Jill I had a very similar problem with a T recently - she spent an awful lot of the session time telling me stories, giving me long spiels about aspects of pyshology, going on about stuff that I could only relate to me in a really general and academic way. I did talk to her about it (not in any kind of confrontational way, just more or less tried to explain that the way she talked so much tended to disconnect me from stuff in me) but in the end it really was her way of being in session, I don't think she could have been different even if I'd really pushed it. (I stopped seeing her after six sessions, but it was for a lot of different reasons)

Don't want to dishearten you - from the way you've described the way things are going with this T, it sounds like you're getting a lot of help and support - so yeah you've given yourself the advice that I would , which is to try and talk to her about it - even if it's just to explain that you can't really relate what she's saying to you personally.

I wouldn't get too freaked out about this T not working, it sounds as if it's generally going fine and that this is something that can be sorted out.

Lol Jill maybe take this as an opportunity to practise dealing with conflict in a healing way - remember you are paying the bill and it's not your job to look out for her feelings (I'll guarantee that her feelings won't be hurt anyway!) I hope you can find it in you to bring this up with her - best wishes with it Jill :hug:

LL

thanks LL. i do get so transfixed and all or nothing, that seeing a bit of an issue with her just scares the living daylights out of me, as i want so much to have healing, i wish i could recall the whole story, i thing my mind started drifting into worrying about ("oh no, she is doing something i don't like, this is not good, she is not perfect, i am so sick, i need her to take care of me, she has issues as it seems like she is strutting her own stuff" i say to myself) and then i am completely mentally out the room and have no blanking idea what the relevance FOR ME was of that story.

i told her today, that i see her as very powerful, and a 'tiger'...but one on my side, and that i worry about getting on her bad side. started crying just telling her how vulnerable i feel. i tell you, this therapy is so hard. you feel so good, sometimes, walking out, then you start worrying about little things, for me, culminating in her NOT BEING THE ONE for me and i feel helpless and afraid and really just wanting to call her, but then i know it would just be standard 'patient flipping out' type stuff, and wouldn't comfort me as i would just feel so generic to her, and then would worry i am making a mess of the relationship, and fear the impending trainwreck of 'loss' of care from ANOTHER person who is supposed to take care of me. So i f-ing just sit here and cry. i am so completely f-ed up. why can't i think a relationship can 'hold' if i have a need that is not being met!! (i know why, but does 'it' EVER F-ING END!?!?!?!? this total dependance!! and i am not in again for four LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG days. and now i feel guilty as i am really lucky to get to see her twice a week...i dunno, spinning big time, and TOO MUCH TIME WAS TODAY ABOUT HER STORIES..i think i have to next time tell her i get lost as to what the point is, for me, in these stories.

oh, how i want a perfect therapist.

waaaa!!

Jill

hugs prayer and good thoughts being sent your way...

maybe you can say to your T at the begining of a session, something like "I have a lot I really want to say today" and that might be a way to signal what you need, or just tell her it would be more helpful for you if there was more time for you to talk and if she could hold off on the long stories... or maybe say what the point of the story is much more clearly. I think a good T would probably REALLY appreciate the feedback and to know what is helpful for you, and what's not working. That is why Ts are Ts - they want to help! Your need is totally reasonable and ok. Saying something about it is a GREAT way for you to take care of yourself and your needs in the relationship.

And if she takes it badly or it doesn't work, there is the "good" side that you do know sooner than later. Even if she can't handle it, and you have to face heartbreak, you won't be alone in it - we are here with you. hang in there.

Therapy is really HARD. (I keep thinking, wait what the heck?! I didn't sign up for *more* hard stuff!) I'm so sorry for the tears about feeling vulnerable and the fear and the pain and heartache you feel... My heart really goes out to you. I had an appointment with my eq T yesterday and I felt so vulnerable I was tempted to run away, like actually take off running. (I didn't.) It was about something that seemed so "small" to share that was something I liked and was helpful to me, yet it was SO HARD to share with her and I was so afraid SHE would take off running. She actually said it was really good to know and helpful! It was really easy after that.

Therapy is somewhat risky. Just facing the risks and your needs and struggling through how to express them is part of the work (ugh - I hate working on that.)

I get really afraid in therapy too - less and less so as time goes on. Over time I'm learning, at a heart level, that often the relationship can hold my needs, even when they go unmet, and often they are met more than I thought they could be! It does get easier - maybe never easy - I dunno. I guess it varies but really, I have so much hope for you and this T.

