she replied offering me a termination session. i think it would be good for me to go. closure. any words of advise?? jill
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Hmmm, Obligatory termination session?
Mine didn't go so well with evil-T. Hmm. Lemme think about what could've been helpfuler and write some more later. When will it be? Oh and how long will it be? Mine did offer a 2 hour last session, I guess just in case. And I was also her last session of the day, also just in case.
Did you have official term sessions with Ts 1 & 2?
Mine didn't go so well with evil-T. Hmm. Lemme think about what could've been helpfuler and write some more later. When will it be? Oh and how long will it be? Mine did offer a 2 hour last session, I guess just in case. And I was also her last session of the day, also just in case.
Did you have official term sessions with Ts 1 & 2?
forlorn, t1 and i talked about it and i told him i needed to find more in therapy than he was able to help me with, he understood, i think he did his best and said he is always there if i need him...he displayed all the tools he had, and so i carried, happily, on. t2 fell asleep and i bolted. t3, i dunno, i think she overreacted, and showed that she has no conflict resolution skills and cannot admit human error. i would say arrogant, but, really, i think she is well aware of how incapable she is in conflict resolution and at handling, even a five year old's anger. she is smart enough to know 'she can talk the talk, but she can't walk the walk'. so here, i dunno, but the child and adult in me know they can stand up to her, and will feel better for having done that. i don't expect her to admit fault, she is too mean spirited. i don't know what i want. i think just to shock her that i came is enough!!
and FOT, the 'sudden' dump, tough in person i am sure. i woulda passed out, i think. tough enough to get it over the email, but i do think God works in mysterious ways, and i already feel better just knowing i have the 'balls' to face her, and she didn't have the 'balls' to handle a five year old's anger....seems she has pretty delicate issues herself.
i welcome more ideas, as at this point i can think of nothing to say, only my presence standing up to her. (b*T*H)
and FOT, the 'sudden' dump, tough in person i am sure. i woulda passed out, i think. tough enough to get it over the email, but i do think God works in mysterious ways, and i already feel better just knowing i have the 'balls' to face her, and she didn't have the 'balls' to handle a five year old's anger....seems she has pretty delicate issues herself.
i welcome more ideas, as at this point i can think of nothing to say, only my presence standing up to her. (b*T*H)
First, I think that you should do whatever you feel is best.
I think if I have any concerns about this, it is that right now you are feeling strong and certain that she was in the wrong. I don’t want her to try to convince or manipulate you into thinking that she was in the right. I’m also concerned that she might say something hurtful or insensitive regarding you maybe being a difficult client for her. Of course, she might be completely professional about it, but she has shown with her email that she is capable of behaving very unprofessionally.
Just a couple things to think about.
I think if I have any concerns about this, it is that right now you are feeling strong and certain that she was in the wrong. I don’t want her to try to convince or manipulate you into thinking that she was in the right. I’m also concerned that she might say something hurtful or insensitive regarding you maybe being a difficult client for her. Of course, she might be completely professional about it, but she has shown with her email that she is capable of behaving very unprofessionally.
Just a couple things to think about.
Ok I'm back. (pesky job wanted me to actually work instead of surf the net. what's that about?)
So I'll talk a teeny smidge about me so you know where my train of thought is...
At term session with evil-T, I asked (beforehand) for copies of all the notes she wrote during session. (not sure if yours wrote) And she insisted we go through them together instead of me taking them and bolting.
It was fulfilling and disturbing to look back at that time we spent and see what she "thought" of me or her interpretations of what I said. (and also how many question marks she wrote in the margins when I said something she didn't "get") She was horrible, labeled me, and couldn't handle my transference. Dumped me via voicemail, then offered a few weaning sessions only after I agreed to comply to her standards (ugh me).
So in the end, she removed the labels, and even offered me the hug I waited 7 months for. But I did not accept it and left her standing with her arms outstretched. Now I wish I had, just to know, but glad I didn't (pride??)
Anyway....
Back to you...
I think closure is good. This is your chance to ask questions and ask for anything. The worst is if she (as MacLove said) tries to push it on you and put the whole thing in your lap as a difficult patient (which you AREN'T). Or she doesn't answer them.
You can let it out; the anger she couldn't handle.
I do worry that she will not have the capacity to acknowledge her unprofessional and harmful role. Even if she felt you weren't a good match, termination sessions should be done in stages and not as an afterthought to a counter-transference email response on her part.
I do think you should discuss the reason that you're being terminated is because she performed her role incompetently and risked your psychological safety. But she may claim that continuing with you beyond the scope of her skill would have been an ethic violation though.
If she does somehow manage to regain a professional attitude then perhaps you can have a productive discussion of assessing your strengths and weaknesses. And think about what you want to plan for with a new therapist moving forward.
I guess the one thing I would've wanted from evil-T at term but didn't get was an apology. A sincere apology for my pain and stress of dealing with that crap. But she was too busy trying to cover her asterisk to say anything that could be used against her.
So I'll talk a teeny smidge about me so you know where my train of thought is...
At term session with evil-T, I asked (beforehand) for copies of all the notes she wrote during session. (not sure if yours wrote) And she insisted we go through them together instead of me taking them and bolting.
It was fulfilling and disturbing to look back at that time we spent and see what she "thought" of me or her interpretations of what I said. (and also how many question marks she wrote in the margins when I said something she didn't "get") She was horrible, labeled me, and couldn't handle my transference. Dumped me via voicemail, then offered a few weaning sessions only after I agreed to comply to her standards (ugh me).
So in the end, she removed the labels, and even offered me the hug I waited 7 months for. But I did not accept it and left her standing with her arms outstretched. Now I wish I had, just to know, but glad I didn't (pride??)
Anyway....
Back to you...
I think closure is good. This is your chance to ask questions and ask for anything. The worst is if she (as MacLove said) tries to push it on you and put the whole thing in your lap as a difficult patient (which you AREN'T). Or she doesn't answer them.
You can let it out; the anger she couldn't handle.
I do worry that she will not have the capacity to acknowledge her unprofessional and harmful role. Even if she felt you weren't a good match, termination sessions should be done in stages and not as an afterthought to a counter-transference email response on her part.
I do think you should discuss the reason that you're being terminated is because she performed her role incompetently and risked your psychological safety. But she may claim that continuing with you beyond the scope of her skill would have been an ethic violation though.
If she does somehow manage to regain a professional attitude then perhaps you can have a productive discussion of assessing your strengths and weaknesses. And think about what you want to plan for with a new therapist moving forward.
I guess the one thing I would've wanted from evil-T at term but didn't get was an apology. A sincere apology for my pain and stress of dealing with that crap. But she was too busy trying to cover her asterisk to say anything that could be used against her.
Hi Jill,
There are some similarities between your termination and mine, but also some differences, so I’m not sure if this will apply. But FWIW here it is. If I could do it over, I would still show up to my termination session, but I would not have gone alone. I would have brought my husband along as moral support so I could have said what I knew needed to be said. And I would have brought notes so I wouldn’t forget the things I felt I needed to say.
Like you, my termination was sudden, and due to a “misunderstanding” between my T and I. Also like you, I was not expecting to change his mind, but I had the idea he was expecting me to be too scared to show up, so I wanted to go just to show him I wasn’t afraid, kind of “standing up” to him, showing him and the other T’s that I had nothing to hide, as a way to “prove” that I knew I had done nothing wrong. (When pressed I do have kind of a defiant streak
)
Some possible differences between us: I WAS extremely afraid, whereas you seem very confident (and I’m glad that is the case, you have every reason to be). I saw my T for eight months and had put a LOT of work into it, it was my first real experience with therapy, so I was very emotionally invested/attached. Because of this, I still held out “hope” that I really had missed something, that there would be some way to end well, that he would offer some reasonable explanation for the disruption, that the misunderstanding would be somewhat resolved, and that he would show in some way that he cared about me. I was willing to accept the transfer under those circumstances and REALLY wanted to end on a positive note if at all possible. I wanted to preserve the connection I thought we had.
But that is definitely NOT what happened. Between him and the new T they had chosen for me, my perceptions of what had happened, and what I was looking for in therapy, were scoffed at, discounted, and dismissed. My former T left out a lot of details and misrepresented others, in my opinion. He was clearly pissed and made a few subtle “jabs” at me regarding things we had talked about, nothing the new T would have picked up on, but I sure did, and he knew it.
I went in knowing what I wanted to say, but between the two of them, they made no room for my thoughts or feelings. So faced with this, due to the emotional attachment I just went kind of numb with shock and couldn’t stand up for myself at all. It’s like the hope I still had made me vulnerable to being hurt that one last time. So I really wish I had had my husband and my notes there as backup.
But it doesn’t sound like you have that kind of hope, you don’t sound vulnerable to being hurt…you sound like you know exactly what is going on and what you want to say. I hope that you get to speak your truth calmly and clearly, no matter how much resistance you encounter. Forlorn made several good points, one of which is that a T who behaved badly with a patient will probably not be able to admit it, for the very same reasons they behaved badly in the first place. But you never know, even if it seems like what you are saying isn’t getting through to her, it will still stay with her, and maybe somewhere down the road it will “click” and make a difference. But you stand to gain confidence in yourself for speaking up, no matter what she says.
One more thing…with every T I’ve tried, I’ve learned anywhere from a little to a LOT more about myself, and what I was looking for in therapy, and how to ask for what I wanted/needed. And that accomplishes something too, because so many of the problems I’m going to therapy for turn out to be at least partly due to my difficulty in doing just that. So even the “failed” therapy attempts have taught me a lot. That last horrible experience was followed by being led to who I believe are two of the finest T’s around. 
And I’m almost afraid to say this, maybe it is premature, but…the “things” I started therapy for really do seem to be finally “changing” for the better, I am seeing tangible changes these past few weeks. And when I started out, I really did not think it was possible to change these things, it’s just that there were no other plausible options. (On kind of a humorous note, it makes me think of the children’s game “Going on a Bear Hunt”. At every obstacle, they say “Can’t go over it, can’t go under it, gotta go THROUGH it!” That is what I seemed to be faced with…there was nowhere to go but forward, and I couldn’t go forward without therapy.) So I just want to encourage you by saying there ARE T’s out there who are abundantly capable of “handling” the kind of therapy work you are looking for, so I’m really glad to see you aren’t giving up. Good luck to you Jill, and keep us posted! 
Hugs,
SG
There are some similarities between your termination and mine, but also some differences, so I’m not sure if this will apply. But FWIW here it is. If I could do it over, I would still show up to my termination session, but I would not have gone alone. I would have brought my husband along as moral support so I could have said what I knew needed to be said. And I would have brought notes so I wouldn’t forget the things I felt I needed to say.
Like you, my termination was sudden, and due to a “misunderstanding” between my T and I. Also like you, I was not expecting to change his mind, but I had the idea he was expecting me to be too scared to show up, so I wanted to go just to show him I wasn’t afraid, kind of “standing up” to him, showing him and the other T’s that I had nothing to hide, as a way to “prove” that I knew I had done nothing wrong. (When pressed I do have kind of a defiant streak
)Some possible differences between us: I WAS extremely afraid, whereas you seem very confident (and I’m glad that is the case, you have every reason to be). I saw my T for eight months and had put a LOT of work into it, it was my first real experience with therapy, so I was very emotionally invested/attached. Because of this, I still held out “hope” that I really had missed something, that there would be some way to end well, that he would offer some reasonable explanation for the disruption, that the misunderstanding would be somewhat resolved, and that he would show in some way that he cared about me. I was willing to accept the transfer under those circumstances and REALLY wanted to end on a positive note if at all possible. I wanted to preserve the connection I thought we had.
But that is definitely NOT what happened. Between him and the new T they had chosen for me, my perceptions of what had happened, and what I was looking for in therapy, were scoffed at, discounted, and dismissed. My former T left out a lot of details and misrepresented others, in my opinion. He was clearly pissed and made a few subtle “jabs” at me regarding things we had talked about, nothing the new T would have picked up on, but I sure did, and he knew it.
I went in knowing what I wanted to say, but between the two of them, they made no room for my thoughts or feelings. So faced with this, due to the emotional attachment I just went kind of numb with shock and couldn’t stand up for myself at all. It’s like the hope I still had made me vulnerable to being hurt that one last time. So I really wish I had had my husband and my notes there as backup.But it doesn’t sound like you have that kind of hope, you don’t sound vulnerable to being hurt…you sound like you know exactly what is going on and what you want to say. I hope that you get to speak your truth calmly and clearly, no matter how much resistance you encounter. Forlorn made several good points, one of which is that a T who behaved badly with a patient will probably not be able to admit it, for the very same reasons they behaved badly in the first place. But you never know, even if it seems like what you are saying isn’t getting through to her, it will still stay with her, and maybe somewhere down the road it will “click” and make a difference. But you stand to gain confidence in yourself for speaking up, no matter what she says.
One more thing…with every T I’ve tried, I’ve learned anywhere from a little to a LOT more about myself, and what I was looking for in therapy, and how to ask for what I wanted/needed. And that accomplishes something too, because so many of the problems I’m going to therapy for turn out to be at least partly due to my difficulty in doing just that. So even the “failed” therapy attempts have taught me a lot. That last horrible experience was followed by being led to who I believe are two of the finest T’s around.
