This really just came up at a session in the middle of both our vacation times......so there was no way to follow up on all that came up. Perhaps he shouldn't have scheduled anything on that day. I would have been better off just dealing with two weeks off without an injection of confusing messages and noticing that he was distracted and self-absorbed. So, we will resume again in a few days. And I have had a lot to think about. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh you can be assured I will be assertive.
But it's like so many have said. They push boundaries and feel special when they get extra time or that hug or whatever. I'm a big boundary pusher. But I think I will be the one more insistent on boundaries from now on. Who would have guessed!
quote:Originally posted by True North:
It took a bit of dragging it out of me but I finally told him everything of how I was feeling and what happened yesterday when he told me over the phone about his plans to leave. I told him how I was angry at myself for allowing his vacation to matter to me, for allowing him to get so close to me... that I don't want anyone so close. That I was feeling rejected and abandoned and afraid he was not coming back. And mostly that I hated HATED telling him all of this.
TN,
Just had to say that this is me to a tee, especially the part about hating talking about it. He has to DRAG it out of me.
Last week the couple before me went about 5 minutes long. When I got in he immediately said, "I'm sorry for keeping you waiting."
I said, "that's ok."
He smiled and said, "is it?"
Of course what he meant was that I was probably pissed off about it but I of course, 1) didn't allow myself to feel pissed and, 2) didn't speak up about it.
In my case, this not allowing myself to feel is an unconscious, involuntary mechanism. I have to really keep an eye out for the signs of it and force myself to notice it and then feel it. But man, it's hard.
Russ
Hi Russ...Ts must have a thing about asking how you feel when they run late. My T always asks me this and most times it does not bother me as he sometimes runs late with me. It only bothers me if a gorgeous woman is in with him 
But, seriously, I think what you are so used to doing is suppressing your feelings and numbing yourself against any pain. It's a defense we use when we are children for protection but it gets so entrenched that we now go there automatically, without any thought to it. It became our way of life. I do this both intentionally and unintentionally now. I am currently quite numb and shut down... so much so that I don't want to see my T tomorrow after waiting for 12 days of agony. I got so angry at him and felt so awful and abandoned and those feelings made me feel too vulnerable and so I shut myself down to feeling anything. If I don't do this the other avenue I take is the self-hate, crawling into the black hole route. That will lead to thoughts of SI, so I try to avoid it.
So now I have no idea what to do about tomorrow. I don't want to talk to my T. I have really nothing to say to him and it seems so long since we last discussed anything I can't even remember where we were in therapy. In addition I half-expect to get an email or voice mail from him telling me he didnt make it home yet and canceling our session. I won't even allow myself to believe he's coming back until I see him standing in front of me.
I suppose I can sit there and scowl at him or just wait for him to do the talking and nod my head. I don't even want to tell him I'm angry w/him because that would just be admitting that it hurt so much that he left me. Aside from that I'd like to throw something at him and that won't go over too well...
Thanks for letting me rant... once again.
TN
But, seriously, I think what you are so used to doing is suppressing your feelings and numbing yourself against any pain. It's a defense we use when we are children for protection but it gets so entrenched that we now go there automatically, without any thought to it. It became our way of life. I do this both intentionally and unintentionally now. I am currently quite numb and shut down... so much so that I don't want to see my T tomorrow after waiting for 12 days of agony. I got so angry at him and felt so awful and abandoned and those feelings made me feel too vulnerable and so I shut myself down to feeling anything. If I don't do this the other avenue I take is the self-hate, crawling into the black hole route. That will lead to thoughts of SI, so I try to avoid it.
So now I have no idea what to do about tomorrow. I don't want to talk to my T. I have really nothing to say to him and it seems so long since we last discussed anything I can't even remember where we were in therapy. In addition I half-expect to get an email or voice mail from him telling me he didnt make it home yet and canceling our session. I won't even allow myself to believe he's coming back until I see him standing in front of me.