I'm so sorry for the past relationships you have lost. yeah, that just sucks. It's so hard for me to keep trying...

It really does sound like you have a wonderful T and I know you are working at it so well.

you rock. ((((jill))))


p.s. oh if you find that perfect T, will you tell me? I want one too!!!

thanks, jane, may i call you jane? or ms. doe?? (hee hee) i appreciate your compassion and hearing me. your wanting to run away in the equine therapy!! oh, how i relate. and how NEAT i think that sounds, to do that therapy. i did pack up, the first day with her, and leave, only a few minutes shy, but that sense to run away is SO real, and most often i don't physically, but mentally i do DAILY.

she is encouraging me to realize that 'i TEACH people how to treat me'...in regards to parents and a issue recently with a friend, that i go into a relationship in sublte ways telling people they can walk all over me and i will not hold them accountable. i come in all nice and 'flexible' and easy-going (on the outside), then people slightly take advantage of me and i feel internally OUTRAGED (mom triggers) and cut them off, and they are blindsided. if i could only start out a relationship with appropriate boundaries, THEY may learn that i require respect, and ... who knows, i might GET IT!!

when you said: "Therapy is somewhat risky. Just facing the risks and your needs and struggling through how to express them is part of the work (ugh - I hate working on that.) " that makes me realize that i need to address this, in a respectful direct way, and take the RISK of her meeting my needs. it will be scary, but you made me realize i am putting off the inevitable by not saying it. thanks, janedoe!! you ROCK as well!!! and yes, the perfect t?? sadly, don't think i have found her, but she is trying to get me out of black and white thinking and maybe accepting that she is neither perfect nor 'horrible', and alot closer to great, esp. than T1 who i would put as much less than average.

thanks for you support and encouragement, janedoe!! jill

the more i think about it, i think i dissaccociate during these times of her 'talking' and get so absorbed in trying to figure out what the point of it all is, where all my time is going, how to get out of this madness i don't understand, what subtlety is she trying to relay to me so that i catch on ... i have this vague trace of being 'punished', and that i am guilty as i am so lost, and she is like a talking charlie brown's mom and i am nodding and i think she thinks i get it and i don't....truly people, is it ADD, or self-absorbtion, or dissassociation or just a boring pointless story. i tend to blame myself, but i couldn't even follow the plot of Toy Story 3 with my kids!! i can't stay with a thought long enough to catch it or connect it. then i point the finger at her, as it is her problem, which maybe is healthier than ALWAYS thinking it is my own...then i feel i am making too big a deal about it, and ought to just quit therapy as this is all so STUPID.

i am spinning in circles and just hear charlie brown's mom talking and me not catching on to the subtleties i am supposed to understand, and feeling in trouble and trying to fake my way into getting her to think i know what she just said.

does ANYONE get this, or have i got cobwebs in my ears?? hmmmmmmmmmmm, i am confused. again.

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
she is encouraging me to realize that 'i TEACH people how to treat me'...in regards to parents and a issue recently with a friend, that i go into a relationship in sublte ways telling people they can walk all over me and i will not hold them accountable. i come in all nice and 'flexible' and easy-going (on the outside), then people slightly take advantage of me and i feel internally OUTRAGED (mom triggers) and cut them off, and they are blindsided. if i could only start out a relationship with appropriate boundaries, THEY may learn that i require respect, and ... who knows, i might GET IT!!

Sometimes I read posts from people and I'd swear I was related to them in some way cause their words describe me too so well.

Well sister Jill I am a runner. And I thought I was tame for a while but yesterday I literally ran away from my physical therapist. I felt she wasn't listening to me talk about my injury so I just got off the treadmill and rushed out the door without scheduling for the next appt. And I want her to call me and apologize, but the sad news is she won't and I already knew that from when I ran away before. And even if she did call she wouldn't know what to apologize for...

Usually with t, the urges to run are subtle and creep up over time after I fill my head with so many thoughts of dread and worry.

When I read your bit on teaching people how to treat me, I thought Eeek! I totally do that. I try so hard to not seem confrontational when I meet people. I'm still so stuck in being the mild-mannered girl who will do anything to please you so long as it will keep you being nice to me and in my life. (even to people who were not nice and did not deserve a spot in my life.) T and I just talked about how my being passive doesn't mean I'm not angry inside and then one person does one wrong thing and I blow the situation beyond reason in my mind because I've been holding the pain and anger from other events where I've just let people use me as a footwipe.