And I’m almost afraid to say this, maybe it is premature, but…the “things” I started therapy for really do seem to be finally “changing” for the better, I am seeing tangible changes these past few weeks. And when I started out, I really did not think it was possible to change these things, it’s just that there were no other plausible options. (On kind of a humorous note, it makes me think of the children’s game “Going on a Bear Hunt”. At every obstacle, they say “Can’t go over it, can’t go under it, gotta go THROUGH it!” That is what I seemed to be faced with…there was nowhere to go but forward, and I couldn’t go forward without therapy.) So I just want to encourage you by saying there ARE T’s out there who are abundantly capable of “handling” the kind of therapy work you are looking for, so I’m really glad to see you aren’t giving up. Good luck to you Jill, and keep us posted! Hugs,
SG
forlorn, aw, sis, i think you are right, i think she will continue to be unprofessional and will try to hurt me. i will not say much, i presume, but will watch like a fly on the wall and it will just confirm what i have come to find out about her....she is unprofessional and not worthy of my psyche. kind of like when i finally took the blinders off about my family. i 'got' it once i got out of the forest.
maclove, she will say i am difficult, to which my reply would be, 'too difficult, for YOU!!' probably not followed by bitch, but i reserve the right to decide that later!!
and SG, funny, i reallly don't have much to say, just want to hear her read me what she is, by law, supposed to close with. my hubby is out of town, i had thought about that, but actually, i am not afraid of her. i think my 'me' will feel best taking this step on my own. maybe some of that 'attachment' to needing someone to 'help' me can be addressed by being there, bravely, on my own, to face the beast. y'no??
i am so glad that you have found a t you like. i am starting to think of a man again. i knew this bitch wasn't trustworthy...i don't trust ALOT of women, altho i have many good girl friends...but she flunked some of my 'tests' of character and compassion....and kindof, well, not kind of, she BELITTLED her client from the previous week who was upset that her husband didn't buy her the barstools she wanted in santa fe...isn't that illegal to talk about clients?? i can see someone from years ago, but this gal was just in the week before.
i am hoping she doesn't smell, as i may have to point that out to her if she does.
anyway, kind of looking forward to it. and, i guess i learned something from her...i certainly have BLIND attachment issues, not to the person, just to the 'thing'...like an poor kid to a narcissistic mother....here i go again with that old tune!!!
i'll let you know, not til thursday...what is it about notes, too, they 'owe' you them?? jill
maclove, she will say i am difficult, to which my reply would be, 'too difficult, for YOU!!' probably not followed by bitch, but i reserve the right to decide that later!!
and SG, funny, i reallly don't have much to say, just want to hear her read me what she is, by law, supposed to close with. my hubby is out of town, i had thought about that, but actually, i am not afraid of her. i think my 'me' will feel best taking this step on my own. maybe some of that 'attachment' to needing someone to 'help' me can be addressed by being there, bravely, on my own, to face the beast. y'no??
i am so glad that you have found a t you like. i am starting to think of a man again. i knew this bitch wasn't trustworthy...i don't trust ALOT of women, altho i have many good girl friends...but she flunked some of my 'tests' of character and compassion....and kindof, well, not kind of, she BELITTLED her client from the previous week who was upset that her husband didn't buy her the barstools she wanted in santa fe...isn't that illegal to talk about clients?? i can see someone from years ago, but this gal was just in the week before.
i am hoping she doesn't smell, as i may have to point that out to her if she does.
anyway, kind of looking forward to it. and, i guess i learned something from her...i certainly have BLIND attachment issues, not to the person, just to the 'thing'...like an poor kid to a narcissistic mother....here i go again with that old tune!!!
i'll let you know, not til thursday...what is it about notes, too, they 'owe' you them?? jill
it went really badly. i am apparently really hard to work with. she lied a bit, but i think just doesn't want to work with me.
i hate the lying. it really disappoints me in humanity.
i hate that i am so f-ed up.
she thinks i need to work with a man, i think she is right. lots of transference stuff with mother issues. a part of me hates her, but a big part is so sad, as i just really fell in love with her in that therapist kind of way, and to be so rejected, hurts, really really bad.
such a familiar feeling, being rejected. i guess i create it myself. i don't know. i feel so totally abandoned by her. i know, and she knows, she handled this poorly, but, i shouldn't fall so hard for my t, and think they really care for me. i am a number, and if it gets too hard for them, i dunno, they just give up. but, apparently, i am really 'stuck', and i do hate the CBT stuff, and i know that annoyed her.
i don't know where to turn. she gave me some referrals. i am stuck, and she doesn't think i want to budge. really, i do, i am just deparately afraid.
it went really poorly, my husband rescheduled his trip and went with me, and i couldn't have done it otherwise.
i hate the lying she did. i guess, it is to be expected...everyone covers their ass to a certain extent. i told her though to NEVER DUMP AN ATTACHMENT CLIENT OVER THE EMAIL EVER AGAIN. maybe she'll be kinder to the next guy/gal...
onward.
a real broken heart on this side/sheer bliss i am sure on her side.
thanks for all yalls advise. i was very weak. handled it all horribly. it was a trainwreck, but i guess i learned to not give my love and trust so fast, just coz someone is nice to me. f! this attachment is really tough stuff. i feel f-ing hopeless and really depressed, and it hurts to know she is just glad to be done with me. a broken heart, again. jill
i hate the lying. it really disappoints me in humanity.
i hate that i am so f-ed up.
she thinks i need to work with a man, i think she is right. lots of transference stuff with mother issues. a part of me hates her, but a big part is so sad, as i just really fell in love with her in that therapist kind of way, and to be so rejected, hurts, really really bad.
such a familiar feeling, being rejected. i guess i create it myself. i don't know. i feel so totally abandoned by her. i know, and she knows, she handled this poorly, but, i shouldn't fall so hard for my t, and think they really care for me. i am a number, and if it gets too hard for them, i dunno, they just give up. but, apparently, i am really 'stuck', and i do hate the CBT stuff, and i know that annoyed her.
i don't know where to turn. she gave me some referrals. i am stuck, and she doesn't think i want to budge. really, i do, i am just deparately afraid.
it went really poorly, my husband rescheduled his trip and went with me, and i couldn't have done it otherwise.
i hate the lying she did. i guess, it is to be expected...everyone covers their ass to a certain extent. i told her though to NEVER DUMP AN ATTACHMENT CLIENT OVER THE EMAIL EVER AGAIN. maybe she'll be kinder to the next guy/gal...
onward.
a real broken heart on this side/sheer bliss i am sure on her side.
thanks for all yalls advise. i was very weak. handled it all horribly. it was a trainwreck, but i guess i learned to not give my love and trust so fast, just coz someone is nice to me. f! this attachment is really tough stuff. i feel f-ing hopeless and really depressed, and it hurts to know she is just glad to be done with me. a broken heart, again. jill
pv, she tried to paint it all as my fault, i wouldn't work with her, which is bullshit. i noticed that she backed way down in her dx she released me with. i have notes of what she had said earlier, of course dropping the attachment stuff. i dunno, women. she at first wouldn't even talk to me in front of my husband. she needs to be brought to her board, but i am so distraught, i don't think i have it in me. no encouragement, just more shame. toxic therapist.
(((((jill)))))
I'm SO sorry that your termination session didn't go well. I know how disappointed and heartbroken you must be feeling right now. This T sounds awful, and like she really did not know how to handle attachment issues at all. My T isn't so great with them either, and I'm really trying to keep them under control so as not to scare her off with them because I'm afraid of the same thing happening to me as has happened to you. I'm so so sorry you've had to go through this pain. Please don't take it on yourself as being your fault because you're "f'ed" up. You're not. You have some really deep needs that weren't met and your heart aches because of that. Unfortunately some therapists just don't know how to handle us and yes, they have their own issues that they need to work on. This last T sounds like she has quite a few things she needs to work through if she ever wants to be able to help attachment patients in the future. I'm truly sorry that she failed you, Jill. Please take good care of yourself and keep posting to us about how you're feeling. Your feelings about all this deserve to be heard.
MTF
I'm SO sorry that your termination session didn't go well. I know how disappointed and heartbroken you must be feeling right now. This T sounds awful, and like she really did not know how to handle attachment issues at all.
My T isn't so great with them either, and I'm really trying to keep them under control so as not to scare her off with them because I'm afraid of the same thing happening to me as has happened to you. I'm so so sorry you've had to go through this pain. Please don't take it on yourself as being your fault because you're "f'ed" up. You're not. You have some really deep needs that weren't met and your heart aches because of that. Unfortunately some therapists just don't know how to handle us and yes, they have their own issues that they need to work on. This last T sounds like she has quite a few things she needs to work through if she ever wants to be able to help attachment patients in the future. I'm truly sorry that she failed you, Jill. Please take good care of yourself and keep posting to us about how you're feeling. Your feelings about all this deserve to be heard.MTF
i am still in heartsick shock and rage, i'll surface soon, but the lying was so blatant, i truly don't know how she lives with herself. i did take a stab at her on behalf of all of us 'hurting folks' to NEVER terminate another patient over the email. she knows the truth.
uv, by backing down her dx, i mean she just put 'general anxiety' type stuff so that legally, if it came to that, her mode of termination wouldn't look so cruel, negating the borderline/attachment stuff she told me in session. she is covering her fat ass, and she had better. i happen to have a very keen memory and make amazing notes after sessions. she will live to regret her lack of professionalism, no one can live like that without being eaten up inside. i hope i have the same outcome, that i can look back and see it as a good thing, that is true, that she was not good for me, i am just so afraid to trust another therapist. it helps so much for you to share your happy ending, thanks, uv.
mtf, you put it well, this IS more about her issues than mine, she just doesn't know her stuff, lots of talk and not much truth behind her big talking. good luck keeping your attachment feelings rounded up. i keep trying to remind myself to love the PROCESS, not the THERAPIST, but for those of us with attachment needs, it is hard not to. even IF they treat us wrong....that is in our wiring.
she had me so thoroughly convinced i was a horrible patient that i replied to her email after the meeting (sending me a 'crisis hot line' number...that's how bad the session was) "that i was sorry i was so difficult and i know she meant no harm...." can you BELIEVE what a f-ing MORON i am??? damn it!! i can't quit apologizing for OTHER PEOPLE'S ERRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hope i see her by the side of the road one day with a flat tire and slow down just enough to give her hope of help, then, she sees that it is ME and i leave her reaching for the door handle, leaning forward, and breathing in the exhaust of my engine!! oh, what i would be without an active fantasy life!!!
but, there i was, f-ing apologizing for her bad treatment....'general anxiety disorder' ...MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
will i ever learn?????????????????????????????
uv, by backing down her dx, i mean she just put 'general anxiety' type stuff so that legally, if it came to that, her mode of termination wouldn't look so cruel, negating the borderline/attachment stuff she told me in session. she is covering her fat ass, and she had better. i happen to have a very keen memory and make amazing notes after sessions. she will live to regret her lack of professionalism, no one can live like that without being eaten up inside. i hope i have the same outcome, that i can look back and see it as a good thing, that is true, that she was not good for me, i am just so afraid to trust another therapist. it helps so much for you to share your happy ending, thanks, uv.
mtf, you put it well, this IS more about her issues than mine, she just doesn't know her stuff, lots of talk and not much truth behind her big talking. good luck keeping your attachment feelings rounded up. i keep trying to remind myself to love the PROCESS, not the THERAPIST, but for those of us with attachment needs, it is hard not to. even IF they treat us wrong....that is in our wiring.
she had me so thoroughly convinced i was a horrible patient that i replied to her email after the meeting (sending me a 'crisis hot line' number...that's how bad the session was) "that i was sorry i was so difficult and i know she meant no harm...." can you BELIEVE what a f-ing MORON i am??? damn it!! i can't quit apologizing for OTHER PEOPLE'S ERRORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hope i see her by the side of the road one day with a flat tire and slow down just enough to give her hope of help, then, she sees that it is ME and i leave her reaching for the door handle, leaning forward, and breathing in the exhaust of my engine!! oh, what i would be without an active fantasy life!!!
but, there i was, f-ing apologizing for her bad treatment....'general anxiety disorder' ...MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
will i ever learn?????????????????????????????
((((((Jill))))))
You have every right to feel heartsick and full of rage. I'm just really glad you had your husband there for support, and also that you're coming here and talking about it to get support here, too. There is no way I would have made it through my bad termination without the support here. It makes me wonder, how do people get through terminations like this when they don't realize it wasn't their fault...when they don't have someplace like this to come to. I found the rage part very difficult...I turned most of it in toward myself. You are fighting that, too, and I'm sorry...but it also sounds like you are able to see her part in it, and that's a very good thing, I think that will help! And I totally believe you will come through this okay.
As for the "T" who treated you so badly...good riddance. The phrase "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest her armpits" comes to mind. Just wanted to contribute a little something to your flat tire scenario.
UV, I was horrified to read how your T terminated you. 
PG used the term "heartless jerk" and I'd like to begin with that, but I'd add a few more "colorful" terms to that description. How "kind" of him not to charge you for all the pain he caused you. 
Good for you for speaking up and saying it wasn't appropriate for him to handle it the way he did, that was very brave of you. It is truly frightening to think that his "letting you come in" statement was "compassionate" compared to everything else. My former T also seemed to see only the potential bads in me...I know how that feels so well! I felt like I had to keep "proving" I was going to be "good" so he'd keep "treating" me. Yeah, treating me badly. I am so grateful to have found the two T's I have now. They are SO different and so kind and full of grace. MUCH more worth my time and money!!! I am so glad to hear you've found a T like that, too.
Good for you, PG, for terminating the T who talked so much, and so negatively, about his other patients. My former T did that all the time, too, and I also wondered what kind of story I was to others, or if I even made whatever "cut" he uses. Not that I give a rip anymore. It just makes me wonder how they can be so oblivious to what they are doing. How can they not realize it makes us wonder what they are saying about us? It's such an instant trust buster. I am so glad to know you found a better T, too.
Reading about all of this, I wish there was a requirement that every T or P in training had to go through therapy. Isn't it shocking to know that there are training programs that DON'T require it? Now I'M the one shivering and shuddering. But in addition, I wish there was a way to enact a "bad" termination with each one, so they would know what it feels like. To either give them the compassion to never do this to a patient...or to drive them out of a field they have no business being in.
Hugs all around. 
SG
You have every right to feel heartsick and full of rage.
I'm just really glad you had your husband there for support, and also that you're coming here and talking about it to get support here, too. There is no way I would have made it through my bad termination without the support here. It makes me wonder, how do people get through terminations like this when they don't realize it wasn't their fault...when they don't have someplace like this to come to. I found the rage part very difficult...I turned most of it in toward myself. You are fighting that, too, and I'm sorry...but it also sounds like you are able to see her part in it, and that's a very good thing, I think that will help! And I totally believe you will come through this okay.As for the "T" who treated you so badly...good riddance. The phrase "may the fleas of a thousand camels infest her armpits" comes to mind. Just wanted to contribute a little something to your flat tire scenario.
UV, I was horrified to read how your T terminated you.
PG used the term "heartless jerk" and I'd like to begin with that, but I'd add a few more "colorful" terms to that description. How "kind" of him not to charge you for all the pain he caused you. Good for you for speaking up and saying it wasn't appropriate for him to handle it the way he did, that was very brave of you. It is truly frightening to think that his "letting you come in" statement was "compassionate" compared to everything else. My former T also seemed to see only the potential bads in me...I know how that feels so well! I felt like I had to keep "proving" I was going to be "good" so he'd keep "treating" me. Yeah, treating me badly. I am so grateful to have found the two T's I have now. They are SO different and so kind and full of grace. MUCH more worth my time and money!!! I am so glad to hear you've found a T like that, too. Good for you, PG, for terminating the T who talked so much, and so negatively, about his other patients. My former T did that all the time, too, and I also wondered what kind of story I was to others, or if I even made whatever "cut" he uses. Not that I give a rip anymore.
