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15 replies

Take the risk?

yakusokuyakusokuMember
So, I have another (long) journal entry to send T (as he invited me to do yesterday) and all of a sudden I can't send it. Part of it is sensitive childhood sexual development stuff that has been coming up for me, so yeah, that makes sense. The other part is explicitly asking to talk about the attachment stuff. This is only the last paragraph of the entry. Do I pull the trigger and send it to him and basically push us into discussing it, because it's like an elephant in the room every week? Or do I keep sitting on my hands and feel crushed by it, hoping it will magically become lighter? Why is it so hard to risk myself even though T is steady? For clarification, he called me "Kiddo" several times early on and I let him know how it feeds into my transference stuff as it is a nickname my dad used for me and I use for my younger siblings and daughter. Lately, I have been referring to inner, little me as Kiddo in journal entries.

Excerpt from Journal:
I just wanted to thank you for encouraging (praising?) my willingness to associate myself with and accept Kiddo. It is difficult to do so and let go of the humiliation at the same time, but perhaps essential to my beginning to become more comfortable with being in a position of need and dependence, without abusing myself out of fear or anger. I think, as much as it scares me, it is going to be very important for us to address the “attachment” stuff I keep referring to. I feel like I have kind of cheated my way around it by going out of my way to identify the childhood injuries behind it, perhaps hoping that I will not have to talk about my feelings in the present. Our previous discussions on my transference map (e.g. how my pain which I know is about the past feels like it is about others, including you) have given me no reason to believe I will scare you away. It seems very risky, though, so I will need it to be a very directed conversation. I know my fears of rejection, abandonment or otherwise losing connection are out of proportion, and that in itself is valuable to talk about. I am realizing that if I am going to let Kiddo do the talking, rather than continue to play the telephone game where everything comes out garbled and delayed, she has to know she’s safe and won’t be left. She needs to know the rules, what needs are OK to have, what things she is allowed to ask for and what things are out of scope. For example, can she ask to move the table (yes, the evil one)? Can she ask you to sit on the same side of the room? Can she move to the floor without it making you distress her by “running away”? What will you do if she is upset, inconsolable, if she cries? I’m not really sure if that’s even possible, but I have been close and only feeling like a zoo exhibit has held it back. Is it weird to use third person here? It seems odd, but also it fits, because I (writing this on her behalf) can accept any answers to these questions, but the part of me that is in pain whenever I enter your office is very scared. She is desperate, and in a parental way, I am desperate and scared for her as well.
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lamplighterlamplighterMember
Yaku that is beautifully written and very clear and direct. I'd be very surprised if he didn't respond positively to your sending it.

I've just got one slight reservation, that you yourself have commented on in the text - that you are referring to yourself in the third person. While you've made it very clear exactly what you are saying and meaning and asking for, I know that if I were a T and receiving a post like that, I'd be wanting the sender to take the ultimate and courageous step to own those needs and wants and feelings as her own, by saying 'I need to know that I'm safe and won't be left, I need to know the rules, what will you do if I get upset or if I cry, can I move the table...' etc

Pretty scary I know and it's easy for me to sit here and say this. Maybe worth thinking about though? In any case, well done you for writing it out - I hope you do pluck up the courage to send it.

LL
yakusokuyakusokuMember
LL - the purpose of using the third person is not to not own those feelings, but to help T understand that the way I feel in his presence is very different than how I feel at any other time. There are times when I'm not completely overwhelmed with wanting to be close to him, but any time I am talking with him or thinking about being vulnerable, I feel it strongly.

Edit: I did want to say, LL, that I have indirectly let him know that *I* feel a desire to be closer, but am afraid to talk/ask about it. So, the "she" is actually the more vulnerable tactic from my perspective. It is me seeing myself as a little girl and relating to her pain, being kind and gentle with her feelings. When I see myself as an adult asking for these things, I tend to beat the crap out of myself for them...so, I guess if I am protecting myself from anyone, it's actually me!
J janedoeMember
Yaku ~ yeah, I agree, it would be very much worth the risk to send that to your T. I think it could really help. It is beautifully written and insightful.

