Monte,

Thanks for understanding. That in and of itself means a lot. I feel so alone in the world a lot of the time, and it makes me cry as I sit here and feel like at least one soul in the world understands where I'm at with my T. I'm so sorry that you understand me, though. The pain is almost unbearable sometimes. I can't even share it with my DH because he has no idea what it's like and I'm sure would REALLY think I'm nuts.

I do understand what you mean about shuddering at the thought of moving on to a new T. I do, too. And I have my many reasons, too. But I feel like I need the help in the real sense of the word. I can't even discuss my transference issues with my T. Never even opened it up for discussion at all. She knows it exists but won't go there. Won't confront me. She just says it's because of my primary relationships suffering so much, that there's no emotional connections in my life. REALLY?!!! Who knew?

I sometimes just want my T to hold me and rock me in her arms. Never had that as a child. I had a baby sister that came when I was 18 months old and then my mom had a breakdown shortly thereafter. I don't remember cuddling or holding or stuff like that. No comforting or rocking or caressing. I just want that from my T so much. The little girl inside just wants that. The 'mini-me' as you call yours. And yeah, I'm angry that my T doesn't even care to find out what my attachment feelings are or what the transference stuff feels like. It's like she's afraid of facing it herself because then she'd have to deal with my feelings and I sometimes wonder if she even knows how to deal with her own.

I too want emotional connection, and yes it is maddening that our Ts won't give it! Some will, and I guess that is where you have to be selective with the T. I've been reading (well, skimming) David Wallin's book "Attachment in Psychotherapy" and I'm about ready to give it to my T and ask her to read it and then let me know if she can do ANY of the stuff he recommends for the Dissmissing Patient so that I can get some real help. Otherwise I just may tell her I need to see someone else. I can't keep on at getting nowhere. It feels hopeless sometimes.

Thanks for reaching out, Monte. As sad as I am that I'm not alone, it's also comforting.

MTF

(((( MTF ))))

I’m so sorry you’re dropping into this profoundly black state again. I don’t really know what to say to help you with any of this because it seems to me like these are fundamental issues that you need to work out with your T.

I DO want to say though that having been in a similar sort of set up with massive doubts about my ex-T I actually did leave and try and find a new T and the more new Ts I meet the more appreciative I am becoming of my ex-T.

My thinking is that if you’ve got a T who is good in lots of ways then it’s worth infinitely more to try and work out these issues with them than it is to try and find someone else. I had the same belief that now I knew much more clearly what I needed from a therapist that it would be a simple matter of going out and finding one who understood my set up. Ha ha laughs ironically.

Well ok this is UK and feeling-oriented Ts are few and far between so maybe in the States you do stand a better chance of finding a better fit for you - but I’d still like to urge you to seriously think about bringing all of the things up that you’ve listed in your post with your T before thinking about leaving just yet.

By the way I’ve done what both you and Monte thought about - started an ‘unhelpful things that therapists do’ thread. It’s your comments that prompted me to do it - maybe we can all use it as a place to vent about the crap things that Ts do.

Lamplighter

((((MTF)))) ((((Monte)))) ((((Lamplighter))))

You are not alone. I think we all need hugs! Those needs that haven't been met, and probably aren't going to be -- I for one feel like throwing a tempter tantrum and shouting Why can't you give me what I need to heal? It's not fair! Actually, I have thrown some tantrums. And I just end up butting against boundaries and feeling more pain. Sometimes I wonder if this attachment stuff doesn't just re-traumatize all over again. I really can't even write much about it because it hurts to find the words. Which is why I haven't been posting much lately. But I do hear you all.

Hi MTF,

I'm so sorry you're struggling again. I've ridden those same waves through medication adjustment, and it's horrible. I hope that you're able to work something out soon that will suit you better.

Also, in my opinion, you have to do what is best for you. This forum community as a whole may not be "reality," but we are certainly talking about very realistic subjects. Honestly, I have found that reading and posting on here is more helpful to me than writing in my journal, which I still try to do. Just like group therapy, we come here to know and hear that we aren't alone. There are always going to be the possibility of damaging effects, but I think most everyone on here is smart enough to know that situations vary SO much from case to case that one person's experience doesn't dictate someone else's. You aren't taking someone else's reality and applying it to your own. You're simply trying to figure out your own reality. This forum is what keeps me "okay" for a good part of the time. Therapy has this sneaky little tendency to turn my world on its axis week to week, and even if I'm not talking to anyone in person about it, at least I'm talking to someone. I just really cannot find fault in coming here to talk about our experiences. If this is what keeps you afloat, I think you need to do what you need.

quote:

I do wonder if sometimes they (Ts) can only offer so much before what they continue to offer becomes damaging to some of us and if beyond that, it's up to us - with our own pool of inner resources - to do the rest.

I think part of the reason it's so damaging is that we know that we won't be able to rely on that attachment forever - that someday, the cord will be cut. And if we can't make the best out of it now, and if we aren't getting the most out of it now, it makes the process that much worse. Sometimes it seems like we're all just preparing ourselves to be traumatized, because it's that inevitable. But ideally, I guess what we learn in therapy would help us deal with it once we're done. It's kind of like re-opening a wound, learning how to tend to it, watch it begin to heal, and then ripping it open again, but this time you have to remember how to tend to it by yourself. Awful stuff.

Oh (((MTF)))
I am so sorry you are feeling back in this all too familiar place. It really just seems to be a daily struggle that we are all trying to manage and some days (and strings of days) are worse than others unfortunately. The medication factor only complicates things. You really are not alone. I hear your pain and I feel your pain. (((hugs)))

I agree with LL in that raising the issues on your list with your current T is worth trying before looking for a new T. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the things on the list would come up again with another T. Is there any chance you could talk to her directly about your fears regarding her treating you with a CBT approach? I know it's scary to think of the possibility of hearing an answer from her that you might not want to hear. I really think the fact that she has heard and accepted all that you have shared with her to this point is a good sign that she can deal with your stuff, wants to help you, and will be honest with you. Telling her as much as you can has eased your fears in the past. I don't recall you have ever posted that you have regretted telling her something.

I also personally think there is nothing wrong with finding support here. There are lots of other online places that in my opinion have the potential to be damaging. I am so thankful to have found a place with thoughtful and insightful people who are willing to take time to offer genuine and heartfelt responses to others including myself. I would agree with your H and your T if you were online in a fake world of some kind, but we are all real people here dealing with similar struggles and trying to help each other. This stuff is very relevant to your life right now and if coming here helps you feel supported and helps you grow and continue your journey, I can't see how that is bad in moderation. I also think that posting here is a step toward connecting with other people. (my T was actually proud of me for reaching out when I told her I was finding support here) Have you told her exactly how this place helps you or shared any of the insight you have gained from being here? It might help her see some benefit. Just my thoughts.

I really hope you are feeling a little better. I don't know about you, but holidays are always particularly difficult for me - another reminder of the lack of connection in my life.

Please try to remember that you are not alone.
(((MTF)))

Hi ladies,

Sorry it's been several days since you all posted to me and I've not replied. I figured I'd wait until I saw my T before I posted because I was in such a bad place and was really hoping that seeing her would get me out of that place. Well, no such luck. Don't know what to do now. I didn't actually end up telling her that I am spinning about her. Kind of gave her some cop-out about how I'm feeling disconnected from everyone (which is true), but I didn't tell her that the spinning was largely about her, nor did I read her the 4 pages I had typed up with stuff that needed to be aired. I hate it when I lose my nerve and just can't do it. That was the second time I've chickened out on something I knew I needed to do but just couldn't make myself do. Then I sit here afterwards and it eats at me for 2 VERY long and agonizing weeks and I kick myself for not doing it. ARGGHHHH!! Why???? I am about ready to call her office and see if she can get me in sooner and just tell her I'll go mad if I don't get this off my chest before the middle of the month. But then maybe it gives me some time to prepare myself to do it in a more personal way rather than just reading it. Like preparing to give an oral report in school, ya know? Hmmm. That's a good excuse... Either way I'm going to go nuts. I hate that I can't just get stuff out when I 'need' to.

