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Oh Frosty,
I don't know why T is being hard on you. Maybe it's her style and she's just not the T for you. I'm so glad you are going on the consult.
I have learned that if one feels loved and valued at home, then all those negative comments that we all invariably have to deal with to one degree or another, don't hurt so much. If your mother wrapped her arms around you and told you you were wonderful and beautiful when bad things happened to you and you had a supportive home environment, IMO it takes away the sting of the negative things in the environment. T is right to some extent. People say stupid and mean things all the time because it makes them feel good about themselves. And, if we let their comments stick to us, we make ourselves a victim. But if you don't have support at home, how are you supposed to counteract the mud being thrown at you????
T has to know this. I'm confused about her approach. Maybe she's trying to get at how you feel about your family??? But on the other hand, if you've never had support, how would you even know how to verbalize that that's what is missing from your life?????
Don't know if I've said anything that's relevant. But I don't like the way T talks to you either, like she's minimizing your experience somehow. It sounds to me like you've had enough of that. Unless she's doing that to get you angry.
I don't know why T is being hard on you. Maybe it's her style and she's just not the T for you. I'm so glad you are going on the consult.
I have learned that if one feels loved and valued at home, then all those negative comments that we all invariably have to deal with to one degree or another, don't hurt so much. If your mother wrapped her arms around you and told you you were wonderful and beautiful when bad things happened to you and you had a supportive home environment, IMO it takes away the sting of the negative things in the environment. T is right to some extent. People say stupid and mean things all the time because it makes them feel good about themselves. And, if we let their comments stick to us, we make ourselves a victim. But if you don't have support at home, how are you supposed to counteract the mud being thrown at you????
T has to know this. I'm confused about her approach. Maybe she's trying to get at how you feel about your family??? But on the other hand, if you've never had support, how would you even know how to verbalize that that's what is missing from your life?????
Don't know if I've said anything that's relevant. But I don't like the way T talks to you either, like she's minimizing your experience somehow. It sounds to me like you've had enough of that. Unless she's doing that to get you angry.
Hi Permafrost,
I am sorry you are struggling with your sessions at the moment. I am not thinking 'go to another T already' because I can see you really want to make it work with this T. However, saying that I am happy to read that you will be going for a consult as it sounds like you may have hit a brick wall with your current T. I understand the CBT approach focues on thoughts and behavious and I wonder if it would be helpful for you to have a T who can also help you explore the reasons behind the behaviours a little more deeply and perhaps with a little more care. This may not be the case but it does sound like you aren't receiving the understanding that you would like from your current T.
(((Frosty)))
Butterfly
I am sorry you are struggling with your sessions at the moment. I am not thinking 'go to another T already' because I can see you really want to make it work with this T. However, saying that I am happy to read that you will be going for a consult as it sounds like you may have hit a brick wall with your current T. I understand the CBT approach focues on thoughts and behavious and I wonder if it would be helpful for you to have a T who can also help you explore the reasons behind the behaviours a little more deeply and perhaps with a little more care. This may not be the case but it does sound like you aren't receiving the understanding that you would like from your current T.
(((Frosty)))
Butterfly
Frosty,
CBT includes feelings in there. My T has this little triangle with thoughts at one angle, feelings at another and behaviors at another with arrows going in all directions. But the problem is, if you didn't came from a family who labeled your feelings for you, and Frosty in the time that I've come to know you, I feel pretty certain this is the case, that you are unable to label your feelings yourself. Not only did your family not label your feelings, they were probably ignored and told that they weren't important?
She may be trying to nudge you a little in the feeling direction but it just feels like hurt to you, like she doesn't get you???
CBT includes feelings in there. My T has this little triangle with thoughts at one angle, feelings at another and behaviors at another with arrows going in all directions. But the problem is, if you didn't came from a family who labeled your feelings for you, and Frosty in the time that I've come to know you, I feel pretty certain this is the case, that you are unable to label your feelings yourself. Not only did your family not label your feelings, they were probably ignored and told that they weren't important?
She may be trying to nudge you a little in the feeling direction but it just feels like hurt to you, like she doesn't get you???
Sorry Liese, didn't mean to imply that CBT ignores feelings, I just know some T's who practice CBT (most definitely not all) can be very focused on behaviours.
Butterfly
Butterfly
Frosty,
I am sorry you are feeling ganged up on by T at the moment. I know how frustrating and downright hurtful it feels when our Ts don't give us the warmth and support we need, but instead push us in ways that feel like they are no longer on our side.