I once also had a T who talked to much. And then when I would talk, she would just repeat back what I said. It felt very uncomfortable but I didn't deal with it and moved on after 4 sessions for other reasons too. Then every T afterward, I made a point to say upfront why I did not like that one T. So my list of acceptable and unacceptable T behavior grew. It is extremely hard packing up and going to seek out another T in hopes they will be better than the last because you really have to spend time with them to know well. I have seen multiple Ts at once (gasp!) because of this. Now I know that's sticky ground but let me explain...

I was with a T who was horrible and I knew the time to end with her was coming soon. So I started shopping around. I spent a few sessions 4-5 getting to know a couple of Ts on the side while I transitioned away from that first T. So then it was just a matter of picking which of those 2 Ts to continue with. The deciding factor was a billing mishap with the insurance co. The one T presented me with this bill at the beginning of session saying the insurance wasn't paying and that I'd have to pay it. I was horrified and we spent the session talking about that and of course it was after hours so I couldn't even call the insurance co to get things straightened out. I was totally flustered and felt incredibly powerless because I couldn't do anything. Oh and he had the amounts HIGHLIGHTED on the bill. As if I needed help bringing my attention to them. and it felt like he gave it to me with a kind of smirk because we had just has a conversation about how my insurance covered charges blah blah blah. So it was like he was saying "i'm right and you're wrong".

2 days later I get a call from the other potential T just letting me know that there seemed to be some discrepancy with the billing and she just wanted to let me know before I came in so that I could contact the ins co. Can you guess which one I went with??? And I thought if he took the time to highlight and print out the stupid thing, he could've just called me!

So moral of the story, I got a lot out of the (forbidden) multiple Ts at one time. So totally not saying you should go on the search again, but I am saying don't be afraid to consult with other Ts if you feel that's necessary. Consulting is not like a reg session (at least not in my book, but we can see I'm a renegade ) I've used consulting sessions with other Ts to talk about the current T and to get some insight, perspective on how to approach T to talk about things that are sticky issues. And the coolest thing about consulting is you never have to care about seeing that T more than once or twice maybe so I find I am so much more open and useful of the time.

But I understand your wanting to land and you feel really good about this T so that's good. Some Ts, I think, get into a flow of what they think is helpful. You may think you'd be rude to tell her the stories are not helping you, but I don't think she'd see it that way. I can only speak for myself, (but since I feel like we're sisters... ) I know I exist in my own weird and twisted, upside-down reality. And that my T tries to get me to balance my reality. Maybe that is part of what these stories from your T are about? But you're not feeling that connection to them which is totally fine. If asking her to stop completely with the stories is too much, maybe telling her to stop and check in with you during the stories because you feel disconnected with them is a good midway step? At least you'd get her to pause and consider if it's benefiting you or not.

Whenever my T goes on and on too long about a point she usually catches me giving her a look and then she quickly wraps up the point. But her knowing my "look" has been the result of us working together and getting closer. And me getting comfortable, very slowly but surely, with her. And I'm learning to be ok with my T not being perfect. Goodness, she sure is way better than my past Ts, but we have had our share of arguments and I know there are things we won't see eye-eye on. Just being aware of how many good things about her helps me be ok with the bad.

I will gently point out that the therapy is for your comfort, not hers. (((((jill))))) I do completely know how it feels to want them to be happy with, proud of, enjoy the company of, and affectionate to us. But, this affection does no good if you're upset with her over time. I think telling her about your vulnerability was HUGE. That is good. (aww jill, I'm so proud) Even though you were frightened and crying it was worth getting out, you know. It will lead in well to you telling her about the stories and if she's good, she will not pounce on you like a tiger but rather offer you some gentle purrs. (ok so sorry for the metaphors, could not resist)

Maybe, you might leave her a message in the meantime. just a quick comment about them and that you want to talk about how those stories relate to you at next session? Perhaps it can get this off your mind a teeny bit for the next few days.