It just makes me wonder how they can be so oblivious to what they are doing. How can they not realize it makes us wonder what they are saying about us? It's such an instant trust buster. I am so glad to know you found a better T, too. Reading about all of this, I wish there was a requirement that every T or P in training had to go through therapy. Isn't it shocking to know that there are training programs that DON'T require it? Now I'M the one shivering and shuddering.
But in addition, I wish there was a way to enact a "bad" termination with each one, so they would know what it feels like. To either give them the compassion to never do this to a patient...or to drive them out of a field they have no business being in.Hugs all around.
SG
draggers, thanks for adding some dirt to her face!! yes, a bath, too. she is clever and manipulative, and yes, had me convinced i was a moron upon leaving and reading her revised charts and diagnosis. thanks for your support to the contrary!
sg, this is exactly what needs to happen:
problem, i am in such bad shape to take appropriate action, the govt. says i have five years, so, that helps.
i am better, doubling up on all my meds, and have been since this, not driving much. i dunno, she has no conscious. or deoderant! jill
sg, this is exactly what needs to happen:
quote:But in addition, I wish there was a way to enact a "bad" termination with each one, so they would know what it feels like. To either give them the compassion to never do this to a patient...or to drive them out of a field they have no business being in.
problem, i am in such bad shape to take appropriate action, the govt. says i have five years, so, that helps.
i am better, doubling up on all my meds, and have been since this, not driving much. i dunno, she has no conscious. or deoderant! jill
Oh ((((((((Jill))))))))
I can't really write much now, it sucks cause I have so much to say but so little time. I'll post something more meaningful once I'm back again.
I am sorry you're hurting. And yes I hate the cover their asses bit too.
She Super-Sucks!
Love ya sis, hang in there!
I can't really write much now, it sucks cause I have so much to say but so little time. I'll post something more meaningful once I'm back again.
I am sorry you're hurting. And yes I hate the cover their asses bit too.
She Super-Sucks!
Love ya sis, hang in there!
I'm glad your husband was able to go with you. I feared she would remain a b**** til the very end.
*sigh* I'm just going to take a quick moment to lament and wonder if there are any good authority figures at all in this world. Any? Somewhere? Bad parents, bad teachers, bad Ts, mean older siblings, mean bosses, shady sales characters.... grrrr I'm just so overwhelmed with the abuse of authority and lack of human kindness in all these type of people. Maybe I've just had the misfortune of encountering these people and not Everyone is this way. *sigh*
Imo you were nowhere near weak Sis. Wow even going to the last session was strong. You did it! She sucked, but at least you faced her and all her suckiness one last time.
But I totally understand the attachment crap. I have not yet figured out how not to get attached and I subsequently am hurt each and every time the relationship ends harshly. Meanwhile that person always seems to come out on the other end unscathed. Whereas I look like I've been hit with a tar truck and rolled in a cactus field with bear traps and piranhas.
I know your heart is broken sweet jill. I am so truly sorry. I don't understand how we here in the cafe can be so empathetic and kind and supportive. Some of the best examples of shining inspiring compassionate people are here. And we're all dealing with our crap! But can still manage not only basic human decency, but also express words of courage, strength, understanding , and unity.
And those people who are most responsible for our emotional health - these Ts who take some type of moral oath to "help people", they sometimes seem to be most ill-equipped people to work with others.
How can that be??? Sometimes I think Therapist Licensing should be granted, NOT according to how much school or education they have, but according to their ability to consistently work with empathy for EVERYONE. No picking and choosing. (methinks we wouldn't have very many Ts in this world then though)
My ex-T also fudged my diagnosis and said she did so as some sort of protection for me. So that I wouldn't forever be labeled by my insurance company and at risk for some type of future discrimination. But I knew it was to cover herself too. In fact when I read through her session notes she didn't write some of the heavier stuff I told her about. And she mention NOTHING about the transference I had for her. Yeah, cause THAT wasn't the reason she termd me. (sarcasm)
No, she has no conscious. She was far too concerned with her reputation and the politics of keeping her career "intact" than the damage she did to you.
Please don't call yourself a moron Sis. She was evil and has years and years of experience manipulating people and their emotional structure. If she wasn't able to get you to do what she wanted (which was take ALL the blame) then she wouldn't be a manipulative B****, but she is. Yeah, my ex-T used LOTS of "YOU" statements in telling me how I was so difficult and I argued and I didn't want to talk about the topics she suggested and I keep getting off track and refusing to go along with her awesome advice. Uh ... yeah ... cause she was a beeetch and sucked. Glad I didn't "go along" with her.
I am so sorry this turned out this way for you. But I don't think I can stress enough that it was nothing you did. NOTHING Jill ok. I am currently working on a designing a pill that prevents us from being attached to our Ts, but since I'm not a scientist and I'm working with a bag of Skittles, this could take a while.
Anyway, the little trickster that I am would've taken her a going away present. Wrapped nicely with a bow. Yep you guessed it....Lady SpeedStick!!!
*sigh* I'm just going to take a quick moment to lament and wonder if there are any good authority figures at all in this world. Any? Somewhere? Bad parents, bad teachers, bad Ts, mean older siblings, mean bosses, shady sales characters.... grrrr I'm just so overwhelmed with the abuse of authority and lack of human kindness in all these type of people. Maybe I've just had the misfortune of encountering these people and not Everyone is this way. *sigh*
Imo you were nowhere near weak Sis. Wow even going to the last session was strong. You did it! She sucked, but at least you faced her and all her suckiness one last time.
But I totally understand the attachment crap. I have not yet figured out how not to get attached and I subsequently am hurt each and every time the relationship ends harshly. Meanwhile that person always seems to come out on the other end unscathed. Whereas I look like I've been hit with a tar truck and rolled in a cactus field with bear traps and piranhas.
I know your heart is broken sweet jill. I am so truly sorry. I don't understand how we here in the cafe can be so empathetic and kind and supportive. Some of the best examples of shining inspiring compassionate people are here. And we're all dealing with our crap! But can still manage not only basic human decency, but also express words of courage, strength, understanding , and unity.
And those people who are most responsible for our emotional health - these Ts who take some type of moral oath to "help people", they sometimes seem to be most ill-equipped people to work with others.
How can that be??? Sometimes I think Therapist Licensing should be granted, NOT according to how much school or education they have, but according to their ability to consistently work with empathy for EVERYONE. No picking and choosing. (methinks we wouldn't have very many Ts in this world then though)
My ex-T also fudged my diagnosis and said she did so as some sort of protection for me. So that I wouldn't forever be labeled by my insurance company and at risk for some type of future discrimination. But I knew it was to cover herself too. In fact when I read through her session notes she didn't write some of the heavier stuff I told her about. And she mention NOTHING about the transference I had for her. Yeah, cause THAT wasn't the reason she termd me. (sarcasm)
No, she has no conscious. She was far too concerned with her reputation and the politics of keeping her career "intact" than the damage she did to you.
Please don't call yourself a moron Sis. She was evil and has years and years of experience manipulating people and their emotional structure. If she wasn't able to get you to do what she wanted (which was take ALL the blame) then she wouldn't be a manipulative B****, but she is. Yeah, my ex-T used LOTS of "YOU" statements in telling me how I was so difficult and I argued and I didn't want to talk about the topics she suggested and I keep getting off track and refusing to go along with her awesome advice. Uh ... yeah ... cause she was a beeetch and sucked. Glad I didn't "go along" with her.
I am so sorry this turned out this way for you. But I don't think I can stress enough that it was nothing you did. NOTHING Jill ok. I am currently working on a designing a pill that prevents us from being attached to our Ts, but since I'm not a scientist and I'm working with a bag of Skittles, this could take a while.
Anyway, the little trickster that I am would've taken her a going away present. Wrapped nicely with a bow. Yep you guessed it....Lady SpeedStick!!!
oh forlorn, thanks for your support. the creepy thing is, this whole example, just tells me i am borderline. the dx she gave me in session...features and traits, but of course, it is not mentioned in the notes she gave me. which, were revised i am sure, as each session i was somewhat fixated on that diagnosis. no mention...revised notes. oh, how i can just smell a good lawyer once i get my feet under me.
she was so cruel. she SHOULD have her license removed.
i am too upset to write much now, but thanks for the one smile i have had today...but, i must say, lady speedstick wouldn't cut it....needs something 'made for a man'...perhaps even perscription strength....and a washing machine for those few poor blouses she wears every day.
ugh, she is wretched. and has no care for humanity.
thanks, sis. and $3000 down the tubes with her, only to get more trauma for my broken psyche.
she was so cruel. she SHOULD have her license removed.
i am too upset to write much now, but thanks for the one smile i have had today...but, i must say, lady speedstick wouldn't cut it....needs something 'made for a man'...perhaps even perscription strength....and a washing machine for those few poor blouses she wears every day.
ugh, she is wretched. and has no care for humanity.
thanks, sis. and $3000 down the tubes with her, only to get more trauma for my broken psyche.
""-Refusing to accept that therapists ever make mistakes and blaming the client for any distress the therapist has caused them ""
uv, this helps so much. thank you for the time and energy in this response. the one i selected is the one that feels the most painful. i don't know, i am totally broken, shaken, afraid no one will 'take' me once they see these borderline issues, that no one will go the distance, just like she said she was committed to doing.
i am a nightmare today, yesterday was better. physically shaking at times. afraid, and i don't really know what of, i am too afraid to try to find out what i am afraid of, if that makes sense.
i am so hurt, and a part of me just remembers the nice things she said to me, that she turned on. one time i remember her giving me very sharp advise about something (with regards to Dr. SLeepy)and i laughed and said 'man, i don't want to be on your bad side' and she agreed and said, 'no, you don't want to be on my bad side'...she scares me, although i know i did nothing wrong, other that not having it all together (that is why i am in therapy!) i am well aware she knows the position she is in, and the unethical way she has done me, and she knows i am a smart cookie, but i fear her being in my house when i come home, or appearing somewhere when i am out in public, and not that she would hit me or something, but that i just couldn't handle seeing her and would just melt into a little puddle of tears.
this is so hard, and i just appreciate that y'all care about me. thank you, all of you, for caring. jill
uv, this helps so much. thank you for the time and energy in this response. the one i selected is the one that feels the most painful. i don't know, i am totally broken, shaken, afraid no one will 'take' me once they see these borderline issues, that no one will go the distance, just like she said she was committed to doing.
i am a nightmare today, yesterday was better. physically shaking at times. afraid, and i don't really know what of, i am too afraid to try to find out what i am afraid of, if that makes sense.
i am so hurt, and a part of me just remembers the nice things she said to me, that she turned on. one time i remember her giving me very sharp advise about something (with regards to Dr. SLeepy)and i laughed and said 'man, i don't want to be on your bad side' and she agreed and said, 'no, you don't want to be on my bad side'...she scares me, although i know i did nothing wrong, other that not having it all together (that is why i am in therapy!) i am well aware she knows the position she is in, and the unethical way she has done me, and she knows i am a smart cookie, but i fear her being in my house when i come home, or appearing somewhere when i am out in public, and not that she would hit me or something, but that i just couldn't handle seeing her and would just melt into a little puddle of tears.
this is so hard, and i just appreciate that y'all care about me. thank you, all of you, for caring. jill
i've just been wondering what it would take for me to feel better about this termination.(sorry for being so self-indulgant) but, i just wish she could drop me a note and say that this did not end like she would have liked it to (i am not even asking for her to accept responsibility) but that she cared about me as a person, and that she sincerely wished me the best. and, not that i would take her up on it, i just couldn't, but to say that she would be there if i ever needed her. something like that that just shows human concern for me, even though it was a short period i had with her, i shared some really vulnerable moments, and i would like to know that i touched her in some way, and that she sees me as a human and not a 'problem'. then, i think, i could move on. and at least, have the last taste in my mouth of her as a kind one. but leaving with such bitter feelings is just hard to heal through, especially when i did nothing wrong (other than needing therapy!!). i don't have it in me to do anything legal with this, i know it would tear me up more than her, and the she said versus what i say...i'm the nut on the couch, so who is going to believe me anyway. and my notes are just that, my notes, and she has notes as well. i think i would just tear up my life even more with that. but, i sure hate injustice. thanks for your advise on this, whoever chimed in on that note. this is just my ocd acting up.
a hug, a human touch. something that respects me as a person, and just serves to assist my view of humanity rather than corrode it.
that is all it would take, just a token of kindness. and i really think i could let go. without this, i am just like that little girl crying in my closet that mommy was horribly mean to me and it was NOT fair. needless to say, my mother NEVER came and apologized...a really bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad day. jill
a hug, a human touch. something that respects me as a person, and just serves to assist my view of humanity rather than corrode it.
that is all it would take, just a token of kindness. and i really think i could let go. without this, i am just like that little girl crying in my closet that mommy was horribly mean to me and it was NOT fair. needless to say, my mother NEVER came and apologized...a really bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad day.
jill
uv, i am in ohio. i am interviewing on the phone a few, i didn't know borderline was code for problem patient, thanks for that insight. probably why the t terminated me. what orientation is yours? how long IS this road?? i have been at it almost a year!! and i feel like i am starting all over, i know that is not true, but it feels that way.
several t's are just not calling me back, which is better now than later, and probably due to the borderline stuff, they'd prefer simple marriage counseling type stuff. some are not nice, i just find the men in general nicer than the women. i am reallly thinking of exploring a psycho-analytical approach to this, no cbt, and i don't need to hit a pillow anymore about my shitty childhood. not full 'analysis', but a p-a approach to psychotherapy. don't know how far off of psycho-dynamic therapy that is, do you? seems psycho-dynamic is somewhat a generic term that i still haven't embraced the definition, altho i have read about it.
i know my unconscious/subconciuos drives me, the kid (id) is at the wheel, the ego is shrunk, and the super-ego is a nazi!! so, maybe eek out a stronger ego, replace the super-ego with Christ, and tame the childs control over my life and we are there!! sounds simple.
you have been so kind to me, thanks, it is so hard to get the boot, i know you know. did you interview many? what made your choice for this one you are with? again, the mode?? male or female?? why??? (and you don't have to answer any of this!!) thanks, jill
several t's are just not calling me back, which is better now than later, and probably due to the borderline stuff, they'd prefer simple marriage counseling type stuff. some are not nice, i just find the men in general nicer than the women. i am reallly thinking of exploring a psycho-analytical approach to this, no cbt, and i don't need to hit a pillow anymore about my shitty childhood. not full 'analysis', but a p-a approach to psychotherapy. don't know how far off of psycho-dynamic therapy that is, do you? seems psycho-dynamic is somewhat a generic term that i still haven't embraced the definition, altho i have read about it.
i know my unconscious/subconciuos drives me, the kid (id) is at the wheel, the ego is shrunk, and the super-ego is a nazi!! so, maybe eek out a stronger ego, replace the super-ego with Christ, and tame the childs control over my life and we are there!! sounds simple.
you have been so kind to me, thanks, it is so hard to get the boot, i know you know. did you interview many? what made your choice for this one you are with? again, the mode?? male or female?? why??? (and you don't have to answer any of this!!)
thanks, jill
Jill, I wish I could give you about a million hugs...I've been reading along as you have been posting and just hurting for you more than I can say. Everything you are thinking and feeling, I went through it too. (I don't know if you've read through my threads that talk about it...I was going to include links, but then I figured, you probably don't need to read them right now! Maybe some other time...) It felt about like I would imagine it would feel to have my heart ripped out and run through a woodchipper as I stand there and watch. I am glad you are posting here so you can get the kind of support you need right now...and I hope it gives you some measure of hope to know that UV and I have been through this and survived to find good T's.
