Starfish - big hugs for you - a party at the summit sounds like a pretty good idea, let's hope it's SOON.
LL
STRM,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am totally worn out by the whole thing. I still don't know if I'll call T tomorrow, but you're right, it's good that I have the option.
LL,
Thank you SO SO much for your reply. It's SO very comforting to know I'm not alone with this feeling, and your observations are incredibly on target.
Based on the fear I'm feeling, you're right, it must be extremely dangerous to chase these feelings. As my T once said, anxiety is like lights on a runway. It's there to point out that there's something down there and where to go, but also to be damn careful.
I agree that this is probably happening, along with other things. It just feels like I'm chronically triggered but not being sure what exactly is triggering me. I know I get triggered by my best friend (former GF who I now have a very close but very confusing relationship with) pretty much every time I see her. She represents one of my major binds/conflicts, namely being terrified of real emotional and physical intimacy and being terrified of not having it. And I'm triggered by my anger toward my T, which is really intense right now. And I have it in my head that I should be able to discern and analyze how and when it all starts and why it stays stuck in the "on" position for so long. So you're right, I'm pressing very hard when I'm not doing myself any favors in doing it. But the fog is like having a sharp stick in your eye...the only thing you're concerned about is getting the damn stick out and get some relief.
Again you're right on the money. My interior response to his email was something like, "WTF, man, how about something a little more personal and WELCOMING!! How about something like, 'HI Russ. I'll be available on Sunday after ten. Please feel free to call if you feel you need to talk for a few minutes.' Is this too much to ask?" And I feel like saying, "Dude, your email persona SUCKS. Once again, you make me feel like I'm not sure if it's OK to email or call."
But then, before our break, I asked if he'd be checking email and messages and he said yes. Then later in the session when HE was pointing out how formal and distant I am in telling him how I feel about him and asking for what I need I said, "hey, I asked you if you'd be available if I need to talk over the break." And he said, "yes, but in a very disinfected way." I didn't say this but I will next week. "Well, look what I have to interact with. Don't expect me to open up and be all warm and needy when you're sitting there like a log."
You are SO correct that I feel like my feelings are NOT getting validated and understood by him, even if they are. It's kind of like there's a flaw in the wiring between me and him. If that flaw weren't there, I'd be feeling validated and understood and supported, but I don't. But whenever I've been hurt in my life, this has always been the case. It seems that no amount of reparation fixes it for me. It's this very extreme, black and white way of experiencing things. If you hurt me, it's over. Done. Forever. There's no fixing it. Or, I can pretend that it's fixed because I know that's how "normal" people experience relationships...there are problems, the problems are talked about and then resolved. I can't do that. Damn, even a CHILD can get over a hurt. I seemingly can't.
This is such wonderful advice. Thank you so much. I AM going to do this starting this week. He wants me to open up, I'll open up on him. If I get swamped out of existence with the wretched head poison, well then I'll have learned something about why.
No! You're not being pushy at all! I think you're probably right. My T pointed out that I cannot get angry AT the people I love. I can get angry with them, but not in their presence. And this is true.
Thanks so much, LL. And thanks a million times over for the post. It really helps me.
Edit: I'm taking this as a good omen. I live in a very rural area, and as I was on my way home from getting coffee at our little general store, I turned into my road. About 100ft down the road, a big black bear went jogging across the road. I said, "Wow! Awesome!" Then, another bear followed the first one across the road. So cool!
Best,
Russ
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I am totally worn out by the whole thing. I still don't know if I'll call T tomorrow, but you're right, it's good that I have the option.
LL,
Thank you SO SO much for your reply. It's SO very comforting to know I'm not alone with this feeling, and your observations are incredibly on target.
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
As I’ve read your posts (old ones as well) I’ve had a sense of knowing a little bit of the fear/brain fog you describe. If you’re like me (needing to sort things out in between therapy sessions, desperate to get a handle on what the hell is going on in my head) then deliberately trying to chase elusive and possibly threatening feelings can be a really dangerous thing to do.
Based on the fear I'm feeling, you're right, it must be extremely dangerous to chase these feelings. As my T once said, anxiety is like lights on a runway. It's there to point out that there's something down there and where to go, but also to be damn careful.
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
Sorry don’t want to frighten you, just wanting to say that maybe pushing yourself to understand on your own the dynamics within you can make the fear and fog worse.
I agree that this is probably happening, along with other things. It just feels like I'm chronically triggered but not being sure what exactly is triggering me. I know I get triggered by my best friend (former GF who I now have a very close but very confusing relationship with) pretty much every time I see her. She represents one of my major binds/conflicts, namely being terrified of real emotional and physical intimacy and being terrified of not having it. And I'm triggered by my anger toward my T, which is really intense right now. And I have it in my head that I should be able to discern and analyze how and when it all starts and why it stays stuck in the "on" position for so long. So you're right, I'm pressing very hard when I'm not doing myself any favors in doing it. But the fog is like having a sharp stick in your eye...the only thing you're concerned about is getting the damn stick out and get some relief.
