Sadly, I'm sorry you have lost some time with him, but I'm glad he was responsive to your concerns. I am, like I said, one who actually gets those benefits (both extra time and touch and more of each than most people get) as well, but I still stand by my feelings that kids (internal or external) will feel safer when they know what to expect and a caretaker is predictable, consistent. I experience, personally, in my own therapy, that T being responsible for the time and being consistent with what he says takes a HUGE amount of pressure off of us feeling either that we need to manage it for him or else a sense that we can control/manipulate to make him give things he doesn't want to. The latter, even if the kids are getting what they want in having more time or hugs or whatever it is, will feel scary and upsetting, because there is this projected worry that it is unwillingly forced upon him. I don't know if you have that same worry, but I get stuck in all sorts of double-binds regarding the inside kids needs and their sense that they are supposed to hide those needs or at least protect T from being bombarded by them. So, while the lost time may hurt, I think if you have the same sort of conflicts that I have had over these things, there might actually be more of a sense of safety, of being able to let go and relax and trust that he can and will manage things and you can really let the kids be themselves and push and pull and test like kids do and he will take good care of both himself and you in the midst of that. That sort of confidence is, truly, a gift.

So, while I understand what Babs is saying, I can't necessarily say that it has or has not come into play with anyone here. I think someone can still see the value in boundaries without any sort of jealousy coming into play. Like I said, in my case and at least a few other posters in this thread, I know there are Ts who have offered comparable extra time and comforting physical touch. I speak from personal experience how important it is to talk through the boundary crossings being therapeutically engaged, to communicate about them extensively and frequently when they stir up confusing or painful reactions.

So, while it does come with loss sometimes, it is also a very important part of the process and one that makes me feel very safe. Because of conversations like the one you just had, I have become able to feel safe with and trust my T more and more WHILE receiving the wonderful gifts of time and care that he offers. I don't have to project how he is feeling about "being forced to" give them. I don't have to worry quite as much that it is my job to protect him from the kids. And the only reason I can relax in those anxieties is because we took the time to have some really hard, scary conversations where he showed me he was going to be the one to worry about and take care of such things.

Just my two cents.

And, for what it's worth, I can commiserate. I just put T in his place about some generous billing practices and as a result, we will be going forward more consistently with how he is charging my insurance, at cost to me in the long run, but it makes me feel safe, because I know he is receiving compensation for our work.

He was freely offering me two hours to two hours fifteen and I pointed out that maybe he shouldn't and so now we are at one and a half hours.
And this is good?
My sessions with all therapists have been two hours long when it gets this rough.

I have no say. It is NHS. I cannot ask for two sessions a week (though he admits he thinks that would be better for me, which was why he was giving me two hour sessions.)| because in our area that is not allowed for cost and budget reasons.

I have shot myself in the foot. People here convinced me that him giving me two hours was wrong, flagging it as a boundary breaking, and he listened to all that and said well we can go back to one and half hours.

Hi Babs

Really good to meet you and have you join us. I am though really sorry that you feel that there is some anger and jealousy from people here that affects how some may react to others. I have to say I have never felt that, but in a forum where people ask for advice there will always be negatives and positives. If I post a problem, I do so knowing that I may not like what I hear back; in my case I am very careful about what and how much I post about my very personal stuff because I know that things can be easily misunderstood or that I could get upset by well-intentioned suggestions or opinions that differ from my own - especially when it refers to my T! In fact I have always been overwhelmed reading the support and encouragement from people to others in their therapy journeys, often from people who are going through very tough times themselves.

But Sadly did pose her original question as one of having concern that her sessions were running over, I have re read it but it has been edited so can't exactly remember the original post. I replied because my T does run over and therefore I too have experience of this. But I never inferred, nor I think did anybody here, that the sessions should be shorter or that 2 hours was wrong. I cannot see that written anywhere. I have 2 hour sessions and they are good for me and I know a lot of others do too. What I did share was that I would always pay for the extra time because for me that keeps a firm boundary and ensures no favours or special treatment.