As far as how much you are posting...Jill, you are not being "self-indulgent". IMO there is no such thing as posting "too much" about the pain you are going through. For most of us here it is one of our worst nightmares that our T's would ever abandon us this way. I appreciate the link UV posted...the effects of being harmed by a therapist cannot be overstated. I circled for a good long while after my termination...and felt so many times that I was posting too much about it. But hear this, posting about it will help keep you from turning it back on yourself. And you deserved NONE of this, Jill. I have serious doubts about this incompentent T's diagnosis of you, but even if you have BPD, you still deserved none of it, in fact I think it would only serve to make her treatment of you that much more unethical.
You said you are looking for someone who practices psychodynamic therapy. My experience with that has been good. The individual T I have now is psychodynamic/relational. If you could find someone who knows about Attachment Theory as applied to adult patients, that might turn out well for you too. Our couples T I chose because he was the first T I found on Psychology Today in our area whose profile included knowledge of Attachment Theory (but I was prepared to drive 2-3 hours out to find someone like that if I had to). He also does CBT...but the thing is, I can handle it, because his understanding of Attachment Theory is what drives the homework he has us do. He always explains why he is having us do it so it makes sense within the framework of attachment issues. And to me that makes all the difference. If someone is going to tell me to do something that feels weird at first, and I'm not sure I want to do it, it helps a TON if they can explain WHY I should. It also helps a ton to feel at least somewhat understood in the first place.
There were a few things that got me through the dark place you are in right now. Lots of posting about it was one. The supportive responses from folks on this board were priceless. Among other things, they encouraged me to find the individual T I have now. She helped me out of that place, too, by validating what happened and giving me the space to express all my feelings about it when I've needed to (at one point she even offered to go back to that clinic with me, so I could say what I didn't get to say at the time of the termination).
The final thing that "unhooked" me and got me out of that awful circling and despair once and for all (I hope) was the experience I had with meeting alone with our couples T as part of the intake process. All I knew is that a few days before the session, I was really scared to be there alone with him. What I realized afterward is that I was still convinced that my brokenness and neediness had "caused" my former T to behave the way he did, and/or had caused me to "misinterpret" and "distort" things, so I was sure it was going to happen again. Things felt "weird" the very first time I met with my former T, so I knew if I felt it again with this T, then it would prove I was too sick for therapy. But what happened is, after I got over being nervous, the session went pretty well...and I didn't get that weird feeling like before...this T even asked how sex was going between me and my DH, and I felt comfortable and SAFE answering him honestly and even rather candidly. It wasn't until I was on my way home that I realized what that meant...and I was so happy about that.
So far since then, even though I still feel angry and hurt and disappointed when I think about what happened, it doesn't pull me down into that black hole of self-doubt and self-loathing anymore. I really hope you keep plugging along, keep putting one foot in front of the other and find a good T who understands where you are coming from, who is healthy and has done enough of their own work so they aren't threatened by the already extensive knowledge you have about yourself...so you can heal, not only from what you came to therapy for, but also from the additional trauma this T has caused you.
I know it doesn't feel like it right now, Jill, but you are doing spectacularly well considering what you have been through.
Big hugs,
SG
I am glad you are posting here so you can get the kind of support you need right now...and I hope it gives you some measure of hope to know that UV and I have been through this and survived to find good T's. As far as how much you are posting...Jill, you are not being "self-indulgent". IMO there is no such thing as posting "too much" about the pain you are going through. For most of us here it is one of our worst nightmares that our T's would ever abandon us this way. I appreciate the link UV posted...the effects of being harmed by a therapist cannot be overstated. I circled for a good long while after my termination...and felt so many times that I was posting too much about it. But hear this, posting about it will help keep you from turning it back on yourself. And you deserved NONE of this, Jill. I have serious doubts about this incompentent T's diagnosis of you, but even if you have BPD, you still deserved none of it, in fact I think it would only serve to make her treatment of you that much more unethical.
You said you are looking for someone who practices psychodynamic therapy. My experience with that has been good. The individual T I have now is psychodynamic/relational. If you could find someone who knows about Attachment Theory as applied to adult patients, that might turn out well for you too. Our couples T I chose because he was the first T I found on Psychology Today in our area whose profile included knowledge of Attachment Theory (but I was prepared to drive 2-3 hours out to find someone like that if I had to). He also does CBT...but the thing is, I can handle it, because his understanding of Attachment Theory is what drives the homework he has us do. He always explains why he is having us do it so it makes sense within the framework of attachment issues. And to me that makes all the difference. If someone is going to tell me to do something that feels weird at first, and I'm not sure I want to do it, it helps a TON if they can explain WHY I should. It also helps a ton to feel at least somewhat understood in the first place.
There were a few things that got me through the dark place you are in right now. Lots of posting about it was one. The supportive responses from folks on this board were priceless. Among other things, they encouraged me to find the individual T I have now. She helped me out of that place, too, by validating what happened and giving me the space to express all my feelings about it when I've needed to (at one point she even offered to go back to that clinic with me, so I could say what I didn't get to say at the time of the termination).
The final thing that "unhooked" me and got me out of that awful circling and despair once and for all (I hope) was the experience I had with meeting alone with our couples T as part of the intake process. All I knew is that a few days before the session, I was really scared to be there alone with him. What I realized afterward is that I was still convinced that my brokenness and neediness had "caused" my former T to behave the way he did, and/or had caused me to "misinterpret" and "distort" things, so I was sure it was going to happen again. Things felt "weird" the very first time I met with my former T, so I knew if I felt it again with this T, then it would prove I was too sick for therapy. But what happened is, after I got over being nervous, the session went pretty well...and I didn't get that weird feeling like before...this T even asked how sex was going between me and my DH, and I felt comfortable and SAFE answering him honestly and even rather candidly. It wasn't until I was on my way home that I realized what that meant...and I was so happy about that.
So far since then, even though I still feel angry and hurt and disappointed when I think about what happened, it doesn't pull me down into that black hole of self-doubt and self-loathing anymore. I really hope you keep plugging along, keep putting one foot in front of the other and find a good T who understands where you are coming from, who is healthy and has done enough of their own work so they aren't threatened by the already extensive knowledge you have about yourself...so you can heal, not only from what you came to therapy for, but also from the additional trauma this T has caused you.
I know it doesn't feel like it right now, Jill, but you are doing spectacularly well considering what you have been through.
Big hugs,
SG
""What I realized afterward is that I was still convinced that my brokenness and neediness had "caused" my former T to behave the way he did, "" your quote, sg
sg, i appreciate you saying i am doing well. and i mean this kindly, but, i don't believe you!! i am deranged, and i know it, but thanks, and i will cling to the little bit of hope i have that you are being honest with me.
don't take that mean, but, wow, i am circling the drain and feel horrible, and the quote from you above hit me so accurately. yes, i feel i caused this all, and the berating i got from her in the termination meeting just was unreal, and lots of lies. and distortions. saying i would not cooperate, hell, i cooperated a ton, even listening at length at her brag about herself and all her f=ing experience. my t friend couldn't believe how much she talked about herself. and y'no, i had hunches early on that she was not to be trusted, i just wanted it SO MUCH!!! she told me to never be nicer to someone than they are to you. i thought that sounded unChristian, and i told her that. she smoothed that out a bit, and i just chose to ignore it. she was such a bragger, too, which is just a cover for a weak self esteem, isn't it??
y'all are sweet to let me rag, thanks sg, for giving me permission, and maybe by talking about it, you are right, that is a good sign.
i just want to let go of this, and find a new place to be. and to quit letting her broken promises haunt me. and they do, i wake in the night and can't get back to sleep, i can't get anything done, altho i did get dinner made today which is the first time since she booted me. i do know it is for the better, but it seems impossible to find a good t that really wants to take someone like me on. and i say that, knowing that i am, in my heart, a good person. but, it just seems that, just as a kid, the authority figure doesn't believe me...they believe my f-ed up, abusive schizophrenic, but 'beautiful' sister. just like home, with t3, but no sister. mom yelling at me and creating stories that aren't true, and i am too young and too weak and too upset to present myself as a sane person. just like home. and t3 and mom are mean spirited and cruel, and don't speak truth. just lies. transference, yeah, but she sure did nothing to disprove my theory that women (not y'all, and i have lots of good girl friends) are crafty, have a hidden agenda, will turn on you on a dime, and DEEPLY HATE ANYONE skinnier than they are!!!
sorry for that horrible comment, but she sure 'keyed' in on me saying i'd lost 20 pounds and wanted to know my secret...a frontal labotomy is my answer....does WONDERS for weight loss!!
f. thanks, y'all, and thanks sg and uv, knowing others who have survived this helps. did you feel like you had to be extra nice to just not get kicked out again?? i am afraid i will feel that way and it'll just be a waste. wow, and she knew how hard it was when dr. sleepy fell asleep, and she just did it again. un f-ing believable. and here i sit. strike three. i am out. game over. TILT! jill
sg, i appreciate you saying i am doing well. and i mean this kindly, but, i don't believe you!!
i am deranged, and i know it, but thanks, and i will cling to the little bit of hope i have that you are being honest with me.don't take that mean, but, wow, i am circling the drain and feel horrible, and the quote from you above hit me so accurately. yes, i feel i caused this all, and the berating i got from her in the termination meeting just was unreal, and lots of lies. and distortions. saying i would not cooperate, hell, i cooperated a ton, even listening at length at her brag about herself and all her f=ing experience. my t friend couldn't believe how much she talked about herself. and y'no, i had hunches early on that she was not to be trusted, i just wanted it SO MUCH!!! she told me to never be nicer to someone than they are to you. i thought that sounded unChristian, and i told her that. she smoothed that out a bit, and i just chose to ignore it. she was such a bragger, too, which is just a cover for a weak self esteem, isn't it??
y'all are sweet to let me rag, thanks sg, for giving me permission, and maybe by talking about it, you are right, that is a good sign.
i just want to let go of this, and find a new place to be. and to quit letting her broken promises haunt me. and they do, i wake in the night and can't get back to sleep, i can't get anything done, altho i did get dinner made today which is the first time since she booted me. i do know it is for the better, but it seems impossible to find a good t that really wants to take someone like me on. and i say that, knowing that i am, in my heart, a good person. but, it just seems that, just as a kid, the authority figure doesn't believe me...they believe my f-ed up, abusive schizophrenic, but 'beautiful' sister. just like home, with t3, but no sister. mom yelling at me and creating stories that aren't true, and i am too young and too weak and too upset to present myself as a sane person. just like home. and t3 and mom are mean spirited and cruel, and don't speak truth. just lies. transference, yeah, but she sure did nothing to disprove my theory that women (not y'all, and i have lots of good girl friends) are crafty, have a hidden agenda, will turn on you on a dime, and DEEPLY HATE ANYONE skinnier than they are!!!
sorry for that horrible comment, but she sure 'keyed' in on me saying i'd lost 20 pounds and wanted to know my secret...a frontal labotomy is my answer....does WONDERS for weight loss!!
f. thanks, y'all, and thanks sg and uv, knowing others who have survived this helps. did you feel like you had to be extra nice to just not get kicked out again?? i am afraid i will feel that way and it'll just be a waste. wow, and she knew how hard it was when dr. sleepy fell asleep, and she just did it again. un f-ing believable. and here i sit. strike three. i am out. game over. TILT! jill
uv, you really seem to know your stuff. i haven't read the article yet, wanted to thank you first. yes, clinically narcissistic mother, weak father, schizophrenic sister and sa, crappy deal. and i never admitted i was affected (to myself) until major collapse a year ago, and fighting my way up ever since.
so you don't really work off of a dx, i guess i am an analytical person, and feel that is first base. but, maybe not. and two, what i am hearing from the few analysts i have spoken with is that they really don't do old fashioned analysis, they do, as one said 'psycho-analytical psycho-therapy'...don't know that that means psycho-dynamic, though. i will read your article, and pardon my confusion lately about previous posts, my head is a fog at best lately.
thanks for being here for me, uv. jill (and others, too, y'all are all so good to me...it feels so weird to have so many nice people who 'get' it)
so you don't really work off of a dx, i guess i am an analytical person, and feel that is first base. but, maybe not. and two, what i am hearing from the few analysts i have spoken with is that they really don't do old fashioned analysis, they do, as one said 'psycho-analytical psycho-therapy'...don't know that that means psycho-dynamic, though. i will read your article, and pardon my confusion lately about previous posts, my head is a fog at best lately.
thanks for being here for me, uv. jill (and others, too, y'all are all so good to me...it feels so weird to have so many nice people who 'get' it)
Hi Jill
I'm so proud of your strength. And that you are continuing to talk and work through this.
I know you want this pain to end and be in a better place. I'm not sure how long it lasts. It's been 7 months for me and I still hurt from ex-T. Once I was driving to see current T and got turned around due to construction and ended up absent-mindedly going to ex-T's office instead. I didn't go inside (thankfully) but it scared me that I went on autopilot and that's where it took me - to her!
