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Hi all.... I know I haven't written about my sessions for awhile. I'm not sure why. Some of what we have tackled is reflected in the title of this thread. I know I mentioned somewhere on a thread that I was very angry with my T because he seemed to dismiss my fears of processing some trauma in my background. I was also angry with him for bringing up another patient who has been with him for many years and I felt that he was comparing me to her all the time and I was coming out on the short end. This was in a session last week. And because I was so upset (including yelling at him in my sleep) I decided I needed to call him the next day.

So last Friday I called him and told him that I was struggling with a lot of angry feelings towards him. And to please never mention his Ms. Perfect Star Patient again to me that I was tired of hearing about how wonderful she is and how I can't measure up. He said he never meant to have me feel that there was a comparison going on because he was only holding her up to me to give me hope that I could do "this". That he has seen the process with someone with a similar background and I just need to trust the process. I am having problems trusting anything.

I was also angry that when I brought up the topic of how difficult it was to even imagine processing trauma and abuse in 45 minutes and then rushing back to work and having to be perfectly normal and in control he told me that he could patch me up after the session and I would be able to function at work and then I could process stuff when I got home. That made me furious because it felt like he was saying... oh yeah don't worry I'll slap a band aid on your gaping wounds and no problem. You go back to the real world and do your job. It felt like he made light of how enormous the idea of talking to him about trauma when I knew I had to leave him so quickly and go back into the public world where I am scrutinized.

He told me that he did say he would be able to contain the trauma until we could work on it again when we met the next time. He did not want to slap a band aid on it. He just felt that he had enough experience and knowledge and I was strong enough and I just had to get to a point of trusting enough to allow it to happen. So I told him that it felt like he was telling me to jump off a ten story building and I would not get hurt when I hit bottom and I'm looking down and I see concrete and I'm thinking, are you nuts? I'm not jumping! Eeker

What he said was that he is not asking me to jump off a ten story building. He said we are standing at the top of a long flight of stairs and he is only asking me to hold his hand and take ONE step down. That is all. Well, that just absolutely melted me. The visual of him standing next to me and taking my hand to steady me, guide me and protect me on the stairs was very powerful. My anger just dissipated and what was left was an intense connection back to my T and the feeling that I was cared for and that he would always protect me. Oh, and btw, at the end of the conversation he told me that he just wanted me to know that I am a good deal ahead of where that other patient was at this point in therapy and that he was very proud of me and pleased with my progress.

Another issue we have been trying to work on is that I have been totally blanking out at the end of our sessions. I have absolutely NO memory of shaking his hand, putting on my coat or walking out of his office. I cannot remember our last few minutes together. We discussed this and it may be that I still have some separation anxiety at leaving him. But he also suggested something that I think is very valid. He said that it was the child who was causing me to dissociate when she felt unheard or if she still had something to say to him. This really resonated with me because I recalled that at the end of the recent session we were talking about some issues (me in adult mode) but it seemed like in my head I was hearing a voice that was screaming about something else. A different topic that I never addressed that day. He told me that was the child who wanted to be heard and had something to say. So I have been trying to be more aware of what I'm hearing in my mind and to stop ignoring it out of fear.

We also talked about slowing down the ending and to make them less abrupt. My T does sort of abruptly end sessions with little warning and then I feel that I have to run out of there and not use up 30 seconds more than I am allowed. This is not something that comes from my T. It's a habit from the past that we need to explore further. Yesterday, T gave me a longer warning and then he asked me if the child had anything to say before we ended. So I told him that she was a little scared because he was leaving and we wouldn't see him until Tuesday. He is taking a long weekend to travel somewhere. He reassured us that he would be there on Tuesday waiting for us as always. He firmly shook my hand and then rubbed my arm. I can remember that. He did check in before we shook hands and asked if I was present. All of this has helped me to hold him close to me today. Now if only it will last until Tuesday.

Another thing I have been attempting to do relates to tea Big Grin About 3 weeks ago while discussing our relationship I got angry and yelled at him that this is not really a "real" relationship. It's not like I can just sit down with him on Saturday afternoon and have a cup of tea with him and chat. He smiled at me and said, well why not? Why can't you have a cup of tea with me? Of course he didn't mean we would actually meet for tea but that I could find a few quiet moments on Saturday afternoon for a cup of tea and use the time to focus on our strong connection and our good relationship. That I could talk to him as if he was there and I knew him well enough to know what he would "say" to me. So I've been trying that. It does help to keep him close to me and when he feels close to me, I'm a stronger person. Holding him close instead of pushing him away because he is not really there or I'm angry that he really cannot be with me on Saturday afternoon, makes me oddly feel good and happy in those moments.

