving 8 miles out of her way to drive Elizabeth to the party.

Elizabeth sends me a lovely little text, oh, yes, they are picking me up and said it's no problem.

And I was just fuming. I'm fuming because I'm thinking she's a conniving little b**ch, arranging a ride for herself that suits herself and she couldn't care less that my daughter would be going alone and that these people are driving 8 miles out of there way to get her and then being just around the corner from us and not picking up my daughter just because their daughter right now is the flavor of the month. (I don't know if Jackie's parents know we live around the corner from Elizabeth. They are very nice people who I'm sure if they knew we lived around the corner, would offer to pick my daughter up.) And here I was, going out of my way to check in on her so that she could go to the party.

I waited a little while to try to calm down and thought that this is the typical situation I would find myself, where someone is leaving me out because they want exclusivity with someone else. I just felt as though I should ignore this little girls preferences and point out the obvious, that we live around the corner, and that I can drive, pick Jackie up as well, and all the girls can go together and NOT let this little 12 year old girl manipulate the situation.

So, I put aside my rage and sent her a nice little text, saying, oh that's ridiculous, don't make them drive out of their way. I will pick everyone up and you can all go together.

And then I wasn't sure I did the right thing. My daughter didn't even seem to care when I told her Elizabeth had a ride with Jackie. The issue was mine. So then I actually got a phone call from Shannon, telling me that she has a carpool with someone else. So I texted Elizabeth and told her that let's leave everything the way it was because Shannon made other plans.

I know my anger (rage) was misplaced but for the life of me, I don't know how I should have handled this situation. My T tells me I need to be more assertive and that my anger will protect me but I don't know how to use it productively. I certainly don't want to alienate people but I also don't want to get pushed around. As I am learning, people often take care of themselves and I need to take care of myself and teach my daughter how to take care of herself. Should I have just let it go from the beginning? Was I right to interfere?

I know this probably all sounds stupid and petty but I'm just wondering how other people would have handled it. It's my emotions that trip me up and because I avoid my emotions, I avoid people, making for a very isolated life.

Thanks for any advice,

xoxo

Liese

11/5/112:52 PM

❤️ 0

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

lieseMember

Hey Df,

No, you are totally right. I know my reaction was about me. And of course, my mother taught me to take care of everyone else first and not myself. And to expect some kind of reciprocal thing going on and that others will take care of me. But the world doesn't work that way. It's an old habit. And it dies hard.

And you are right, Elizabeth probably didn't even think about the distance when accepting the ride. They probably offered and she accepted. Beginning and end of story. You are so lucky you never feel like people have agendas against you. It's a good thing.

I think I've kind of organized my world around this stuff and I don't know how to unorganize it and not take things personally. If nothing is personal, then what? I don't really know what I'm trying to say. I don't know where my anger fits in because T says it's important. But maybe it's important in terms of what need isn't being met in me, rather than what the other person is doing wrong.

The world just revolves without me. I see hom unimportant I really am. All these people out there living their lives. I just don't know if I can handle all the emotions that will come up when I try to find my way, try to fit in. I don't know what I'm saying except that I feel really confused.

11/5/115:25 PM

❤️ 0

havecourageMember

Hi Liese.
I think you had every right to feel angry and upset with Elizabeth! Your main feelings at the time were worrying that someone else was driving out of their way to the party and that your daughter would be going to the party on her own and for any caring parent your instintive and very natural protective response would be ANGER!I really don't believe you did anything wrong. It does not sound stupid or immature. It does not sound like you went balistic on the phone or with your texts, or were rude in any way,it sounds like you were just trying to solve a problem and make it easier for everyone involved. Don't isolate yourself anymore because of this. I think you could, and have every right, in a nice, jokey fashion, tell the people involved that you felt a little upset because you felt uncomfortable with your daughter at 12 going to a party on her own. Let it be known, if you have the opportunity.., you sound like a great person and i think if you handle it politely but positively, you will find that the people involved will actually AGREE with you. Good luck, be good to yourself and don't let the bad dog win this fight! take care.

11/5/115:26 PM

❤️ 0

ravenMember

Liese,
I can relate....for me I call it getting worked up over simple things. My feelings get hurt and I get angry over what I judge to be minuscule things. I start feeling very unimportant and like others have an agenda. It's odd, because often when serious things arise, I become numb and will hardly have emotion at all.

11/5/116:18 PM

❤️ 0

quellMember

Hi Liese,

This reminds me a little of me in some ways. I get frustrated and irritated with people, especially with things like plans. I tend to take some things personally, and often I get mad because people don’t follow through with things or follow up on things and basically are not as thoughtful about doing the right thing as I think I am (yeah, there’s a set-up!). But, it turns out that the things I think people should be thoughtful and reasonable about are not the same things others think are most important to be thoughtful and reasonable about.