I suppose I can sit there and scowl at him or just wait for him to do the talking and nod my head. I don't even want to tell him I'm angry w/him because that would just be admitting that it hurt so much that he left me. Aside from that I'd like to throw something at him and that won't go over too well...
Thanks for letting me rant... once again.
TN
TN and Russ.....
Oh dear, after just declaring I would be assertive, now I feel like a wuss. My T keeps me waiting all the time, and it makes me crazy. After a several 15-20 minute waits, I finally asked "should I assume I can show up 15-after?"......and he gave me a little song and dance about his schedule and stuff.....so I keep showing up on time. Twice he has come and said he would be tied up a little longer, and I have said I am fine (although I am not). Maybe twice he has seen me on time. Sometimes he apologizes, sometimes not. I actually calculated how many hours of waiting room time I have logged. Sometimes it ticks me off, other times not so much. But it can raise my anxiety level before I even get started. I don't have trouble feeling it, but I have trouble complaining. He never gyps me on time even if we start late. But then I think about whoever he is keeping waiting after me.
On the other hand, he has let me go over by as much as 20-50 minutes on a few occasions. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. But I can't count on that and it is difficult because I can't gauge when we're going to stop. So I start to worry about that instead of what we're talking about. And you don't want to get into something you can't wrap up. OK so now I say I will be assertive again in requesting boundaries around the time.
Oh dear, after just declaring I would be assertive, now I feel like a wuss. My T keeps me waiting all the time, and it makes me crazy. After a several 15-20 minute waits, I finally asked "should I assume I can show up 15-after?"......and he gave me a little song and dance about his schedule and stuff.....so I keep showing up on time. Twice he has come and said he would be tied up a little longer, and I have said I am fine (although I am not). Maybe twice he has seen me on time. Sometimes he apologizes, sometimes not. I actually calculated how many hours of waiting room time I have logged. Sometimes it ticks me off, other times not so much. But it can raise my anxiety level before I even get started. I don't have trouble feeling it, but I have trouble complaining. He never gyps me on time even if we start late. But then I think about whoever he is keeping waiting after me.
On the other hand, he has let me go over by as much as 20-50 minutes on a few occasions. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. But I can't count on that and it is difficult because I can't gauge when we're going to stop. So I start to worry about that instead of what we're talking about. And you don't want to get into something you can't wrap up. OK so now I say I will be assertive again in requesting boundaries around the time.
TN,
When you say self-hate, do you mean hatred of yourself for having the actual feelings? Like a part of you is saying that having these feelings makes you weak, childish or whatever?
If so, I have a similar reaction. I don't really hate myself for it, but I think the vulnerability itself is threatening enough that I do the anxiety/head fog/fear thing instead of actually having the feelings.
I also get to that place where I don't wanna see my T after a break. Sometimes after a break I just go in and kind of just free associate whatever I feel or whatever thoughts are in my head at the moment, instead of trying to rehearse and review everything that went on during the break.
Hope that makes some sense.
Russ
When you say self-hate, do you mean hatred of yourself for having the actual feelings? Like a part of you is saying that having these feelings makes you weak, childish or whatever?
If so, I have a similar reaction. I don't really hate myself for it, but I think the vulnerability itself is threatening enough that I do the anxiety/head fog/fear thing instead of actually having the feelings.
I also get to that place where I don't wanna see my T after a break. Sometimes after a break I just go in and kind of just free associate whatever I feel or whatever thoughts are in my head at the moment, instead of trying to rehearse and review everything that went on during the break.
Hope that makes some sense.
Russ
FS,
A while ago my T kept me waiting a few times in a row. I told him that while I understand that sometimes our sessions will start a little late, I expect to get that time back on the other side of the session. I also told him that, in wanting this, I want to keep "the frame" in tact so that there's a level of predictability that I can depend on.
He was thrilled when I said this and said, "sounds great to me."