We talked about my husband who dropped a bomb on me Sunday. Told me I'm destroying my children. How nice is that? I spent a lot of my session in tears. My T was a bit upset with my husband for that, told me to bring him back in so she can hold his feet to the fire. Oh yeah, so next session I guess I won't be able to get my stuff out either, it will be a whole month from now. Ugh. Guess I'd better call her. Man. She's going to be ticked at me for not being "butt-honest" with her. I hate that I feel like I can't be. I know she needs to know that I feel that way, too. I'm feeling like she's sick of me and my attachment issues. I told her that part of why I had such a hard time last week was because she said she would call me and didn't. She said she was sorry, but didn't sound that sincere. This was while I was listing off stuff about why I had a bad week so I didn't give her much of a chance to say anything though. I also told her I was back on here because I was feeling really disconnected. She started subtly shaking her head back and forth and I said, "_____, please don't shake your head at me." She stopped and got a guilty look on her face, like she wasn't meaning for me to see her shaking her head or something. I told her she doesn't understand this place or how much support I get here and that I feel understood by the people here. I told her I don't feel understood by my husband, my mother, and I told her I even feel like SHE doesn't understand me. I told her not to take that the wrong way, which was stupid of me (always trying to protect the other person's feelings). She didn't say anything in response to that at all. It made me feel really bad that she didn't even want to know why I feel that way or question why I would say that or how she can help me feel like she understands me better. Nothing at all. I had brought David Wallin's book "Attachment in Psychotherapy" with me and wanted to ask her to read the chapter called "the Dismissing Patient" so she could understand me better, but didn't bring it up and felt stupid for even thinking she might be interested after her not even batting an eye when I said I felt she doesn't even understand me. That really sucked.

She told me I need to talk to my husband about my feelings, about how I don't feel understood, how hurt I am over what he said to me and the big list of ways I'm destroying my kids that he gave me. I asked him for the list because to me a general statement like that needs a follow up of specifics. My T just always points to my primary relationships as the problems in my life. She doesn't see her and my relationship as meaning anything 'real', that it's just a microcosm of my real relationships, so I guess her attitude is sort of a what-does-it-matter-if-I-understand-you-or-not sort of thing, that it's more important that my DH understands me, which is true I guess, but it hurts that she doesn't want to understand me better, or at least show me that she seems interested at the very least. That's what hurt was her lack of concern that I feel that way.

I guess I'm coming to a point where I'm starting to view my T as any other professional. Like a doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc. Just someone there to offer professional treatment/advice and nothing more. My attachment to her seems to be starting to wane a bit and I am feeling sad about it but feeling a little like maybe this is her goal and that it's for the best? I don't know. Maybe I'm fooling myself, too. Maybe tomorrow I'm going to wake up and be so depressed I won't be able to function. My medication still isn't cutting it, so I'm crossing my fingers that it will kick in and help here soon, or I'm going to be a basket case.

Lamplighter:

I’m so sorry you’re without a T. Thanks for your sympathy. You're right about these being fundamental issues and I do need to discuss them with my T. Thanks for also letting me know that T shopping is a drag and that I may be better off staying where I am. Good to know and something to consider. And thanks for starting the "Unhelpful things" thread. Haven't posted there myself yet, but I've been in too bad a place and too angry. I don't want it to turn into a doom and gloom and a hate place. Good luck with finding a new T, or going back to your ex-T. I hope things work out for your best!


Mad Hatter:

quote:

Why can't you give me what I need to heal? It's not fair! Actually, I have thrown some tantrums. And I just end up butting against boundaries and feeling more pain. Sometimes I wonder if this attachment stuff doesn't just re-traumatize all over again.

Sorry you are feeling the same stuff, MH. It sucks. At least you've expressed your feelings to your T and gotten your 'stuff' out there. I know it's painful, but you've at least taken the risks. I haven't. So my T doesn't even 'get' me, or know what I'm feeling or what I need from her to heal. Even though I know she can't give it to me, I might be surprised by what she could give me, if I asked for something, but I haven't even asked. Too chicken. I hope you're doing better by now. (((MH)))


Monte:

quote:

I wonder if sometimes they (Ts) can only offer so much before what they continue to offer becomes damaging to some of us and if beyond that, it's up to us - with our own pool of inner resources - to do the rest.

Can they really heal us to a point where we when we leave them we feel in tip-top emotional condition - is that a fair, wise expectation that they could/should/might - or is their (even if THEY don't know it) purpose only to simply contribute to our journey?

I wonder, too. I feel now like I am becoming damaged by my T's lack of understanding and empathy. I feel like rather than trying to help me she is turning me away from her, like she is refusing to listen to my needs and help me because it's not her way and she refuses to do anything differently. IT HURTS LIKE HECK!!! And yeah, I feel like she thinks it's up to me to figure it out, or just turn to my husband and fix it through him, or my mother, or other women (girlfriends), etc. She's not it, in her mind. And I know she's not, but she won't be anything or accept that she's anything more to me than a trasference object. She can't be anything more than that because I don't really 'know' her. Pisses me off!!!!


Kashley:

quote:

This forum is what keeps me "okay" for a good part of the time. Therapy has this sneaky little tendency to turn my world on its axis week to week, and even if I'm not talking to anyone in person about it, at least I'm talking to someone. I just really cannot find fault in coming here to talk about our experiences. If this is what keeps you afloat, I think you need to do what you need.

Thanks, K. This is how I feel too and this is what I need to communicate to my T. She doesn't get what therapy does to me and how much I need someone to talk to about it, even if it's not a specific person in person, it's someone, or several people and I get good feedback and some normalization about my feelings and some good perspective and grounding when I need it. If she knew where I 'went' in my head sometimes after my sessions with her, I think my T would be thrilled that I come here, because otherwise she'd have a nuttier patient that she already has, or I'd be calling her all the time, which I am sure she wouldn't appreciate!!

quote:

I think part of the reason it's so damaging is that we know that we won't be able to rely on that attachment forever - that someday, the cord will be cut. And if we can't make the best out of it now, and if we aren't getting the most out of it now, it makes the process that much worse. Sometimes it seems like we're all just preparing ourselves to be traumatized, because it's that inevitable. But ideally, I guess what we learn in therapy would help us deal with it once we're done. It's kind of like re-opening a wound, learning how to tend to it, watch it begin to heal, and then ripping it open again, but this time you have to remember how to tend to it by yourself. Awful stuff.

Wow, that wound idea you and Monte have going on just makes a lot of sense to me. Good analogy ladies! I need to use that one on my T, too! She's love that!!! Especially the 'ripping' part. Nice touch, K! Hahaha! It's true though. I know when I leave my T, despite what SHE says, I'm going to feel like I just ripped open a wound and have to try and tend to it and help it heal on my own, and that's going to be SO HARD! Scares me just thinking about it.


Seablue

Thanks for your support and understanding. It means a lot. I know I'm not alone. Sad but true. It gives me comfort to know that but makes me feel bad for all the rest of you out there that know what I'm suffering through. It feels so unfair that we have to deal with any of this stuff to begin with.

I will try to talk to my T about her CBT approach, but I don't know that it will do any good. That was in my plans for yesterday's session, but like everything else it went out the window. I will have to give it a try though. I need more from her, but feel like she has such a giant caseload that it's selfish of me to ask her for anything more that what she's already give me, even if that isn't working. I pretty much know her answer will be 'no', but it is worth a try. At least I'm practicing asking for things I need, right? How uncomfortable. I suck at doing that! LOL! Thanks for reminding me that my T has heard and accepted me quite well up to this point and that I can trust that she's not going to slap me in the face with something horrible. I'm sure she can deal with me and my stuff and that it will be okay, even if I'm scared to put it out there.

quote:

if coming here helps you feel supported and helps you grow and continue your journey, I can't see how that is bad in moderation. I also think that posting here is a step toward connecting with other people. (my T was actually proud of me for reaching out when I told her I was finding support here) Have you told her exactly how this place helps you or shared any of the insight you have gained from being here? It might help her see some benefit. Just my thoughts.

I'm really thinking I should print off some stuff I've received from some of you wonderful people on here and bring it to a sesion to share with my T. Maybe then she could see for herself that this is a very supportive and helpful place for me. And if she feels the opposite after I share something good with her, then I'll really have reason to question her!! I'm really glad that your T was proud of you for reaching out and getting support here. This really is a great place!!