(((((((jill)))))))

forlorn, PLEASE move in next door and be the sister i never had who can talk about anything and who will love me unconditionally and if we have a disagreement, will talk to me about it knowing that it was just my uncoordinated way of communication and that i want more than anything in the world to be BFF.

wow, anyone nice to me....just a warning folks...i'll be yours FOREVER!!

anyway, to the point, yes, i am a runner myself, with friends, thinking of bolting on one today over a probably innocent error. i overreact internally and just spin. so, although i have researched a bit on new t's, i think i am going to try to talk to her about this, i sent her an email trying to come in today, friday, but she can't, so it'll wait til monday. i told her i need to talk to her about something that has me spinning and i have been avoiding....nothing like putting a little pressure on myself!! but i will bring it up, i do recognize the punishment i feel coming by not catching onto her sublties of her long winded stories...kind of fear getting in trouble and being rude. i am just going to lay it out there and take what comes. i can't imagine i am the first to state she rambles a bit too much (in nicer terms, tho) i am going to mention a few of the story lines so she will know what i am talking about, and maybe we can have a code if i am 'leaving the building'...with my last T, i would just do a leveling sign over my head that i tried to indicate i wasn't following...with her, i just nod and listen to charlie browns mother speak and disassociate. add?? i dunno.

yes, forlorn, that billing stiff really reeks of us being just a number, and an annoying one at that..me, not you.

and courting a t on the side has been an option for me, too, but with kids out of school, i can barely make the appts with her.

i think i have no choice but to run this through the summer, and not be too afraid to 'hit hard' and if she can't handle it (and i do sense she is tough but i fear her turning on me) then i'll figure something else out. whew...i am sweating, that is it!! i know she is tough and i FEAR her turning her toughness on me....revelation, my dear friend...i am sweating, or hot flashes...one can't be too sure.

anyway, ((((((((forlorn)))))))))))) (oh no, i hugged you tighter than you hugged me...i am feeling like i need to run!! (joking) but thatfight of flight instinct?? i just got the flight portion of that deal.

thanks for your kind reply, fellow runner!! jill

i am chickening out on mentioning this to her, thinking to try to just kind of 'hint' that i am getting lost.

i am realizing the more i am thinking about it, the more it relates to just 'not existing' in the room, like when my parents were SO UNAWARE that i was sitting there needing attention, and they were miles away talking about something funny that i didn't get as i was so small and unnoticed and feel, again, guilty having a need.

transference 101, and i am afraid to speak up. what to do. and two, i can't just say it simply, i seem to have to write a mini-novel to read to her about all the ins and outs of how i feel.

geez, i would HATE to be MY THERAPIST!! yuk!

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
i am chickening out on mentioning this to her, thinking to try to just kind of 'hint' that i am getting lost.

Hiya Sis!

The first thing that I think of is that she might try to add clarity to the stories, therefore making them longer, and not shorter. And maybe adding more stories to help, thinking that you like the stories but just get lost in the meaning behind them. But if I understand, and tell me if I’m off, you don’t want the stories at all, or at least not every time and not drawn out ones.

Don’t feel bad about having to write your feelings out if that’s how they need to be expressed right at the moment with her. I find the paper makes me feel like the spotlight is taken off of me and puts the focus on the paper as if it was a mysterious person who wrote those words, definitely not me, oh no. Ha, and at least you read yours to your T. My T has to get out her glasses and read through my novels while I sit there hiding behind her toss pillows.

For me, it’s sort of feels like saying “I have this friend, and she has this issue with her T. Yeah, see her T tells these long drawn out stories that I, er I mean, SHE does not understand or feel comfortable with….”

Hey not a bad, albeit passive, suggestion !

But as far a the mini-novel goes, I actually think your post sums it up quite well and very succinctly especially mentioning the "not existing" piece. Any chance sharing this with her?

quote:

geez, i would HATE to be MY THERAPIST!! yuk!

Ditto, (for me not you)
*sigh* T and I got into another argument last session. Which while they affect me differently now, still left me sulky and non-responsive.

If I were my T, I would’ve given me a poisonous apple weeks ago.

Well, One more day to go for you! (((((((((((((((((((((Jill))))))))))))))))))))))

How's that for a hug

sis, thanks, i know, i thought if i mention my problem with them, she may think it is something i need to get more comfortable with and make them even more common. and with more 'are you with me' checkpoints ad naseaum...hmmmmm, what is a friend of a person with an problem with a long winded t to do.

i have no idea how i will handle it, but i think the main thing, is that inner child is just being heard with all this adult metaphor type talk. i blanking HATE IT!!

weird response, i am sure.

i am still new with this t, so i wonder about your comment arguing with your t. how long have you been seeing this person? i know i argued with T1, but it took months to see through him enough to stand up to him. yes, sulky and non-responsive, me too.

thanks for the great hug, back at you times two!! jill

Hey sis, how did it go?

