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Hello all I’m new here, though I’ve read through a lot of the threads and have found so much in them that has been helpful to me.

Now I feel I want to post some of my issues with therapy, well specifically the aftermath of today’s session.

I’ve been in and out of therapy over the past 40 odd years, and have never been helped (in fact some of the courses of therapy I’ve done have ended up being destructive to me.) This time around I really shopped hard for the ‘right’ person, actually saw four different therapists on the trot, one of whom I stayed with for 2 sessions, one for 7 - but having gotten a bit wiser about what I think I need from a therapist realized that none of those four were going to be able to help me. In the end I found the therapist I’m currently seeing (have been with him for 5 months now, twice weekly.)

Ok given that I’ve had so much experience of useless therapists (sorry but I have to say that, I put up with lousy therapy for years because I always accepted it was something in me that was stopping me getting helped, now I believe it was the therapists who were at best inadequate) I’m constantly struggling with current T to be understood and though I don’t believe he does yet actually understand the nature of my problems I at least see that he really makes an effort to understand, that alone is worth gold to me!

So today I go to therapy feeling in a really bad place, full of impotent rage and frustration all directed at myself, really tearing myself apart because the ‘I am to blame for all my problems, it’s all my fault’ belief was in full strength and I struggle really hard to oppose that internal set up. Telling T as best as I can about the ‘it’s all my fault’ set up, spitting nails and being really irritable and snarly and defensive - and he was ok with that, he’s very good so far in that I’ve been able to get annoyed at him and say critical angry things to him (like ‘you STILL don’t f***ing understand!!!!’) but then at the end of the session he asked whether it had been helpful, whether I had taken anything from it and I said, no - because it hadn’t, I hadn’t felt helped or even understood, and I wasn’t feeling any better or hopeful or positive at all. At which he looked quite - disappointed I think - and said this happens every 3 or 4 sessions where he thinks there’s progress and I come along and say no nothing has changed I don’t feel that there’s any progress at all. It wasn’t an accusation by him, more of a statement but the way he looked and all his body language made me feel like, oh it’s my fault (naturally!) I’m supposed to be getting better, I’m supposed to be changing and feeling progress and I’m not and thinking about it afterwards I realize I’m suddenly terrified that he thinks he can’t help me, that he’s going to tell me that it’s no good that he can’t actually help me after all (translated in my head as ‘I can’t be helped’) and that is spinning me out right now.

I know the advice would be to talk to him about it, and I will in next session (much as I’d rather not mention it, keep quiet and hope I’m wrong type of thing, talk about it and it might just make it true!) But right now it’s making me think of all the ‘failed’ therapy I’ve done over the years and that I am ‘incurable’ after all, that it’s something so very wrong with me that so many different therapists haven’t been able to help me. And here I am with the first therapist in my life whom I think CAN help me, and he’s thinking that after all he can’t.

Sorry for the long post, sorry also for anticipating the obvious advice anyone could give me - I guess I just wanted to spill the fear to people who might have experienced something similar.
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LL,

While I was reading your post, I almost felt as if I might be looking in a mirror. After I finished reading - I decided I would like to share some things.

quote:
I’ve been in and out of therapy over the past 40 odd years, and have never been helped (in fact some of the courses of therapy I’ve done have ended up being destructive to me.)


Well, I have also been in and out of therapy for about the past 30 years and have also experienced some destruction. Frowner

quote:
‘I am to blame for all my problems, it’s all my fault’ belief was in full strength and I struggle really hard to oppose that internal set up.


I also struggle with this belief and have worked on it over and over again and for some odd reason I can not get it to change. Confused I am not sure what it is that I am not doing but I continue to work on it, I guess with the hope that one day it / I will be different.

quote:
I’m supposed to be getting better, I’m supposed to be changing and feeling progress and I’m not...