Thanks again to all of you for your support and kind words to me. It helps me a lot, and even if I don't get right back to you with a reply, I read your posts and appreciate them so much. Hugs of thanks to you all!

MTF

MTF,

I'm sorry your session didn't go the way that you wanted. It is so hard to make yourself vulnerable and bring up such difficult topics, especially when the topic directly involves your T. It sounds like to me that you and your T are having a series of miscommunications and misattunements and it is interfering with the relationship. For me, I would see it as a reg flag if my T didn't place value on our relationship and the attachment that naturally comes from that. To me, the relationship itself is such a significant part of the therapy that I don't think I could work if I didn't feel heard, understood and like my T was well attuned. I think to get into serious issues and especially issues involving past wounds and attachment we need a very secure and trusting base with our T. Perhaps I am reading too much into what you said, but it doesn't sound like you are trusting your T very much right now. I think asking to be seen earlier is a great idea. I know that when T and I have issues between us, nothing else can really get done until we deal with our relationship first.

As far as what your husband said that is a very hurtful thing to say. I hope that you are able to find some resolution to whatever issues there are between the two of you.

I'm sorry it is so hard right now. ((((MTF))))

(((( MTF ))))

That is so crap that you had a lousy session. There’s so much going on for you right now I’ve got to admire you for being able to write about it here so clearly. And for what it’s worth I think you’re in the right for standing up to your T and DH about posting on the forum - this IS a special place and maybe you could get that clear to them just how much good it does you so they get off your back about spending too much time here!

I have to say I was pretty gobsmacked by what your husband said - that sounds like a pretty vicious and attacking way of getting his point across. Was he trying shock tactics or something? I think you need to give yourself a bit of leeway here - issues like that with your H are bound to be the more pressing problems on your mind so not being able to talk to your T about the stuff between you and her right now is actually understandable. I really hope he said that in anger and not that he really meant it!

Have to say when I was reading about your experiences with T in session I was thinking hell that’s so familiar, that desperate need to be understood and even telling someone they don’t understand they don’t seem to get it. And I was formulating all sorts of replies in my head and then I got to the dreaded acronym CBT!!! That’s exactly why I ended up finishing with ex-T - that even though he was really willing to go along with my needing to express how I FELT rather than going down the let’s try and fix this rationally road he really couldn’t help himself, CBT must be in his blood or something because he just didn’t KNOW to focus on my feelings, couldn’t find the ways to enable me to go with feelings - we ended up talking about rather than doing.

Having said that, once I was clear in my own mind about what I thought I needed from therapy and explained it to him (umpteen times and in umpteen different variations) he really did accept it and tried to modify his approach to meet my need. So what I’m saying is that despite your T having the CBT approach she may well be able to give you more of what you need (as opposed to what she considers therapeutically ‘good’ for you) if you are able to spell it out for her. It’s really worth risking that because from the sounds of it you are getting pretty disconnected so her way of relating to you is getting less helpful - and you’ve said in other posts how good she is and how much you like and trust her so rather than shutting down on it maybe laying out your cards so to speak could be a really useful thing for you to do?

I do hope you make an earlier appointment - you’ve got so much to deal with right now and it can only be a good thing to try and sort some of it out as soon as you can.

MTF I really hope you are coping ok :hug:

Lamplighter

MTF,
How frustrating and confusing. It sounds to me like you needed more than an hour to get everything out. I am sure the issues with H were on your mind, but the problems w/ your T must feel equally pressing. Try to be gentle with yourself - holding back talking about the problems you are feeling with your T may not have been about chickening out, but more about being in a place where you were spinning so badly that you didn't know where to start and then where to go. I am also wondering if it is easier to talk to about H than T - in that case it is natural that you would continue to talk about H because you did also need to talk about that situation and probably didn't have time for both. Also want to say I am sorry that he said such a hurtful thing to you. Not fair - especially using the kids.
I hope you can take take care of yourself by asking for a session sooner than 2 weeks. I think it is perfectly normal to feel so upset about the disconnect. I can only speak for myself and God knows I am not good at this stuff, but I think that this is what happens in therapy with people who have attachment injury. It seems obvious that there are going to be issues with the attachment. I have recognized a pattern in myself - the struggle with feeling connected one week then start freaking out/spinning about something she said or something I think of that may or may not be real and then automatically withdraw and all but accuse her of just pretending to care as I am sitting there with my arms crossed in front of me at the next session. My way of keeping some distance. It is beyond confusing and frustrating, but I think it is just part of it - if there weren't problems in the relationship, then you wouldn't probably be dealing with attachment injury. It is so difficult for anything to feel ok when there is a feeling of disconnect. Also, I don't know about you, but I think since I have started to be much more open with my T, I have noticed that when I hold back and don't tell her something important, it gets way bigger until I finally do. Sorry if this wasn't helpful - I wish I could make it less painful.
Please keep posting so you can feel supported - it is healthy to reach out - at least I think so! (((MTF)))

Oh - and girl!! I am proud of you for calling your T on her shaking her head at you!!

My T called me almost ten minutes before 8 a.m. this morning. She had some addiction recovery program graduation last night until 10 p.m. and couldn't call me back so she was getting back to me as soon as possible today. She's funny sometimes. She is crazy busy taking on some other therapist's patients this next 3 weeks while he's on vacation so I don't how she got me in, but she fit me in to a 9 a.m. slot this coming Wednesday morning. Whew and yikes at the same time! I am both relieved and freaked now! Now I have to worry about what to tell her and how. At least I can 'rehearse' what I want to say so I can hopefully do it without reading anything other than maybe a cue card. That's my goal, although I realize it's a lofty one. Now if I can just keep from spinning out of control between now and my session worrying about how it's going to go.


STRM:

Nice to meet you! Thanks for the post and for reaching out. You made some good points:

quote:

I would see it as a red flag if my T didn't place value on our relationship and the attachment that naturally comes from that. To me, the relationship itself is such a significant part of the therapy that I don't think I could work if I didn't feel heard, understood and like my T was well attuned.

This is a red flag for me, too. In the past I have posted about red flags and worried excessively about my T and her placing seemingly little value on my attachment to her. We've had our ups and downs with that, that's for sure. I'm spinning on that again and I'm sure she'll be a bit irritated with me about that (because she's assured me that my attachement to her is important), but I think I'm the type that needs constant reassurance from my T that being attached to her is okay, and that she accepts that. If she really doesn't accept it and isn't okay with it, then I'm going to have to just find a T that is okay with it because like you said, it is so crucial to the relationship, especially for people like me that have attachment injury issues. I think things will be okay, I just get in bad places sometimes, and have to realize my T is human too. She sounded much better herself today, and maybe she was having a bad day herself at my last session. Who knows. But I will definitely work through all of this stuff with her because it's important stuff to put out there and have resolved. Thanks again for reaching out in support. I really appreciate it!


Lamplighter:

Thanks for the support. Things are better with H, and we did talk. He did mean what he said, but he said he didn't mean to hurt me. He's a bit dense sometimes and doesn't think about the hurt he inflicts, or maybe he does get it but doesn't realize the depth of the pain it can cause. I don't know. He's apologized, but hasn't withdrawn the statement as being something he feels as true. Just having support from all of you ladies here (and my T, too) has helped me not feel so crappy about it though.

I get the part about your ex-T and the CBT. I too feel like my T must have CBT in her blood. I hope she'll work with me though, and really try. She has given me more of herself in the past, so I think she can and will be more for me if she realizes how much it can help me in my therapy. That's why I want her to read Wallin's book because her understanding the dismissing attachment style and how she as a therapist can help me as such will be hugely helpful to me. I'm crossing my fingers (and toes) on that one. We'll see. It's true what you reminded me of, that I do like my T and I trust her, so being open with her and laying it all on the table really is the best, most useful thing for me to do at this point. Thanks for pointing that out, as I've been in such a dark spot it's been hard to 'see' things clearly. I appreciate your support, LL!!


