Hi Rock ~

hmmm... I don't know if I have much input that is useful, but here's my two cents:

Let me preface this by saying I have "anger issues" of my own and a hard time trusting T's so I may be speaking out of a lot of my own stuff here. Please feel free to disregard anything I write. It's just some thoughts...

My first impression is that your T has crummy boundaries and that's not helpful when trying to learn better ways to manage anger or frustration. It can be a source of frustration and anger in and of itself. My T and I were recently talking about how some Ts can help a client work on anger and deal with it, some Ts can't. Just like some Ts are good at treating trauma issues or depression or ecterta, while other Ts are better at treating other things.

I have found that in order for me to learn how to deal with and resolve anger or frustration, even deeply rooted anger, and do so in healthy ways, it's essential for me to have a T that has good boundaries (and is respectful of my own.) You might have a T that just simply isn't good at helping with anger and doesn't have good boundaries of her own. She might just not be the right fit for what you need right now in therapy. (OR it could be true that some really deep issues or transference stuff is coming to surface and this might be a good relationship to work them out in... but I'm absolutely terrible at sorting out when that might be the case.)

Your T said, "why am i supposed to call him? why is he not calling me?" (warning: I think I am taking out my soap box to stand on here...) This confusing for me when doctors/Ts don't consult with each other because they are stuck on who is calling whom. Why isn't the doctor calling her? Why isn't she calling the doctor? isn't the point for them to communicate with each other? for the sake of figuring out what is theraputically best for you? who cares who calls who?! (ok, I'll put my soapbox away now. ) When this kind of stuff comes up, the real issue is RARELY about who calls who - and I think you and your T both think that there's much more going on here than just who contacts whom...

You wrote, "so i think what is going on is that when i told her to call this other T, i said it, in a way that was patronizing to her....so she felt the need to stand up for herself. i became enraged because i felt this was not necessary for her to do and i also didnt know i was devaluing her."

Let me say really clearly that before I write a little about what I have learned that is helpful in therapy for me when dealing with anger or frustration, it doesn't sound like what you said was devaluing or patronizing at all! It's just my perspective... I just have a hard time as seeing what you share here as being something she should feel defensive about. I think a therapist who is secure in themselves, and has good boundaries of their own, would respond with something like, "I'll call them and talk with them about how to best help you and if it's in your best interest if we continue working together or not" ...OR she could at least explain that she isn't going to call because she is busy or she feels more comfortable if they call her (and thus at least she would own her own stuff about who calls whom. )

AND, if you were being condescending about how you asked her to contact him, (again, it doesn't seem like you were) then she should say something about that while also letting go of who is calling who. But she goes on with it and gets into clarifying (?) who is consulting whom, instead of pointing out that the WAY you were asking her to do something was comming across as devaluing and condecening. It doesn't seem like she moving into identifying what you are angry about and if/how you can solve it and work together.

At the same time, it also seems like there is confusion about what her role is (?) Your T said that "if we are going to have a relationship..." First of all, even if you are seeing her again after taking a break, if you are having mulitiple sessions with her, you have A relationship. I don't know if she maybe was posing it as "if we are going to continue to have a relationship..." but it just feels unclear an confusing to me. Maybe you two are figuring out if you can move forward in the relationship, and need to define that realy clearly what her role is as you work that out...

The way she phrases the problem with HOW you were expressing your anger feels invalidating to me and such invalidation can tend to make it harder to resolve the orginial frustration itself. It feels almost passive agressive for her to say "you can berate me all you want..." Like saying "you can be mean to me all you want but you have to decide if being mean is helpful to you..." um, it's clearly not helpful for you and her or ANYONE in any therapy if you were being mean or being berating. If you are attacking and devaluing her, especially enough for her to be so quickly defensive of herself, then it seems super important to talk about WHY you are being that way, and what you do that she is so defensive about. You clearly know it's not working, not good for you to be "enraged," and you don't intend to communicate with her in a way where she feels devalued... but even if things get that way, if you already had all the tools and insight to do change and "just be nice," you might not be in therapy in the first place.

It seems like you are trying to identify what is the problem - what boundary or value or need or want you feel like is not getting met, that you are trying to figure out what's going on for you that you are getting so frustrated with her. Of course just tearing her apart is not good, but honestly, it doesn't sound like you are doing that in this interaction and if all the anger came across in your tone, or in pprevious interactions, then that is certainly something to work on.