I think the thing that holds back us healing from abusive Ts the most is the lack of guilt and acknowledgment on their part. As for mine, I know she still in her office smiling that treacherous phony smile at the next (so-called difficult) patient. And I know she feels ZERO remorse. That's what hurt like hell. I might not have been so bad off if she'd just said, she couldn't deal with me and it was of her own shortcomings, but she instead labeled me an alcohol abuser and told me to go away. (I'm not btw. I told her a story about alcohol that she took out of context)
I do feel like I have to be extra nice to current T now. Especially if I feel like I've said something annoying. I don't want to be labeled and tossed out on my arse again.
I was thinking of ways for you to screen the next T. I was thinking about asking them what they would look for if they were searching for a T. That question might catch them off guard but should get some thoughtful replies from the good ones. The bad ones will probably refuse to answer or so deliberately talk (boast) about themselves you'll hear they are full of it. The good ones should be thoughtful in their answers and reply not only with humble replies about them, but also make them aware of what the may not perfectly represent their craft. If that makes sense?
Is there any way you can try out 2 T's at once. I know it's not a popular choice (and probably expensive, maybe only one per week alternating?)
What is your timeframe for finding new T? Right away or do you want to ease into it for a few months? Cause if going easy, then maybe not seeing the new T very frequently at first? IDK, maybe cut down on the attachment.
I'm not sure which sex to suggest cause I have both mommy and daddy complexes. Blah! I do tend to gravitate toward the women thinking that girls are pink and soft and like ribbons and warm. And guys are snails and powertools and spit.
It's no wonder though that you fell the way you do about ex-T being somewhere waiting to pounce. I remember your comparison of her to a tiger. Dang, and I really tried hard to convince you she wasn't and all along she was. So it is reasonable for you to feel this way about her. Gah! I don't know what makes some people so fricking mean.
I know it bumpy for you now Jill, but I swear I'm not lying when I say I admire how strong you are being. and taking the care to look for #4 is awesome. And making dinner is a definite step forward!!! Really, it is. I am terrible at keeping up the house and the things like dinner and dishes when I'm spiraling, and that's me just regular day-to-day. You inspire me Jill. ((((((hugs))))))
I'm so proud of your strength. And that you are continuing to talk and work through this.
I know you want this pain to end and be in a better place. I'm not sure how long it lasts. It's been 7 months for me and I still hurt from ex-T. Once I was driving to see current T and got turned around due to construction and ended up absent-mindedly going to ex-T's office instead. I didn't go inside (thankfully) but it scared me that I went on autopilot and that's where it took me - to her!
I think the thing that holds back us healing from abusive Ts the most is the lack of guilt and acknowledgment on their part. As for mine, I know she still in her office smiling that treacherous phony smile at the next (so-called difficult) patient. And I know she feels ZERO remorse. That's what hurt like hell. I might not have been so bad off if she'd just said, she couldn't deal with me and it was of her own shortcomings, but she instead labeled me an alcohol abuser and told me to go away. (I'm not btw. I told her a story about alcohol that she took out of context)
I do feel like I have to be extra nice to current T now. Especially if I feel like I've said something annoying. I don't want to be labeled and tossed out on my arse again.
I was thinking of ways for you to screen the next T. I was thinking about asking them what they would look for if they were searching for a T. That question might catch them off guard but should get some thoughtful replies from the good ones. The bad ones will probably refuse to answer or so deliberately talk (boast) about themselves you'll hear they are full of it. The good ones should be thoughtful in their answers and reply not only with humble replies about them, but also make them aware of what the may not perfectly represent their craft. If that makes sense?
Is there any way you can try out 2 T's at once. I know it's not a popular choice (and probably expensive, maybe only one per week alternating?)
What is your timeframe for finding new T? Right away or do you want to ease into it for a few months? Cause if going easy, then maybe not seeing the new T very frequently at first? IDK, maybe cut down on the attachment.
I'm not sure which sex to suggest cause I have both mommy and daddy complexes. Blah! I do tend to gravitate toward the women thinking that girls are pink and soft and like ribbons and warm. And guys are snails and powertools and spit.
It's no wonder though that you fell the way you do about ex-T being somewhere waiting to pounce. I remember your comparison of her to a tiger. Dang, and I really tried hard to convince you she wasn't and all along she was. So it is reasonable for you to feel this way about her. Gah! I don't know what makes some people so fricking mean.
I know it bumpy for you now Jill, but I swear I'm not lying when I say I admire how strong you are being. and taking the care to look for #4 is awesome. And making dinner is a definite step forward!!! Really, it is. I am terrible at keeping up the house and the things like dinner and dishes when I'm spiraling, and that's me just regular day-to-day. You inspire me Jill. ((((((hugs))))))
crappy day, so i am just writing to say thanks, uv, i am reading this article you attached and several linked through that, i appreciate that, it keeps my mind occupied on something perhaps that can help me pick the new t, and i do think psycho-analytical is the way to go, the first article, i read last night and see that psycho-dynamic and psycho-analytical psycho-therapy are the same thing. and psycho-analysis (old fashioned) is the couch and free associate for 5 years, so, that helps clear some confusion. many of these articles are so good, the SWAP project is so interesting as opposed to the dsm, and i see hysterionic and borderline as more my arena, so that helps alot. not that i am a diagnosis, but it helps to know, for example, how to get to california if you know you are in idaho!!
and sis, forlorn, thanks for the encouragement. i may try two, like you said, so that i don't get 'too attached' and can find maybe one that can go more of the distance. and i am really going to try to be more objective about these people and not fall in love so easily...thanks, my friend.
i will write more later, a bit zoned on the meds, but am getting more stable. thanks, jill
and sis, forlorn, thanks for the encouragement. i may try two, like you said, so that i don't get 'too attached' and can find maybe one that can go more of the distance. and i am really going to try to be more objective about these people and not fall in love so easily...thanks, my friend.
i will write more later, a bit zoned on the meds, but am getting more stable. thanks, jill
Jill I’ve been reading your posts these last couple of weeks and feel for you so much - I’ve been (am) in a really similar situation myself - which is why I’ve hardly been posting on forum. But thought if I told what’s going on with me, maybe you won’t feel quite so alone (or abnormal!) knowing that someone else is going through the same kind of stuff right now.
I’ve been trying to find a good T since September last year - to date (counting the latest T I saw yesterday for first time) I’ve seen SEVENTEEN therapists - and most of them for much more than just one session. Like you I met a T a while back whom I really liked (and felt immediate attachment, most unusually for me) but she terminated ME in the third session with similar kinds of comments (though not so damning) as your T3 made to you - as a result of my trying to talk to her about how the way she’d been in previous session had bothered me (message: never confront a T about their methods ). I got the spiel about it’s more or less being MY fault because I didn’t ‘like’ the way she worked and therefore she just couldn’t work with me blah blah and I was so overwhelmed by this (totally blew any confidence I had that a T was there for the client) that with every T I’ve since seen I’ve been on my best behaviour, trying to be a ‘good’ client so they’ll at least give me a chance before rejecting me making me feel like I’m unfixable or too ‘bad’ for a T to want to work with me etc. But the effects of her terminating me like that have gone a lot deeper - keyed right into my deep abandonment fears and this is now three months later and I’m still reeling from it.
But just to add to this, I thought I’d then found a good new T, a woman (again!) whom I really liked and who seemed to be the right person, and I could see I was getting attached quickly too, only she was going to have a six week break for surgery - I saw her five sessions and thought she was so good that it was worth my while waiting for her, especially as she promised email therapy in the weeks before she could come back to work properly. Well that was six weeks ago and to date I haven’t heard a peep from her, despite my sending her an email asking what’s going on. So - double rejection and a million times worse in how I feel - about me, about therapy, about everything generally. I have been in a REALLY bad way for weeks now so I can truly sympathize with how you’re feeling Jill.
And having seen so many therapists (I’ve worked my way through all the local ones, now I’m having to look a lot further away to make appointments lol) naturally I’m going through the ‘oh god there’s something so badly wrong with me that no-one can help me’ experience. Well that kind of thinking really slays me, but there’s a big part of me that suddenly digs its heels in and goes, like hell, it’s not ME, it’s incompetent, superficial, unprofessional, inexperienced Ts who are the problem - I need help and by god I’m going to keep on and on and on looking, researching and interviewing until I finally find the T who is really going to be able to help me. (Lol that could be famous last words!)
I guess Jill what I’m trying to say is that no matter how devastated T3 has made you feel, it’s not YOU, you have every right in the world to expect a T to be there for you, to help you, to put your needs first (something I’d like to remind my surgery-T about!) - and that you need to take a stand for what you know you need and want and set about being ruthless in weeding out Ts who don’t come up to scratch. Which means of course putting yourself out there and carrying on looking for a new T - that would be the best resolution to how you’re feeling now - finding the right T who can really start to help you like you need.
When I have the hope that I CAN get the help I need, then I’m able to deal with all these crap anti-me feelings and beliefs - giving myself that hope has meant working really hard lining up appointment after appointment with a seemingly endless parade of new Ts. Half the time I can’t remember anymore what I said to whom - I seem to have been talking about myself so much lately and I don’t remember who I’ve specifically said it to lol.
I have to say also Jill, that the more Ts I’ve seen and the more I’ve had to tell my story, the clearer I’m becoming on what it is I do need and want from a T and that makes it a lot easier to tell much more quickly when a T isn’t going to be able to help.
I really hope you start to feel better about this SOON and can use that wonderful strength and determination you have to go out there and find yourself the T that’s right for you.
Hugs to you Jill
LL
p.s. UV thanks so much for the links (and your comments) they are so useful I’ve been looking everything up that you post - it’s so helpful to have access to that kind of info :hug:
I’ve been trying to find a good T since September last year - to date (counting the latest T I saw yesterday for first time) I’ve seen SEVENTEEN therapists - and most of them for much more than just one session. Like you I met a T a while back whom I really liked (and felt immediate attachment, most unusually for me) but she terminated ME in the third session with similar kinds of comments (though not so damning) as your T3 made to you - as a result of my trying to talk to her about how the way she’d been in previous session had bothered me (message: never confront a T about their methods
). I got the spiel about it’s more or less being MY fault because I didn’t ‘like’ the way she worked and therefore she just couldn’t work with me blah blah and I was so overwhelmed by this (totally blew any confidence I had that a T was there for the client) that with every T I’ve since seen I’ve been on my best behaviour, trying to be a ‘good’ client so they’ll at least give me a chance before rejecting me making me feel like I’m unfixable or too ‘bad’ for a T to want to work with me etc. But the effects of her terminating me like that have gone a lot deeper - keyed right into my deep abandonment fears and this is now three months later and I’m still reeling from it.But just to add to this, I thought I’d then found a good new T, a woman (again!) whom I really liked and who seemed to be the right person, and I could see I was getting attached quickly too, only she was going to have a six week break for surgery - I saw her five sessions and thought she was so good that it was worth my while waiting for her, especially as she promised email therapy in the weeks before she could come back to work properly. Well that was six weeks ago and to date I haven’t heard a peep from her, despite my sending her an email asking what’s going on. So - double rejection and a million times worse in how I feel - about me, about therapy, about everything generally. I have been in a REALLY bad way for weeks now so I can truly sympathize with how you’re feeling Jill.
And having seen so many therapists (I’ve worked my way through all the local ones, now I’m having to look a lot further away to make appointments lol) naturally I’m going through the ‘oh god there’s something so badly wrong with me that no-one can help me’ experience. Well that kind of thinking really slays me, but there’s a big part of me that suddenly digs its heels in and goes, like hell, it’s not ME, it’s incompetent, superficial, unprofessional, inexperienced Ts who are the problem - I need help and by god I’m going to keep on and on and on looking, researching and interviewing until I finally find the T who is really going to be able to help me. (Lol that could be famous last words!)
I guess Jill what I’m trying to say is that no matter how devastated T3 has made you feel, it’s not YOU, you have every right in the world to expect a T to be there for you, to help you, to put your needs first (something I’d like to remind my surgery-T about!) - and that you need to take a stand for what you know you need and want and set about being ruthless in weeding out Ts who don’t come up to scratch. Which means of course putting yourself out there and carrying on looking for a new T - that would be the best resolution to how you’re feeling now - finding the right T who can really start to help you like you need.
When I have the hope that I CAN get the help I need, then I’m able to deal with all these crap anti-me feelings and beliefs - giving myself that hope has meant working really hard lining up appointment after appointment with a seemingly endless parade of new Ts. Half the time I can’t remember anymore what I said to whom - I seem to have been talking about myself so much lately and I don’t remember who I’ve specifically said it to lol.
I have to say also Jill, that the more Ts I’ve seen and the more I’ve had to tell my story, the clearer I’m becoming on what it is I do need and want from a T and that makes it a lot easier to tell much more quickly when a T isn’t going to be able to help.
I really hope you start to feel better about this SOON and can use that wonderful strength and determination you have to go out there and find yourself the T that’s right for you.
Hugs to you Jill
LL
p.s. UV thanks so much for the links (and your comments) they are so useful I’ve been looking everything up that you post - it’s so helpful to have access to that kind of info :hug:
LL, wow, 17, that is a big number. i admire your determination. i do feel that same thought, that i have to be on really good behavior, but the confounding thing about it, i WAS really nice, until the termination meeting when i confronted her on lies and told her boldly and to her face to NEVER terminate an attachment person via email.
that is what scares me, i think it is more my diagnosis she doesn't want to deal with, i guess she is just not confident with borderline traits.
LL, what do you think made yours terminate you?? it just is unbelievable that a t would do this, don't they take that same 'do no harm' oath that dr.'s take??
how have you kept looking?? i am already confused about what i have told what to, and i so hate having to tell the same stories to rehash, but maybe, as on p told me, the GOOD t's "meet you where you are".
i got this lady off of psychology today's website, but i think i am leaning to psycho analysis type stuff, and there is a local analysis organization that i am drumming through.
sorry you are having to drive farther out. LL, i must hand it to you that you are keeping plugging away, and actually, people getting terminated is more common than i realized. my t friend was terminated before...although she said there are clear and specific rules for terminating, which my shitty t DID NOT follow, the phase out period and such.
but, there are a lot of bad professionals in any field, i suppose.
i don't know what strength you are admiring, i feel like hell. really bad night last night. afraid no one will want to take me on, and then really really mad, because i KNOW I AM A NICE PERSON, but am sick.