Seablue:

Thanks for your kind comments. You always 'get' me so well. You and Monte are just like my forum sisters, and it's so nice to have people here who really understand what this crud feels like, although I feel bad that you do understand it.

quote:

I have recognized a pattern in myself - the struggle with feeling connected one week then start freaking out/spinning about something she said or something I think of that may or may not be real and then automatically withdraw and all but accuse her of just pretending to care as I am sitting there with my arms crossed in front of me at the next session. My way of keeping some distance. It is beyond confusing and frustrating, but I think it is just part of it - if there weren't problems in the relationship, then you wouldn't probably be dealing with attachment injury. It is so difficult for anything to feel ok when there is a feeling of disconnect. Also, I don't know about you, but I think since I have started to be much more open with my T, I have noticed that when I hold back and don't tell her something important, it gets way bigger until I finally do.

You articulated that well for me. And yeah, until I get something important out there to my T, it does get way bigger and I spin about it so much more until I get it out and it's over with. That's why I know it's going to make me crazy until Wednesday, but a week earlier than it would've been otherwise is better than nothing, so I'll take it!

And thanks for continuing to encourage me to reach out here and for being proud of me for calling my T on her shaking her head at me. I still can't believe I did THAT!! So not like me! Guess I am making some kind of progress!


Monte:

No you weren't sounding harsh, just real, which is why I appreciate your support so much. You always tell me how it is without the sugar coating! You and I are so much alike in many ways in our therapy that it is nice to have someone who relates to me, and I appreciate your honesty and efforts to help me see things from a healthy and real perspective. Thank you, Monte!! Your 'Rejection Radar' analogy makes 100% sense to me and resonates with how I do therapy with my T. I needed to hear it put that way. No, she's not perfect, she doesn't do things MY way, never will, won't meet my expectations perfectly EVER, and I will never fully understand her because I can't read her mind. And I need to realize she's in the same boat when the table is turned. This really stood out to me, too:

quote:

I just want to see his positive human traits, not the less than desirable ones. I want perfection. Perfect parent figure. Pfffttt...ain't gonna happen. I think the longer you pine for such stuff the bigger and more unrealistic the need becomes. If you have pined for it for decades, your expectations are going to be huge, maybe even distorted.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me here. I have huge expectations of my T that of course are so unrealistic. She's perfectly acceptable 'as is' and I need to just accept her that way and stop trying to change her. Sure, she's always open to new things, and maybe she'll try something new for me, but I need to accept the fact that she may tell me she's not going to do anything different with me. I have to be willing to face that possibility, even if it hurts. So I have some pondering and decision making to do. I have a new perspective now, thanks to you!! Thank you, Monte!! I will keep pushing through the fear, as you keep encouraging me to do.

I will be thinking about you and hope that your appointment with your own T goes well this upcoming Tuesday. I am sure you're nervous about how that will go. But after the way your T gushed over the last set of artwork you took in to him, I'm sure he will appreciate what you have done this time. I am praying he will see the value in it on a therapeutic level and really 'get' what you are tying to accomplish through it with him. Tough stuff! I'm really hoping hard for you!!! Praying this is it!! Hang in there!!! (((((Monte)))))



Thanks again everyone for your support. It always means so much to me and is why I love this place and keep coming back. You all are so wonderful!!

MTF

Had my session today that my T got me into after I called her and asked her to see me before I go in with my DH next week. It wasn't what I was hoping it would be, but it was interesting.

I told my T I was struggling with the therapeutic relationship, that I always end up spinning about it when I do spin. I couldn't really define what it is I spin about, not yet. I wish I could just spill it all, but I feel like I'm getting somewhere finally. She knows now that I fear her reactions to things I say, that I don't feel like I can be my true self with her. I told her I feel like that with my DH too. I'm starting to see parallels in my relationships here. Scary. It's true what they say about transference I guess (sort of).

I told her I feel like running, and then wanting to come back. She said I have to practice doing scary things, pushing myself. That therapy is tough work. Once I get comfortable, it's time to up the ante. She knows I struggle and that it's hard for me and that I have a lot on my plate right now and that is why she doesn't push me. I also told her though that I feel like she doesn't push me enough. Ooops. That was maybe a mistake. I said I feel like she doesn't confront or challenge me, that she let me off the hook about the internet searching too easily and that I expected to see her feelings about that. She acted a little strange when I said that, so I called and left her a message and hopefully she'll call me later today because now I'm spinning about her reaction. It doesn't feel right. She said she's not technically savvy, and that if her kids are stupid enough to have blogs and stuff and put their personal info out there for people to find, that's their problem. Thing is, that's not how I found the info, it was through Facebook and some other means and it took LOTS of sleuthing and hours of searching. I don't quite think she gets it. She just seemed a bit uncomfortable when I told her she didn't say anything about how she felt about it, whether it bothered her and that I expected her to say that it had. That's when she gave me the line about her kids being stupid. She seemed uncomfortable about something, and it's bothering me. So I need to get to the bottom of it, if I can. We'll see. This might be another one of those things I don't get a resolution on, but I'm going to give it my best shot anyway.

I also wonder if I should have told her she doesn't challenge me or confront me enough because then she really did! She told me it's because I don't like her "Put on your big girl panties and DEAL WITH IT!" sign. Okay... So I told her I think I can deal with her. She said she's a kick butt person, which any of you who have followed any of my previous posts know already, and I told her I know that and feel like I can handle her. I told her that last time I stood up for myself when she shook her head at me about coming back here to the forums, and she agreed, so then she really laid into me about standing up to my DH about stuff, not letting him treat me like he's my father, taking a stand for my kids, finding a house and moving out of my in-laws apartment we've been in for 6 years, and stuff like that. She really stepped back into her 'old self' role with me and although it took me off guard, it was nice to 'see' her again, as I think she backed off A LOT after I talked to her about her sign. I didn't realize that telling her that impacted how she was treating me, but to have her tell me that was kind of a shocker! I guess it was good to ask her to challenge me. Hopefully I'll get my old T back. I've missed her. She's been different for a while now, and I was starting to think that it was because she was sick of me, didn't like me anymore, wanted me to find a new T, or something along those lines. So much for the 'butt honesty'. Seems almost like SHE hasn't been butt honest with ME! Maybe I need to tell her that, too! Ugh. What to do?

Well, that's about it. Not what I'd expected, as I'd written about 5 pages of stuff to talk to her about, not wanting to read it to her, but refer to it. I didn't even open it up. I just tried to remember it and it didn't go so well. Next time I think I'll write myself a few index cards or something easier to reference. She asked me if I would let her read it and if that would make it easier! Uh, no. It wasn't even ready for me to just read out loud, sort of a rough draft. That would have been a disaster. Anyway, I'm glad to have made some progress with my T today. It feels better, but I wish sessions could last as long as we need them to. That's the part that's tough. I never get out even a fraction of what needs to be aired sometimes. Such a pity, too. Next Wednesday is my couples session. THAT is the one I'm dreading.

MTF

Monte,

Thanks for posting again, and sorry your first message got lost. I hate it when that happens. I appreciate you taking the time to type a whole new message to me. Thank you!!

Yes, the slow progress is painstaking, or a pain in the arse--take your pick!!

quote:

Maybe that is a good thing in that through that experience we learn something about trust. We can see that even if it doesn't look like the scene we were dwelling upon and hoping for, it can still be good, that we can receive something good from a significant other. We can slack off on those controls, learn that the unknown can bring benefits rather than hold desperately to what we feel 'good' should look like. Something about flexibility, openness to other possibilities etc.

I don't know how you do it, but you always seem to say the right things. Must be that 'forum twin' vibe or something, in that you just know what I need to hear. Thanks again. You're so good at picking these good things out of situations I can only see negative in. It's nice to come here and get a fresh perspective on my oftentimes gloomy outlook on things with my T.

quote:

Some things can't be forced and if they are, maybe the result is less satisfactory than if it had been let to evolve or happen naturally. What do you reckon?

Well, wise Monte, I reckon that you are right yet again! And the part about letting go and going with the flow...yeah, that too. My T called and I told her about how her calling her kids "stupid" for having their stuff on the internet bothered me. I told her I wanted to know how she felt about my search activity, and she basically said she wants me to let it go, that she doesn't think anything of it, I'm not a threat, never have been, she trusts me. She wants me to put the spinning down and move forward. Wish it were that easy. It IS nice to have their gentle care, isn't it? She told me today she cares about my progress, about ME. Made me feel good to know that and hear it again. But yeah, TOUGH does have to step back in and take the reigns, cos I've got a bit too comfortable and need a kick in the pants to get me going! And I KNOW my T will give me that kick now that I've asked for it!

