River,
I'm so sorry you're in that place, it can be so very painful. My T calls what you're talking about "the bind" our desire to move closer for connection and comfort and our absolute terror at getting it. A long time ago we learned that to go towards others in our need was a great way to get hurt, abused or rejected. So to protect ourselves we learned instead to just stay alone. But the needs never really go away, and become more insistant with time because we're human and we need those connections. But I do want to encourage you that you are reaching out here. Your connecting and you're daring to talk about your feelings. I'm sorry because I know that talking on the web doesn't carry the same punch as having a living, breathing, human there but I do care very much, and I want to here what you have say. You matter very much.

AG

Thank you AG.

I think that "the bind" is a very appropriate way to describe this feeling. It is unfortunate that when I feel terrible and need help the most is when it is the hardest for me to ask for support but when I am feeling better then it seems I have little trouble reaching out. Depression is insidiously self-perpetuating.

And speaking as we were yesterday about sisters, mine particularly enjoyed striking when I was at my lowest and most vulnerable. Had she no conscience? Even young children won't pull a sick dog's tail. (Well I don't think mine would but then again who can understand the logic of a 5 year old?)

River,
How strange. The sister I really don't get along with is the next up in the birth order (I'm the youngest of four kids) and was really cruel to me growing up. She would tease me to the point where I was hitting her as hard as I could (I was 4 yrs younger) while sobbing. I remember her laughing the whole time. When I finally took out her knee cap with a plunger, my mother shrugged. Its now a "funny" family story. Sometimes I think the worst part of a dysfunctional family is that there is so little to go around that the siblings need to scramble to get whatever scraps they can to survive, which doesn't tend to make you into a caring and compassionate person.

AG

I only have the one older sister. She is almost 3 years older. There definitely wasn't enough care and attention to go around though and we always competed but she could be so mean and I am so sensitive that she always won. I find it quite amazing how little effort my parents put into protecting me from her. It wasn't a secret. Even people at school knew how mean she could be.

I basically grew up feeling like an armadillo curled up into its shell. Being as small and quiet and as invisible as possible was the only defense I had against her. If she didn't notice me then she would leave me alone. If I didn't get too much attention from mom and dad then she won't feel threatened and she wouldn't torture me either verbally or physically. Verbal abuse was her forte though. Especially if she could tease me in front of my friends.

My parents were mostly MIA and I couldn't tell them. If I told and she got in trouble then I was really in for it the next chance she got. What makes a child so cruel? I have no idea what made her suffer so badly that she would have to take it out on me. It is probably a good thing that I didn't have a younger sibling because not knowing better I probably would have done the same stuff to them as sort of an act of revenge. Instead I guess I do it to myself now. My T has told me that I treat myself like I was treated growing up. I never realized that before but I can definitely see it now.

I don't have these problems with her now. I cut her from my life for 2 1/2 years. When we got pregnant at the same time was when I started talking to her again. I think I showed significant strength to convince her to "playing nice." I protect myself though. I keep very strong boundaries that my first T , bless her, help me build and maintain. But even now I still emotionally abuse myself. Some habits die hard. This is the job for my current T.

It seems like a long dark road sometimes doesn't River? But you are right where you need to be. Keep looking for the "mile markers" that mark your progress that you ARE making. Don't focus on the immense darkness, but notice the headlights from your T and the rest of us surrouding you. The night is temporary and the day will dawn soon. You're not alone!

Hi River,
And you wonder why you have trouble reaching out? Forced to stay inside a shell to stay safe, and I'm sure it didn't work all the time, it's no wonder you learned not to reach for connection. I'm so sorry that you're parents were MIA; you needed protection. You were, in effect, left with no one to turn to, so you stop trying to look for anyone to help you. Then you turned it all against yourself as kids do. You deserved so much better and so much more.

That's amazing that you've learned to maintain clear boundaries with your sister. That's alot more than I've been able to do with my problematic sister. We pretty much keep our distance except when forced to interact for family events. That is incredible progress.

I hope that working with your present T can teach you to care better for yourself; you deserve it. I really understand your struggle, because a real break through (or as Shrinklady would put it "aha" moment ) came for me while reading "When Food is Love" by Geneen Roth. This woman got overeating and the reasons for it like no one I've ever encountered before. I kept crying while reading the book because someone actually understood. One of the things she discussed at length in the book was that overeating was used both to comfort ourselves and to punish ourselves. I had never connected the punishing part. When I realized that I didn't deserve to be punished for being abused, that connection freed me up to take care of myself by eating the proper amount of food. It was a long, messy, process (what isn't?) but you'll get there.

AG

I don't know if it was writing all of that stuff about my sister yesterday but today I woke up with this image or dream or something where I was looking through the eyes of my inner little girl who is banging on this glass wall because she has stuff she wants to say but no one can hear her. For most of the day today I have felt about 6 years old.

