I was wondering the same thing as STRM here about whether a response from him would have made you question your decision? His lack of response is a testament to how horrible he has been to you. I'm so glad you have Cowboy T.

((((hugs))))

quote:

I was wondering the same thing as STRM here about whether a response from him would have made you question your decision? His lack of response is a testament to how horrible he has been to you.

thanks so much(((STRMS Kashley and UV-))) the thing is...is that I could definitely use that thought to my advantage, if in thinking it I didn't also, then think he has totally thought of that and is never responding to the termination "for me" in order to validate my perception of him as "bad T" and in that way "let me go free" which makes me just miss and need him even more. And, if that happens to be true, which I don't know if it is- it's just not a good way to deal with things. Honesty is the best policy. What a mind fuck.

Thank you, too, for your thoughts, FOT. It is so nice to see you. Of course my T is caught up in his own stuff, I know that is true...I guess I keep thinking he's thinking about me, and that is my first mistake- the reality is that he doesn't think about me at all, clearly. I guess I try to avoid that painful reality by thinking up all this stuff. It helps distract me from the truth that I don't matter to him at all, not even as a former client, not even enough to say a simple "thanks for letting me know, and I wish you well."

The reality is that I was never a "real" client because it was internet therapy.Which wouldn't have mattered if he was "just my therapist" but...right or wrong, he was so much more than that to me. Having that second-hand status as a "not real" client was immensely triggering for me, since I've never felt real to begin with. (Pinch me am I really here? )

I'm glad that your P is working out for you.. I'm beginning to understand how those of you who went through such horrible terminations felt, even though mine wasn't nearly as traumatic as what some of you endured. I think it's important to keep talking about it as much as you need to, because the nature of it seems to be that it's like a "double trauma" or...a truama on top of a trauma" for those whose T's were so abusive to them. (((((((FOT))))))

hugs,

BB

(((BB)))

I wish I had the right words, anything, something that would make you feel better. But I don't. I can only try to imagine how absolutely unbearable these feelings are for you.

Can you try to think of all those feelings for GuruT as unmet needs? And try to claim them as part of you, instead of something that he has control over? Grab them from out there in cyberland and pull them back into you and hold them tight. Hold them as you would your daughter when she is hurt and needs protection. He is not protecting those feelings, BB. You need to. He does not deserve your trust or your love.

(((BB))))

xoxo

Liese

((((BB)))) I've been away from the forum and just got caught up on your post. I'm so sorry you didn't get an acknowledgement from Guru. More evidence that the shortcomings in that therapy experience were his and I hope you can see that more and more as time goes on.

I do love hearing about your sessions with Cowboy. He is going up there with some of the other Ts we hear about on here as one of my favorites. I know you don't want to develop one of those all-consuming transferences for him, but at the very least, if it does happen accidentally, he seems like a safe target. My T is a safe target and that's really important if you end up in that attachment dynamic. So, although I'm sorry you're in pain over your experience with Guru, I am still so glad that you are in capable hands right now. I especially love how he jokes with you. It reminds me of my T and makes me feel very safe, that I can laugh and tease with him and feel at ease with that. I'm glad you have that too!

Thanks again, FOT..and Liese and Yaku- FOT, it's like- circumstances I guess. I can't figure it out. Yeah it will take time. I have homework this week, to try and figure out what it is about my T that I miss the most. It's hard to do that when I can't feel much about him, and yet I fell- too much. So I'm trying to figure that piece out. Do I focus on feelings, or actual things he did? I don't know how to do this assignment. yarg.

Liese, it's just so frustrating because I feel like if I reject him as "bad T who messed up" then I reject the "me" he was able to find inside of me, too. I can't seem to separate it, except with intellectual understanding, but it gets all confused. another yarg. I'm feeling piratey tonight.

Yaku I'm glad that you like to hear about the sessions, because I never know if I am carrying on too much about my stuff. It's nice to see you again. I'm so glad your T is holding steady for you.
I'm guess I'm probably also feeling so frustrated because I can't seem to get past the confusion. I keep trying to put into words, but I just can't seem to frame it, this..need to have him be either all good or all bad. It's like- I keep looking for proof that he was all bad, or at least seriously screwed up my therapy- because for some reason that makes me feel better about myself. But I can't reconcile that, with...the kind caring T that I have this huge attachment for anyways. Like- was I attached to him because he was hurting me? That would be seriously screwed up, right? I'm scared! I don't know quite who I am in any of the situations that could be...that he's a good T who cared about me- makes me seriously bad.
That he's a bad T who screwed up- makes me a victim
That he's a good T who screwed up...means I should have stayed and worked it out, but I just didn't have the strength or something- and it's the most painful helpless position to be in, so I guess I avoid it at all costs. any of three options are pretty ouchy though, I suppose.

it's making it really hard to know how deep it would be safe to go with Cowboy...like..should I continue therapy, or quit once I start to have feelings about him? I can't imagine being able to talk about those, if they come up.

yarg.