LL, i would love to know your thoughts on why you were terminated. i think i found my t's trigger, she can't handle or resolve conflict, and was 'narcissistically injured' when i didn't fit the mold that she wanted me in....one 'fascinated with her boring ass unrelated stories'. oh, i hate her so violently. it is uncomfortable for me to have such hatred and anger. it is out of proportion to the deal, i know, which is so characteristic of this emotional dysregulation i feel. i am also curious about the DBT therapy for emotional regulation. it is so hard and scary have mental issues. and having no one to help you professionally, only to add to them.
if i ever get well, i will file a complaint with her board. i have to. she shouldn't be allowed to harm people and get paid for it. she should be held accountable.
have you ever thought of taking action against unethical treatment?? i feel it is my DUTY, to help others like me keep from falling into her web.
thanks for the hugs, and i would love to know how you find the ability to keep at it. how are you whittling down your search?? cbt or p-d? male/female?
good luck, my friend. sorry you are in a bad situation, too. hugs and prayers, jill
that is what scares me, i think it is more my diagnosis she doesn't want to deal with, i guess she is just not confident with borderline traits.
LL, what do you think made yours terminate you?? it just is unbelievable that a t would do this, don't they take that same 'do no harm' oath that dr.'s take??
how have you kept looking?? i am already confused about what i have told what to, and i so hate having to tell the same stories to rehash, but maybe, as on p told me, the GOOD t's "meet you where you are".
i got this lady off of psychology today's website, but i think i am leaning to psycho analysis type stuff, and there is a local analysis organization that i am drumming through.
sorry you are having to drive farther out. LL, i must hand it to you that you are keeping plugging away, and actually, people getting terminated is more common than i realized. my t friend was terminated before...although she said there are clear and specific rules for terminating, which my shitty t DID NOT follow, the phase out period and such.
but, there are a lot of bad professionals in any field, i suppose.
i don't know what strength you are admiring, i feel like hell. really bad night last night. afraid no one will want to take me on, and then really really mad, because i KNOW I AM A NICE PERSON, but am sick.
LL, i would love to know your thoughts on why you were terminated. i think i found my t's trigger, she can't handle or resolve conflict, and was 'narcissistically injured' when i didn't fit the mold that she wanted me in....one 'fascinated with her boring ass unrelated stories'. oh, i hate her so violently. it is uncomfortable for me to have such hatred and anger. it is out of proportion to the deal, i know, which is so characteristic of this emotional dysregulation i feel. i am also curious about the DBT therapy for emotional regulation. it is so hard and scary have mental issues. and having no one to help you professionally, only to add to them.
if i ever get well, i will file a complaint with her board. i have to. she shouldn't be allowed to harm people and get paid for it. she should be held accountable.
have you ever thought of taking action against unethical treatment?? i feel it is my DUTY, to help others like me keep from falling into her web.
thanks for the hugs, and i would love to know how you find the ability to keep at it. how are you whittling down your search?? cbt or p-d? male/female?
good luck, my friend. sorry you are in a bad situation, too. hugs and prayers, jill
Hey there Jill - god I'm sorry you are still feeling so bad, I guess it doesn't help that you're having to find out for yourself where to find new Ts and what sort of things to look for. If I remember rightly you started in therapy about a year ago? I guess I'm in a slightly more comfortable position in that I've been in and out of therapy all my life so looking for a T isn't as confusing or such an unknown as it might otherwise be.
Jill you have every right to hate that woman, even though the feeling might be making you feel even worse, at least being able to be angry at her (she deserves it!) stops you from falling into the trap of taking all the blame on yourself. I have to admit that underneath, or rather alongside, the self hate and self blame I feel because of the Ts who have dumped me, I am absolutely f***ing enraged - not least because they've blown the implicit faith I used to have in the fact that therapists act in good faith. Not so!!!! Damn them for being just like everybody else - and that's not as silly as it sounds, because the whole point of going into therapy is to establish the kind of relationship that you don't normally get in the real world with 'normal' people.
I really don't know properly why the first T I liked terminated me (I tell you what though it gave me one hell of a shock - I might have expected it had I been acting up or being out of control but it was a total surprise to me) - she was very smooth and very much in control and the only reason she gave was that as I didn't like her way of working she couldn't work with me. Thinking about it I suspect she was on a power trip, the sort of woman who uses therapy as a way of asserting her will, her opinions, her judgements of things over vulnerable and trusting clients, in order to - I don't really know why, maybe give herself a sense of importance, of mattering? It's all guesswork on my part, though I could see the will to power going on in lots of subtle ways throughout the three sessions, ways that I couldn't really confront her on. So that when I did attempt to pull her up on some of the things she'd said and done she got quite hostile (in a very calm controlled way!) and really switched from being Mrs Friendly I Know What I'm Doing You Can Trust Me to 'how dare you contradict or question the things I say and do in therapy'.
Uh oh I've realized it's really late now and I have to go get dinner, would like to say more so will come back later and continue.
Hope you're hanging in there (and YES you do have strength and determination, you've shown that over and over in your posts on here!)
Hugs to you Jill
LL
Jill you have every right to hate that woman, even though the feeling might be making you feel even worse, at least being able to be angry at her (she deserves it!) stops you from falling into the trap of taking all the blame on yourself. I have to admit that underneath, or rather alongside, the self hate and self blame I feel because of the Ts who have dumped me, I am absolutely f***ing enraged - not least because they've blown the implicit faith I used to have in the fact that therapists act in good faith. Not so!!!! Damn them for being just like everybody else - and that's not as silly as it sounds, because the whole point of going into therapy is to establish the kind of relationship that you don't normally get in the real world with 'normal' people.
I really don't know properly why the first T I liked terminated me (I tell you what though it gave me one hell of a shock - I might have expected it had I been acting up or being out of control but it was a total surprise to me) - she was very smooth and very much in control and the only reason she gave was that as I didn't like her way of working she couldn't work with me. Thinking about it I suspect she was on a power trip, the sort of woman who uses therapy as a way of asserting her will, her opinions, her judgements of things over vulnerable and trusting clients, in order to - I don't really know why, maybe give herself a sense of importance, of mattering? It's all guesswork on my part, though I could see the will to power going on in lots of subtle ways throughout the three sessions, ways that I couldn't really confront her on. So that when I did attempt to pull her up on some of the things she'd said and done she got quite hostile (in a very calm controlled way!) and really switched from being Mrs Friendly I Know What I'm Doing You Can Trust Me to 'how dare you contradict or question the things I say and do in therapy'.
Uh oh I've realized it's really late now and I have to go get dinner, would like to say more so will come back later and continue.
Hope you're hanging in there (and YES you do have strength and determination, you've shown that over and over in your posts on here!)
Hugs to you Jill
LL
quote:the only reason she gave was that as I didn't like her way of working she couldn't work with me. Thinking about it I suspect she was on a power trip, the sort of woman who uses therapy as a way of asserting her will, her opinions, her judgements of things over vulnerable and trusting clients, in order to - I don't really know why, maybe give herself a sense of importance, of mattering? It's all guesswork on my part, though I could see the will to power going on in lots of subtle ways throughout the three sessions, ways that I couldn't really confront her on. So that when I did attempt to pull her up on some of the things she'd said and done she got quite hostile (in a very calm controlled way!) and really switched from being Mrs Friendly I Know What I'm Doing You Can Trust Me to 'how dare you contradict or question the things I say and do in therapy'.
LL, y'no, i have doubled my meds, and i am feeling better today, for the first day since the boot, so, thanks!!
and yes, your quote is exactly what mine had, i think she knew my intellect, and as long as i was 'impressed with her style of therapy' i was fine, but the very FIRST time i got angry with her, as in the voice of a five year old on the email, she couldn't handle it. really weak conflict resolution skills, and very weak little ego, that one. and, what a f-ing B-T-H!!
anyway, thanks, as always, for the support, LL, and others. it helps, interesting, LL, that your termination took you by surprise, too. just shows how 'not our fault' it was, i was SHOCKED!! and the way i PLEADED WITH HER to take me back, oh, i hope you handled it better, LL.
i know i have women issues, but, wow, did our t's ever validate these issues!!!! glad you have migrated along, LL, into better horizons. today is the first day (sat of course) that i have thought i might really try another. lots of encouragement from my h, who saw t3 at the termination meeting and could see how cruel and punitive she was, not unlike my narcissistic mom...i tell you, these people (t's) don't get into psychology because they hold all the answers!!!! mine as much as told me that, as 'she couldn't get angry as a child'...yowza, did she not ever resolve THAT issue!!! man, what a weenie. have i mentioned i f-ing HATE HER!!!! just in case you forgot. AGH! t3 = F cubed. jill
Hi there Jill I finally made it back.
Lol Jill even now three months later when I drive past her office I get this momentary pang of wistful longing, a little voice whispers ‘I could be in there now, could be well and truly on my way into healing therapy’ and I catch myself and have to shake my head wtf? I really liked her in the first session and after that it was crap all the way, so how come I’m secretly mooning over not being in her life??? Something about her must have really gotten to me, but for the life of me I can’t place it and don’t understand it, some kind of emotional pull of which I was completely unaware and still don’t get why I have these sad feelings about her when 99% of me knows totally that she is poison. Transference or what??? And for weeks afterwards I kept having these sudden fantasies, out of nowhere, of being able to go back to her and just get on with therapy as if she’s actually waiting for ME to come back rather than that she sent me away... so I completely understand your writing to ask T3 to take you back that’s not bad handling at all it’s something you needed to do (though her response was rubbish - at least you took it all the way and got to really know how in the wrong SHE is - imagine if you’d just accepted her email and didn’t pursue it, you’d be putting yourself through even more hell now than you’re in!)
Yeah, like with your T3 mine couldn’t handle conflict - but she had it down to a fine art how to devastate someone who dared to oppose her - no way could what she did be contested ethically she’s far too clever and smooth an operator to be caught out like that (though I reckon she shouldn’t have charged me for the ‘termination’ session, seeing as how she spent most of the session invalidating everything I was saying and telling me she ‘couldn’t’ work with me, it hardly counts as therapy does it?)
Actually I do know at least one of the things that really drew me to her - that air of quiet confidence, of her genuinely believing she knew what she was doing, that sense of inner strength that I seem to be a sucker for - someone who knows more and better than me and is prepared to use that knowledge to help me... Well it seems that that quiet confidence is actually self centred arrogance and rigid adherence to always being in the right, but even knowing that doesn’t stop me being attracted to it, like iron filings to a magnet. I think I got myself suckered by her whole persona appealing to my ‘please someone just tell me what to do’ desperation and that’s why her subsequent rejection of me (no other way to put it really) really did the damage, the whole stern punishing authority figure set up, the adult who knows all the rules pretty clearly sending the message that oh boy have you broken the rules big time, so big time that there’s no way back to grace and favour for you kiddo! Gah I hate what I’m finding out about myself with this, I hate that it makes me so dependent on the goodwill of someone else to become whole.
Hey it’s really funny, but reading your comments about women I have to ask myself too, whether this is a gender thing. After finishing with previous T (of six months) who was a man, I decided that I really needed a female T - had this idea that women are more nurturing and caring and kind and in touch with emotions, more able to go deeply and with more understanding into feelings than men (and also, the whole shame thing to do with physical stuff, talking to a MAN about it oh no ick ick ick). Well now I’m not so sure - maybe I’ve been compensating for my own prejudices (it’s the women in my family who were the evil ones, between them my grandmother, mother and stepmother really did a fantastic number on me - while the men, my grandfather, father and brother - were the kinder nicer ones (though weak as piss at the same time). But I have to admit that personally I find girls generally more spiteful and petty and downright nasty than boys (sorry ladies, I don’t mean ANY offence to anyone, this is just me and my internal set up and I’m pretty sure it has a lot more to do with how I perceive myself than with how girls really are.) But it makes it all so damn confusing trying to figure out why Ts act and react as they do and trying to work out whether my reactions to a T are because of who they really are or whether it’s more to do with what’s going on in me - makes it so hard to choose the right T.
Well the gender thing is academic right now anyway because the only half way decent Ts I’ve managed to unearth in my seemingly endless quest are men - initially I restricted myself only to women but pretty soon had to start looking at male T’s profiles because there just weren’t the experienced Ts or ones without those horrible letters CBT in their profiles amongst the women. I guess there are pluses and drawbacks with both genders. *sigh*
Anyway Jill good on you for feeling like looking out another T - even if it’s the weekend you can still research them as much as you can on internet, really scour the registers and look up websites and compare approaches and draw up a short list of Ts to phone come Monday - also, I would guess they have answerphones - voicemail in the States? - so you could always leave messages to shorten the delay - most Ts don’t seem to answer their phones directly anyway so you end up having to leave a message. Or you could send emails? Also I’d seriously advise you to arrange appointments with several different Ts, don’t just restrict yourself to one at a time, you can waste a lot of precious healing time that way waiting for them to get back to you, to arrange appointments (usually days if not weeks ahead) and it would be good anyway to check out a few just to get a feel for the process.
Yeah it’s a pain having to rehash the stories - having seen so many Ts now I get really bored of it and end up trotting it out like I’m talking about someone else. Although what I did up until the last two new Ts was send an email with an outline of my problems and what I was looking for from a therapist - that way they already had some background info about me and we didn’t have to go through the tedious rigmarole of the ‘well what can I do for you’ type of conversation. And also it gave me a really good indication of the calibre of the T by how they responded to what I’d said in the email - an awful lot of them glossed over my most serious issue (it being a tad uncommon and therefore not in the text books lol) and that told me pretty clearly that they weren’t actually listening to me or didn’t take me as seriously as I needed them to.
I have to say it’s become quite hard for me to work out what therapeutic approach would be best for me - I’ve gone from CBT at one extreme all the way through person-centred, humanistic/integrative, gestalt, creative therapy, relational, and attachment based therapy, to the other extreme, psychodynamic psychoanalytic. At the end of the day I suspect that the approach is much less of a factor than the actual person of the T - their experience (that’s a definite requirement!) and the way they relate - probably a deeply subjective thing. I do know now though that I wouldn’t go near anyone with any kind of CBT training, and anyone with only a few years’ experience definitely doesn’t make my short list!
Well I’m now in the position of having had first sessions with three new Ts, with second appointments lined up - so with a lot of luck and probably a fair bit of compromise on my part, I will hopefully be starting therapy proper again soon. Touch wood. Last two times I said that it all blew up in my face so if I say it really quietly maybe I’ll get away with it this time. God it’s so exhausting, painful, and downright scary this whole business of trying to find help. Sometimes I wish I was totally helpless so that someone else would be forced to look out for me. But on second thoughts, that was the situation when I was a kid and look where that landed me lol.
