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10 replies

T Update and Surgery

True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Sorry I haven't been around lately. I've been too deep into my own grief to be of any help to anyone here. And I realize that my original posts triggered a lot of people about the stability and safety they have with their own Ts and for that I'm so sorry.

I've been seeing my T twice a week for the past 3 weeks to try to both keep myself somewhat calm and safe and also to have more time to work on so much that was sort of pushed to the side by our fighting over whether I should go or stay with him. Last Thursday we had a session that did not end well at all. We started off okay and then he started to throw so many things at me all at once.... telling me to try DBT with another T, that he feels that I need medication (sore point with me) and then he started on how we need to change all the boundaries and then he started naming so many things, like my attending parenting meetings for the camp kids, gift giving, emails and phone calls, and our hugs. I think I started to dissociate when he got to that point because he caught me and said he knew exactly when I left the room, when he mentioned the gifts and the hugs. I do give him gifts, usually under $10 for birthday, father's day, and year end holiday. Most of the stuff I have given has been related to what we are talking about and tends to spur deeper conversation about it. And the hugs...he gave me one last year on my birthday and has offered them to me over the last year or I can ask for one. Not every session but the hard ones. They have helped to ground me during those hellish sessions which ended before he could bring me back to reality. They were so important to me and I made the effort to discuss them with him so that nothing was left ambiguous. I told him it was safe touch for me and it was healing, grounding and comforting. That it has had only positive results and because I have always had such a hard time allowing people to touch me when I'm in emotional pain, this was a huge step.

Although he never said if he was actually taking these things away (although he has not touched me since my birthday 3 weeks ago), just that some things needed changing... we never finished the conversation because time was up and I was so far gone away from the room I was not even sure where I was at that moment. I sort of ran out of his office and down the outside stairs and he followed me. I didn't realize this until he touched my shoulder and said to wait a minute. I had to lean on the wall to steady myself and he said he wanted me to come back because we needed more time. That he had someone waiting so he couldn't keep me there but he offered me a free half session later that day. I couldn't talk or think so I said I would let him know.

When I got back to work he called me and offered me a better time for me and asked me to come back. So I did. I thought I would be okay but basically I sat there and crief for most of the time and he never brought up the boundary issues. Maybe he felt I was too upset still. So we talked a bit about his vacation time and what I feel when he leaves. I have a workbook that I have been doing to help with his upcoming vacation and I had wanted to share it with him but again ... we ran out of time. He told me if I needed to see him before our next appt in a week to let him know.

So I emailed him the next day and asked for an appointment and he mailed back that he could fit me in today. On Saturday I got a totally unexpected email with a huge list of quotes about courage and strength. He told me I could comment on them but to understand that he would not reply. That sort of took the glow off the email although I have to understand that he took the time and made the effort to do this for me and to offer me encouragement. Most of this had to do with my telling him how upset I am over my upcoming surgery.

On Saturday I finally gave in and went to see my GP and asked him for anti-anxiety meds. The last few weeks have left me totally depleted in strength to face what is going on with me and him and also my upcoming surgery and his vacation. My GP wrote a prescription for Ativan (Lorazepam). I took it yesterday and today. They make me feel really tired, lessen the anxiety but evidently not the sadness.

Today we focused on my upcoming surgery. I have never had any kind of surgery before, never been under general anesthesia. Have only been in the hospital once for pneumonia 20 years ago for one week and it was NOT a good experience. I will need to stay overnight and hopefully come home the next day. I think I'm reacting a with more anxiety than some would have due to my trauma and abuse background and the more I learn of this the more it's triggering some bad stuff for me. The idea of having to sleep in a place with no locks on the door is upsetting me a lot. Knowing there are strangers walking around and I could be pretty knocked out on painkillers is scaring me. Then I found out that they put a mask on you to knock you out... and I totally freak out with anything over my mouth/nose area. This comes from when I was being abused, my abuser kept his hand over my face so I would stay quiet. I felt like I was suffocating and I could not do anything. I was powerless just like you are in surgery. And people are doing things to your body, which is making me so triggered I'm afraid that I'm going to run screaming out of the OR unless they tie me down.

I tried to explain some of this to my T and although he was properly empathic, I think he was at a loss. He talked to me about how brave I am and how I have already overcome so much and that I can do this and I will be proud of myself when it is over and to focus on the part where I'm feeling good again.

Then of course he HAD to mention that there are other Ts who do this kind of work that could "erase" that particular trauma from my mind. Which then caused me to get upset and he immediately reassured me by saying "I'm here and I'm not going anywhere" which did help a lot.

And so, I'm coming here to ask those of you with trauma/abuse backgrounds how you handle surgery/hospitals/doctors/dentists etc. How do you handle being unable to protect yourself, deal with meds, face surgery where you have NO control? All I can do right now is pop some pills.

Thanks for listening.
TN
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scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
Oh TN, I wish I was there to give you a big safe hug. I can really hear and feel the pain in your message. How upsetting for your T to suddenly launch into a discussion about changing everything all at once. I think that would send anyone spinning.

