(((((JONES)))))

I'm so sorry you're struggling with this situation with your T leaving and the T she wants to transfer you to.

quote:

I know I'm being SO triggered here, this is a lot like my relationship with my mum... pretending I trusted her utterly so as not to hurt her, meantime looking after myself.... Anyway, I guess when it comes down to it she doesn't know some of the background here, that I've had inexperienced Ts before and so on... or @#&%#, I don't know, she just didn't HEAR me about my needs, or forgot. This is what really really sucks and hurts. She tried, but it wasn't good enough. And I HAVE to think something else was getting in the way, or why wouldn't she come back to my list of priorities and be guided by that? Especially when she was saying she was so concerned about NOT meeting my needs. I don't understand.

This really alarms me. I'm sorry you haven't been able to trust your T fully and that you have felt the need to look after yourself. I sort of know that feeling myself, and it's sad. I am concerned that your T doesn't know about the inexperienced Ts you've had in the past. Is there a reason you didn't let her know this? It factors in really big now, and she needs to know what a concern this is for you. I get the part about her not hearing you, and how much that hurts, Jones. I've gone through the not-being-heard scenarios enough that I am all too familiar with them, but you have always challenged me to confront my T about what she's not hearing me about, and I've never regretted the good results I've had in doing so. So I am challenging YOU. You really need to let her know how this is making you feel, because I know it feels awful. Sure you only have two more sessions with her, but if you don't express your true feelings about this and get it all out on the table, you're going to walk away with something unresolved between you, and even though you don't think you have a real attachment to this T, I feel that you do have one, even if it's not super strong, and this is a relationship that will be a loss for you and this is something that needs to be dealt with and worked through, not just left only partly remedied, KWIM? Please, do yourself a huge favor and spill the beans about this to her, in detail. Be completely open and honest about how this has affected you, because it's really important. Will you please do this? I would hate to see you not. I just know that nothing has freed me more than getting all of my feelings and hurt and frustrations with my T out on the table with her to be worked out. I never know what is going on in her brain, what her intentions are, and giving her the chance to explain herself and make things right has proven to ALWAYS be a positive and valuable experience to me and to our relationship. I really think you'll be glad you opened it up with her if you take the risk! Please, Jones. At this point I think you have everything to gain and nothing to lose from opening this up with her.

I'll shut up now. Good luck with this. Hugs, Jones.

MTF

Hey MTF,

Thank you for this feedback - and for the challenge, eeek! About time I got some of my own medicine. And you talk a lot of sense here about the reality of the attachment and the need to get it all out there.

I was going to say we just haven't had time to talk about all this stuff, and while that's mostly true I have also downplayed some stuff a bit. I was worried she would think I was questioning HER experience - guilty feelings, I guess, because I have.

And then when I aired some of my concerns, I was so relieved at her reassurance that I just let go of the others - until they came up again. I think I'm going to try writing a letter and taking it in with me so that I make sure I get it all out. And maybe if we run out of time we can squeeze in an extra appointment if necessary... maybe. :/

Thanks for the encouragement, MTF, it makes me think I really need to take this seriously and prepare for these last sessions.

Hi, Jones! I know you aren't up to writing at present, but I wanted to say hi, since I am in the mood (obviously) to write today. Please don't feel the need to respond to this, I'm just musing- I was thinking about your situation, and just mulling it over...I know your T had mentioned at one point that she wondered if a male T would be right for you...and I'm thinking about what your response to that was... it seems like it was a bit of fear about developing the dreaded attachment. Oh, it is a pain in the rear, truly. But for me it is almost like the therapy would stay in the land of thoughts/changing behaviors rather than feelings and becoming more aware of them. It is a hard question. Is it better to be in control of the therapy (to some extent) in that overwhelming feeling never completely rock the boat and leave you blubbering like a two year old- surely, it's a better way to do the work of therapy without that getting in the way... or, is it better to completely lose control of the whole process and end up being forced to ride it like a wave? Both have their benefits, but the latter puts one into an extremely vulnerable position. Not a fun place for people like you and I to be in. Is it where the real healing can take place? I have NO IDEA. This is just some thoughts. I just wanted to say I was thinking about it in regards to your situation, and wondering, musing- take or leave it, dear Jones.

BB

Hey BB, thanks for thinking of me. I'm feeling a bit too exhausted at the moment to do much writing, but I appreciate these comments- I have mulled over this too. The T question's resolved as of yesterday - I told my T I couldn't do the younger woman and wanted to go with the other - who does some art therapy with other stuff and has 20 yrs experience. I decided the guy wasn't for me. So she will get this woman in to meet me for a few minutes in our last session next week, if possible. I'll probably write more about this at some stage, but can't do it now - apologies.