If you're not OK with it, you might wanna say something. It could turn into a productive moment.
Russ
A while ago my T kept me waiting a few times in a row. I told him that while I understand that sometimes our sessions will start a little late, I expect to get that time back on the other side of the session. I also told him that, in wanting this, I want to keep "the frame" in tact so that there's a level of predictability that I can depend on.
He was thrilled when I said this and said, "sounds great to me."
If you're not OK with it, you might wanna say something. It could turn into a productive moment.
Russ
quote:Originally posted by True North:
It only bothers me if a gorgeous woman is in with him
TN
LOL, I have that issue -- and it is a perfume thing, too. I swear.....sometimes the lingering odor makes it hard to breathe. And I'm wondering if these women get gussied up on purpose - I asked him once if he thought they did it for him, and it really caught him off guard, and he looked at me like I had rocks in my head. It's was a reasonable question (wasn't it?).....LOL. He didn't answer, but I will try again sometime!
quote:Originally posted by Russ:
I want to keep "the frame" in tact so that there's a level of predictability that I can depend on.
Russ
Russ, I love that. You hit the nail on the head with the predictability/dependability of expectations.
-hope
Russ...the self-hate could be because I don't want to have those feelings....the needing him, the stupidity of allowing him to get close to me, the knowing that he will hurt me in some way, the anger of actually needing him in my life. OR... it can go the other way in that I turn it against me. That it's my fault he left, he hates me, he is happy to get away from me for awhile, I drive him crazy, he wishes I would disappear because I'm a failure, toxic, annoying, ugly, defective, damaged and he could not possibly want to spend time with me. Sometimes in my head I think that he really does not go on vacation he just tells me that so he can get a break from me. Now my rational side knows this is crazy but it does cross my mind.
As for the waiting... I'm usually his first patient on Monday so I rarely wait then. And if he has someone in there it's usually less than 10 minutes and he always gives it back to me on the other end. He has also run over with me by as much as 20 minutes...not often but it does happen. Usually he has no one immediately after me so I don't bump into someone else.
Hope, it 's good to speak up and voice your concerns. Some people are just not good with time and my T does struggle with it but he tries. I think where it would get upsetting is when you don't know where to introduce a topic because you have no idea when time will be up. My T will tell me (when we run over)...our time is up but I can give us a few more minutes to address anything before we wrap it up. At least I have a warning and can judge how much I want to say or to leave it for next time.
TN
As for the waiting... I'm usually his first patient on Monday so I rarely wait then. And if he has someone in there it's usually less than 10 minutes and he always gives it back to me on the other end. He has also run over with me by as much as 20 minutes...not often but it does happen. Usually he has no one immediately after me so I don't bump into someone else.
Hope, it 's good to speak up and voice your concerns. Some people are just not good with time and my T does struggle with it but he tries. I think where it would get upsetting is when you don't know where to introduce a topic because you have no idea when time will be up. My T will tell me (when we run over)...our time is up but I can give us a few more minutes to address anything before we wrap it up. At least I have a warning and can judge how much I want to say or to leave it for next time.
TN
Hi TN could you go back and read the email and comfort yourself again?
Also if you are unsure how to start, could you ask him to start? I have done that before and it has been effective.
Also if you are unsure how to start, could you ask him to start? I have done that before and it has been effective.
TN,
Thanks for explaining. I hope your next session goes (or went?) well. I know the re-entry from a break can be tough. It can feel pretty awful and alien, like the tenuous connection you had before the break is totally gone now and this person is some stranger.
Or, you can feel really really awful and not know why, when the truth may just be that you are really, really, really furious that your T "abandoned" you. But, because having these feelings is "wrong" and not "appropriate" for an adult to express, they get repressed and then they come out some other way.
As for your feelings that you are "a failure, toxic, annoying, ugly, defective, damaged and he could not possibly want to spend time with me," my T might suggest that you are "pre-loaded" to feel that way from childhood. This might seem totally obvious intellectually, but for me at least, internalising and feeling this is really hard.