When I was reading your fears about surgery, I was reminded of a surgery that I had when I was 23. I was worried ahead of time, but it wasn't until I got to the pre-surgery waiting area that I freaked out. I started sobbing and telling the doctor that I couldn't do it. I was too scared. The fears were exactly what you describe. Being on a table, unable to control a darn thing and drugged. To make matters worse it was female surgery (related to infertility) so they were going to be in a very private area without my knowledge at the time. In hindsight, I think it would have helped to not only have some anti-anxiety meds on board pre-surgery, but also to have discussed (not in great detail) my trauma background with my doctor. If I had been able to connect with him and perhaps a female nurse ahead of time to let them know how scared I was and why. If I could have been reassured by them that they were going to look out for me and make sure nobody hurt me. I think that would have helped.

I think your T might be referring to EMDR. It can be quite useful and it's possible that you could find a T for the EMDR stuff and then still see your regular T.

I wish I had better advice or some sort of great remedy to give you to make this all easier. I can say that I completely understand why it is so triggering and upsetting for you. Does your T ever do any guided imagery with you? Perhaps something like that would be helpful and if you could record it to play during the pre-op until you fall asleep all the better.
J jillMember
truenorth, you have been through the ringer lately and i am so sorry. the tension with your t and the upcoming surgery. i am glad you opted to try an anti anxiety...i take clonozapan, .25, often. not daily, but it sure helps, and i do NOT feel unable to control what i do or say, so i hope you feel comfortable to take what you need to get through.

i don't really have any brainy advise, but it sure does sound like a caring t, maybe he threw too much out there for one appt, i am trying to realize mine is human, and go through some bumps on the road, rather than running in search of perfection. so, i am preaching what i am not good at, and i don't know your history with him, except what i read here, but i would never fancy a t coming after me if i ran out...they would just let me go, so, the relationship you have has so much strength, i guess, realize his humanity, and work with it as best you can.

i wish it was easy for us all, hugs, jill
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
quote:
I think your T might be referring to EMDR. It can be quite useful and it's possible that you could find a T for the EMDR stuff and then still see your regular T.

I wish I had better advice or some sort of great remedy to give you to make this all easier. I can say that I completely understand why it is so triggering and upsetting for you. Does your T ever do any guided imagery with you? Perhaps something like that would be helpful and if you could record it to play during the pre-op until you fall asleep all the better.


Thanks for your response STRM and your story. The EMDR is a problem for a few reasons. One is that I cannot afford to work with two Ts. The other is that there are no EMDR T's I can find in my area that are male. I won't work with a female T under any circumstances. I would never be able to trust them enough to do trauma work with them and I know how important the safety aspect is to do EMDR. I would want to run out and back to my current T.

I like the suggestion of guided imagery! He has sort of done that with me at times in an informal way. I wish my ipod could record, don't think it does. I could maybe get my old mini-cassette recorder out and ask him if he'd be willing to do that for me.

BTW, what ever happened to you after you freaked out in the pre-op area? How did you survive the surgery, what did they tell you? Don't mean to pry, just share what you feel you can. And thanks.

Jill... thanks for the reassurance and kind words, they mean a lot.

TN
scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
TN,

I'm sorry, I didn't think about financial considerations or that you don't want to work with a female T. I remember you saying that before and I had forgotten.

I think some ipod's record. I have a small digital recorder. It has internal memory built in and records really well. I think you can buy them for $50-75. You could always buy one and then return it after you record the guided imagery and download it to your computer. Totally not ethical probably, but just a thought.

Well, I had to go into the surgery anyway because I really wanted to have a baby. They took me in and I was still crying. They agreed to let my husband stay with me in pre-op until the last possible second. Then I begged them to tell me exactly what they were doing before they did it. They said they would and the last thing I remember is getting the injection into my IV to make me fall asleep and that was it. I don't remember anything else except for waking up.

Oh and for what it's worth, I am anti-meds, but finally caved and saw my GP and have been taking Xanax at night for a little over a month as needed. It has really helped.
blackbirdblackbirdMember
I'm sorry you are scared TN. Fear is an awful thing to be dealing with. Porbably good that you are taking thsoe meds to get you through this. In past I've dealt with hospital stuff by numbing myself out emotionally, but now that I've had some therapy and am aware that's what I was doing, I'm not sure if it would work anymore. Probably not the best coping mechanism, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I like the guided imagery idea, too. Let us know if that works out for you.

(((((TN)))))))

I'm so sorry for the grief and pain you are going through in T right now. It is so hard, so very hard.

BB
mayomayoMember
Hey TN,

I am so sorry to hear about your pain.
I take lorazapam, only as needed, and it makes me tired too. Since I am a small person, I cut them in half. A half a pill lessens the anxiety and I feel less tired. I take it on an "as needed basis" so I feel it is my decision. This helps with the "I am opposed to taking meds" part of me.