J

Jones, I totally understand your lack of energy for writing. This is a tough time for you but I just wanted to say that you did a really good and significant thing to go back to your T and ask for what you need. I'm glad she was agreeable. I wish you well in your last session and hope things work out with your new T.

TN

Me too, Jones...of course you are too exhausted to write...no apologies are neccessary! But know we are behind you 100%...I too am glad you asked for what you needed. I hope that tonight you will be able to have a really restful sleep and wake up feeling able to take on the day!
Peace, Jones,

BB

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jones}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

((((((Jones))))))

Wow, what a roller coaster ride you've been on. I hope your session goes well and everything ends up okay.

Wishing you a good ending. I hope you click with your new T.

Thanks so much for your warm wishes, you guys. You are lovely. I'm still feeling flat as a pancake and don't have much verbal energy, but I appreciate this a lot.

It's a difficult time. I got 'challenged' a lot by my T and my husband's T in our couples therapy, and have ended up feeling really misunderstood. Things I thought my T 'got' but which she clearly doesn't. And our discussion about the transfer was not satisfying to me. She threw up a counterargument aka 'another perspective' for every reason I said for wanting a different T. She heard my anger at feeling like she hadn't taken my wishes into account, and was really unapologetic about it. I didn't feel her emotional presence at all.

I'm struggling to find energy for things. I will try to do some writing to clear my head for our last session on Wednesday, but right now just pulling it together to keep life running.

Take care all - no need to respond to this, I've no idea when I'll feel up to writing back.

xxJones

Jones

I wanted to reply to what you wrote, and of course it doesn't matter if you are up to replying or not (am away for a while now anyway). Concentrate on you and just getting by right now.

quote:

It's a difficult time. I got 'challenged' a lot by my T and my husband's T in our couples therapy, and have ended up feeling really misunderstood

ouch, that's hard. I don't mind being challenged at all by my T - find it helpful in fact - but wouldn't in front of m husband. And then to feel misunderstood by your T is one of the hardest, so no wonder you feel flat. It's hard when there is a disconnect with understanding, you try so hard to explain, give all you can and then there's a break in the most important thing. I get knocked by that, but my T is usually very persistent at making me let her understand when this happens, it's me that wants to give up usually.

I think this must be all compounded by the fac that your last session approaches, and this asn't how you wantd to end maybe - sorting out a misunderstanding. It sounds like she is unwilling to back down over her choice of T for you - I don't knw the system where you are, but have you the option to search for one on your own or is that not possible? I am sorry that she was unemotional and cold to you, that's so what you didn't need (((Jones))) - do you think subconsciously SHE is struggling at the break too and distancing herself already? - just a thought.

I am sorry you are struggling, it's so hard to keep the everyday life bits going when you feel like that, everything becmes a huge effort, so be gentle to yourself and look after yourself as best you can. I hope you can get a few answers and a better sense of closure on Wednesday, it will be hard Jones. I will remember to think of you.

starfish

(((( Jones ))))

Fingers crossed and lots of good thoughts for you this Wednesday (well actually every day until and including Wednesday!) I hope your last session with T achieves everything you need and hope for.

LL

I'm sorry that things did not go well with your T and the couples T. That all sounds very upsetting. I hope that your last session can bring you some peace and closure. Thinking of you. ((((Jones))))

I too am hoping and praying that your last session brings a sense of closure and peace for you, Jones. I also thought that maybe your T was subconsciously distancing herself with you as a self-protective mechanism. Of course this is difficult for her too, and though I don't think you need to hear that, I also think you need to hear that.

Jones, I am sorry that you even had to have a couples session with your T before she leaves... to my mind, that time would have been better served using for an individual session, since one session wouldn't do much probably in terms of relationship to spouse, but could have done a lot in terms of allowing closure for you in this. But, there is no use crying over spilt milk...I guess I just say it because maybe that is what needed to happen and that's why the session ended up not helpful rather that than the sense of her not caring...It has been obvious from day one reading your posts that your T cares for you. I hope your next T (and btw, may I say how much I admire your resolve to continue with therapy at this point?) will help you to deal with all of this, and then move into more of your healing journey, dear Jones!

I'll never forget how in one of your posts, you put how you fell in love with everyone in the psyche cafe and built your own log cabin there, and Jones, I just want to say, that we all of us in the "Psyche Cafe Woods" have fallen in love with you, too. Keep us posted.