We are awfully hard on ourselves! I think we need to find a way to remove the word 'supposed' from our vocabulary, because when we use this word we put an awful lot of pressure on ourselves!

quote:
But right now it’s making me think of all the ‘failed’ therapy I’ve done over the years and that I am ‘incurable’ after all, that it’s something so very wrong with me that so many different therapists haven’t been able to help me. And here I am with the first therapist in my life whom I think CAN help me, and he’s thinking that after all he can’t.


I have been working with a T for almost 2 years now and she has not given up on me, even though at times I believe she will because I, too, feel 'incurable'. But you know - that isn't true. We are 'curable' if you want to put it that way. I rather think of it as growth and as long as I am growing emotionally & spiritually than I must be getting better (even though I sure don't feel it very often). My T continues to stick by my side because she believes in me, but I can not even tell you the number of times I have argued with her about that! Big Grin

I just want you to know that you are not alone and I really feel like we are walking in similar therapy shoes. Therapy isn't easy by any means and maybe we are just slow learners. But we can not give up on ourselves. So, let me remind you that 'it is NOT your fault and you are NOT to blame'!!! At the same time, I will continue to tell myself that too!

Maybe it just took all these years for us to find the right T, just think of all the wisdom we have hidden inside!!! Big Grin Let him know your fear, my T knows mine and I think that is one of the reasons we are still working together. She KNOWS what I don't... Like "It's not my fault, I am not to blame and I am 'curable'..." If he is the right T for you, he will know those things about you too! Smiler

KS
Hello KS

Thanks so much for your reply - it made me feel a whole lot better knowing that someone else has the same fear and the same self-blaming set up. I can really relate to it when you say

quote:
I also struggle with this belief and have worked on it over and over again and for some odd reason I can not get it to change. I am not sure what it is that I am not doing but I continue to work on it, I guess with the hope that one day it / I will be different.


Me too! It’s literally been years I’ve been trying to change this belief system and often think YES great I’ve understood it this is what is going on now it will start to loosen its hold and then whammo x amount of time down the track there it is again, totally unchanged and me stuck in the same thinking/responding patterns. It’s what makes me so frustratedly FURIOUS because I KNOW I’m not to ‘blame’ but as there’s so much blame there I instinctively want to dump it all on someone else especially whoever made me think like that in the first place - only it’s my fault they treated me like that in the first place anyway ha ha. Nice little self perpetuating circle to be stuck in. Like you I live in hope that if I keep working away at it one day I will see things differently.

Interesting you also use the word ‘destruction’ - that’s exactly the outcome I had because of some of my past therapists - where I ended up with an even more messed up mind than before starting with them and at times almost dangerously lost touch with reality because their approach and way of working was pushing a ‘reality’ that not only negated mine but made it clear that ‘my’ reality was wrong. Have to admit I’m still really angry about what some of them managed to do to me (ha ha but of course basically I believe it was my fault for ‘letting’ them do that.) Just wondered what your thoughts on destructive therapists were?

Hey I’m glad you have a T who sticks by you, that must make it a lot easier to feel able to go into all this stuck stuff. I think that’s what I’m frightened of now, that because I don’t feel that I’m growing or changing in any way (though personally I’m not expecting to have changed much in only 5 months - this set up’s been there all my life after all!) that my T is thinking that maybe he doesn’t have the skills/experience to help me. Suppose I’d better spell out all my fear to him next session or this will just get in the way - ugh it feels like I’m going to be begging him to please don’t abandon me and it doesn’t take much to work out the connections there does it :sigh: Hm I think I’ve only just now in writing that realized it’s about abandonment after all.


quote:
So, let me remind you that 'it is NOT your fault and you are NOT to blame'!!! At the same time, I will continue to tell myself that too!


I like that. You can remind me I’m not to blame and I’ll remind you! Maybe we’ll eventually believe it if someone else keeps telling us. Funny how we both accept it’s wrong, or rather incorrect to have this kind of belief, yet it rolls on with impunity regardless.

quote:
Maybe it just took all these years for us to find the right T,


That’s my thinking too - which is why I’m freaking out so much at potentially losing this one, after finally finding one who really is doing his best to understand and help me. I just hope it’s my own internal set up making me see him as wanting to give up on me and not something I’ve genuinely picked up on.