My T and I have talked a lot about my inner little girl or "Little Sister" as I call her and it has been a long time since I've seen things from Little Sister's point of view. It has been interesting and kind of fun. Also, it seems that Little Sister has no qualms about bugging my T with phone calls because I couldn't concentrate on anything until I called her today. My T was intrigued and encouraged me to write down as much as I could about what it is that Little Sister wants to say. Well, she of course first asked me if I could tell her right then but I was at work and didn't have the freedom to get into it. I am glad I called though because she got to experience a little of this with me and I knew it wouldn't last until my next session.

After work I went and got ice cream and did some journaling before picking up my real little girl which pretty much broke the spell. I quickly went back to mom-land but I do feel a little more at peace. It has been a nice respite. Educational too.

Has anyone else noticed how much easier it is to reveal things about yourself to someone when you talk about it in the third person? Using "he" or "she" instead of "I" or "me." It seems to remove me from the fear and pain just enough that I can admit to almost anything.

Hi River,

I have to tell you that as soon as I started reading your experience from yesterday a big smile stretched across my face for you. This is great and so good for you. I can’t help but to be very excited for you. You gave her a voice right here in forum by talking about the way your sister treated you (her) and you also listened to her voice and listened to her all day yesterday by allowing her to “hang out with you” and listened as much as you could even though you were at work. I am also glad that you got to talk to your T about it, and she is right, journal, journal, journal, even small pieces throughout the day. I carry a notepad with me at all times to jot down things that come up; otherwise I forget by the time I get home.

Wow, banging on that glass wall. That’s just what my little girl self used to do until she was confident that she really had my attention. That is the exact image I get of her when I haven’t been listening.

I remember when I first gave her a voice, and I have a very touching story about that first moment but THIS is your moment. Anyway, I promised her that I would never ignore her again and I was surprised to realize that all of the people I had wanted to hear and understand me my whole life, the most important person who would need to listen to her now was me. You’re doing it River! Again, wow! I am so happy for you.

I love how you treated her to ice cream. At least that is how I translated it. But it is fascinating too that as soon as you picked up your daughter that broke the spell and you had to be mom again. It shows that you can give heart to “Little Sister” and still take care of other things. Just as you care and nurture your daughter you can nurture Little Sister. She really needs that from you.


Would you understand if I say that I am very proud of you!!! Because even though I do not know you personally, I understand and I get you and everything that you are saying River. I know this was not an easy place to get to, but you did and you took it on very bravely I must say.

(((HUGS))) for you and Little Sister!

BTW: I also find it interesting that you refer to her as Little Sister. I wonder if that is significant because of how she was treated by your big sister who seemed to be your primary abuser at home. At least in what I have read from you. But it’s interesting. I wonder if you’ve discussed her name with your T.

And yes, always third person when I refer to my little girl self. I wonder if that changes with integration.

So much of your post is right on the money. What a relief and joy it is to be understood, accepted and cheered on. Thank you for your words.

Yes, she is Little Sister because there is also a Big Sister in me like my real life big sister from my childhood that doesn't say very nice things to her and tells her that she is weird and stupid and unlikeable. Big Sister is the perpetuation of the abuse from my childhood that I continue to inflict on myself. That negative voice that I all to often listen to. I guess it is kind of like in the cartoons where someone has a little devil on one shoulder and a little angel on the other and both are trying to tell the person what to do.

I use the distinction of my real life big sister from my childhood and her now because after all the work I did years ago with my first T I am now not afraid of her and we get along. I learned how to protect myself better and to never rely on my parents to help me with her in any way. (This is a tangent but before I stopped talking to my sister for that 2 1/2 yr period, we had a major episode where I was begging her to just stop saying those awful things but she wouldn't and my mom stood right in between us the whole time but said absolutely nothing. So, I had to learn to stop looking to my parents for any help or protection.)

Anyway, now that I have been Little Sister I am hoping that it won't be too hard to get back there. I really like how you put it in your post JM, "Just as you care and nurture your daughter you can nurture Little Sister. She really needs that from you." She feels more tangible now so I think I can do a better job of nurturing her (I hope!) The first thing I feel I need to do is to hear what it is she is trying to say and to say it. This won't be easy.

Thank you so much for your care and concern and encouragement. I do feel like I am getting hugs from you all. I am touched and eternally grateful.

quote:

Originally posted by River:
Yes, she is Little Sister because there is also a Big Sister in me like my real life big sister from my childhood that doesn't say very nice things to her and tells her that she is weird and stupid and unlikeable. Big Sister is the perpetuation of the abuse from my childhood that I continue to inflict on myself. That negative voice that I all to often listen to.

That makes total sense!

BTW: I know that you did not point this out, but I noticed that I stated that "I get everything that you are saying." Let me apologize, because in no way is it possible for anyone to get everything that someone else is going through. To imply such is a lack of true understanding and acceptance of someone else's unique perceptions of their own experiences. After I re-read that I thought to myself "How dare you!" I would not do that intentionally.

JM -

I took your comment about getting everything more as an emphasis on your feeling of being able to understand because you have had similar experiences. I never thought you had assumed that you completely understood my experience exactly. Without the benefit of voice intonation and body language I think we have to take a few liberties when writing back and forth to convey certain intensities of feeling. Well, at least I do since writing has never been my forte.