Thanks for your support and encouragement, Monte. It means a great deal, as always!

MTF

Hi Monte,

Thanks! You've got quite the memory!

It was pretty bad, as I sat there most of the time not even looking at my T and feeling disconnected from her. I hate couples sessions. They leave me feeling weird. She spent most of the time trying to convince my husband that putting our oldest son on medication for ADHD would be beneficial, as he (my husband) is strongly opposed to medication and wanted to just try behavioral methods and stuff like that. My husband is fed up with therapy and my therapist, so when she asked him if he was willing to come back in a month he told her no. She asked why and the answer was about me and our marriage, so it made me sad and I left the session feeling pretty depressed about life. We lack a lof of affection, communication, warmth and genuine caring in our marriage, so it is a lonely feeling relationship. It's mostly my fault too, as the emotional deprivation I suffered in childhood caused me to feel smothered by the affection my husband was giving in the early days of our marriage and I pushed him away in many ways. There's a lot of issues there and I've done a lot of damage and I don't think he feels it's repairable, and sometimes I wonder if I can do it myself. Rebuilding trust and love is not easy, that's for sure. Especially when you feel like crap every day and struggle to make it through the day doing the bare necessities.

On a positive note, we are signing on a new home that we'll have to wait on to be built, but that's a big deal for us, as we've rented our whole 16 years of marriage and our boys need more space, and a yard to play. So that's got me feeling pretty happy. Scared about the financial burdens, but glad to have a place of my own finally. And my T is going to flip when I get to tell her the news. I didn't tell her yesterday because I want it to be something I do when I have her all to myself. She's the one who has been pushing me to get into a home, so I think she'll be proud of me, as it took a bit of threating the husband to make it happen! I can't wait to see her reaction, although I'm sure I'm doing that scenario-izing and will be let down when the moment actually comes. I need to make my scenario a bit less exciting I think.

Thanks for asking about me! Means a lot!

MTF

Hey MTF- havn't talked to you in awhile! Nice to see your post. Sorry to horn in on the conversation, but I just wanted to say that I really am happy for you about your house. I've been unhappy with where I live for a long time, and I know that there is nothing I can do to change the situation, and it just makes me more unhappy, and etc... a home that is right for you is so important and a big help towards healing, I'm sure.

I'm sorry that the marriage situation is so hard... I get where you are at with that. I am in early years of my marriage, and feel very smothered by my husband. Initially I wanted him to be everything for me, and I was soooo needy, I couldn't let him out of my sight. I think he enjoyed filling this role. Now I just want him to leave me alone. I prefered the needy feelings to this. It hurts to feel unable to give the one you love the love ydou know they need you to give them. I hate it. Wish soneone would wave a magic wand over my head and change me into an unselfish, giving, affectionate mature and loving wife. It just ain't happening. I admire- that your ability and desire to push through and try at your marriage is shining through your post, whether you can see it or feel it or not, it is pretty obvious, that you want to love your spouse. I am currently confused because I too feel the problems in my marriage are all my fault, my husband is this a sweet man and the victim in all of this... and my T says that is not the case, that in fact he thinks it is two way street. Confusing for me, because my husband does everything for me. But part of me knows he just wants to be on my good side. another part of me says that is normal part of any marriage realtionship. And then a third part chimes in that it wants to be loved by a man, and not a person who just needs to be loved by ME in a motherish, he wants to please me and never oppose me and yeah, smother me kind of way. I wish he had friends. I wish he had interests besides just me. It makes me feel icky. Under a microscope all the time. Then I wonder if this is just normal marriage, and I am the one who can't take having a normal relationship without feeling icky. Ok, sorry for the rant MTF. Let us know how it goes...

BB

BB & Monte,

Nice of you both to stop by! Thanks for your happiness about the house. I understand not being super happy about where you live. Been there for a 16 years. We live in my husband's parents' mother-in-law apartment and have been here for 6 years. Way too long. That is why my T has been pushing for 5 months now for me to get out and into our own place, even if it was an apartment somewhere else. But a home has been on the list and with the U.S. economy and home prices and interest rates being so low, we decided to buy because things might not be so well in our favor again.

quote:

Originally quoted by Blackbird: It hurts to feel unable to give the one you love the love you know they need you to give them. I hate it. Wish soneone would wave a magic wand over my head and change me into an unselfish, giving, affectionate mature and loving wife.

and

quote:

I wish he had friends. I wish he had interests besides just me. It makes me feel icky. Under a microscope all the time. Then I wonder if this is just normal marriage, and I am the one who can't take having a normal relationship without feeling icky.

BB, I too used to want my husband to be everything for me, and he too enjoyed filling that role. Then I pushed him away because he felt too smothering. I also have a husband who doesn't have friends. He has his family next door, and me. It's tough. I know what you mean. I know how you feel, BB. I agree with your T (and Monte). Marriage is a two-way street and it does take two to make things succeed or fail. I know I didn't do all the damage myself, even if I did contribute to most of it. It helps me realize I don't have to repair it all myself either, but yeah, I have an awful lot of responsibility for the repair and it is going to take some real effort. That's why I'm in therapy, as I need the direction and support of my T to help me through it. Otherwise I don't know how I could do it. And God is there to help me, of course. He is the One that really gives me the strength.

quote:

Originally quoted by Monte: It's just that often it seems we women are more inclined to let it all hang out...we are more openly neurotic and tempermental. Men are often so oblivious to their own pain and dysfunction and just don't recognise their part in marital problems.

Amen to that, Monte!! My husband has that same idea and yours that when my issues are resolved, our marriage will be fine. If I would only fix this, or that, things would be great. Yeah, right .

quote:

We do damage our marriages with our stuff, but nothing is irrepairable if both parties are willing to admit their part in things and are willing to commit to their vow to LOVE, for better or worse. Love without that sacrifice doesn't work. In fact love IS sacrifice. And tolerance.

Thanks for that, Monte. I really needed to hear that. I think I oftentimes feel like my husband needs to fix himself, that HE needs to sacrifice more, love me more, when in fact I really need to be the one doing the self-examination and giving more love and sacrifice and tolerance. Things would go a lot smoother, for sure.

quote:

In our early days I was utterly dependent on my husband and had very little to give. At my Ts advice, I just gave where I could, when I could, and let my confidence as a 'giver' in the relationship grow slowly and it did. You will get there MTF, just give what you can when you can.

My T has given similar advice, and I know it works, it's just a matter of following said advice. I will work at it, Monte. Thanks for the reminder. I'm one of those that needs repetition!

And I'll work on making that scenario with my T less exciting in my mind. I know she'll be excited for me, but maybe if I imagine her just saying "whoop-dee-doo", I'll actually be pleased with her response!

Thanks to both of you ladies for replying to my post!!

MTF

Hmmm. Well, my session with my T today didn't go as I had planned. I took a 3 page list/letter of things I was going to read to her and chickened out, again. Last individual session at the beginning of last month I did the same thing. I referenced the papers but mostly just went from memory and only touched on the stuff I felt 'safe' to talk about, you know--the stuff that isn't too scary to open up about. Ugh. I hate myself right now. I felt so disconnected from my T today. I think the fact that it's been a whole month since I had my own session with her makes a big difference. My couples session in between left me really disconnected this last time, and I have to wait almost 4 weeks before I see my T again because she's got a vacation in 2 weeks when I would have seen her. I think I have a hard time opening up when there's already a disconnect and I know it's going to last for a while longer. I miss seeing her every week . Stupid insurance. I guess I should be grateful I have it, but I wish there weren't restrictions on the number of covered visits per year. Rather I wish money weren't an issue and I could go as often as needed. It's hard.