A lot of Ts operate from a perspective that leads them to make the interpretation that talking about ourselves in the 3rd person is a sign of how much we are connected with what we feel. They figure that when we think and talk about ourselves in the third person it is about the distance we put between ourselves and what we are feeling. They would take it as a defense mechanism - that we distance ourselves in this way because the feelings are so intense and we don't have the coping mechanisms (and much more) to connect to them and integrate them more.

If you are concerned that your T will think that how you feel when you are with him is how you feel all the time, when that is not the case, then what about leaving what you wrote as is (just as you wrote it) and adding a post script of sorts that maybe explains to him how and why you use the third person? I think it would be really helpful for him to know just that just how you explained it here.

Just a thought,
~jd
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, Jane and DF. That feedback was really helpful. Haha, I wish someone would just tell me "exactly" what to do. That would be much easier. Why do people insist on me making decisions for myself? GRRRRR.

What if I add:
I suppose my use of the third person is a form of distancing myself from these questions, of risking less, but it is also my attempt to communicate to you that I sometimes feel very strongly connected to my attachment feelings, while at other times (like now), their intensity is minimized by observing them from without rather than residing within them.

Does that seem to fit with the rest?
J janedoeMember
(((Yaku))) you will make a good decision! It is all you, and it is ok to tell him however you need to tell him, and to remind yourself (and let us help) everything you are writting about is totally ok and acceptable to have and feel, and express to tell your T. The more you can tell him, in whatever way you can, the more he is likely to be able to help more. Regardless if you send it to him or not, you are still doing really good work. Keep at it!
Last edited by janedoe
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, Jane. I sent it. I even sent the really sensitive stuff from my childhood. I put disclaimers around it and let him choose whether to read it or not. Basically, I felt like taking the step of putting it "in the light" as T always says, was the important part. Whether or not he reads it, the act of exposing it and not holding it within myself is part of my healing, I think. Hopefully, he doesn't disagree.

I agree that I'm not really risking by sharing my attachment stuff. The only real risk I am running is if T says, as there is a real possibility, "No, I won't move closer. My boundary is to stay at a distance." And, then I will hurt so badly. And either, I will stay and do the work to get through why it hurts me so much that he is far away or it will feel too unsafe to be vulnerable again and I will bail in therapy (or at least, my beloved T). H thinks he will not move closer and he's right not to do so. I think, "Well, sheesh, I'm not asking to sit in his lap or anything." I just want to capture the feeling of safety and connectedness I've had in the few times where we have conversed at a shorter distance. I can't believe I sent all those specific questions. Ugh, on Tuesday he might answer them and I can hear him now. "No, I need to maintain my position on this side of the room. We can't move the table, because the point is to make it a boundary in between us. If you move to the floor, I will always choose a new spot that is an appropriate distance away. If you cry, I will be sad, I will pray for you, but that's all I can offer." And I will shut down, say, "OK, I understand," and never want to go back again. Frowner
J janedoeMember
Yaku ~ yay! way to be courageous!

And yeah, I think it is not a small thing if your T said no. That would hurt a lot. It's hard to be vulnerable and have something we ask for in that vulnerability not be met in the way we asked for, and your T could say no to moving physically closer. And that would suck. However, he could say yes. And either way, talking about this, talking about the things you need and want and that would help you, is a part of being closer in the relationship, and eventually healing, even if your T can't/won't phsyically move close.

It would be so painful for me to ask and not get a yes. I really get that. It hurts. I'd really struggle to not shut down too. But even if he says no, it was still good to ask and a very valid and legit need you have that was really good to express to him.