My trauma although sexual in nature is different from yours (not forced - lured with candy and gifts at an early age) so I can not help you with the surgery part. Perhaps if your mention to the regular surgery doctors about your trauma- ie trouble with mask, without details, before the surgery, perhaps they can come up with an idea. You are not the first person to experience this, and maybe they hae dealt with this before. Just a thought.
Just to tell you the lorazapam is not a big deal for me now, and I pray that your T troubles are resolved. It does sound like he is reevaluating his own boundry issues at your expense. So sorry for that.
russrussMember
TN,

I'm so sorry for this hell you're going through (and have been going through for so long). My background is not specifically similar to yours but I think our symptoms are in the same ballpark.

I take Klonopin when my HFOF (Head Fog of Fear) gets too intense. I've been taking it as needed for many years, starting back when I first started having panic attacks in 1990.

For almost 20 years, whenever I had an attack (between 6-10 times a year), I'd take 1/2mg of the stuff and within 40 minutes I'd be perfectly fine, if a little rattled. It worked beautifully.

Now, the best it can do is sedate me. It doesn't do much for the fear anymore since the fear took on its current, more beastly intensity a little over 2 years ago.

And for me, it's not a phobic kind of fear, and it's not intense worry, either - it's just this awful, physical fear/dread that something terrible is about to happen.

I have to say that your post made me cry, partly because I don't really have any good advice for you. I hate hospitals. But I wonder if maybe bringing along some things that you hold dear might give you a tiny bit of comfort. A poem, a stuffed animal, some flowers. Will there be someone there to hold your hand? I think that would help, too. Or maybe a really caring, male nurse who helps people who struggle with fears of surgery?

As for the general anesthesia mask, I remember having the thing on for about 1 second before I was out cold, but I'm sure that doesn't offer much comfort for you.

Anyway, I hope this helps some in some way.

Russ
starfishstarfishMember
TN

Most anaesthetics are administered with an injection in a vein, ususally in the back of the hand or forearm. Some anaethetists like to place an oxygen mask over your face initially to give you some extra oxygen (but this only happened to me when I was having a caesarian, to boost oxygen levels to the baby).

You will have an opportunity to speak to your anaesthetist before your surgery, you could tell him/her that you are anxious about having a mask over your face and request that this might not happen to you if at all possible. Also, many anaesthetists are willing to give a 'pre-med' dose of medication to help relax, prior to going to theatre.

I don't know if this helps at all TN, it's all fine for me to say this but I know from personal experience how hard such procedures are...I find them all very scary. So my heart goes out to you TN,

Big hug,

starfish x x
Last edited by starfish
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
STRM, thanks for telling me the end of the story and I guess it worked out for you as I know you have children now. I will talk to my T about the guided imagery, I know he used it one time with my son who was afraid of having nightmares and he told him a really nice story about what he needs to think of and perhaps he can do the same for me. I have a small tape recorder I can use if he agrees to it. I'm glad the Xanax is helping you. It's so hard to give in and take the drugs. In my case, it's like a huge defeat. I am so broken I cannot handle my own pain and fears and I need to resort to medication. It just really pisses me off. Of course this only applies to ME, everyone else is fine if they need medication and I'm totally understanding of that and even supportive. I guess I feel I don't deserve the help myself.

Mayo thanks for sharing your med experience with me. I think using it on an as needed basis works for me too because I control it. It's not like a med you need to take every day at a certain time. I am having my pre-op appointment Thursday morning and will try to get some of my questions answered and perhaps will find some calm in talking to someone who is familiar with the routine. I am so frazzled from the disruption with me T that I'm handling this surgery stuff so badly. At our last meeting he seemed a bit "softer" with me and more empathic... like his old self. I hope we can find some peace and understanding from all of this.

Russ...You always help me with your responses and I appreciate you taking the time to write. Right now my fear has taken on that beastly intensity so I can only sympathize with what you must have to deal with daily. I'm so sorry and I hope you find your own peace one day soon. I also like your suggestion of taking a comfort item with me. I have thought about taking my little stuffed dog that my T gave me last summer. My husband will be with me but he is not the most sympathic person... his mantra is don't be such a baby and just deal with it, it's nothing. So while his physical presence may be good I just can't really talk to him about what I'm feeling.

Thanks Starfish for telling me about your experience. I have heard from someone that they will give me some sedation before the anesthesia but I don't know if that will help me. I am so freaked out about any drugs that the thought of them just pouring all kinds of chemicals into my IV does not comfort me much. It's a med phobia that I have which makes anything medical so much worse for me. I don't even want to take the painkillers.

I know I'm hopeless but I do thank all of you that have responded. It's nice to know that someone understands and cares.

Hugs
TN

BB... you are so kind and I appreciate you sharing with me your thoughts. Yeah fear is so hard. That is probably the biggest hurdle we need to work on in therapy. Fear surrounds everything for me... I have SO many fears my poor T has his work cut out for him. It can be so exhausting dealing with them all the time.

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