Anyway, I hope you're doing OK.
Russ
Thanks for explaining. I hope your next session goes (or went?) well. I know the re-entry from a break can be tough. It can feel pretty awful and alien, like the tenuous connection you had before the break is totally gone now and this person is some stranger.
Or, you can feel really really awful and not know why, when the truth may just be that you are really, really, really furious that your T "abandoned" you. But, because having these feelings is "wrong" and not "appropriate" for an adult to express, they get repressed and then they come out some other way.
As for your feelings that you are "a failure, toxic, annoying, ugly, defective, damaged and he could not possibly want to spend time with me," my T might suggest that you are "pre-loaded" to feel that way from childhood. This might seem totally obvious intellectually, but for me at least, internalising and feeling this is really hard.
Anyway, I hope you're doing OK.
Russ
quote:Originally posted by Freudian Slip:
Russ, I love that. You hit the nail on the head with the predictability/dependability of expectations.
-hope
Thanks, Hope. Yeah, I think the frame is pretty important, at least for me.
Hi all... I'm sorry for not getting back here to give an update on seeing my T on Monday but I have been emotionally exhausted.
I saw him Monday and it did not go so well. I was still angry that he left me but I was unable to tell him this and so I mostly glared at him with hostility ... until he made me laugh a few times. He has this amazing power to make me smile even when I'm mad at him. But I would not really talk to him aside from telling him that he was unsupportive of me while he was gone and his responses to my emails made me feel like he was trying to "fix" me instead of understand and reassure me which is what I needed. He seemed quite suprised I was so upset as he had no idea and was really at a loss of what to say to me. Half the time I would not look at him and the other half we just stared at each other in silence. I know he was trying to figure out what was going on and I was either too hurt or angry to tell him. Needless to say we did not get much accomplished. We did talk about why I could not hold onto the connection while he was gone and how we could change this going forward. Then he strongly suggested I should come back in a day or so to finish this as our time was up and he didn't feel it could wait until next week. He was right because I would have been in a really bad place and so I later called him and agreed to meet the next day (Tuesday).
Monday night I had some time to process my thoughts and feelings, remembering how sincere he looked when he apologized to me for upsetting me and not recognizing I was in pain. So I decided to just be open and honest the next day and tell him how angry I was and how scared and abandoned I felt.
We had a much more productive session the next day and I told him just how I felt and he said he understood and what he saw the day before was a hurt angry little girl and he did not take it personally and he knew where it was coming from. He was very open to collaboration on discussing what happened, where we stood now, and where we need to go in the future. He was very interested in my input which was so healing to me. As a child I was never allowed to say anything I just had to blindly obey. The fact that he was so willing to listen and considering my ideas was so touching to me on a deep level.
I think what happened while he was gone was that I was stuck in emotional flashbacks... feeling abandoned and angry and then feeling stupid and irrational for feeling this way which then made me feel ashamed, which led to me isolating myself and feeling unable to make use of any support system or coping skill(save this Board) to alleviate the pain I was in because... well I didn't deserve it. These feelings just spiral around and then out of control. I guess we need to work on my coping skills.
And so we ended on a fairly good note. I was still scared that I had "ruined" our relationship and I still have a lot more to say but that can wait until Monday. I feel okay and vastly relieved that he is back...
Thank you all for helping me get through these difficult two weeks. It really made a difference to be able to come here and vent and hear what everyone else had to say and not feel so alone. Thanks!