What if he's a good guy who is a bad T?

Or, a good T who is a bad fit for someone with attachment needs and better off sticking with a different modality of work?

There are loads of options that don't mean he has to be a bad person or horribly incompetent and also don't have to mean you somehow did something wrong.

Just something to consider. ((((more hugs))))

((((BB)))))

Just wanted to send big hugs. The pain is an endless cycle, isn't it? One day though, through your relationship with CowboyT, you are going to FEEL different. CowboyT will give you hope. Things will get better and the pain will subside. And a new way of living will just present itself to you. And GuruT will be but just a tiny part of all that is in your life, in your history. There will be sadness around the loss but it won't be so great. And all the good things that you have built will be so much more important to you that GuruT won't matter any more. I know that will happen BB.

And you can tell me to shut up anytime you want BB.

HUGS,

Liese

BB, I know I sound all polyannaish. Maybe that wellbutrin is finally kicking in. But I do know it is possible to get out of that pain cycle. You just can't do it by yourself. (Unfortunately ... trust me, I've tried!!!) It will and it can happen for you.

((Beebs)) - I am going through the same stuff with the terminator - youngT - still having lots of trauma related thoughts and attachment issues with her - and yet I am with another T - who is better for me and trained i BPD, trauma, attachment etc - and I am 'supposed' to attach to her. Here I am - a person with attachment injury and rejection issues and the T I was deeply attached to rejected me - oh that hurts on so many front.

I understand your inner turmoil about this, but i can't offer anymore than what everyone before me has said. We just have to keep talking until the pain of the trauma subsides to a bearable and understandable amount and then we can start to get past it.

It is important to keep talking even when we think we are flogging that dead horse.

Thank you so much, Yaku, Liese, and SD...I wrote a reply to you guys, but I posted it and it disappeared! yarg! Now I am too tired to try to rewrite it, and must off to bed...talk to you soon,

Love,

BB

Yaku I wanted to thank you for providing some different options...now can you please provide me with a normal set of emotional responses that will accept what you are saying?

Lise you are no pollyannaish- and you will not be told to shut up, either! I know that one day it won't hurt so much, but my problem is really that right now I am struggling to stay afloat in my newfound releif from the all-consuming depression I was in for so many years. I'm just scared that I am going to end up back in there again, and...I don't know if I should process my feelings about Guru T or shut it away like I was when I was feeling better! kwim?

Somedays, I read your story and I know how much you were hurt- thank you for the invitation to keep talking because I really do feel like "it's over, get on with it, BB, quit focusing on it!" I am not sure which way to go with this. I appreciate TN's suggestion to keep processing it with Cowboy, but- it just feels weird, like- going to therapy to get over my therapy. This is exactly what I was afraid was going to happen. I can't really classify my termination as a trauma since I'm the one who did it- and I just woke up one day and decided that it was ridiculous to keep paying so much money for something that making me less functional. So I just up and sent him an email saying...so why am I having such a hard time getting over it?

Lately it's been getting obsessive again. Ever since I sent the "officially terming" email, I cannot stop thinking about Guru T! I feel like I'd give just about anything to know that he doesn't blame me, and doesn't hate me for calling him out on so many things that may or may not have been true, but might have just been how I experienced him for some reason. I miss his gentle face. I miss when he smiled at me. He felt like my dad. I felt so little with him. I miss my feelings. I had feelings when I was with him.

I have no appointment with cowboy this week, since he had no opening for the evening he works and I couldn't find childcare, so I had to cancel our afternoon appointment that was supposed to be today. I'll see him next week, but then the week after that I have something I'm committed to doing, so unless we can find an opening, I'll have to cancel that week, too. Then I'm afraid, that he will "cut me off" because I wasn't there two sessions, and he won't be willing to keep booking those evening appointments 5 weeks out for me anymore. And at that point, I will develop some kind of needy and clingy mentality and will stop being able to talk to him.

quote:

Yaku I wanted to thank you for providing some different options...now can you please provide me with a normal set of emotional responses that will accept what you are saying?