So I didn't tell her how I feel about her. I didn't tell her a lot of stuff. I instead came home and wrote her a letter out of the one I took with me. I think I'll drop it off to her office Monday. She needs to know all of the stuff I can't say even though I can't say it in person. It has to come out one way or another, and unfortunately I just can't do it in her presence. It makes me feel like such a failure, too. She's going to be disappointed in me, as I told her I was done with what I had on my list today. Yeah, right. Liar liar pants on fire. I told her I wouldn't dump anything on her outside of a session again, too. What am I doing??? I wish I could be a grown up and just say what I need to say like a grown up!! Should I drop off the letter, or save it and read it to her in a month? Shudder. The thought of reading it makes me sick. The thought of her having it in hand and not calling me to talk about it but waiting for a whole month to talk about it makes me equally if not more sick. If she called me (which I am not sure she wouldn't do) that would be okay, as I can talk to her more easily on the phone than in person. It's the whole eye contact thing. But if I have to wait it out a whole month I may go nuts. I don't know. I just need her to know this stuff. Now.

Okay, I've rambled and I'm fried and I need to go to bed early tonight. I got my meds changed Tuesday, did A.D.D. testing today with a different T (who told me he was "almost convinced" that I trust my T--nice huh?) and won't get the results until Tuesday next week, then I will see my doctor about meds again. I'm a wreck these days. Sorry I'm not around to support you guys. I feel like you all support me, and I don't do the same for you. I feel like a slug. Thanks for all your support everyone. It really means a lot to me. This is the only place I have in this world to vent and to find people that understand me and what I am feeling and going through. Otherwise it's a lonely world. Thanks for listening and being there.

MTF

MTF,
I'm so sorry, I know how horrible it can be to not connect when you really NEED to connect, especially since you are going through such long breaks. But please be gentle with yourself. What you're trying to do is absolutely terrifying, literally to the point of feeling life threatening. The fact that you're still going back and trying so desparately to get it out speaks to your courage.

quote:

What am I doing??? I wish I could be a grown up and just say what I need to say like a grown up!!

This is the heart of the problem. If this were about being an adult, your condemnation might ring a little true. But the truth is that these feelings are primitive ones from when you were very young, and had no resources. As a matter of fact, a major part of the problem is that you still don't have resources because part of the deprivation was NOT being taught what you needed to know to identify your needs, and get them met, and regulate your distress. You're right up against the bind that makes healing from these kind of long term injuries so difficult. Take a deep breath and think about what you would say to someone else saying what you're saying about yourself and about what you're doing. Would you feel the same way about them? You're not doing anything wrong, you're attempting to something extraordinarily difficult, at a level which many people will NEVER face in their whole life.

AG

MTF,

First off, (((((hugs))))). I want to echo what AG so perfectly stated. This isn't something that you can intellectualize out of or just "stop it". It goes so much deeper than that and that is why it is so hard. I'm so sorry that it is so hard.

Also, I don't know where you are, but I thought you were in the U.S. (umm, duh, just saw that on your location) Anyway, if your insurance offers mental health and regular medical coverage, did you not see a change with the mental health parity law that went into effect this year? It prevents insurance companies from limiting mental health benefits in any way different than they would limit regular medical. My insurance used to limit to 40 visits, but they now have no limit because they don't limit my medical. Just wondering in case there is some chance that your insurance had changed and you didn't realize. Not likely, but worth a shot!

{{{{{{{{MTF}}}}}}}}

AG and STRM already said it so well, but I just wanted to stop by and offer some hugs too. This is such hard work, don't minimize the enormity of what you are trying to do. And the once a month thing, alternating with couples therapy...egads. How torturous...like a drop of water once in a while when you are dying of thirst. And not only that, but now you have to share the drop of water with your husband. I was VERY happy to hear about the new law this year in mental health coverage (didn't know about that STRM, thanks for sharing it!) and I very much hope it turns out that you can schedule sessions more frequently. Let us know what you find out, OK?

Hugs,
SG

MTF

I hear your pain so clearly through what you wrote, I am so sorry you are this difficult place. Oh my gosh, you are so NOT like a slug, please know that MTF if nothing else. I am glad you are getting some support from here - you are so right, it can be a lonely world. I have to force myself to post at the very times I want to shut away, but it's always worth it from the amazing responses. So hang in there MTF, we are all rooting for you,

starfish

Thank you everyone. You are all very kind and help me feel better. I'm just so exhausted and emotionally hashed that I can't write much right now. I wish I were stronger. I wish I knew what to do. Can't decide between waiting a month to give her my letter or take it to her office Monday. No more couples sessions. I don't care to involve my husband anymore and he refuses to go back to see my T. She's too much for him and he doesn't like to be accountable to her. A month is going to be too long.

Thanks for your support ladies. It really means a lot.

MTF

MTF,
I am so sorry you are in so much pain right now. A month without your T sounds excruciating. I know STRM already asked, but have you checked with your insurance co? I had a 40 visit limit last year, and assumed it was the same for this year, but just called and found out I have unlimited visits this year (of course, that is only after I pay the RIDICULOUS cobra premium for the next 3 months, and after that I will have NO insurance. My husband needs a job. now.) Sorry to add to your pain if it does not apply for you, but wanted to let you know just in case. Oh, I so feel for you MTF. It sounds really difficult - your couples sessions not going well, and your T going on vacation. Is it possible for you to get an appt before she leaves? Have you been able to step back and breathe at all? I wish I had some magical soothing words. You sound so anxious and I know when I feel that way, it is difficult to make any decisions at all. I also want to say that you have given a lot of support on this forum. Please try to give yourself a break. You are NOT a slug (starfish it right!) You are doing the work right now - this is the work. It feels hard because it is hard - and you are doing it. Please try to see how brave you really are.

Hi, MTF, I just want to add that I am thinking of you right now and feeling your pain and struggle. It seems likely you are experiencing the "come here, go away" dance of disorganized attachment. You desperately want and need to connect with her, but your fear holds you back because it doesn't feel safe enough. Then mix some shame into the recipe for being undecided and frozen about it all, and it can become unbearably miserable! It is an experience many of us know well.

I wish I could tell you for sure that it is truly safe to share those 3 pages with your T, and that it would all go positively, but I can't. Maybe it isn't safe. Or maybe it is but what is required is a giant leap of faith to prove it. You may have to wrestle with this over and over in bits and pieces. I personally think before you can decide what to do you will have to feel something in your gut that tells you that you are strong enough to put her to the test, regardless of the outcome. MTF, if/when you do decide to share yourself more deeply with your T, please try to believe in yourself that you are worth this risk! You instinctively know you need to be on this journey to heal, whether with this T or even with another one. (((Hugs!)))

Thanks again for the support, ladies.

I feel better today. My head has become a bit clearer and I've worked on cleaning up my letter some so it's not so much an attack on my T as a disclosure of feelings that have been buried under a lot of fear and shame. I think I harbor a lot of anger towards my T for not helping me feel safe enough to express my feelings and she needs to know that I don't feel safe with her. She asks me what she can do to help me feel safe, but I never know the answer to that question. It's time I gave it some thought because I deperately need to feel safe enough to open up to my T in her presence instead of feeling like I have to do everything scary from a distance. Therapy isn't therapy if it's got to be that way.

AG:

quote:

What you're trying to do is absolutely terrifying, literally to the point of feeling life threatening. The fact that you're still going back and trying so desparately to get it out speaks to your courage.

Thank you. I feel like such a coward that it helps me so much to have someone validate that I am actually not a coward but showing some courage here. Also:

quote:

You're not doing anything wrong, you're attempting to something extraordinarily difficult, at a level which many people will NEVER face in their whole life.

Thanks for this. It makes me feel empowered.


STRM:

Thanks for the hugs and encouragement. The support means a lot. You have helped me a lot on the forums with your support and advice and I appreciate it a great deal! As far as the insurance goes, I only get 25 visits per year. I don't know why my insurance wasn't affected by the new law. I should look into it though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. It would be great if I had unlimited visits, and I'm happy for those that benefited from that law.


SG:

Thanks for the hugs, and the support. It means a lot!! I'm a good minimizer, but I'll try to work at it.


Starfish:

quote:

I have to force myself to post at the very times I want to shut away, but it's always worth it from the amazing responses.

Yes, I feel that way too, and I agree with you that the amazing responses are always worth it. All of you here are such a blessing and I am so grateful for this amazing place. It's a tremendous blessing in my life right now. Thank you for being a part of it!


Dragonfly:

Thank you for your kind words. You are right, I didn't come away and give up, I am still trying. Thanks for the reminder. I WILL share my concerns with my T soon. Thank you for the encouragement and support.