I am sorry Sadly if you feel like you have shot yourself in the foot, but nothing is there to stop you going back and telling him this and asking for a reconsider. I am sure the two of you can talk about it and agree what's best for you. You know each other best.

starfish

why are apologies being posted - Sadly (current name) made her decision and there was a consequence?

I'm not sure I can say welcome to you Babs - you have weighed into a situation and it 'seems' made 'judgements' of many forum members - I really cannot see any 'jealousy' being manifested by us! So, Babs I would like to ask "who are you" and what gives you the right to come in with guns blazing?

There are no members of this forum who have 'judged' Sadly, are jealous of Sadly, but many who have clearly known her longer and have expressed CONCERN!!

Yet again, another S situation!!!
My post may not be helpful but jeez I don't want to see everyone feeling guilty for expressing concern in voicing it!!

okay I'll have the last word Sadly and Babs!! please do not have a go at forum members and then piss off - 98% of the forum family members here are totally top people who give so much of themselves - on the open forum and behind the scenes when appropriate and necessary!!! BUT ALWAYS ready to help!!! Good night and God bless!

Morgs, I'm an avid Pies supporter and I can't wait for next Friday at the G when we whip the Hawks arses.

I think people here are gorgeous and there are a number of stories I have followed keenly for over 18 months now. Some have vanished and that is sad, but the way it goes.

I don't know that anyone has a 'right' to anything on an open forum, but one might aim to treat others with respect and speak with honesty and hope for the same. As a fellow Aussie I hope you might appreciate my bluntness. I called it as I saw it, maybe too bluntly, sorry for my newbie-ness. No guns drawn...maybe just a bit knee-jerky.

As for why now, well like I said, I've wanted to join for ages and I guess today was the day. I read Sadly's posts and got genuinely pissed that she has lost some of her time with her due to being mislead and confused by the over-concerns of others. It's happened before here. It's not intentional, but people are hurting and just get the wrong end of the stick sometimes and go with their gut and sometimes your gut is just wrong.

I have no relationship here with anyone and so maybe I can be a little more objective. To say there is no jealousy present is to be ignorant of human nature. Hell, I feel jealous frequently when I read of some interactions between people and their Ts here.

For me, I have been in therapy twice. Once for 6 years with a cold bastard that fed me up with knowledge, but little else. Currently with another T for 4 years. After our first meeting he shook my hand and held it in both of his and thanked me for sharing and said he hoped I felt welcome to share some more. He acknowledges the need for boundaries but says they sometimes simply get in the way, so we have in our boundaries a 'gate' we use sometimes. Nothing alarming, nothing unethical, just human stuff. I'm happily partnered at present, but have been guilty of improper T-thoughts at times, but never mind. I'm sure he doesn't feel the same way and has never indicated any desire other than to help me heal, which he is doing. He's just a loving kind of bloke with a lot of wisdom and capacity for care.

So, not looking to rock boats, but maybe I have. Probably won't stay as I will probably tread on too many toes, but I will keep reading as there are some stories here that really touch me. Take care guys.

Babs

OMG!!! a pies supporter - that's it you clearly have problems!!! JOKING!! please stay around coz none of us are scared or frightened off by plain speakers - as long it takes everyone's feelings into consideration and you were a little guns blazing for someone we've never even met and batting for someone who has been - hmmm - problematical!!! hang around, meet more of us and introduce yourself! go swans!!!!!!!

I think this thread is reminding me of those videos about trauma and transference that I posted a while back. The T in those videos is talking about how transference in therapy of trauma survivors can be very "trancy." What he means by that I think is that the transference can be very strong and very distorting of reality for both the client and therapist. It's as though both people are getting sucked towards repeating certain roles and aspects of the trauma without really being aware of what is going on. So the therapist needs to be REALLY solid and clear in order to be able to fight against that current. I honestly think it does happen that otherwise good therapists get sucked into this. I can think of examples from people on this forum where T's who are otherwise brilliant have gotten thrown by some counter-transference and had to go back and repair it in the next session or whatever. And I think that's where boundaries are important, in that they can sort of be guard rails to let you know when things are getting off-kilter before they actually run right off a cliff. I don't want anyone to think this is a judgment on Sadly's T directly though. I don't think I can make a call on that one way or the other.