I was thinking of you today and wishing you lots of strength

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
i am still new with this t, so i wonder about your comment arguing with your t. how long have you been seeing this person? i know i argued with T1, but it took months to see through him enough to stand up to him. yes, sulky and non-responsive, me too.

(in my mind) My T and I argue lots. I recognize most of it has to do with me feeling like she's exasperated with me or annoyed so when she responds to something that I don't agree with, I think "ah ha, she hates me and we're arguing" When in reality it's probably closer to, she's trying say things that are reasonable but I chose to be stubborn and defensive and not hear her words because they are not the words I want to be hearing.

An example would be,
Me: "I'm mean and a monster"
Her: (sighs)"that's not true, you're very caring"
Me: (only hears her disagreeing with me being the monster I KNOW I am) "you're mad at me"

I've been with her 7 months. She has to do a lot of damage control on my self-esteem, so I imagine she gets mad at me for that. Still, even though I can get all sulky and upset during the "argument", we have been ending on good notes lately. I can only hope that continues...

sis, first of all, thanks for remembering....well, i brought it up and read my sob story letter i had written out, not to her, but written just to the air. i think she got it, really keyed on the part where i told her to talk to me like a third grader...no long drawn out metaphors that i can't understand. they make me feel nervous, 'punished', and invisible.

she didn't do any, and didn't really 'trail' off down roads of who knows what.

she got a little 'straight' with me, which is what i want, but made me take notice, which is good. said i don't want to go where 'she leads' at times, and she doesn't push, i asked her to push. she said sometimes i seem to want to feel sorry for myself. i argued that i didn't realize that, and i don't know that i agree, i just 'know' this spot of me with all my defenses, etc. this way i live, and it is like i am on an island and too afraid to move, and am stuck. i need someone to take me by the hand and walk me through. and i guess i realize i AM resistant to walking through it, i tend to 'poo poo' some of her techniques, and am a bit like the princess with the pea under her mattress as to what i chose to respond to. anyway, a bit of 'arguing' in a friendly way, but i think it resulted in progress for both of us.

sis, i like your argument you posted. yes, we just need to be the child and have someone brave enough, caring enough, to talk logic into us. damage control on self esteem!! oh yeah! we are related!!

and you? how's it going there in pennsylvania!!!

I suspect that my T rather likes talking shit, but quite often I wish he talked a bit more.
It is not always relevant to my therapy (like that he is going to put his old desk in the office to furnish it a bit more, or that his car broke down completely), but I find it quite relaxing and bringing me actually closer to him, but on different level.
He knows they are things I don't want to hear (like his family life) and he doesn't talk about it.

Jill, maybe the fact that your T's talking annoys you is actually something important.
Or maybe she is also waiting for you to stand up and tell her to shut up? What do you think?

amazon, i am cracking up at your post, oh, how i sense a mood i recall from my past? maybe incorrectly, but i love a synical attitude, as i feel so comfortable there!! yes, she talks 'shit' sometimes, and while you like it, it makes my skin crawl, and in more words than 'shut up', i did tell her what i thought of it, actually, it was more the fact that i have no ability to follow a train of thought...i saw Toy Story 3 with my kids and couldn't follow the plotline...so her triangulated stories just made me quite nervous. i got it 'all out' and i am sure she senses that she is in for a big one with me, i am certainly not the work for someone unsure of their craft.

love your last line...'jill, maybe the fact that your t's talking annoys you is actually something important. or maybe she is waiting for you to stand up and tell her to shut up? what do you think?" hmmmm, my overly cautious and speculative brain senses a thought being tossed my way that i talk too much??

is that what you mean?? i actually have no idea what you are trying to tell me, i am probably being thick...tell me...do you hate me, too???

i mean this in a friendly tone, amazon, i dunno, something about your post really gave me a good laugh!! and then, a perplexing after-taste...jill

Jill, I'm glad my post gave you a bit of a laugh
And I didn't mean to give you any after-taste, unless a good one

I actually think that you should tell her what you think and if she keeps annoying you, just get mad at her.
My T says that getting mad at him would do me good, but I am ot quite able to be angry at him since he is soooo perfect.