BB

{{{{{{{{{{Jones}}}}}}}}}}
I am so, so sorry to hear your T is fumbling this. IMO this is not the time for challenging you on anything, the transition is an enormous challenge by itself and you deserve to be handled gently and carefully. Instead she is up and then down, back and then forth, hot and then cold, connected and then clueless, and it has got to be emotionally exhausting for you. Talk about mixed messages when you really don't need them.

I went back through your thread...and this seemed to jump out:

quote:

She said she felt like she and I have very different rhythms - that I am very ruminative and she bounces round like a pinball ...*snip*...She said she had been very mindful of this difference as she and I worked and thought it had caused some dissonance along the way.

Sounds like she's pinballing again...and I'm guessing it's because of this:

quote:

My t got really teary almost as soon as I came in, and told me she was having a rough time with the thought of leaving me, and recreating 'bad mum' experiences for me. She said it was a very uncomfortable experience for her. She said we had had some really close times and she felt a wrench at the thought of leaving me.

I don't know if this helps, but it really sounds like it is her own anxiety over leaving you that is causing these weird swings...you repeated other things she told you about her regrets in leaving you, so it makes sense. And it sounds like she is somewhat aware of her limitations, but not enough to stop herself from flattening you when she is in pinball mode. I'm not saying this to make excuses for her, or because I think you need to take care of her...just trying to help make sense of what you are experiencing. It really does sound like she cares so much for you that it's troubling for her, and not that she doesn't care. But I am so sorry for the pain it is putting you through, Jones. You deserve better closure than this, there is no reason for her to shut down emotionally on you, she is not in any danger, and there is every reason for YOUR protection and mental well-being for her to stay open and connected with you up to the very end. I hope she settles down and pulls it together for your last session so you can at least part on a positive note.

I really love what BB said:

quote:

we all of us in the "Psyche Cafe Woods" have fallen in love with you, too.

I must agree with you on that one, BB. In fact, Jones, it feels a bit like we are gathering outside your cabin over the last few days...can you see us out there? *waves* Sending you love and well-wishes...lean on us when you need to, we are here for you.

Hugs,
SG

Dear SG, BB, STRM, LL, Monte, SF, Agent, Kashley, DF, TN, MTF, SB, AG & LG - wow - I have just looked back over this thread to the beginning and the support and care you guys have given me is just wonderful. You've made this so much more bearable. This is a truly amazing place. Thank you. SG, your image of the gathering outside the cabin is just beautiful and is making me really grin. I figured I better come out and say hi.

It's hard to put words to what's going on. I've been feeling really low but I think for now it's improving. We had a final couples session yesterday, and my last individual session is tomorrow afternoon (it's morning here).

The couples session was good, an improvement. I had gone in expecting to have more of the toughness of last time but it wasn't quite. It's hard to get my bearings on this (and hard to write about without including too much personal detail). On the good side - our Ts are very professional - it's been clear from the outset that they've had a plan for these 10 sessions, and that they work out together what they want to cover before each session. As a 'course of treatment' what's happened has made a lot of sense and seems kinda necessary. We've spent 8 sessions working on the interactions between us in our marriage, which has involved a lot of HARD work for my husband. We've worked on getting clearer, more supportive communication between us, clearer agreements, and separating present stuff from past events. In effect, a lot of this has involved addressing the emotional lacks that have led to me seeking emotional closeness outside the marriage. Finally we got to the stage where things were stable enough that we could actually look directly at that pattern, which is a big pattern for me. So the spotlight has to some degree turned on me, what I've done, my fuzzy boundaries and where I'm at now. It's very uncomfortable - partly because there has been so much SMOKE thrown up by this and other things in our relationship that I've never actually had to seriously sit with this and discuss it. Too much raging drama. Which in turn leads to me withdrawing, and getting my emotional needs met elsewhere. So this is all feels very uncomfortable, very necessary, well overdue, productive, and scary (because I don't know if I CAN ever be the kind of partner my husband needs).

Needless to say, the couples work is not done. In a sense it's just begun. But we are in a place where we feel like we've achieved some stuff, we're feeling so much warmer and closer and more open. The next couple of months are going to be very disruptive for us with trips, separations, visitors, new jobs etc. So this is a good moment to stop and collect for a while. We will have a follow-up with my husband's t and maybe my new t in late July, then look at more in September.
(A lot of this could have gone in the Spouses thread, I know - but it's sort of integral to this story too, so here it is... I'm watching that one with great interest though.)