Thanks again for your kind and supportive words.
LL,

quote:
Interesting you also use the word ‘destruction’ - that’s exactly the outcome I had because of some of my past therapists -


Yes, destruction... Mad Let me try to explain some of that. I have had some T's that pushed their belief systems on me - and their belief systems were as bad as mine or even worse! I don't believe they did it intentionally but none the less it was not a good thing. One had this idea that we all have choices... And yes we do! But she had me believing that events in my life happened due to my choices. Like choosing to be in that place or with that person... Maybe the events that have happened in my late teenage and adult years could have something to do with my choices. But as a child, I was believing that everything was my fault as it was and then she would remind me that I made the choices... Okay, so at 10 years old - I decided that I wanted to have an adult relationship? Eeker I don't think so - I really believed I was some sort of monster and I was sick beyond measure! There are many instances that were twisted and not for the positive. I almost believed that some of my T's reinforced my own negative beliefs about myself. My T now talks about choices also - but she is really trying to push her belief that I AM NOT AT FAULT into my head... Why am I working against that? I do not know. But we spent one session where I kept telling her "it was not my fault" and she would say "that's right, it was not your fault" or "I know, it was not your fault". Every now and then we have to do that again.

[QUOTE I just hope it’s my own internal set up making me see him as wanting to give up on me and not something I’ve genuinely picked up on.
[/QUOTE]

I'm with you, I also hope it is just your internal set up...! Big Grin And after you discuss this with him maybe you'll get your answer. When do you see him next? Let me know how it goes! I have to stop here, got things to do - but if I get a chance I will try to share more...

KS
quote:
My T now talks about choices also - but she is really trying to push her belief that I AM NOT AT FAULT into my head... Why am I working against that? I do not know.


Hi Lamplighter, welcome to the forums! I'm glad you've decided to post, I don't have much to add because I think KS has said it so well, but I did want to say welcome.

KS,
There's a really good reason you're working against it NOT being your fault. I'm cutting and pasting from an old post of mine below, you can find the whole thing here: Really, really mad

quote:
When there is ongoing trauma as children, the single strongest characteristic is our complete powerlessness to stop it. Powerlessness is a helpless feeling and can lead to despair because it brings you face to face with the fact that you can't do anything but endure. And realizing that could put you over the edge. So do you know what most traumatized kids do? They make it somehow about the person they are being responsible or causing it, because then, maybe, just maybe, they could control it. If you could just figure out what you were doing wrong, then it would stop. The problem is, we grow up, it stops, but we still believe we did something. I believed for years (decades, I'm old!) that I was intriniscally evil and repulsive, that I deserved the abuse from my father and as a matter of fact that my wanting affection and closeness and to be held presented a horrible temptation to my father and MADE him abuse me. Those are lies straight from the pit of hell. But they gave me hope that I could stop it, with the added benefit on preserving a "good" father. Can you see how it would work? That maybe your determination to make this somehow about a lack in you, of strength, of courage, of perserverence, of fortitude might be an attempt to retain control in what was an uncontrollable and as a matter of fact, an out of control, situation?


AG
AG helllo and thanks very much for the welcome.


KS hello again and thanks for replying - you explained really well how some of your therapists have been destructive, it’s amazing how well that fits my own experiences. I especially have issues with therapists who say all the right what I call pyschobabble things like ‘the point of this therapy is for you to feel whatever you feel in here and it would be really good if you get angry even with me’ and one day I DO feel angry at this particular therapist and try and tell her about it and whammo ‘DON’T YOU SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT’. Hm. In fact her belief system within the therapy was that she was all powerful, all knowing all understanding and always in the right and so long as I accepted that we would get along just fine. So I’d be trying to tell her things that were going on in me and she would be telling me that the way I was describing my experience was wrong and that I ought to be seeing things differently. Which I fundamentally agreed with anyway because I knew it was my perceptions of things that were causing my problems (as well as everything always being my fault anyway lol).