However, I have to admit that it has been interesting reading this post for me because as an outsider, I have a completely different take on this than I do when it happens to me in my own therapy. I really do think your T is trying to help you. I think perhaps she is trying to make light of your condition in an effort not so much to normalize it or accept it, but to remove the intense fear and stigma around it.
My Ts seem to be doing the same things with me regarding my bulimia. I want more sensitivity and warmth from them but its almost like they've just come to accept it and I think its because they are trying to remove the shame and stigma surrounding it, perhaps to make it easier for me to talk.
I am sorry you are feeling ganged up on by T at the moment. I know how frustrating and downright hurtful it feels when our Ts don't give us the warmth and support we need, but instead push us in ways that feel like they are no longer on our side.
However, I have to admit that it has been interesting reading this post for me because as an outsider, I have a completely different take on this than I do when it happens to me in my own therapy. I really do think your T is trying to help you. I think perhaps she is trying to make light of your condition in an effort not so much to normalize it or accept it, but to remove the intense fear and stigma around it.
My Ts seem to be doing the same things with me regarding my bulimia. I want more sensitivity and warmth from them but its almost like they've just come to accept it and I think its because they are trying to remove the shame and stigma surrounding it, perhaps to make it easier for me to talk.
Interesting point, LG. And you're right, it's really not so much the bulimia or allergy that needs to be talked about because they are the symptoms, not the causes.
Frosty,
Sorry you are feeling pushed and unreceived. I don't think I could work with that sort of therapy. I'm not saying it is bad for everyone, but the relationship I had with my parents would mean I would completely shut down my feelings and just do what I'm told to avoid dealing with how afraid that T would make me.
I'm glad you are going on a consult. I don't think it is a negative reflection on either you or T if your styles don't match. I'm sure she does care and want what's best for you. Maybe you can find a way to "teach" her ways that will help her work with you.
Sorry you are feeling pushed and unreceived. I don't think I could work with that sort of therapy. I'm not saying it is bad for everyone, but the relationship I had with my parents would mean I would completely shut down my feelings and just do what I'm told to avoid dealing with how afraid that T would make me.
I'm glad you are going on a consult. I don't think it is a negative reflection on either you or T if your styles don't match. I'm sure she does care and want what's best for you. Maybe you can find a way to "teach" her ways that will help her work with you.quote:I mean, telling me "tough luck" because I won't eat stuff at a party? what sort of reply is that?
Yeah, that's pretty shitty. I am wondering if that was her attempt at pointing out that you do have a choice and its unfortunate that you are choosing to make it difficult for yourself at the party. *Please note that this is NOT what I am saying. just my take on what some of these CBT Ts think about things. Its OUR choice to have fears, etc. * It can be rather insensitive of them, but again I do think that they are trying to point out that things don't have to be this way for us if we choose a different path.
oh, and to answer your question about whether it makes it easier for me to talk about my bulimia when my Ts make no big deal out of it....um, No. Why are they so stupid sometimes?!!
quote:um, No. Why are they so stupid sometimes?!!
Ha! I sometimes think the same thing when my T is so obviously off base on what will make me feel safe or comfortable. Luckily, when I confront him on it, he has been willing to change as much as he feels capable...so far.
Frosty,
I can only talk from personal experience. I'm awful at labeling feelings. I was making an assumption about your family and jumping to conclusions. I'm awful at labeling feelings because it wasn't done in my family. Emotions were ignored, not even tolerated. On top of it, things were a bit depressing and stressful in my FOO. And, so I didn't get enough exposure to positive feelings: tenderness, warmth, sensitivtiy. I didn't even know what they felt like. I'm not sure and I do a lot of guessing, but I think my T sometimes has me FEEL things in my relationship with him that I've never felt before and then I can feel the difference between what I had growing up and what is healthy and also be able to label them. He could tell me: you don't know what tenderness feels like. And, I'd be like, yeah, you are right. But until I can actually FEEL it, I won't know what it is. Capice???? Did I spell that right??? SO, I'm sorry if I'm making a big assumption here. Just from what I know of your family background, it sounds a little emotionally bereft.