Anyway, yesterday's session seemed gentler - I didn't feel quite so misunderstood, and that makes me feel easier about my T. But I don't know, I know we (the Ts and I) are coming from quite different values systems about this stuff and that makes it very hard for me to know what is about values assumptions and what is about therapeutic principles. So, although I feel like I can and want to be monogamous and faithful, I have NEVER wanted to be in a marriage where emotional contact with other people is verboten - or where it dies a natural death while everyone zones out in front of the TV. It's not the way I want to live my life. AND I have fuzzy boundary issues. Gee, I'm quite a catch, huh?

ANYWAY, you can sort of see how my T has found it necessary to call me out on this stuff at a very basic level, right? And then at another level, she did so in ways that really felt upsetting to me - eg 'to us emotional infidelity is the same as any other' - which doesn't reflect my attempts to be honest, my attempts to communicate, to put my marriage first, the boundaries I HAVE set, etc. I got to say a lot of this yesterday and I feel a bit more understood, like we are getting closer to the core of the problem, not the IMAGE of the problem, if that makes sense.

Uh, where am I.... oh yeah, so my T leaving.... I'm hoping from all this you can see how much roller coaster is involved in this. Last week I was all "WTF? I thought you understood this! You b*@#$%! You've been pretending to understand me this whole time! And now I'm supposed to feel heartbroken about you going! And I'm angry, and you just think I'm angry because you're leaving, but I'm not, because I never really trusted you that much anyway and GUESS WHAT I WAS RIGHT!" And similar feelings about the transfer stuff - I thought she understood how scary the transfer was for me, how important the experience question was, and then she didn't. Or she sort of did but thought it would be good to challenge me anyway.

I've sort of calmed down a bit now. SF, you note above that you like being challenged by your T, and it has been a really important part of our relationship too. My T knows I am for the most part pretty resilient, and so I guess she feels ok doing this. But it HASN'T felt good in this ending, and I've been really struggling to get my bearings. On the one hand I just want my other T back - the one who is tuned in to me, who takes great care with me - and on the other hand I'm just already in full withdrawal mode - where I can say, well, that's been a constructive relationship, I've learnt some stuff, and that's that. See ya. My biggest problem from this frame of mind is that I feel like I should make her a card or something for tomorrow and I've no idea what to say.

It's hard for me to think that she is affected by me, and that that has affected her presence, and that the inconsistencies I've felt have been lodged in her and not in me. Or in both of us, more likely. But logically - it sort of makes sense - you guys are seeing that in what I'm saying and I kind of can too. Last week there were times I felt like I was getting NOTHING from her, and I noticed she had her arm across her body. I've never seen her sit like that before, and though her voice was calm and she specifically told me (when I asked her) that she didn't feel hurt to me it looked defensive.

I don't know, I can't do much with that awareness even if it's true. I just have to sort of steady myself and try to find an okay way to say goodbye.

Thanks for listening all of you. Huge hugs. Your support is just really, really valuable to me.

xxxJones

J,

Wishing you lots of luck tomorrow. A card sounds like a nice way to say goodbye. I know this will be hard. I'm thinking of you and wish I had some great words of wisdom or comfort or just something great to say, but I do wish you well and hope that you can have a positive final session with your T tomorrow. (((((J)))))

MTF

Hi Jones,

I just wanted to respond to one specific part of your post, regarding the card. I thought for a long time about whether to give my therapist a card or not when we finished. I did want to, because I got a lot out of our relationship, but in the end I didn't. I felt like it would be more useful for me to actually tell him the things I wanted to say - to thank him, tell him that he'd helped me, and wish him well. While giving him a card might have been nice, it also didn't feel necessary; I had the chance to tell him everything I needed him to know before we finished. It sounds like your relationship with your T has been quite different from mine, so your perspective might be entirely different. But if it's worrying you that you're not sure what to put on a card, then you don't have to do it.

I also wanted to say that I'm glad that your work on your marriage has been productive. There may be more work to be done, but then, there always is, isn't there?

All the best for tomorrow. I hope you feel good about how it goes.

Thank you MTF, thank you Agent.

Agent, when I read your message I felt a sense of relief - I had been feeling like I HAD to do it! But then once I realised I didn't have to, it would be ok regardless, I decided I wanted to as a way to spend some creative time with my own feelings about this. So I made one, stitched some paper and some special fabric together, hand-made an envelope and then settled down to write something. And I found I didn't need to say much - just that her sense of vocation was really special, and our work had affected me in ways I hadn't imagined, and that I knew that I would still be growing from what we had done well into the future.

I've been so sad and slow over the last while, like everything in me was living into that goodbye. It didn't help that I knew that straight after the session I was taking my husband to the airport for 10 days away.