I’m glad you’re feeling a bit brighter Jill (there are many times in my life when I’ve been SO grateful for meds, it’s good you’ve got something to help you get through!)
Lots of warm hugs for you
LL
quote:oh, i hope you handled it better, LL.
Lol Jill even now three months later when I drive past her office I get this momentary pang of wistful longing, a little voice whispers ‘I could be in there now, could be well and truly on my way into healing therapy’ and I catch myself and have to shake my head wtf? I really liked her in the first session and after that it was crap all the way, so how come I’m secretly mooning over not being in her life??? Something about her must have really gotten to me, but for the life of me I can’t place it and don’t understand it, some kind of emotional pull of which I was completely unaware and still don’t get why I have these sad feelings about her when 99% of me knows totally that she is poison. Transference or what??? And for weeks afterwards I kept having these sudden fantasies, out of nowhere, of being able to go back to her and just get on with therapy as if she’s actually waiting for ME to come back rather than that she sent me away... so I completely understand your writing to ask T3 to take you back that’s not bad handling at all it’s something you needed to do (though her response was rubbish - at least you took it all the way and got to really know how in the wrong SHE is - imagine if you’d just accepted her email and didn’t pursue it, you’d be putting yourself through even more hell now than you’re in!)
Yeah, like with your T3 mine couldn’t handle conflict - but she had it down to a fine art how to devastate someone who dared to oppose her - no way could what she did be contested ethically she’s far too clever and smooth an operator to be caught out like that (though I reckon she shouldn’t have charged me for the ‘termination’ session, seeing as how she spent most of the session invalidating everything I was saying and telling me she ‘couldn’t’ work with me, it hardly counts as therapy does it?)
Actually I do know at least one of the things that really drew me to her - that air of quiet confidence, of her genuinely believing she knew what she was doing, that sense of inner strength that I seem to be a sucker for - someone who knows more and better than me and is prepared to use that knowledge to help me... Well it seems that that quiet confidence is actually self centred arrogance and rigid adherence to always being in the right, but even knowing that doesn’t stop me being attracted to it, like iron filings to a magnet. I think I got myself suckered by her whole persona appealing to my ‘please someone just tell me what to do’ desperation and that’s why her subsequent rejection of me (no other way to put it really) really did the damage, the whole stern punishing authority figure set up, the adult who knows all the rules pretty clearly sending the message that oh boy have you broken the rules big time, so big time that there’s no way back to grace and favour for you kiddo! Gah I hate what I’m finding out about myself with this, I hate that it makes me so dependent on the goodwill of someone else to become whole.
Hey it’s really funny, but reading your comments about women I have to ask myself too, whether this is a gender thing. After finishing with previous T (of six months) who was a man, I decided that I really needed a female T - had this idea that women are more nurturing and caring and kind and in touch with emotions, more able to go deeply and with more understanding into feelings than men (and also, the whole shame thing to do with physical stuff, talking to a MAN about it oh no ick ick ick). Well now I’m not so sure - maybe I’ve been compensating for my own prejudices (it’s the women in my family who were the evil ones, between them my grandmother, mother and stepmother really did a fantastic number on me - while the men, my grandfather, father and brother - were the kinder nicer ones (though weak as piss at the same time). But I have to admit that personally I find girls generally more spiteful and petty and downright nasty than boys (sorry ladies, I don’t mean ANY offence to anyone, this is just me and my internal set up and I’m pretty sure it has a lot more to do with how I perceive myself than with how girls really are.) But it makes it all so damn confusing trying to figure out why Ts act and react as they do and trying to work out whether my reactions to a T are because of who they really are or whether it’s more to do with what’s going on in me - makes it so hard to choose the right T.
Well the gender thing is academic right now anyway because the only half way decent Ts I’ve managed to unearth in my seemingly endless quest are men - initially I restricted myself only to women but pretty soon had to start looking at male T’s profiles because there just weren’t the experienced Ts or ones without those horrible letters CBT in their profiles amongst the women. I guess there are pluses and drawbacks with both genders. *sigh*
Anyway Jill good on you for feeling like looking out another T - even if it’s the weekend you can still research them as much as you can on internet, really scour the registers and look up websites and compare approaches and draw up a short list of Ts to phone come Monday - also, I would guess they have answerphones - voicemail in the States? - so you could always leave messages to shorten the delay - most Ts don’t seem to answer their phones directly anyway so you end up having to leave a message. Or you could send emails? Also I’d seriously advise you to arrange appointments with several different Ts, don’t just restrict yourself to one at a time, you can waste a lot of precious healing time that way waiting for them to get back to you, to arrange appointments (usually days if not weeks ahead) and it would be good anyway to check out a few just to get a feel for the process.
Yeah it’s a pain having to rehash the stories - having seen so many Ts now I get really bored of it and end up trotting it out like I’m talking about someone else. Although what I did up until the last two new Ts was send an email with an outline of my problems and what I was looking for from a therapist - that way they already had some background info about me and we didn’t have to go through the tedious rigmarole of the ‘well what can I do for you’ type of conversation. And also it gave me a really good indication of the calibre of the T by how they responded to what I’d said in the email - an awful lot of them glossed over my most serious issue (it being a tad uncommon and therefore not in the text books lol) and that told me pretty clearly that they weren’t actually listening to me or didn’t take me as seriously as I needed them to.
I have to say it’s become quite hard for me to work out what therapeutic approach would be best for me - I’ve gone from CBT at one extreme all the way through person-centred, humanistic/integrative, gestalt, creative therapy, relational, and attachment based therapy, to the other extreme, psychodynamic psychoanalytic. At the end of the day I suspect that the approach is much less of a factor than the actual person of the T - their experience (that’s a definite requirement!) and the way they relate - probably a deeply subjective thing. I do know now though that I wouldn’t go near anyone with any kind of CBT training, and anyone with only a few years’ experience definitely doesn’t make my short list!
Well I’m now in the position of having had first sessions with three new Ts, with second appointments lined up - so with a lot of luck and probably a fair bit of compromise on my part, I will hopefully be starting therapy proper again soon. Touch wood. Last two times I said that it all blew up in my face so if I say it really quietly maybe I’ll get away with it this time. God it’s so exhausting, painful, and downright scary this whole business of trying to find help. Sometimes I wish I was totally helpless so that someone else would be forced to look out for me. But on second thoughts, that was the situation when I was a kid and look where that landed me lol.
I’m glad you’re feeling a bit brighter Jill (there are many times in my life when I’ve been SO grateful for meds, it’s good you’ve got something to help you get through!)
Lots of warm hugs for you
LL
LL, you may need therapy, but, you sure seem sound to me!! you crack me up, i have been holding onto my sides reading this...i know, ya gotta laugh at it, coz crying all the time about it just gets downright dull!!
your quoteL 'Something about her must have really gotten to me, but for the life of me I can’t place it and don’t understand it, some kind of emotional pull of which I was completely unaware and still don’t get why I have these sad feelings about her when 99% of me knows totally that she is poison.'
yes, mine was so poison, i even saw it at times with her but refused to really admit it to myself, i wanted SO MUCH for it to work out. kind of like the blind refusal to accept that i grew up in a ZOO and suffered repeated trauma...i thought it 'didn't happen' if i could dissassociate it away and excuse the abusers...what a moron!! y'no, maybe i learned through t3 to pay attention to red flags....i used to think i was overly sensitive, but really, i am UNDERLY sensitive, as i ALLOW red flags to go unchecked as i am so desparate for the savior to help me!!
agh!!
your quote: "Yeah, like with your T3 mine couldn’t handle conflict - but she had it down to a fine art how to devastate someone who dared to oppose her - no way could what she did be contested ethically she’s far too clever and smooth an operator to be caught out like that (though I reckon she shouldn’t have charged me for the ‘termination’ session, seeing as how she spent most of the session invalidating everything I was saying and telling me she ‘couldn’t’ work with me, it hardly counts as therapy does it?)
yes, mine was pretty crafty at putting it all on me, and i was more than happy to accept it...can you believe, i actually wrote her an email after her battering apologizing for being so difficult!!! WTF!!!!!!!!! i totally bought her bs. by the way, she didn't even TRY to charge me for the battering. probably coz my husband was there, she was intimidated with him...he's a BIG GUY!! and initially refused to meet with both of us. but no, this battering was 'on the house'!!
your quote: "Well it seems that that quiet confidence is actually self centred arrogance and rigid adherence to always being in the right, but even knowing that doesn’t stop me being attracted to it, like iron filings to a magnet. I think I got myself suckered by her whole persona appealing to my ‘please someone just tell me what to do’ desperation and that’s why her subsequent rejection of me (no other way to put it really) really did the damage, the whole stern punishing authority figure set up, the adult who knows all the rules pretty clearly sending the message that oh boy have you broken the rules big time, so big time that there’s no way back to grace and favour for you kiddo! Gah I hate what I’m finding out about myself with this, I hate that it makes me so dependent on the goodwill of someone else to become whole."
oh, i just want to vomit right along with you on the above....i HATE what i find out about myself....1) i apologize for breathing 2) i excuse the abuse as if i deserve it 3) a stern, punishing, demeaning authority figure is just an invitation i can't seem to refuse!
agh!!! nauseating what i learn, and i do it over and over and over and over and over...."please, are you comfortable walking over me?? could i get you sharper spikes???"
vomit vomit vomit vomit...
LL, you are a crack up, i am grateful i am starting to laugh a bit at it...altho i am no where near seeing another t. i know what you mean about trotting out the story...i say it all with such ease that it rolls off my tongue as if i were ordering at a drive through. that alone makes me look odd, such casual conversation about perverted sexual stuff...it doesn't even phase me anymore....and then remembering what you said, and somehow, it all the minutia, getting them to convey that although it appears to be no big deal, you are really deep down a seriously BROKEN INDIVIDUAL! geez!! i feel like i am auditioning for someone!! please, take me!!!! let me pay you to f with my brain and crush me and tell me it is all my fault!!!
i sometimes wonder if all this hoop-la is for naught, and i ought to just get a good book on attachment and histerionic and whatever else i have and read it outloud on a recorder and listen to it and pretend someone else is telling me this stuff.
it seems more trouble to find a f-ing therapist than it is to just FORGET THIS WHOLE DEAL AND GET ON OVER IT ALREADY!!! so your mom is a f-ing bitch, you sister had s with you, your dad had no spine, you lived a lie all your life, what of it, jill!! get on OVER YOURSELF and have a nice day!!!!
that's where i am, folks...no denying it!! i think i have given up on a t, and i'm just gonna hang out with y'all and pick up what y'all reveal in your sessions and be that little turtle all wholed up in its shell, coz...life SUX, then you die!! so, enjoy what you can, and get on over yourself, jill....many had it worse.
and maybe get a really good anti-depressant and anti-anxiety pill and call it a day!
f. back to this old stance. jill
your quoteL 'Something about her must have really gotten to me, but for the life of me I can’t place it and don’t understand it, some kind of emotional pull of which I was completely unaware and still don’t get why I have these sad feelings about her when 99% of me knows totally that she is poison.'
yes, mine was so poison, i even saw it at times with her but refused to really admit it to myself, i wanted SO MUCH for it to work out. kind of like the blind refusal to accept that i grew up in a ZOO and suffered repeated trauma...i thought it 'didn't happen' if i could dissassociate it away and excuse the abusers...what a moron!! y'no, maybe i learned through t3 to pay attention to red flags....i used to think i was overly sensitive, but really, i am UNDERLY sensitive, as i ALLOW red flags to go unchecked as i am so desparate for the savior to help me!!
agh!!
your quote: "Yeah, like with your T3 mine couldn’t handle conflict - but she had it down to a fine art how to devastate someone who dared to oppose her - no way could what she did be contested ethically she’s far too clever and smooth an operator to be caught out like that (though I reckon she shouldn’t have charged me for the ‘termination’ session, seeing as how she spent most of the session invalidating everything I was saying and telling me she ‘couldn’t’ work with me, it hardly counts as therapy does it?)
yes, mine was pretty crafty at putting it all on me, and i was more than happy to accept it...can you believe, i actually wrote her an email after her battering apologizing for being so difficult!!! WTF!!!!!!!!! i totally bought her bs. by the way, she didn't even TRY to charge me for the battering. probably coz my husband was there, she was intimidated with him...he's a BIG GUY!! and initially refused to meet with both of us. but no, this battering was 'on the house'!!
your quote: "Well it seems that that quiet confidence is actually self centred arrogance and rigid adherence to always being in the right, but even knowing that doesn’t stop me being attracted to it, like iron filings to a magnet. I think I got myself suckered by her whole persona appealing to my ‘please someone just tell me what to do’ desperation and that’s why her subsequent rejection of me (no other way to put it really) really did the damage, the whole stern punishing authority figure set up, the adult who knows all the rules pretty clearly sending the message that oh boy have you broken the rules big time, so big time that there’s no way back to grace and favour for you kiddo! Gah I hate what I’m finding out about myself with this, I hate that it makes me so dependent on the goodwill of someone else to become whole."
oh, i just want to vomit right along with you on the above....i HATE what i find out about myself....1) i apologize for breathing 2) i excuse the abuse as if i deserve it 3) a stern, punishing, demeaning authority figure is just an invitation i can't seem to refuse!
agh!!! nauseating what i learn, and i do it over and over and over and over and over...."please, are you comfortable walking over me?? could i get you sharper spikes???"
vomit vomit vomit vomit...