I can only talk from personal experience. I'm awful at labeling feelings. I was making an assumption about your family and jumping to conclusions. I'm awful at labeling feelings because it wasn't done in my family. Emotions were ignored, not even tolerated. On top of it, things were a bit depressing and stressful in my FOO. And, so I didn't get enough exposure to positive feelings: tenderness, warmth, sensitivtiy. I didn't even know what they felt like. I'm not sure and I do a lot of guessing, but I think my T sometimes has me FEEL things in my relationship with him that I've never felt before and then I can feel the difference between what I had growing up and what is healthy and also be able to label them. He could tell me: you don't know what tenderness feels like. And, I'd be like, yeah, you are right. But until I can actually FEEL it, I won't know what it is. Capice???? Did I spell that right??? SO, I'm sorry if I'm making a big assumption here. Just from what I know of your family background, it sounds a little emotionally bereft.
Do it Frosty, do it!!!! Text her!!! Only if you want. 
quote:Hi Butterfly! Do you mean have 2 Ts or just one who does it all? No, understanding isn't really there, is it. thank you for my hugs!!
I meant just the one T but perhaps someone who can meet all your needs but I do understand that you would like to work things through with this T so I think your consult is a good idea.
I agree why not text her and say that you would rather she responded by text and not to call.
Butterfly
You could say, "When we meet next, I would like to discuss some things that were said in our last session that I was hurt by. "
Or if you want to be more specific, you could say, "I felt (fill in the blank) when you said, (fill in the blank)."
Or if you want to be more specific, you could say, "I felt (fill in the blank) when you said, (fill in the blank)."
Hi, Frosty! I'm sorry that your T is being so...insensitive shall we say. Of course you want to work it out- you've invested a lot, and you probably sense that she still has something to offer you. What I am wondering is if you are hoping to be able to "flip the switch" with her, and get some of the emotional connection and understanding of how painful these phobias are for you? It doesn't sound like she will be forthcoming with that kind of thing...and that sucks. You simply need to be understood where you are at with this pain, and not be judged for not be able to control it all right away and just stop doing the behavior. It's just not that simple. The behavior exists for a very good reason- unless you get to the underlying root causes of the behavior, it will be too painful and difficult to give the behavior up by yourself without adequate emotional support in the interim. yikes! I cringe to even think of it!
I just wanted to offer you some sympathy, sweetie, as well, on the food allergy thing. My little boy has multiple severe food allergies to very common products- and I do not think it is at all irrational to have developed a phobia around eating those foods, or parts of those foods. It is terrifying, and life-threatening stuff, and I myself have a phobia around him getting certain things that I know are *probably* ok. I also have a deep fear of the epi-pen, and having to use it on him. It is no small thing to have life threatening allergies, and I think you should treat yourself very, very gently around the subject of eating these foods. It really is scary, Frosty. You've been very brave to try, even once, to eat the foods you did, so if you aren't able to give yourself a little bit of credit there, well I'm going to do it- good job!
I think it is great you do a consult. I wonder if you could do a combo of therapies, or if one would interfere with the other. I don't know much about that- other's here are better equipped to advice about the trials and travails of having two or more T's...
sending comforting hugs,
BB
I just wanted to offer you some sympathy, sweetie, as well, on the food allergy thing. My little boy has multiple severe food allergies to very common products- and I do not think it is at all irrational to have developed a phobia around eating those foods, or parts of those foods. It is terrifying, and life-threatening stuff, and I myself have a phobia around him getting certain things that I know are *probably* ok. I also have a deep fear of the epi-pen, and having to use it on him. It is no small thing to have life threatening allergies, and I think you should treat yourself very, very gently around the subject of eating these foods. It really is scary, Frosty. You've been very brave to try, even once, to eat the foods you did, so if you aren't able to give yourself a little bit of credit there, well I'm going to do it- good job!
I think it is great you do a consult. I wonder if you could do a combo of therapies, or if one would interfere with the other. I don't know much about that- other's here are better equipped to advice about the trials and travails of having two or more T's...
sending comforting hugs,
BB
ps- if you are comfortable to share, how it is that you would now be trying eating food that you are allergic to- are they previous allergies that have resolved?
quote:Originally posted by permafrost:
she's going to be angry.
1. You don't know that.
2. If she is, do you think that would be an appropriate reaction from her?
quote:Originally posted by permafrost:quote:2. If she is, do you think that would be an appropriate reaction from her?
No
oh LG, if you have nothing better to do, will you wait here for a while?
Right here and waiting!
Yeah, what did she say?