But amazingly, the last session was really connected, really steady and open and close. We were both there and present with each other, and as I told her the things I needed to say, the things that had been coming up, the conflict just melted away. It was lovely. She cried a little bit when I gave her my card, and when she told me that she was going to miss working with me, I actually believed her that she meant me, instead of thinking she was talking about 'clients in general'. And she said we had a connection that has been quite profound at times, and I know that's true.

It's amazing how much more peaceful I feel now. For now, at least, I feel like everything that needed to be said was said, and I can rest.

BUT WAIT - there's more - because at the beginning of the session I met my new T for a couple of minutes, the experienced art therapist with attachment background. She looks lovely, a beautiful open face. She shook my hand and held it really warmly. It felt just right and I am really looking forward to working with her.

Okay, now I need to sleep for a week....

Jones, that sounds beautiful. I'm so glad that your last session has made you feel both peaceful about the work you've done with your old T and hopeful about the work to come with your new T. Rest well.

Oh ((((Jones))))

So glad your last session went so well. The card you made your T sounds lovely. I'm a cardmaker myself, so I could sort of picture it, and it sounds like you put a lot of work into it. I'm sure your T appreciated your efforts. You 'sound' at peace with how everything went, and that makes my heart happy for you! I'm sure it's all a relief for you, although still difficult. I'm also glad that the new T seems to be someone you feel good about, and I hope it goes well with her. Yes, rest well J!! You need some good rest after all you've been through. Take good care of yourself!!

MTF

Jones, I am so glad to hear that your last session with your T was peaceful and connected. I was hoping so much that would happen. And I am delighted to hear that you seemed to have an immediate warm connection to your new T! I am doing the happy dance, right now! It looks a little bit like the chicken dance, only less...dignified.

Love, peace,

BB

Jones, wow...I am so happy for you to have that kind of incredible connection in your last session. I feel so relieved for you, and I don't know if it's just my twisted sense of..whatever, but I think I would feel so much better about my overall relationship with a T if I had to go through an attachment/attuning crisis like you did toward the end and then have it resolved so beautifully. To me, it would just reinforce the special nature of the relationship, and it would leave little doubt that something significant had occurred, both in these last few weeks and throughout the whole time you've been seeing her.

I'm also so happy that you got such a good feeling from this other T. Have you ever done any sort of expressive therapy, like art therapy? I like being creative, but I'm not very good at art, so the idea of it kind of fascinates me in an odd way. I mean, I know that anyone can do it (though I'm sure some artistic ability (which you seem to have - ie. that awesome card you made) would help make it even more therapeutic), so that's what makes it even more interesting to me. Not that I'm thinking of leaving this T any time soon, but I'm just curious.

Jones,

I am so pleased that your last session went so well and that you left with a sense of peace. It sounds like it was what you needed from that last meeting.

I look forward to hearing more about the new T. I'm happy that you felt like she would be a good fit.

Jones!!! This is too awesome for words...I wish I knew electric guitar so I could let fly with a really cool riff right now.

Sweet dreams, sleepy Jones...

SG

Hi Jones,
At this point, a week probably feels like a short nap.

I'm so glad that you were able to end well with your therapist, with both of you able to appreciate the good things in the relationship. I certainly understand her sadness at leaving you. You're the kind of patient any T would kill for! You're introspective, intelligent, eloquent, exceedingly willing to self-examine and fair-minded to boot. You have exhibited an enormous grace and strength through this, taking the steps you needed to take care of yourself, without walking over anyone to do that. I know this has probably been an exhausting experience but I think you should be very proud of how you've gotten through it.

And I was thrilled to hear about your encounter with the new T, she sounds like a keeper. I really appreciate the thought and effort you've put into what you needed in a therapist and I think your efforts have been rewarded. I look forward to hearing about your experiences with her.

AG

Oh yes Jones! That is so good that you could experience during that last session a sense of being connected again - I’m so glad you could bring up the things that had been bothering you and feel the conflict melting away. It’s also great that she gave you that sense of YOU personally mattering to her I so hope that goes a long way to countering your doubts about trusting her in the first place.

I’m so please that you now have some peace and can look forward to the next stage in your growth with your new T - hope you start with her soon.

This is a really nice post to read and I have to say you absolutely deserve this happy ending. SO pleased for you (((( Jones ))))

LL

Thanks so much everyone for your beautiful words. BB, I NEEEEED to see video footage of the BB dance...to SG's electric guitar riff! it is for therapeutic purposes. Yeah, party in the woods.... As for you, AG, you're making me blush - thank you for saying those lovely things.

I am having moments of missing T, feeling sad about the things we can't finish together. But mostly it feels complete somehow. Thank you all for making this the right place to to work on processing this.

Kashley and Monte, I reckon we need an Art Therapy thread, doncha say?