When I am able to achieve this for myself, I will gladly split it with you. If I could have a "normal set of emotional responses" even half of the time, that would really be enough for me! You could have the other half.

Edited to remove a question that I see you've already considered elsewhere on the forum, whether to try to get closure.

Cowboy definitely won't term you or stop wanting to help you get the sessions you need just because of two schedule conflicts. He is a guy who has to schedule things all the time, constantly. I find that my T understands schedule conflicts and such challenges better than most people as a result of his work. And, I have a feeling that should you become clingy, Cowboy would definitely be able to handle it. Did you read that article on dependency that TN posted (and Liese has referenced)? I found it really good.

quote:

right now I am struggling to stay afloat in my newfound releif from the all-consuming depression I was in for so many years. I'm just scared that I am going to end up back in there again,

Beebs,

I think that this is a very common feeling for those of us that became accustomed to living in pain and waiting for the other shoe to drop. It IS going to feel weird to you to not have that depression and that constant pain. Of course you are worried that you will go back there, but it doesn't mean that you will. Can you try to frame that as a feeling from the past? In the past (I'm guessing) that you often waited for the other shoe to drop during moments of peace or relief so that feeling is going to be really familiar to you but it doesn't mean that it applies now. If you can accept where you are at right now and lean into the calm that you have been feeling without judging where you are it might help with the worry about where you might end up.

quote:

it's just so frustrating because I feel like if I reject him as "bad T who messed up" then I reject the "me" he was able to find inside of me, too.

Can you name the things that you gained from therapy with him? For example, during this major rupture with my T I have tried really hard to find the things that I've gained in therapy with her that I get to take with me even if our relationship doesn't work out. I learned how to cry again and that it was okay. I can still do that even if she isn't with me. I learned how to let some of my needs be known and give those a voice. I can take that with me. You see what I mean? So I know it feels like if you reject him that you are rejecting the you that he found inside you, but really it was YOU that found these things inside yourself with his help. You worked hard for these things and earned them and they are yours to keep independent of your ongoing real time connection with your T. The relationship doesn't have to end just because the sessions have ended. If you still have positive feelings for him that's okay. If there are things that he used to say that helped you and you can still hear that voice then you get to keep that too. Sometimes it doesn't have to be that one person or the other is "bad or wrong". It usually isn't that black and white, but I sometimes I think certain relationships are meant for a season and that often when we've learned all that we can from that relationship it can be helpful to move forward. It doesn't mean it's not painful though.

quote:

He felt like my dad. I felt so little with him. I miss my feelings. I had feelings when I was with him.

This might be a good area to focus on with Cowboy T as it relates to what you might be missing with Guru T. Do you know what it was about him that felt like your Dad? I think this is a great area to explore when you are ready.

I also don't think that Cowboy T is going to terminate you or hold any scheduling conflicts against you. I think it's okay to tell him that while there are conflicts you are still committed to the work with him and that hopefully soon your schedules will work out.

I'm sorry it's so hard sweetie. It will get better.

quote:

If you can accept where you are at right now and lean into the calm that you have been feeling without judging where you are it might help with the worry about where you might end up.

This is such good advice, STRMS. I hope so much that I will follow it, because- it really *is* the answer! Of course..I should try to just "be" rather than waiting for the other shoe to drop...which I am anxiously doing. Predicting...waiting for. Because, anytime in my life that I did start to feel better (T diagnosed dysthymic disorder for insurance purposes) I would inevitably drop again. the only other time I felt better was for a short period of time on AD's, but they didn't work for long, and I am scared that the same will happen again.
Your reply really helped me...I keep saying to my H..."at least I have *this* time...it is better than nothing." So I am trying to enjoy it without the waiting for the drop.

Yaku...thank you so much for your reassurances, re: Cowboy. I hope you are right! Your response really helped.

much love,

BB

BB,

Just wanted to say that although I know it is painful, I think you did the right thing in officially terming with guruT. You weren't getting what you needed from him and it was painful to keep trying. I get that. And I respect you tremendously for pulling the plug because ultimately that is what is best for you.

Hugs to you in the meantime. I know it will take time to heal.

Wow, thank you so much for your sincere words, LG, they really helped me. You have a nice way of putting things in a way that somehow helps me to accept better. I really appreciate it.

Hugs to you, too!

(((LG))))

BB