i don't know that she is trying to provoke me, i think she is still trying to earn my trust. but maybe. regardless, she DID, and i WILL bring it up. maybe i will ask her IF she was trying to provoke me. THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION?? hmmmmmmmmmm....that would be interesting, will be, as i WILL ask her (if i don't forget, in my stupor coming in there and feeling so stupid to be in therapy about 'my mommy being mean to me'...)

i gotta NOT run, though, as i am so apt to do, gotta fight it out, or, as she is trying to hint with me, learn to be f-ing ASSERTIVE. i hate that word too, right up there with BALANCE, COGNITIVE RESTRUCTURING, all that crap that dangles out there for us to latch onto when i would rather stay in my foxhole, and i don't think it is because i am feeling sorry for myself (as i mentioned in other thread) i think it is coz i have found it to be safe. damn it. safe.

glad your t seems perfect. i don't think i ever let anything seem perfect, i am a nit-picker i guess, as i was 'nit-picked' to death by my mom, so now i do it FOR her.

is there ANYTHING you could up the tempo of anger with your t about, just to practice talking through anger?? i dunno, just a thought, jill

((good golly, would someone post something somewhere, as i am three of the four 'last posts'...i guess i DO talk too much!! hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anybody here??????????????? or are we all a bit spooked?????????? i know i am!!!!!!!!!!

Jill, I think there is no real question. The real thing is only how you feel and however difficult it is, that's what we are trying to follow in therapy. Our feelings.

quote:

((good golly, would someone post something somewhere, as i am three of the four 'last posts'...i guess i DO talk too much!! hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anybody here??????????????? or are we all a bit spooked?????????? i know i am!!!!!!!!!!

I know the feeling about not getting feedback. Sorry, jill. I highly doubt it is personal, but yes, I think some of us are a bit scared to post lately because we don't want to offend. I for one haven't known what to say on this thread because I've not really had the problem of my T talking too much for my liking. Usually I wish she would say more, so I can't relate. I have, however, wondered before if a few comments she has made were said to provoke me on purpose. She won't admit it though. The closest she has come is acknowledging her awareness that something she says might anger me, but that its not her reason for saying it.

Hello, Jill...sorry you were freaked. I've been out of the house all day...and when I'm home it is very hard to post for personal reasons. Also I too am a bit scared lately. That being said, my problem lately seems to have been not T talking too much, but me not being able to talk much. My last session was a complete bomb. I coulnd't speak at all, hardly, so he did most of the talking. Which was cool, I got a fair bit out of what he had to say. But it was pretty much agony, the whole time. Maybe I'll get brave, post about it, I don't know, instead of sitting here hijacking your thread! But, there have been times when he talked and talked, lecture style, and I wasn't getting a word of what he was saying, really. TOTAL space cadet! So I get you...and that can cause a lot of anxiety for me as well. Best thing to do is probably pipe in and say, er, dear T, will you please let me get a word in edgewise? Especially if you actually WANT to! You go, girl!

BB

MH, i wasn't ranting for someone to answer me here, but i appreciate your answer, i was more ranting that of the four discussion groups in the general area, i was the last poster, and i was feeling like i talk too much!! more being funny, than asking for an answer on this one thread. but yes, what you said about provoking you, your t, sometimes she says something that might anger you...hmmm, that is not her reason for saying it. i guess she is innocent but being truthful, so, sounds fair to me.

mine today, when i confronted her, amazon, is she thought it might be 'all of the above' when i listed out the reasons for why she would say that to me, including 'it hurt coz i felt it was true', to 'she is trying to provoke me to see if i will be assertive' ... so, i guess she maybe did try to provoke me. i dunno, whatever, i am a bit less 'glowing' right now on her. alot of talk, still, but some weird stuff too, with her purposely trying to get me to dissassociate and then pulling me back to the here and now. i really felt so good being 'away' i didn't want to come back. my intellect was trying to obey her, but my 'gut' wouldn't come back, and would SO READILY go away. interesting, kindof left me shell shocked the rest of the time. the strangest stuff.

bb, if only i could be assertive enough to say what you said 'get a word in edgewise', i would wrap that in so many apologies that the point would be lost. she said i need to quit apologizing, which i proceeded to apologize for doing....y'no, like you, sometimes i get alot out of the 'stories' they tell, but then, i just felt like she was letting me hide behind them. thanks for your thoughts!!

onward through the fog. she did say i was 'profoundly' affected, so, whatever on the feeling sorry for myself bit. kindof in a flip off mood right now, so i oughta quit posting. thanks mh, bb and amazon for asking!! xxoo, jill