Hi SB:

Good to hear from you again! Yes, I have been able to step back and breathe. It took me a bit of time to do so though. Sometimes I get so anxious it takes me a whole day to calm down enough to see reality again. I hate that.

quote:

You are doing the work right now - this is the work. It feels hard because it is hard - and you are doing it. Please try to see how brave you really are.

Thanks for the reminder. I often forget that therapy is hard work. I guess it's been so hard for the past 9 months that I keep wondering when it's going to lighten up a bit. Maybe it won't. At least not for a while. Life isn't meant to be easy, is it? Darn. At least I can hope for healing if I put forth the effort and do the work. Thanks for your support, SB!


MH:

quote:

It seems likely you are experiencing the "come here, go away" dance of disorganized attachment. You desperately want and need to connect with her, but your fear holds you back because it doesn't feel safe enough. Then mix some shame into the recipe for being undecided and frozen about it all, and it can become unbearably miserable! It is an experience many of us know well.

It is so nice to feel understood somewhere. I don't feel like my T undestands this about me at all. Maybe I keep it hidden too well, I don't know.

quote:

I wish I could tell you for sure that it is truly safe to share those 3 pages with your T, and that it would all go positively, but I can't. Maybe it isn't safe. Or maybe it is but what is required is a giant leap of faith to prove it.

I wish you could tell me, too. What I need is a fortune teller! LOL!! I know it's going to take some faith and yeah, overcoming lots of fear.

quote:

I personally think before you can decide what to do you will have to feel something in your gut that tells you that you are strong enough to put her to the test, regardless of the outcome.

I agree. I feel like it's now or never finally. I can't take it anymore. She has to either get with it or tell me she can't deal with me. NOW. I've gone on with this up-and-down roller coaster crap for 9 months now and I'm ready to be done. That's as long as a pregnancy only it feels like 9 months of labor. Where's the baby? I want a happier ending than I'm getting. I know therapy isn't all happiness and that it can be and oftentimes is painful, not just tough, but I've been through my share of hell already and I need a break from it.

quote:

please try to believe in yourself that you are worth this risk! You instinctively know you need to be on this journey to heal, whether with this T or even with another one.

Thanks, MH! I needed to hear that, and all of what you had to say. I appreciate your supportive encouragement!


Monte:

quote:

for me the solution hasn't been so much about getting brave...more about becoming desperate...thinking, 'Oh shit I don't care how stupid this looks, I've got to get this process moving!' So I acted on my desperation and it got some results. Maybe desperation is an effective vehicle for tasks that require strengths we are yet to develop (trust, courage etc).

I think you're absolutely right. I'm at that point of desperation myself. My T isn't getting it and I'm desperate for her to see that either she helps me now, or I'm going to quit. I can't take this anymore. And yeah, the trust and courage are lacking, so maybe the desperation will help me get there! I hope so! Look what it did for you! It gives me hope.

quote:

She won't be disappointed MTF...well maybe just a bit for you, but it's not going to be a problem for her. At the end of the day this is about you and your need to communicate and it doesn't matter if the delivery method is less than ideal. I wish I could be a 'grown-up' and express my needs too. If I could though, I guess I wouldn't be seeing a counsellor and drawing pictures to communicate. Good grief...I feel so stupid doing that. But I think it is our right to be as weak as our handicap makes us and to have this as our starting point. If we manage to move up a notch now and again, fabulous, but if we fall back that's ok, we are allowed to, it's why we are there. No doubt you've watched your children learn to walk? How often would they fall back to all fours and crawl again? Walking is hard work when you're learning how to do it...crawling gets you there quicker and safer! It works, you know it works! Verbalising our needs in person is so hard to do, a letter or an email works and like crawling for a new walker, it's also quicker and safer...until you learn how to verbalise without losing balance and falling and hurting yourself etc.

Thanks for that. By the way, I think your pictures are a wonderful way to communicate, so please don't discount them. They're what got you where you are at with your T! But I do see your point, and I appreciate your analogy to the walking baby. You always manage to put things in a way that make great sense to me and help pull me out of my dark cloud. Thanks, Monte!!

quote:

But whatever you decide, you have a right to do the less than perfect/brave thing.

Thanks. It's nice to have that validation. I think I'll take her the letter. This time it's about her, and last time it was about her. She needs to read it herself so she has it in hand and can internalize it and really get what I'm saying. She can have time to think about what I've written before I see her rather than feeling like she has to just give me the quickest answer she can come up with off the top of her head. Last time I really got nothing at all because I just read it straight through with no pauses and we didn't talk about it, she just apologized. I really want her to read it all, every word. There are pros and cons to both ways of course, but I think she needs to have this one to think about for a while. I may be setting myself up for major disappointment, but I think she'll call me and try to get me in before my next scheduled session when she reads that I won't see her for almost a month. She knows I spin about this stuff and I doubt she'll want to leave me spinning for that long. But maybe she'll be pissed that I dumped this on her and she'll let me deal with it alone for the month. Who knows. Ugh. It's going to be hard either way, but I need to get it off my chest A.S.A.P..

Monte, I'm glad you got things going with your therapy. It gives me a lot of hope that I can get mine going, too. I've got my gas tank filled up, the helmet on, and the motor is revving. Now I just have to hit the gas pedal with all the force I can give it. Wish me luck!


Thanks again, everyone!! You are all so wonderful!!

MTF

Hi MTF.... well, you have already received a lot of great support and wise words of advice so I don't have much to add here. But I did want to bring up something that you wrote about your T asking what she could do to make you feel safe because you are still struggling with that. What AG mentioned somewhere on here awhile ago is that ... your T cannot just tell you she is safe... she has to BE SAFE, you have to experience her BEING safe for you and not just once but over and over again until you form those new neuro pathways in your brain. Developing that safety with a T is the longest and hardest part of therapy, especially in those with abuse histories and attachment issues. Wouldn't it be easy of they could just tell us they are safe and that would be it? I'm working with a wonderful T for over 2 years now and I STILL backslide on the feeling safe issue. Please don't be too hard on yourself in establishing trust and safety...it just takes time and many opportunities to experience that safety with your T.

One other thing that my T tells me often. When I get surprised at times at how well he knows me I will tell him just that... wow you know me SO well. He just smiles at me and says, "that's because you allow me to know you". T's dont' read minds or have crystal balls, they can only know us to the extent that we let them in to know us. This comes with time and that difficult safety issue. You have not been with your T for very long considering what you are working on and I think you need to be kind to yourself where this is concerned. One step at a time. Good luck and thinking of you.

TN

Hi MTF,

I'm sorry I'm so late in responding. I really don't have much to say besides I think you are being so brave and courageous. I'm so sorry your last session didn't go very well - I only had a small taste of that (disappointing session + long time between sessions) with my last T, and it was so discouraging, disheartening, and incredibly frustrating. Just dealing with that and not being totally beaten down is incredible. I think I would have given up. Best of luck with giving the letter to your T. I will be thinking of you.

Big hugs

TN:

quote:

your T cannot just tell you she is safe... she has to BE SAFE, you have to experience her BEING safe for you and not just once but over and over again until you form those new neuro pathways in your brain. Developing that safety with a T is the longest and hardest part of therapy, especially in those with abuse histories and attachment issues.

This is what I've been trying to put my finger on but haven't been able to. Thanks for defining it here for me. I think my T must not get it that she has to BE safe at all times. I don't know if she understands that she has to work on that constant connection with me to help me feel safe or what? Sometimes I feel like there IS no connection. She has so many patients I know it's got to be hard for her. It is frustrating. Thanks for pointing out that it takes a lot of time to establish trust and safety. I figured 9 months IS a long time, but your 2 years sounds a lot longer, so I guess some continued patience is in order.

quote:

He just smiles at me and says, "that's because you allow me to know you". T's dont' read minds or have crystal balls, they can only know us to the extent that we let them in to know us. This comes with time and that difficult safety issue.

This is what I'm hoping my letter will do is let my T in to know me a little better. I'm always hiding from her and this letter will help her 'see' me a bit more and understand where I'm at. I agree with you that until we make ourselves known there is no way our Ts can really know us. It's a bit scary, though. Thank you for your input, TN. It has been helpful and encouraging!