TN
I saw him Monday and it did not go so well. I was still angry that he left me but I was unable to tell him this and so I mostly glared at him with hostility ... until he made me laugh a few times. He has this amazing power to make me smile even when I'm mad at him. But I would not really talk to him aside from telling him that he was unsupportive of me while he was gone and his responses to my emails made me feel like he was trying to "fix" me instead of understand and reassure me which is what I needed. He seemed quite suprised I was so upset as he had no idea and was really at a loss of what to say to me. Half the time I would not look at him and the other half we just stared at each other in silence. I know he was trying to figure out what was going on and I was either too hurt or angry to tell him. Needless to say we did not get much accomplished. We did talk about why I could not hold onto the connection while he was gone and how we could change this going forward. Then he strongly suggested I should come back in a day or so to finish this as our time was up and he didn't feel it could wait until next week. He was right because I would have been in a really bad place and so I later called him and agreed to meet the next day (Tuesday).
Monday night I had some time to process my thoughts and feelings, remembering how sincere he looked when he apologized to me for upsetting me and not recognizing I was in pain. So I decided to just be open and honest the next day and tell him how angry I was and how scared and abandoned I felt.
We had a much more productive session the next day and I told him just how I felt and he said he understood and what he saw the day before was a hurt angry little girl and he did not take it personally and he knew where it was coming from. He was very open to collaboration on discussing what happened, where we stood now, and where we need to go in the future. He was very interested in my input which was so healing to me. As a child I was never allowed to say anything I just had to blindly obey. The fact that he was so willing to listen and considering my ideas was so touching to me on a deep level.
I think what happened while he was gone was that I was stuck in emotional flashbacks... feeling abandoned and angry and then feeling stupid and irrational for feeling this way which then made me feel ashamed, which led to me isolating myself and feeling unable to make use of any support system or coping skill(save this Board) to alleviate the pain I was in because... well I didn't deserve it. These feelings just spiral around and then out of control. I guess we need to work on my coping skills.
And so we ended on a fairly good note. I was still scared that I had "ruined" our relationship and I still have a lot more to say but that can wait until Monday. I feel okay and vastly relieved that he is back...
Thank you all for helping me get through these difficult two weeks. It really made a difference to be able to come here and vent and hear what everyone else had to say and not feel so alone. Thanks!
TN
Hey there TN. Thanks so much for updating us! I've been meaning to reply, but I have been pretty busy. I'm free now though!
First, I'm really glad that your t suggested you two have a second meeting. Sometimes, it just takes more than an hour, and when THEY notice that, and don't want us to suffer for a week, it feels pretty good (even if we feel shitty and are having a hard time!).
I SO understand this! Something about the fresh memory of something t says or does can really help to "melt" my resistance. It's so easy to get lost in that "oh, he/she doesn't really care about me anyway" place when we don't get to look at them or hear them. I'm so happy that you were able to soften enough to be honest, but you didn't just wash over your feelings!
And it sounds like you two really worked together well the second day. I'm glad that he can listen to you and be open to your ideas and thoughts. It sounds like that is huge for you, and I certainly understand why you were angry about feeling like he was trying to fix you.
I'm also glad that you two ended on a good note. I can "hear" your relief and hope that your "day-to-day" is getting easier and more regulated.
-CT
First, I'm really glad that your t suggested you two have a second meeting. Sometimes, it just takes more than an hour, and when THEY notice that, and don't want us to suffer for a week, it feels pretty good (even if we feel shitty and are having a hard time!).
quote:Monday night I had some time to process my thoughts and feelings, remembering how sincere he looked when he apologized to me for upsetting me and not recognizing I was in pain.
I SO understand this! Something about the fresh memory of something t says or does can really help to "melt" my resistance. It's so easy to get lost in that "oh, he/she doesn't really care about me anyway" place when we don't get to look at them or hear them. I'm so happy that you were able to soften enough to be honest, but you didn't just wash over your feelings!
And it sounds like you two really worked together well the second day. I'm glad that he can listen to you and be open to your ideas and thoughts. It sounds like that is huge for you, and I certainly understand why you were angry about feeling like he was trying to fix you.
I'm also glad that you two ended on a good note. I can "hear" your relief and hope that your "day-to-day" is getting easier and more regulated.
-CT