There are a few other things we are working on simultaneously. Sometimes I have so much to talk to him about that it's difficult to figure out what is most urgent. I am facing a personal developmental challenge which I will write about more in depth in another post. And we have begun to chip away at the more intimate aspects of the T/patient relationship and how that impact me. A lot of it has to do with "proximity". How I long to be close to him while at the same time terrified of being close to him in a physical way more than an emotional way. I have been dancing around this for a long time. At times I will mention it and then back off and try to redirect the conversation. Other times, the child is screaming about it and I'm ignoring her. It was a difficult conversation but I hung in and he was enormously pleased with me. I could see it on his face. He got so excited it was cute. We have a lot more to work through on this but it was a start.

Lastly, there is the topic of control. T keeps telling me that I'm not in control of the therapy and that I need to stop trying to be. I'm still confused about this. I told him that yes I am in control because I can just stop talking to him. He said that is not what he meant. Aside from that, I don't think I'm trying to keep control of the therapy and I don't know what I'm doing that makes him think that I am. Has anyone ever had this "control" conversation with their T?? I'm curious to hear anyone else's experience with this.

So that is an update on what I've been doing over the past month or so. Thanks for reading.

TN
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Hi, TN. Your T sounds like a real keeper. :-)

It sounds like he is really listening to you and responding to where you are. I have to say that I, too, would find the prospect of processing trauma and then going back to work to be overwhelming. I have always been able to finagle end of the day or evening sessions when I was working. My T currently works just a 9-5 schedule and I worry a bit about what will happen once I go back to work, however that is some time in the future.

I get the needing time to regroup at the end of the session. My T and I learned the hard way that I need a significant amount of time to do this: 10-15 minutes depending on how intense the session is/how deeply I have gone into a dissociated state. Sometimes it is a productive time to process the session. Sometimes I need the entire time to figure out what year I am in.

My version of trying to have some control is always trying to understand what happened/why it happened/ etc.. Doing my best to understand was my coping mechanism as a child and it still is decades later. My T tells me that one of my current tasks is to learn to sometimes just accept. I don't know if that strikes a chord for you or not.
(((TN))) So proud of all your hard work!! I am beyond impressed with how you were able to be so open with T about your anger, and let the honesty of how it was effecting you come through. I'm relieved T addressed your concerns and gave you that beautiful visual of the staircase Smiler

I can relate to feeling as if the child wants to be heard and it makes it difficult to honor adult mode and child mode sometimes, especially within a time frame. I couldn't help but wonder if having the tea on saturdays sort of soothes both on adult and child levels? I could be off there, but I just imagine it would feel that way for me somehow, not sure why really.. think the idea of it is just so warm and connecting, it's brilliant.

My only guess about the 'control' of therapy is to wonder if he's referring to how old T let you take care of him? Maybe by control he means he wants you to know that you don't have to go this alone or be in charge of boundaries or take care of him or anything like that this time? Could be his way of trying to reassure you of that?

Glad to read the updates! Hug two

(edited to add that I'm always afraid my thoughts rarely come out how I mean them to and end up offensive I just wanted to clarify about my post I didn't mean in ANY way to insinuate about old T that you did anything wrong AT ALL. Just hope it didn't come across that way, and sorry if it did at all Frowner)
Last edited by armoredheart
((TN)) wow, some very powerful stuff you've been doing! Sounds like really great work. You seem so brave.

Your T telling you that you need to stop being in control of the therapy is interesting to me. This is something I have struggled with since day one. Control. I'm not a perfectionist and I'm not a Type A person really, but I just need to feel in control at all times. It took me 2.5 years to cry in front of my T. I have deep issues with control. I do feel as if I try to control the therapy too. I think that's maybe why IFS (parts/child work) was so difficult for me. I didn't feel in control...and then, cue the soul crushing shame I would feel. And the shame would just shut me down, so yeah, that's the control I guess. My T and I have talked about control but she's never said that I need to let go of my control in therapy. I wonder if she thinks I need to though. We often talk about the wish/desire I could be my 'authentic' self with her...which I think just means that I don't have to always be so controlled and calculated.

Jeesh, sorry to ramble on about my own stuff. I just wanted to say that this is definitely an issue for me. I would love to read your continued work with your T and how you're able to give up some control. Like, what does that look like? What does that actually mean for you and for your T? How does that feel and how do you know you've 'given up control?' Have you ever felt like you've not been in control in therapy? Anyway, those can all be rhetorical, unless you want to answer Big Grin I am very interested in this control business though..and how to just give it up (in a controlled and safe way ha). Hugs to you, TN. Good work!!
Oh TN your T sounds just lovely, so tender. You're working on very difficult things in therapy and I wish I was as brave as you.

My T and I have talked about my issues with control in therapy but only briefly. She has told me that I have to let go a little and trust in her and let the process work. I sat there thinking uh yeah right. But I am trying, it's just so hard.
((((TN))))

quote:
it seemed like in my head I was hearing a voice that was screaming about something else. A different topic that I never addressed that day. He told me that was the child who wanted to be heard and had something to say. So I have been trying to be more aware of what I'm hearing in my mind and to stop ignoring it out of fear.