Kashley:

Thanks for the encouragement and support. You're not late. It's never late! And thanks for the good luck wishes. I need all of those I can get!!

MTF

quote:

quote:
your T cannot just tell you she is safe... she has to BE SAFE, you have to experience her BEING safe for you and not just once but over and over again until you form those new neuro pathways in your brain. Developing that safety with a T is the longest and hardest part of therapy, especially in those with abuse histories and attachment issues.

This is what I've been trying to put my finger on but haven't been able to. Thanks for defining it here for me. I think my T must not get it that she has to BE safe at all times. I don't know if she understands that she has to work on that constant connection with me to help me feel safe or what? Sometimes I feel like there IS no connection. She has so many patients I know it's got to be hard for her. It is frustrating. Thanks for pointing out that it takes a lot of time to establish trust and safety. I figured 9 months IS a long time, but your 2 years sounds a lot longer, so I guess some continued patience is in order.

TN is very wise. This is so true and your response about the length of time is what I wanted to comment on. I don't think (speaking from my experience) that it is necessarily something you "arrive" at after a certain period of time and then once you are there you are always going to be there. I know for me, it took a LONG time before I trusted my T and felt safe with her. That still varies and comes and goes. Part of that may be that I have different parts, but part of it is just a function of it being a relationship and like other relationships it takes work. The trust is there and is built up and then (as we all know) sometimes things happen to hurt that trust and then we have to work up to it again.

I also like the quote from TN about T's only knowing you to the extent that you know them. That has been very true for me as well. The increase in trust and closeness has come with my increase in taking risks and letting my T in more. It is scary as heck to do it, but if I don't it still feels like she's "out there" and I'm stuck "in here".

I hope that your letter says what you need for it to say and that it is well received by your T. You are very brave!

STRM:

The more I think about all this, the more I realize that I don't let my T 'see' me. I am scared of her seeing me because I'm afraid she'll run. I think she'll despise the real me if she sees past the façade. I'm always sure to put my best face forward, look my best, etc. I'm sure she knows I'm hiding, but doesn't know how to break down the wall. She doesn't try very hard, either. I guess maybe I want her to push me, to know that she WANTS to see me, to understand me, to know me. I don't feel like she wants any of that, and it hurts. I feel like she's fine to stay where we're at and that bothers me a lot. I feel like she doesn't want to explore my feelings about her, like she doesn't care to know what is inside of me. I have sort of brought that up in my letter, but maybe I need to elaborate on it a bit more so she really gets it. It's a deep source of pain for me. And yes, the more I know my T, the more comfortable I feel with her, the more I trust her. Only thing is, she's more willing to talk about her kids than about herself. I wish she would get that it's info about HER that I need. I've tried to tell her that in my letter, too. Maybe I need to be more elaborate on that issue as well. Thanks for bringing this stuff out again in your reply. The more it gets focused on the more I'm realizing its importance. Thank you, STRM!!

MTF

MTF,

Yes, I think the more you can hone in on the source of the trouble for you in the relationship the better. I think it is hard to open up when you don't know much about your T. I know very little about my T and most of what I do know I found out on my own, not because she told me. She rarely speaks of anything personal and when she does it is always pretty generic. It does bother me sometimes that I know so little about her (and yet I'm supposed to be an open book), but at the same time if she does share about something going on in her life then I know that I will start to consider her feelings and life outside of T even more than I already do. She has spoken vaguely about something really bad that happened to her that caused her to seek treatment with EMDR. She never did say what it was, but I know. I had suspected from the first time I saw her, but wasn't sure and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it all together. I have never let her know that I know, but I think she must suspect that I do. It does influence what I say about certain things because I feel guilty saying them in light of her situation. Make sense? Anyway, I'm really just rambling now.

I hope that you are able to have an open discussion with your T about all of this after she reads your letter. It is so important!

Hi Monte,

Yesterday was our Independence Day observed, so no one was in the office. Tried this morning but the door was locked. I rode the elevator up with another T and almost asked her to give it to my T, and once I found the door locked (that T went in another direction) I wished I had. I will go back in a bit and try again when I'm sure the door is open. Yes, the angst is going to be awful, as I've had a knot in my stomach already this morning just in anticipation of what's going to happen. You know, the scenario-izing stuff. Ugh. Thanks for the empathy and prayers. I need them both!! And thanks for the confidence in my T. She is a good lady, I need to be reminded of that. I'll post when/if I hear anything from her, and most likely I'll post if I don't, too!

MTF

Oooooo MTF, you are being so brave and it's so hard. Good luck when you try tomorrow (((((MTF)))}}

starfish

Hi all, What a very interseting post and very intersting and helpful answers. It is very hard to put yourself in the 'danger zone' as i call it, and due to tranference issues with an ex T i feel i do not have a connection with my present T. This drives me nuts, im sure it is because of the boundaries she has put around our relationship. I have been seeing her for 4 years now and it is a little easier talking about most things because there is no connection, but now i feel as though i need to step outside my comfort zone and push myself some more, yet that is so hard to do. I too feel she does not push me at all she lets me do the talking with some imput, this may be because my friends and family like to tell me how to live and what to do too often. I know i fight against it if they push those buttons.
I wonder what you all think about the no connection thing, am i just expecting something i am used to from my ex T. Am i expecting to much from my present T.

Eve

MTF- Excuse me for butting in,i know you have heard this before from others, The onr thing that is helpful and positive is that we all on this site understand and we can all give each other the HUGS!!! we need when we cannot get them in any other way.

Hi Eve,

You bring up an interesting point about your T keeping firm boundaries because of transference with an ex-T. I hadn't considered that before but it makes me wonder if my T is doing anything like this with me because of issues with my ex-physical therapist and my boundary issues with him. Hmmm. Anyway, thanks for bringing that up, as it's something to think about.

As far as your T not having a connection with you and it being 4 years, I don't know what to say other than for me personally, that's WAY too long. I've been with my T for 9 months and that's already way too long for me. I am one that needs that connection to be able to trust my T and move forward with the healing work I need to do. My trust with her is pretty shaky right now because our connection grows and then falters, if you know what I mean. I can't do that. I know to an extent that it's normal to have ups and downs in relationships, but when one party seems to be inconsistent it makes it harder than usual. Anyway, I think your situation sounds tough. I hope you can get some help. If I were you I would start my own thread on the forums and try to get some answers that way as this isn't the busiest thread. Good luck to you, Eve.

MTF

Starfish,

I dropped it off this morning. Now I just sit and wait. I hate this part the most. That and every time the phone rings. I'll let you all know when I have anything to report. Thanks for the support!

MTF

Thinking of you MTF

You were very brave to drop off the letter. I hope it brings you answers and comfort when she gives a response. ((((MTF))))

Eve hi there!

Couldn’t help but pick up on this comment:

quote:

I have been seeing her for 4 years now and it is a little easier talking about most things because there is no connection, but now i feel as though i need to step outside my comfort zone and push myself some more, yet that is so hard to do. I too feel she does not push me at all she lets me do the talking with some imput,

Eve thanks for putting into words something that’s been bothering me with this lack of connection to T issue. That because there is no connection it’s easier to talk about most things. And that’s an issue for me because yes it’s easy to talk about all sorts of stuff but the kinds of things I talk about are actually painful and threatening to me, and because of the lack of connection I always feel detached as if I’m just describing stuff about someone else (not me) to someone not particularly interested in it anyway and therefore the emotional value of talking about these things is lost. So the things don’t get resolved because they’re neither understood nor properly validated and the issues just carry on being issues.

And that she lets you do the talking - that is exactly what bothers me about most of the Ts I’ve seen - this sense of being allowed to rabbit on and on about anything and everything with no sense that the T is slotting it all into an overall picture of me in order to pull it together and find some way of guiding me to where I need to go.

Eve four years is a long time! You can push yourself yes, but it’s pretty hard to do that in a vacuum - I’d suggest talking to her about what you’ve said here, but at the same time am thinking that if after four years you don’t feel a connection and find that she isn’t particularly involved in your therapy, it could be difficult to get her to understand what you are needing. It’s worth a try though (of course my immediate thought is maybe you want to consider finding a new T - but I’m not sure whether that’s what you want to hear?)

And for what it’s worth, no I don’t think you are expecting too much from your present T.

LL