LL, you are a crack up, i am grateful i am starting to laugh a bit at it...altho i am no where near seeing another t. i know what you mean about trotting out the story...i say it all with such ease that it rolls off my tongue as if i were ordering at a drive through. that alone makes me look odd, such casual conversation about perverted sexual stuff...it doesn't even phase me anymore....and then remembering what you said, and somehow, it all the minutia, getting them to convey that although it appears to be no big deal, you are really deep down a seriously BROKEN INDIVIDUAL! geez!! i feel like i am auditioning for someone!! please, take me!!!! let me pay you to f with my brain and crush me and tell me it is all my fault!!!
i sometimes wonder if all this hoop-la is for naught, and i ought to just get a good book on attachment and histerionic and whatever else i have and read it outloud on a recorder and listen to it and pretend someone else is telling me this stuff.
it seems more trouble to find a f-ing therapist than it is to just FORGET THIS WHOLE DEAL AND GET ON OVER IT ALREADY!!! so your mom is a f-ing bitch, you sister had s with you, your dad had no spine, you lived a lie all your life, what of it, jill!! get on OVER YOURSELF and have a nice day!!!!
that's where i am, folks...no denying it!! i think i have given up on a t, and i'm just gonna hang out with y'all and pick up what y'all reveal in your sessions and be that little turtle all wholed up in its shell, coz...life SUX, then you die!! so, enjoy what you can, and get on over yourself, jill....many had it worse.
and maybe get a really good anti-depressant and anti-anxiety pill and call it a day!
f. back to this old stance. jill
uv, this is so helpful, i am going to google search some of this to find out more about that three session 'trial'. man, what if on session five they decide that their decision on session three was wrong, what do they do then??? (read, how long do i have to hide 'it') whatever 'it' is, as surely 'it' got me terminated....who is ever going to tell me what 'it' is?? and how long do you have to keep it together before you can reach that point in therapy of really being who you are .... the fully broken self ... and have someone accept you fully in that moment and have that be the chrysalis point of utopia that your inner child needs to heal, and realize they are not so 'bad' after all, and that they can be worthy of love, and love, and they are fully whole regardless of whatever is going on about them, and be fast forward on the road to recovery.
it seems if i could just get to that point of being fully understood, and fully accepted, that i could move forward. and i don't need to hit anyone about this, or turn my head three times in a circle and spit out green venom!!! i just need to be emotionally 'held' in that place, for a long and meaningful 'moment', to feel that it is real, and the walls around me are down and i am safe and, maybe a few trumpets play, and then, like magic, the 'spell' is lifted.
ok, hallucinating enough for ya!! ahhhh!!! i almost thought it was real.
thanks uv, you are one well read woman. and a kind and gentle spirit.
thanks, and i do think honesty would be so much kinder than the horror of not 'getting' why it just won't work out.
TRUTH, all you t's out there, don't make promises you can't keep, and if you have too many borderlines, just go ahead and tell me and i'll take my party elsewhere, don't just add injury to my trauma. you rat bastard, t3!!
jill
it seems if i could just get to that point of being fully understood, and fully accepted, that i could move forward. and i don't need to hit anyone about this, or turn my head three times in a circle and spit out green venom!!! i just need to be emotionally 'held' in that place, for a long and meaningful 'moment', to feel that it is real, and the walls around me are down and i am safe and, maybe a few trumpets play, and then, like magic, the 'spell' is lifted.
ok, hallucinating enough for ya!! ahhhh!!! i almost thought it was real.
thanks uv, you are one well read woman. and a kind and gentle spirit.
thanks, and i do think honesty would be so much kinder than the horror of not 'getting' why it just won't work out.
TRUTH, all you t's out there, don't make promises you can't keep, and if you have too many borderlines, just go ahead and tell me and i'll take my party elsewhere, don't just add injury to my trauma. you rat bastard, t3!!
jill
thanks, uv, i am digesting all you have to say. i would love to know what is the specifics they are looking for in me to determine if they will take me on, and for me to know when and how they decide. not that i am trying to cheat the system, i just would like the structure to be clear to both parties. i can see they don't want to get too loaded down with borderlines, or a specific situation that may be too close to home (mother killed by drunk driver and you drink, kind of stuff) but, just WHEN are we clear and open to BE. lots of catholic guilt playing in my mind, but i feel guilty if i am not upfront, and maybe i need to taper that. but, i am a 'go ahead and pull off the bandaid' type girl, and, with an experience t, THEY need to be the ones to take the baby steps in and see what you can handle. but, i digress, i see the injury you incurred by your overly aggressive questioner, and understand your desire to ease in. for a really sorry metaphor, it's like, you don't start a first date with a story about being divorced three times...ewh, but i would feel so dishonest if i didn't POST that on my forehead...hmmmmm, seems clear i have issues here!!! thanks, uv, now get back to work! jill
Hi there Jill and UV sorry i meant to reply ages ago but got caught up in spinning out about seeing new Ts (no change there then
UV that's really useful the stuff you are able to tell us about the process - and it's really helpful to hear about your experiences as well. It's a bit unethical don't you think that a PA as a matter of course does three aseesement sessions but doesn't tell you? Like you I would have assumed that the therapy starts right from the beginning especially if he arranged further appointments. Generally the Ts i've seen have stipulated the first session as a kind of 'getting to know each other' session with the goal of deciding whether client and T want to work together, after that it's supposedly 'proper' therapy (which is why I end up doing at least two sessions, so I can get a feel for how the therapy itself with that particular T is going to work - first session is never enough of an indication.)
With the woman who terminated me, we had already agreed a contract at end of first session so the second two sessions were definitely no longer assessments. She even said things like, i'm really excited about working with you, it's going to be really interesting blah blah and in the confirmation of termination email she sent me (he he that means i get to check TWO of Jill's poll choices) she said 'like you I was optimistic at our first session...' so really it all came down to her not liking the way I was in therapy itself.
I'm glad to have read your comments about assesment though, because one of the new Ts i'm seeing had stipulated that we have two initial sessions, for assessment. I actually saw that as good because one session is never enough to really tell - but after reading your words I realized he was 'asessing' on a much deeper level than any of the other Ts i've seen have done (in fact freaked out thinking oh god he's assessming ME to ses if i'm good enough for this type of therapy! I've always had the view that assessment sessions were for the CLIENT to assess whether the T was good enough, and not vice versa - boy did that set the ground shifting!) I still hold though that to have to hold stuff back, to play some kind of almost social game (don't reveal too much for fear of frightening the other off, and, pretend you're actually more socially adept than you really are by considering their feelings and being all nice and thoughtful and considerate) is counterproductive - though maybe necessary. If a T has to be cajoled or persuaded to take a client on because otherwise they would freak out and not accept you, then there's the chance that also later down the track they will back off. I think for me I need to be as upfront as possible so as then the T at least is taking me on in pretty full knowledge of just how 'difficult' I am. Though I can definitely see the merits of not spilling everything all in one go.
Interesting what you say about instant attachment. Have to admit that's the first time EVER I actually liked a T, usually I have to force myself to tolerate them making myself find things about them that are likeable. Hmm makes me wonder about the second T I liked and from whom I've still heard nothing (into the seventh week now!) In our last session together I tried to check out with her about transference and actually said to her something like 'I think I'm starting to feel attached, and there's lots of transference because I'm swinging between liking and seeing you as good, and suddenly seeing you as really hostile to me'. She seemed ok about it all, talked about transference but that she doesn't work exclusively with it blah blah. But now I'm wondering if maybe by telling her a little bit how I was feeling about HER, that scared her off? Maybe she thought hell I don't want to get involved with some needy attachment injured client that's too much like hard work or something? Who knows, I seriously doubt if I'll ever find out why she hasn't gotten back to me. And that's going to bother me for a LONG time!
Am I right in assuming that with the T who terminated you after the third session you showed him that you were strongly attached already? Did you ever get to read his notes by the way? I ask that because it seems off that other Ts wouldn't take you on, on the basis of his assessment. Says to me he must have written some pretty damning stuff which may not have been terribly accurate. What a world eh if Ts get scared off? Traps for young players alright.
Jill I hope you are still considering finding a new T. Despite all the horror stories (of which there are quite a few happening at the moment I reckon that getting sorted out is not possible done alone, and dealing with the kind of issues we have, having someone trained in dealing precisely with those issues can make all the difference to our healing.
I'll tell you what's struck me lately (like a loads of bricks falling on my head actually - nothing subtle about it) is that all my life I've sought out therapists from the humanistic schools of therapy and avoided like the plague anyone with psychoanalysis in their CV. One of the new Ts i've seen this last week happens to be a psychodynamic psychoanalyst, god knows why I went to see him, desperate I suppose and he was one of the VERY few with years of experience. Anyway, after the first session that's when the bricks fell on my head - I suddenly thought, hell this is EXACTLY what I've been wanting from therapy - someone to not only listen, hear and understand what's going on in me, but someone who actually knows what the hell they are doing, who has a good grasp of the PROCESS itself. Hard to explain except to say that all the other Ts I've seen I never got the sense that they knew any more than me about what was going on, but with this guy I get the sense that he can place the stuff I'm going through into some kind of greater overall context which allows me to stop having to worry about making sense to HIM about what I'm saying. Sorry this is quite hard to explain as I'm only just starting to sort it out for myself. But the point of saying that is that I think UV has got a big point in her advocation of the pyschodynamic approach as being really good for people like us. I'm also inclined to think now, after having seen Ts with not only specific humanistic approaches but also offering a real selection of candy of approaches, that a single orientation which doesn't get contaminated by drawing on bits of this approach and bits of that approach (usually including CBT) can work infintely better. Just my conclusions for me really, based on decades of wasted time and emotional energy trying to get help from Ts who pretty clearly couldn't get a handle on my problems.
Anyway obviously you can only do what you feel is right for you, and if you decide to chuck in the whole therapy lark, I wouldn't blame you
Hope you're hanging in there all the same.
LL
UV that's really useful the stuff you are able to tell us about the process - and it's really helpful to hear about your experiences as well. It's a bit unethical don't you think that a PA as a matter of course does three aseesement sessions but doesn't tell you? Like you I would have assumed that the therapy starts right from the beginning especially if he arranged further appointments. Generally the Ts i've seen have stipulated the first session as a kind of 'getting to know each other' session with the goal of deciding whether client and T want to work together, after that it's supposedly 'proper' therapy (which is why I end up doing at least two sessions, so I can get a feel for how the therapy itself with that particular T is going to work - first session is never enough of an indication.)
With the woman who terminated me, we had already agreed a contract at end of first session so the second two sessions were definitely no longer assessments. She even said things like, i'm really excited about working with you, it's going to be really interesting blah blah and in the confirmation of termination email she sent me (he he that means i get to check TWO of Jill's poll choices
) she said 'like you I was optimistic at our first session...' so really it all came down to her not liking the way I was in therapy itself.I'm glad to have read your comments about assesment though, because one of the new Ts i'm seeing had stipulated that we have two initial sessions, for assessment. I actually saw that as good because one session is never enough to really tell - but after reading your words I realized he was 'asessing' on a much deeper level than any of the other Ts i've seen have done (in fact freaked out thinking oh god he's assessming ME to ses if i'm good enough for this type of therapy! I've always had the view that assessment sessions were for the CLIENT to assess whether the T was good enough, and not vice versa - boy did that set the ground shifting!) I still hold though that to have to hold stuff back, to play some kind of almost social game (don't reveal too much for fear of frightening the other off, and, pretend you're actually more socially adept than you really are by considering their feelings and being all nice and thoughtful and considerate) is counterproductive - though maybe necessary. If a T has to be cajoled or persuaded to take a client on because otherwise they would freak out and not accept you, then there's the chance that also later down the track they will back off. I think for me I need to be as upfront as possible so as then the T at least is taking me on in pretty full knowledge of just how 'difficult' I am. Though I can definitely see the merits of not spilling everything all in one go.
Interesting what you say about instant attachment. Have to admit that's the first time EVER I actually liked a T, usually I have to force myself to tolerate them making myself find things about them that are likeable. Hmm makes me wonder about the second T I liked and from whom I've still heard nothing (into the seventh week now!) In our last session together I tried to check out with her about transference and actually said to her something like 'I think I'm starting to feel attached, and there's lots of transference because I'm swinging between liking and seeing you as good, and suddenly seeing you as really hostile to me'. She seemed ok about it all, talked about transference but that she doesn't work exclusively with it blah blah. But now I'm wondering if maybe by telling her a little bit how I was feeling about HER, that scared her off? Maybe she thought hell I don't want to get involved with some needy attachment injured client that's too much like hard work or something? Who knows, I seriously doubt if I'll ever find out why she hasn't gotten back to me. And that's going to bother me for a LONG time!
Am I right in assuming that with the T who terminated you after the third session you showed him that you were strongly attached already? Did you ever get to read his notes by the way? I ask that because it seems off that other Ts wouldn't take you on, on the basis of his assessment. Says to me he must have written some pretty damning stuff which may not have been terribly accurate. What a world eh if Ts get scared off? Traps for young players alright.
Jill I hope you are still considering finding a new T. Despite all the horror stories (of which there are quite a few happening at the moment
I reckon that getting sorted out is not possible done alone, and dealing with the kind of issues we have, having someone trained in dealing precisely with those issues can make all the difference to our healing. I'll tell you what's struck me lately (like a loads of bricks falling on my head actually - nothing subtle about it) is that all my life I've sought out therapists from the humanistic schools of therapy and avoided like the plague anyone with psychoanalysis in their CV. One of the new Ts i've seen this last week happens to be a psychodynamic psychoanalyst, god knows why I went to see him, desperate I suppose and he was one of the VERY few with years of experience. Anyway, after the first session that's when the bricks fell on my head - I suddenly thought, hell this is EXACTLY what I've been wanting from therapy - someone to not only listen, hear and understand what's going on in me, but someone who actually knows what the hell they are doing, who has a good grasp of the PROCESS itself. Hard to explain except to say that all the other Ts I've seen I never got the sense that they knew any more than me about what was going on, but with this guy I get the sense that he can place the stuff I'm going through into some kind of greater overall context which allows me to stop having to worry about making sense to HIM about what I'm saying. Sorry this is quite hard to explain as I'm only just starting to sort it out for myself. But the point of saying that is that I think UV has got a big point in her advocation of the pyschodynamic approach as being really good for people like us. I'm also inclined to think now, after having seen Ts with not only specific humanistic approaches but also offering a real selection of candy of approaches, that a single orientation which doesn't get contaminated by drawing on bits of this approach and bits of that approach (usually including CBT) can work infintely better. Just my conclusions for me really, based on decades of wasted time and emotional energy trying to get help from Ts who pretty clearly couldn't get a handle on my problems.
Anyway obviously you can only do what you feel is right for you, and if you decide to chuck in the whole therapy lark, I wouldn't blame you
Hope you're hanging in there all the same.
LL
Aw thanks Draggers! Your support is amazing. Ha ha everyone can blame you for encouraging me, now that I seem to be back and posting again.
Yeah psychodynamic therapy seems to be the way to go - i'd never really heard of it let alone considered it before joining this forum - I am so glad you guys are here.
LL
Yeah psychodynamic therapy seems to be the way to go - i'd never really heard of it let alone considered it before joining this forum - I am so glad you guys are here.
LL