So glad you are finally starting to hear her. She is important and has important things to say. It amazes and saddens me how we get trained to push that stuff back and down. Good luck with the work you are doing with your T.
(((TN))) I love the stair imagery. I hope you can take that with you.

I think it's been hard for me to surrender control and trust, as well. I still spend a large chunk of the beginnings of my session in avoidance, because I can't trust him to get me through what's coming when I finally enter in...which I always do, eventually. But my waiting doesn't always leave him enough time to resolve and contain things as well as they could have if I would just trust right away and surrender that control. Maybe that's what your T is talking about? But, that sort of thing...I don't think it can be rushed. You can take the tiniest steps toward it, but if you jump in before you're ready, my experience is that it will cause a lot of stress on you, especially if you have protective parts of you keeping things in check.

I think it's great that your T is making sure you are present when you leave. My T has to do this with me frequently and obviously won't let another part leave (if he knows they're up front). A slightly different scenario, but I think it's a good policy to not let any client leave in a dissociated haze. Big Grin

Lots of coming your way.
I love your descriptions of your sessions, TN. So rich and detailed, and the way you discuss them has a way of making my sessions make more sense. I am very impressed with the work you're able to do with your T.

As for the whole subject of "control," -- oyy, do I resonate with that one (and I'm somewhat comforted that we seem to be in good company in the cafe)! My T often talks about how much I strive to be in control, and during our sessions it manifests itself in my desperately trying to question him, not on personal issues, but as an attempt to deflect what I might actually feel as I start talking about stuff.

Ughh...it's all very complicated, and I find myself shutting down when I try to be introspective. I think that's yet another reason I so appreciate your updates.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.
Thank you all for the wonderful responses. I've had a crazy day and am about to get some sleep and will respond individually tomorrow. I just wanted to thank you all for the support, nice words and especially for all the contributions regarding the issue of control. You all make such wonderful sense and there seem to be many ways that control can manifest itself within therapy.

AH... I just wanted to say you could never be offensive and I didn't take any part of your post in an offensive way at all. Thank you for your thoughts and you are correct about oldT. I did take care of him in many ways and part of that feed into my control issues.

I have to think about this more and will be back with my thoughts.

Love you all
TN
Hi Cat's Meow and welcome to the board. Nice to have you join us here. Thank you for your input on the control issue. I too try to figure it all out on my own and try to understand the why's and the what's. This could be part of the control thing or just that we are so used to doing it all on our own that we don't know how to ask for help in figuring stuff out in T.

Hi AH... thanks for saying you are proud of my hard work. It is hard because it's not consistent hard work/progress. Thursday was a very good day and today I took 2 steps back and am currently feeling angry at my T and just displeased about everything we addressed today. As for the tea... last Thursday my T told me I need to start having T for 3 now and invite child to come. That did not work out so well this weekend and it's likely because I was fretting that T was away (and why I missed my usual Monday session this week). It's true that oldT allowed me to take care of him and my T knows that I did this. And because I was sort of "in charge" in my last therapy, it's been terribly hard to let go of that control now and to allow my T to steer the course. He also tells me that much of my control is a false sense of control and not helping me. Thank you for your support.

hi Erica! thank you for your kind words. Some of what we do seems powerful but mostly it feels frustrating and anxiety provoking and sometimes triggering me into the spiral of self-hatred. Today was not a good session. I'm angry at T and I have not done a good job of managing the feelings when T goes away on a trip. Even a short one. As for the control you described.... I think that my T would like me to drop my control of who I think I should be in front of him and just be more authentic and more me (whoever he thinks that is). I tend to be a perfectionist and will pull myself together very well on the outside, even if the inside is messy and in turmoil, and will sit and be the "good girl" in session. I am so tamped down and just cannot let go. At least I have not recently done that. In the first few months I saw him I was a mess from trauma and was less in control. My defenses had been destroyed. As I got better... I got worse regarding my need for control.

Hi lucy and thanks for your input here. My T can be very lovely and very tough too. I know I don't appreciate him enough but I do respect his knowledge (but I still give him a hard time). The letting go is what I described above. That is just REALLY hard for me. It feels like something terrible will happen if I do or I will then be unable to pull myself together again.

Hi Liese... well I don't always hear or pay attention to "her". Today I was sullen and angry with T and he asked me what the child was saying and I just could not hear anything. It was silent. Maybe she was angry too. This is really hard messy stuff. Thanks for your support.