I also get miffed when I realize that other people have wants and know what they are, and I discover that they are working towards getting what they want. Yeah, so if my sister-in-law invites me to lunch near me and then asks me to suggest a place to go, and I do, and then somehow at the end of the conversation I realize that we are going to the place she wanted to go to all along, I think “Why did she even ask me if she was just going to spend time steering me to where she wanted to go?” Hell, if she had just told me where she wanted to go to begin with, I probably wouldn’t have cared in the least. So why did she have to do the dance first? Why bother manipulating me about something so dumb? I don’t know.

I also remember telling my T about getting all pissed off about a woman who was supposed to email me with confirmation that I had been accepted to be a mentor in a program for high school kids. I got really mad about waiting and waiting for the message and her not writing to let me know. When I tried to track down why I got so mad, I realized that it made me feel like I didn’t matter, even if rationally, I probably shouldn’t have mattered much to that woman. I went all off on some mental rant about how I’m not important because I’m not powerful, and so on. It was all my stuff. So one day my T says “Do you really think people are thinking about things as much as you? People aren’t even conscious about most of the things they do.” I was crushed, stunned. I couldn’t believe it, and I really didn’t believe it. I said slowly, “Well, if that’s true, then I am on the wrong planet!”

I’m often looking for things that will justify my feelings and I’m often wanting my feelings to make sense. If they don’t make sense, I think that it’s somehow not fair to have them, like I’m wrong or bad. I’m still working on the idea that it’s OK to have them, however they are. They don’t always make sense in the typical, rational, public way, but they might make sense because of our experiences. And they are real and valid, and they feel real and valid in the way DF talked about. They're what we have to work with.

I’m important and you’re important and we’re all working on handling the emotions that come up when we try to find our way. You’re not alone.

Quell

11/5/117:22 PM

❤️ 0

lieseMember

DF, Raven, Quell,

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me. My daughter came home from the party and it turns out she WAS upset by the whole thing. Even my 17 year old was upset about it and got why Shannon would be upset.

Shannon has been friends with Elizabeth for a really long time. They've actually never been in class together but they are always on the same bus. And, so, they've both gone their separate ways, made other friends and then come back together again. They are almost like a safety net for each other.

Elizabeth, I think, is charasmatic and seems to make new friends easily. She usually attaches to one person and dominates that person and won't, for instance, let my daughter sit with them on the bus.

Shannon told me that Elizabeth hooked up with Jackie during tennis and she often felt excluded. Elizabeth just seems to be the type who always takes care of herself (wouldn't the T's love her????) always has something going on, and would never really give thought to the fact that she might be hurting other people's feelings.

Shannon also likes Jackie and it's always inconceivable to me that the three of them can't be friends.

There have been times over the years when I really wished Shannon wouldn't be her friend anymore but I do try to look at it as a maturity thing. That Elizabeth is just acting out of her wants and really not thinking about anyone else.

And, in some ways, Elizabeth has been a good friend.

I know it's all about accepting Elizabeth the way she is, Shannon learning to speak up for herself, etc. etc. And, I guess that there different levels of closeness, different types of relationships. They are almost like AF's for each other. And, Elizabeth is going out to explore. And Shannon has to learn something but I'm not sure what it is.

xoxo

Liese

11/6/114:11 AM

❤️ 0

sdMember

Ok Liese. This is complex. I had my answer ready for you - but then as I got to the bottom and saw the postscript - I have changed my mind.

a) This anger you had and the scenario - all sounds normal to me

Except i would feel like killing someone to deal with my anger. I go from A to Z quickly and cannot deal with it. If I feel that an injustice has been done in this world - and THEN to one of my children - I will EXPLODE.

b) 12 yo girls - can be so bitchy and if the other parents aren't 'with it' and know the social nuances and this week's issues with the girls - then the other parents are very problematic also. Other parent's also think their daughters are perfect.

So the anger that you felt - sorry can't help you there. When you get the answer, pls tell me.

The teenage daughter bit. I have experience in. I have always discussed these situations with my daughter and told her how things affect me - and i have got her to explain her feelings to me. If the situation was crappy - I would say "things didn't work out how I wanted them to work out or how they should work out - what could we have done differently?" and i would always say that - we cannot control what x or z does or says. Doing this has meant that my daughter talks to me about most things and asks me my opinion on things. I feel honoured.

Your instincts were right Liese - as both your kids were unhappy about what happened - it was good they told you , but sorry that it happened inthe first place. Other children can be so unthoughtful about other kids and quick to satisfy their own desires - ie by Elizabeth just thinking of herself and Jackie.

The other thought that has been triggered by this has happened to me so many times.

I will have a scenario in my head = and I will think of plans where I will help out this person by doing something etc and have it all planned out. But I won't have told that person - I will just pitch the idea - and they say no or they have made other plans. This is like pricking a hole in my perfect balloon of life - this kills me. NOw this other person has no idea that I have spent hours planning this and have gone out of my way - and I am left with such disappointment - but I caused it and did it to myself. Things didn't go to MY plan.

Liese I am not suggesting you did that in this case - but just wanted to share this character trait of mine that was triggered by the post.