Both hostility and "rage" avoid effective problem solving. My T says that anger is something that tells us a boundary has been crossed or need or a want has not been met. She has the perspective that anger in and of itself is not bad. It just depends what we do with it. We can do all kinds of horrible things with it. The purpose of anger is to motivate us to change something.

The "nice" thing to do is us to "clearly and gently" communicate what is wanted or needed, what the problem is... That is what can lead to better understanding and resolution of the anger, and the problem behind the anger - and even a stronger better relationship. It feels like in this interaction your T is not really moving towards such problem identifying and solving, nor encouraging or helping you to do so.

My T also says sometimes anger is a "go to emotion" - i.e. a place we go to instead of feeling sadness about a loss or fear about something. That can be all mixed into it too.

Maybe she is unclear about what you need out of the relationship? Maybe a key step is to sort out what do you want in treatment with her, and if she can provide it. She just might not be the right fit.

That's my rather wordy and jumbled up two cents... it may not be useful at all and I bet others will have better input.

DaRock hi and welcome to the forum.

As I read your post I was formulating a reply which, when I read Janedoe’s realized she had said most of the stuff I wanted to say, only much more clearly! I don’t think I can improve on what she’s said.

Would like to say though that my immediate reaction to hearing about your interaction with T was ‘she’s really messing it up’. It really does sound as if she was speaking out of defensiveness and offloading everything onto you. It sounds like you already have doubts about continuing with her (and that she could say something like ‘you’re not my client, we haven’t decided to work together again’ after THREE and a HALF YEARS of therapy together rings real warning bells with me). Do you think it would be possible to work through this with her and come to a position where she would be able to help you with angry feelings rather than force you into a position of being ‘nice’ all the time? Because if not, you might be better off looking to start with someone else (which I’m presuming you are in the process of deciding?)

I have to say that given the things she said to you my reaction would be to run. I hope the other T you are seeing will give you a good perspective to help you decide what to do.

LL

wow UV. that is quite a perspective. i think what you wrote is helpful. i am anxious for my next session. my T called and said she spoke with the man i had a consult with and it was very helpful and she has an opening this week and she wants to talk about it.

im wondering what will come of it. this same scenario has happened once before. a consulting doc spoke to her she felt it was helpful. and she approached me with a renewed faith that renewed mine.

we shall see.

i sooooo have a dismissive attachment style. i read all about it. interesting stuff.

someone even wrote that they thought they should improve their life to improve their attachment style. like instead of focusing on the attachment style itself, focus on your interests and hobbies and improve your life and your attachment style will improve too. or something like that.

have a good day.

Welcome to the DaForums, DaRock! (sorry I know that was a bad joke but I couldn't resist...that's a fun name you picked there ) I don't have much to add except to say I'm glad to hear your T finally called the man you had a consult with. I agree that the ego struggle between who calls whom shouldn't be an issue you have to deal with at all, but something that is worked out between them. Good luck on meeting with your T this week, I hope you find improvement in your relationship from this like you did the last time. Keep us posted!

SG

hey uv and gang,

uv that was a really sweet message. its been a busy week. im going out of town for two weeks next week so im getting ready.
i saw the T. it was good. we talked, we laughed. she kept asking me what it was that made me get the consult, what i felt she was doing wrong. she said she did lose it a little bit on me and she said she may do that from time to time and it doesnt mean our relationship cant hold it. she isnt perfect i guess. she owned making some mistakes. i felt good about the session. i think i may be less harsh on her and less demanding. i think the session made her seem more human. there is also a way she talks to me where i dont understand what she says because she is calm. im used to intense emotion. and she said she isnt biting in our second to last session when i was trying to pick a fight. i said when i picked a fight you should have said hey rock, shut up. and she said i told you im not biting, isnt that similar? her way of saying it just felt less aggressive to me than shut up and it made me feel like she was allowing me to pick a fight w. her.

anyways, i think we are on the right track. we'll see how it goes. my faith is renewed and maybe stronger. we will see.

sooo dismissive attachment huh? i think im dating someone who is like that too. its weird. sometimes i think she is like me. want you and need you but dont care if you leave. or something like that.

DaRock,

Your session sounds like it went really well. I'm happy that your T was able to own some mistakes and that you feel better about the track you are on. That is great!

Hi, DaRock...just wanted to say hi, I don't think I had a chance to say hi yet! Good your session went well...! It's nice to meet you.

BB