Say something along the lines of, "I was upset by the comment "tough luck" when I expressed my anxiety over going to the party".
You could say you felt like it was minimizing your distress, dismissive of your anxiety, etc.
You aren't being difficult.
I don't think you should be saying you are like a stubborn kid who won't eat their veggies because now YOU are the one who is minimizing your anxiety.
quote:Originally posted by permafrost:
I said, well, I meant in her eyes.
Got it. You were saying she makes you feel like you are just a stubborn kid...etc.
Frosty,
So proud of you!!!
So proud of you!!!
YAY, Frosty! 
Well then you need to tell her what it was a question of, that's all. You have all weekend to think about it.
Frosty! you texted! (yeah- this is a big deal in therapy-world.) You did very well. I'm feeling your disappointment about her response. The "have a nice evening" is what would have gotten me. total misunderstanding of where you are at. She should have left it at: we can talk about this next time..." but T's are human. Glad she texted you back! that's a decent sign! if she had ignored your text that would have been *really* hard to take.
Don't worry about responding to me re: the allergy stuff. I understand your anxiety- and it's valid- was all I was trying to convey.
Hugs, Frosty---
BB
Don't worry about responding to me re: the allergy stuff. I understand your anxiety- and it's valid- was all I was trying to convey.
Hugs, Frosty---
BB
Frosty,
Sorry to hear that you can't meet with consult T till summer. Summer is not too far away. Why not book and in the meantime, keep plugging away to see if things get ready with your T. Maybe your T will be able to show her personhood and empathy. Maybe she wants you to ask for it. I know I know, it's hard to ask for something when you don't know exactly what it is you want or you've been turned down before ... but just maybe .... My T just seems so much nicer now that I've admitted my neediness. So much more caring. I keep telling him, you're so much nicer now. He just smiles. I thought he'd push me away if I was needy but just the opposite has happened. It feels kind of nice Frosty. I'd recommend it highly.
Sorry to hear that you can't meet with consult T till summer. Summer is not too far away. Why not book and in the meantime, keep plugging away to see if things get ready with your T. Maybe your T will be able to show her personhood and empathy. Maybe she wants you to ask for it. I know I know, it's hard to ask for something when you don't know exactly what it is you want or you've been turned down before ... but just maybe .... My T just seems so much nicer now that I've admitted my neediness. So much more caring. I keep telling him, you're so much nicer now. He just smiles. I thought he'd push me away if I was needy but just the opposite has happened. It feels kind of nice Frosty. I'd recommend it highly.
Could the P you want to see maybe refer you to a colleague that he feels has a similar approach?
Hey (((frosty)))
Yaku's idea is a good one but I would also make an appt with the 'chosen' P as a back up - can't hurt
and again, keep trying to work with current T and maybe challenge comments like "she's not going to walk on egg shells".
It's so hard with Ts sometimes - mine recently asked what I wanted from her and I swear the mind went blank and I 'think' I said something like I had no idea - it wasn't helped that it was a difficult session and she had the shits which threw me way off!!!!
Sorry for the ramble
Take care ((frosty))
Morgs
Yaku's idea is a good one but I would also make an appt with the 'chosen' P as a back up - can't hurt
and again, keep trying to work with current T and maybe challenge comments like "she's not going to walk on egg shells".It's so hard with Ts sometimes - mine recently asked what I wanted from her and I swear the mind went blank and I 'think' I said something like I had no idea - it wasn't helped that it was a difficult session and she had the shits which threw me way off!!!!
Sorry for the ramble
Take care ((frosty))
Morgs
quote:I barked at T several times this session and she didn’t back off a bit or asked why I was so upset. She once again was oblivious to my emotions.
Based on my very limited knowledge of the session, I respectfully disagree.
Therapists are trained to be very conscious of their demeanor, voice and tone in response to clients. It sounds to me like she was being callous on purpose, like she was trying to stir you up, to get you to question your fears in the first place. The reason is probably because you did try to get over your phobias by sampling some of the foods you're scared of, but then you went back to not eating them again - your T probably interprets that as a step backwards, and is trying to push you to question yourself.
The bottom line is: your T IS pushing you, because he is literally paid to push you, that is his job...getting over a phobia is really, really difficult from what I hear, so he will probably continue to push you.
It's up to your to decide whether or not that strategy works for you, or if a different therapy approach might work better. I don't know much about CBT, but I am doing DBT and that is working well for my issue (non-phobia related).