11/6/116:45 AM

❤️ 0

lieseMember

Hi SomeDays,

Thanks for your support and validation. I never know whether to ignore the underlying, would you call it aggression?, emotions - that Elizabeth prefers Jackie - and do what I first did, tell her that it was stupid for Jackie's family to come out of their way and I'd pick everyone up, and therefore teach Elizabeth that everyone should be included and it's not nice to do this exclusivity thing?

Or, just have Shannon make her own plans, as she wound up doing.

Shannon feels slighted by this girl, at tennis and last night .. but I also think Shannon might get too dependenct on one person. Not sure. How does it happen that when you really like someone and you are happy being their friend, and then they go on and make other friends? Is it just the attention from this person that feels good? I just keep wondering how do I help her become more resilient? How do I help her initiate more? How do I help prevent her from having a life like mine?

11/6/118:30 AM

❤️ 0

incognitoMember

Hi Liese,

I think my thoughts change quite a bit when you find out that your daughter was upset too so I wasn't just your problem. I think what you can do is empathize with your daughter's feelings. It is awful to feel like a friend likes someone else better or excluding you. The refusing to let your daughter sit with them on the bus is the (in my opinion) most difficult thing that you've talked about because it is a clear exclusion instead of just her not thinking of others.

At another time when she isn't so upset or at least after you've heard and understood all her feelings I would try and talk about relationships in general. I try to explain that relationships and people and how they approach them can be quite different without it meaning that someone doesn't like or care for you. I often use examples from my own life even current friendships because I want my daughters to understand that relationships take work and there is always more than one way to see things. That bitchy teenage girl behaviour is definitely worse at 12 but some people don't grow out of it. Also even with the best intentions sometimes we hurt each others feelings so I talk about that.

Lastly and the most difficult thing is to discuss the fact that some people can't or won't be friends the way you might like and how that isn't your fault and the only solution is changing the friendship so you don't depend on them for things that you know historically they aren't good at providing. It is hard to do for me so I just talk about it. I don't think you can force that.

11/6/1111:32 AM

❤️ 0

sdMember

Liese - The only way I can think of to help your children become more resilient - is to expose them to a variety of tough and not so tough life situations and let them explore them to their comfort levels. When they get confused or distressed - be there as a guide and for someone to discuss their confusion with. Resilience is something we learn from within and from our own experiences. Shielding our kids from stress, hurt and painful situations - doesn't help them cope. Explain situations to them and give them a range of possible solutions and let them choose their path.

I always think that by the time our kids get to be teenagers - they now belong to society - ie we are no longer their central focus in life - everyone else and everything else is more important than us. We can only hope that all the good stuff we have given our children for the 12 years up to that point has "stuck" and that the kids now make sensible decisions. They have a sound foundation to their life, ethics, personality etc but they will stuff up, and we will guide them on a better path.

Teenage girls especially - go off into the ether for a couple of years - i call it going to the dark side. Usually by 16 our teenage girls return to us - but we have to weather that storm for 2 or 3 years. A horrible time for everyone.

Now I have a catch all situation for each of my children - to fix things when I can't and to reverse any damage that my parenting has done

Gift Vouchers for my children for their 21st - for ..... therapy.

my teenager is already seeing a psych - not for any particular problem - but for someone external to her life (and me) and someone she can rely on and can talk to. I wish I had had that. I am sure I wouldn't be in the mess I am in now.

Just keep doing what you are doing Liese. Keep the communication channels open, keep the kids talking.

11/7/118:22 AM

❤️ 0

lieseMember

INCOGNITO, BG and SD,

Thanks for your input. I don't know where my problem is or where I get confused. I talked about it with T and he thought that the way I handled it first with Elizabeth by texting her and telling her I would pick everyone up because it made the most sense was the best idea. I guess it's the undercurrent stuff that gets to me and I fall prey to. Even though this was about my daughter, I don't think I have my own issues straightened out in this area and always feel like I either always overreact and go into helpless and powerless mode and feel controlled by these situations. And then I'm not sure I'm being effective in terms of helping her deal with it.

I want her to recognize when someone isn't treating her right and be able to take in the whole picture and not rationalize it all away by saying, she treats me like she treats her family (like shit) and take it as a compliment. This friend isn't always so nice and often puts herself first. I am still working on it all. This social stuff baffles me.

Thank you for your replies. It was all helpful.

xoxo

Liese

11/8/111:09 PM

❤️ 0

ladygreyMember

Liese,

For what its worth, I do not think you are overacting to this. Sounds to me like you are just being a good mom.

However, I think you are right that although this was about your daughter, there are deeper issues that pertain to your own unresolved issues that were affecting your reaction/emotions. Perhaps your own feelings of powerlessness are causing you to be overly-protective of your daughter. Nevertheless, I think its sweet that you are so protective of your daughter. You sound like a good mom and your daughter is lucky to have such a caring and concerned mother.

11/8/118:26 PM

❤️ 0

lieseMember

Hi LG,

Thanks so much for your supportive words. They mean a lot. I can't wait until I process all this emotional stuff and I don't react so strongly anymore.

BB, I saw your beautiful and insightful PM and am wishing you didn't delete it. I really wanted to think about what you said and give a thoughtful reply back but can't now because it's gone.