Hi Yaku... yeah I loved the whole stair imagery but unfortunately I could not hold onto it. It disappeared by Monday afternoon and instead I got anxious and upset and angry and I totally shut down. By the time I got to session today I was in major avoidance mode. I could not look at T unless he insisted that I look and even then it was an "unseeing" sort of look if that makes sense. It usually takes me about 15 minutes to even get to anything worth discussing and it's because I have to got through a whole litany of things in my head before I can calm down enough to talk to him. I have whole conversations in my head about his wife on the other side of the wall, wondering how sound proof it is, scared when I walk through reception that I will see her or that she is looking out her window and sees me, or that when I leave I will have to see other clients and I have to hide myself... and that is all before I have to figure out if I'm in a mood to trust T to tell him anything. If I'm in self-hatred mode then I want to be invisible and won't share anything with him because I want to be invisible. I totally agree the trust cannot be rushed. Today I seemed to move backwards...

hi outsider...thank you for your kinds words. they mean a lot. I am happy if my posting helps you with your sessions. That is always why I try to share my sessions. I know it has always helped me to read about other's sessions. I think your deflection with T is a defensive move to keep him from getting too close to you. You are trying to put the attention back to him. Hang in there and keep trying. Some days it works for me and other days it's just all seems so pointless.

I'm not sure if there were other posters here that deleted. If I missed you I'm sorry but I thank you.

I'm just in a bad/strange place after session today. T has told me that about once a month my Monday session will be bumped because he will be taking very long weekends to visit his "winter home" which is far away. This has triggered me in a really bad way for a number of reasons. Every time he goes there I am just so terrified that he will be sitting by the sea drinking a glass of wine and decide that this is where he wants to stay... permanently. It certainly would be a better life than dealing with a bunch of cranky, pissy patients. It also throws my rhythm off. He also takes week long trips there a few times a year. It just seems so much more threatening than when he would vacation in all different places. He didn't have an anchor or connection to any particular vacation spot. Now he does. It also puts him into a social category that I will never be part of ... I don't jet set around at the drop of a hat. I am losing the ability to relate to him. It just puts me off and reminds me how much of a failure I am when I see his life. I'll never have that life. When I tried to explain to him some of this he made a really stupid remark that felt like he stabbed me.

He pointed to his diplomas (3 of them) and said you have no idea what it's like to be in school until you are 30. I wanted to say a lot of stuff back to him but I could only manage to say ... do you have any idea what what it's like to go back to school in middle age? I also wanted to ask him if he knew what it was like to have a full time job in a large city at 18 because you couldn't go on to school and how it was to have to fight against parents who would have sent you to work at 16 (I graduated high school early). He KNOWS how I grieve my missing out on a college education and how hard I worked to get my B.S. and how hard it was for me to accept that I could not afford to go on to Grad School and I just had to put that dream to rest.

I am so angry and disappointed in him. I spent most of my session looking at the floor. I feel like we took about a thousand steps back in the trust department.

Thanks again everyone
TN
(((TN))) Sorry today's session was difficult and T holding your hand was hard to hold onto. It sounds like your T got a little defensive from his reaction, and started thinking about his own feelings about what you had said and lost focus a bit. I am confident you guys will repair this, but it just...sucks in the mean time. My T did the same thing last week. Regardless of whether or not your fears are accurate, they are important and needed to be heard without judgment or taking it personally (part of the difference of him being a T and not a different sort of relationship). I know from the amazing work you've done with this before that you guys will eventually hash this out, but in the meantime, take lots of hugs from us, because it sucks when we risk to say hard things that come up and our Ts don't get it or just aren't prepared to deal with it. Hug two
((TN)) that sounds excruciatingly hard. I mean, I would not be able to look at my T either in that situation, and I'm sure it would have made me space out. Your T sounds like he has been such a steady and warm, supportive person. But I do think this was a mistake. A big one. I really hope you can go back and talk about everything that comment brought up for you. He sounds like he hasn't been defensive in the past, so I'm hoping he can be open to hearing from you without having to defend himself. You really are so brave, how you are able to broach so many difficult and uncomfortable situations. I hope you and your T can repair this mistake.
Thanks, Yaku. I am sure we can hash this out in time... well at least the remark about being a student until 30. Not so sure I can ever relax about his frequent trips to his other house so far away. It requires a plane trip which also adds to my anxiety. The student remark was him putting his big foot in his mouth which he does on occassion but I also think that he allowed a bit of his own stuff creep into our conversation. He told me also that having a "getaway" helps refuel him for his work.

Thanks, erica, for your kind words. We have been through many disruptions and repairs along the 3 years we have been together. It's just not really fun when you are going through them and all kinds of stuff gets triggered. I know this is actually the work of therapy.... dealing with and processing the stuff that gets kicked up by the relationship and interacting with your T. My grief over my education (or lack thereof) has been on going and it feels like it will never end. It's like a gnawing hole inside of me that prevents me from feelign any worth or value in myself. And so his comment really hurt.

I see him in an hour so I have to decide where to go with all of this.

Thanks for the support.

TN

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