I think you are very forgiving in saying that you don’t think these therapists did it intentionally. I guess I also don’t really see them as intentionally setting out to mess with me - but I’m really really angry that they consistently refused to step out of their own extreme limitations to see that what they were doing was actually harmful to me (objectively, potentially harmful to every client!) My very first conversation with the therapist I was describing above went like this:

Me - I think everyone is looking at me, talking about me, judging me (bad me paranoia in fact, though I didn’t know the labels at the time)

Her - That’s rubbish!

Me - Speechless.

Her - (apparently seeing look on my face) oh well what I mean is that I don’t believe it. People AREN’T all looking at you. Added quickly (on further seeing some look on my face) but I do believe that you believe it.

Had I acted on my own instinctive response to that, I would have walked out there and then and saved myself the breakdown that resulted after 18 months of this type of invalidation.

I’d be interested to hear your other thoughts on destructive or less than helpful therapists. I’ve seen so many inadequate and even destructive therapists over the course of my life that I no longer blanketly accept that if I sense something is not going right with them then it has to be down to me and my faulty set up in some way (but it’s very hard to take that stand because of my fundamental ‘everything is all always my fault’ experiences.)

You are so lucky to have a therapist who keeps the knowledge that it’s NOT YOUR FAULT in her head for you

quote:
She KNOWS what I don't... Like "It's not my fault, I am not to blame and I am 'curable'..."


That’s what I automatically assume exists in a therapist, that knowledge of my own health which doesn’t yet exist in my own head - and I tend to have blind faith that the therapist actually does know the ‘good’ truth about me that I am trying to discover for myself. That’s why I ended up getting so fouled up by previous therapists, because even if they did ‘know’ they sure as hell weren’t helping me to find it out!

Well I’m sorry I’ve rambled on here a bit. It’s a couple of hours until my next session where I’m going to have to talk to my T about my thinking he’s going to tell me he can’t help me and I’m really freaking out about it all underneath. :hides under chair:
Hi LL and welcome to the forum Smiler

Thank you for your interesting thread. I was horrified to read your first conversation with that therapist, shocking to think that anybody with that frame of mind should ever be allowed to practice. And of course we think that we are the ones with the problem . .. although your instinct was right all along.

And as for thinking our Ts are going to give up on us - I am surprised that mine hasn't yet. (I would certainly have given up on me) but she continues to have faith in me - especialy in the times when I don't. And that helps more than any therapy can sometimes.

starfish
Hello Starfish and thanks for your comments and welcome.

Have to admit that I’m glad you commented on the first words my former T said to me - my own sense of it all is (STILL) oh it’s not that bad I’m making a big meal of it I know what she really meant - never mind that I am still impotently FURIOUS about it (and this after 24 years!) I think it’s that I’m so used to expecting people to say that my perceptions of things are wrong or incorrect that it floors me when people actually see what I see. So thanks so much for your words, they mean a lot to me.

I’m beginning to understand what you mean in the second part of your reply and what some other members on the forum have often talked about. I was pretty convinced that my T was thinking that he really couldn’t help me anymore and went in today determined to talk about it. Which I did and got the wished for response (thank god!) He definitely wasn’t thinking that at all and I’ve come away feeling so much more positive about the whole therapy thing. I think there has been a real shift inside my head so that now I believe therapy with him is really working. And I know the reason for that is simply that he gives me the space, time and most importantly the encouragement to express whatever I feel, and say whatever I want to without having to anticipate the usual negative critical or negating responses I’ve always been used to. (Never mind that the judge in my own head supplies all the crtical and negative comments regardless!)

Hasn’t changed anything in my conscious awareness of things or myself, but something is definitely shifting around in the back of my mind and that makes me feel like ‘at last, I’ve found a therapist who is actually helping me’.

Now I can get on with the work of therapy lol.

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