There's something else I was pondering about Sadly's story of being naked in therapy and I think I'll explain it here. It's not meant as an argument for or against anything else said on this thread, but just a meditation I was having about it.

I've sometimes mentioned Dr. Williard Harley and marriagebuilders.com on this site as something that has helped me a lot with my marriage and with other aspects of understanding relationships and life in general. Dr. Harley often says that trust is a paycheck, not the lottery, and that in marriage you really should have limits on how much you trust your partner, because we are all human and can have failings. At first that seemed unromantic and overly pessimistic but I've come to see the wisdom in it over time. The way he applies that is to say that no matter how much you feel you trust your spouse, that if you want to protect your marriage from infidelity, you should still have wise precautions in place (i.e. good boundaries) to prevent an affair from happening. For example, you should be transparent with each other about what you are doing with your time and who you are communicating with, and you should avoid careers where you travel a lot on your own without your spouse. And he does not exempt himself from these same rules! What he says is something like, "You might think that if Joyce (his wife) really trusted me, then we wouldn't need to take these precautions. But actually I am trustworthy BECAUSE I take these kind of measures to protect our marriage." So he acknowledges that he is human and can be tempted and therefore can only really be trustworthy to the extent that he avoids the situation of being tempted.

I think it's the same thing in therapy. The smartest T's know that they are vulnerable to burnout and countertransference and know how to have the right boundaries to protect themselves from those things. And the proof of being trustworthy is how well they know themselves and keep those boundaries, rather than how trustworthy they can be in spite of having few or loose boundaries. And notice I am saying this in spite of having a T with very broad boundaries (allows touch, going outside, email and phone contact, etc.), so it's definitely not a jealousy thing going on there.

Let's just imagine here for the sake of argument that being naked in therapy was not considered unacceptable and unethical in itself. You might argue that being naked could actually have great therapeutic benefit, because of the trust that it would be restoring that was broken...being able to trust an authority figure not to take advantage of you even though you're naked and vulnerable. But there are several problems with that idea. First of all, considering the strong and "trancy" nature of traumatic transference, not to mention simple human nature, there's hardly a T in their right mind that should trust THEMSELVES to be in that situation with a client with an abuse history. Second, as a child you should be able to trust an authority figure in that way, but as an adult, no authority figure should get that much trust from you, unless being naked were somehow medically necessary. Otherwise it's really an inappropriate level of trust to give. So while of course it's understandable to want to experience that in therapy to make up for the past, it's one of those things that isn't feasible or practical. The best you can do is get angry about what happened in the past and process the anger in therapy.

In conclusion, I know that building trust can be really important in therapy, but I think it has to be the right kind of trust. And there is such a thing as a client who comes into therapy with too much trust of the wrong kind, and who needs to be taught how to allocate trust in a more cautious manner. Kind of like a martial arts instructor helping you defend yourself better by letting you know that when you stand a certain way you're making yourself vulnerable to a certain kind of attack. And in my experience, when we know how to protect ourselves well, and how to spot good boundaries in others...we can actually be more open and vulnerable as a result.

I texted him this morning saying that I felt I had shot myself in the foot and explaining about the times of the majority of my sessions being 2hrs or over and then a few being a little less, and asked him please not to reduce to me to one and half hours. He said

quote:

"Thanks for your message, the length of your sessions remains flexible, best wishes P"

Well, I'm glad we got this resolved!

Glad to hear it Sadly, now you can enjoy those longer sessions while also knowing you're safe with sweetP. It's good to face those fears head-on; I think it's good you expressed your worries about his boundaries.

quote:

Glad to hear it Sadly, now you can enjoy those longer sessions while also knowing you're safe with sweetP. It's good to face those fears head-on; I think it's good you expressed your worries about his boundaries.

I know expressing this stuff has made me feel SO much safer about receiving from T...though, it is still an issue that I have to talk about with him pretty frequently (i.e. did Friday, will again tonight).