It is true your T could say no to this, or he could say no to something else you might need and ask for down the road. One of the most helpful things I do with my T is talk about how I can handle the pain of the times when she can't meet what I need in the moment. We talk about it before and after things happen. (Like even much "smaller" things, like a phone call she can't return in time or a session she has to cancel or something she can't do because it doesn't fit her boundaries.) It's so hard when she says no or otherwise can't meet the need. I have found that it does help over time to still say and ask for what I need. Even if she can't hear it, she knows and can help in different ways, and it also makes the relationship go deeper somehow. I don't really get it, but I have read and heard it's the same for others too. It's also seriously hard to do and risk and have to walk through, but it's also often really healing too.

If your T does say no, please remember, he's not rejecting you as a person. It's so easy to say this from the outside of it, and it can be so hard to hang on in the middle of the pain of a possible no - which is kind of why I'm saying this, not to scare you at all, but just in case he does say no. He may say no for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you at all, just him and his own stuff, or all kinds of reasons - which doesn't take the pain away, but I hope might make it easier to walk through. No matter what his answer is, please remember it was very good to ask. It's honest and authentic. He could say yes, he could meet you half way, he could meet your need in other ways, and all of that would be AWESOME! And, regardless if he says yes or no, it will hopefully lead to deeper connection about what you need and don't need, and learning and hopefully experiencing that your needs are legit and ok to have, even when they are not met. (does this make any sense?)

I'm so glad you told your T about this, shared with him what you wrote about what's going on for you, and asked for what you want and need. It's really awesome. I hope (and pray) your T will be able to move in closer and help you feel safer.

lots of hugs,
~jd
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, Jane. I guess I am just projecting a "no," because I've had so many journal entries that have indirectly told him about my wanting closeness (from people in general) and how him moving closer or moving away made me feel. So, I guess I figure if that was something he was willing to do, he would have brought it up himself by now. This has been coming up in my journals for a few months now, so if he was willing, would he really wait for me to explicitly ask, even when I've said in sessions how uncomfortable the room and the way we sit makes me. If the answer would yes, wouldn't I know by now?

Frowner I feel so certain it is no and I don't know if I can stay around him in that amount of pain and talk about it.
jonesjonesMember
Yaku, I think it's very possible that if he were willing, he would still wait for you to explicitly ask. There is a process for you involved in identifying your need, assessing the risk, getting in touch with the deep pain associated with the feeling of risk, beginning to process that pain. Your sense of this underlying pain and your preference to avoid it, all the various strategies you will have (we all have) to avoid it will be playing out not only here but in the rest of your life.

So yes, I can see that he would give you the space to go right through this process, and choose not truncate it by himself stepping forward to meet your need before you are ready to articulate it directly. That moment of readiness is important.

J
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Jones - Thank you for the reassurance. I hope that's true. It's confusing to feel so strongly that him just sitting with me will make such a world of difference. I don't know why, after years of only ever receiving closeness and affection in a romantic/sexual context, I am suddenly so desperate for it. But, that's what T is drawing out of me.
jonesjonesMember
Monte, that's a terrific post.
quote:
I know he will incorporate physical contact as a tool in this with me, but it is clear to me it is not intended as a regular part of our interactions...ie, he will not greet me with a hug or hold my hand for the sake of it...because that would suggest a level of casual intimacy that is not there. But hell I want him to...I want the relationship to be such that all that is acceptable. It hurts that it never will be and this is what I am there to explore.


This expresses something really important and subtle. I have the feeling that just providing casual intimacy would allow us to disconnect from the pain - and from the work of the pain - which would allow the pain to just disappear and resurface to wreak havoc in the rest of lives....

Thank you.

Jones
yakusokuyakusokuMember
You guys make a great point. I would love for his default position to be "with me," but it really is something that should be reserved for the necessity of working through overwhelming stuff. Just because I feel child-like feelings toward him, does not mean that what I really need or should receive from him is a parental connection.

What I really wish for, is when I get to that point where I cannot even speak, because I am in so much pain and he feels too far away for my words to cross the distance, that he would approach and ground me, so I am able to feel the safety of someone being "with" me in that pain.

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