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
I get the sense that your T’s email reply has maybe kicked you out of the fog a bit and brought back the anger - and am going to say, that’s good - explanation below
Again you're right on the money. My interior response to his email was something like, "WTF, man, how about something a little more personal and WELCOMING!! How about something like, 'HI Russ. I'll be available on Sunday after ten. Please feel free to call if you feel you need to talk for a few minutes.' Is this too much to ask?" And I feel like saying, "Dude, your email persona SUCKS. Once again, you make me feel like I'm not sure if it's OK to email or call."
But then, before our break, I asked if he'd be checking email and messages and he said yes. Then later in the session when HE was pointing out how formal and distant I am in telling him how I feel about him and asking for what I need I said, "hey, I asked you if you'd be available if I need to talk over the break." And he said, "yes, but in a very disinfected way." I didn't say this but I will next week. "Well, look what I have to interact with. Don't expect me to open up and be all warm and needy when you're sitting there like a log."
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
What struck me was this comment of yours in a previous thread (the Two Week Break)
quote:And even when I'm furious with my T and he doesn't do anything that my dad would do in that situation, I still can't seem to see that my feelings are being honored, validated and respected. If I were able to do this, I think I'd be making more progress.
In my initial reply I wrote something like - well if you don’t feel that your feelings are being validated and respected, that means they aren’t! I don’t mean that your T is not validating and understanding you, but that if you don’t feel it then no amount of accepting it rationally will make it true. And my ‘advice’ in that reply was for you to act on that sense of lack - dig your heels in, throw a tantrum, tell him you don’t FEEL validated and understood, DEMAND it, use the anger you’re comfortable with to really push for it - going with the anger at T (as opposed to at your dad) and especially for something that might appear ‘unreasonable’ and ‘childish’ is a pretty good way to break through to whatever hurt or unmet needs or other underground feelings might be fuelling it - without your having to chase what you think ought to be there but can’t find.
I’ve found that pushing the anger on my own allowed me glimpses of other stuff underneath, but that got pretty quickly swamped in the black fear - with me spinning out. On the other hand, being able to go with it with the person at whom the anger is directed (and it seems to me your T is comfortable with your anger so you can be assured you’ll be heard without defensiveness) allows whatever is lurking underneath a chance to peek out spontaneously and in safety.
You are SO correct that I feel like my feelings are NOT getting validated and understood by him, even if they are. It's kind of like there's a flaw in the wiring between me and him. If that flaw weren't there, I'd be feeling validated and understood and supported, but I don't. But whenever I've been hurt in my life, this has always been the case. It seems that no amount of reparation fixes it for me. It's this very extreme, black and white way of experiencing things. If you hurt me, it's over. Done. Forever. There's no fixing it. Or, I can pretend that it's fixed because I know that's how "normal" people experience relationships...there are problems, the problems are talked about and then resolved. I can't do that. Damn, even a CHILD can get over a hurt. I seemingly can't.
This is such wonderful advice. Thank you so much. I AM going to do this starting this week. He wants me to open up, I'll open up on him. If I get swamped out of existence with the wretched head poison, well then I'll have learned something about why.
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
I’ve resurrected my thoughts on your situation because I can hear how his being different in email has actually made things worse for you (I HATE the way all Ts seem to become different out of session hours - there’s reasons for it but it still throws me for one into profound fear and doubt...). I’m wondering if a big part of what’s creating the black fog of anxiety in your head isn’t actually a lot to do with anger at people/things that you haven’t yet identified or admitted to yourself? Sorry if that’s pushy and imposing interpretations on you - I’m basing it purely on my experience and the fact that I sense quite a bit of similarity between your set up and mine.
No! You're not being pushy at all! I think you're probably right. My T pointed out that I cannot get angry AT the people I love. I can get angry with them, but not in their presence. And this is true.
quote:Originally posted by Lamplighter:
In any event, I really hope you will be ok and that you DO contact T if you feel you need to - and that despite everything you have a very happy birthday!
Thanks so much, LL. And thanks a million times over for the post. It really helps me.
Edit: I'm taking this as a good omen. I live in a very rural area, and as I was on my way home from getting coffee at our little general store, I turned into my road. About 100ft down the road, a big black bear went jogging across the road. I said, "Wow! Awesome!" Then, another bear followed the first one across the road. So cool!
Best,
Russ
(((((Russ))))).... I'm sorry I really don't know what to tell you except that I can understand how you feel to some degree. I suffer with that awful, suffocating anxiety at times and know how utterly exhausting it can feel and how it just takes over your life. I cannot imagine dealing with it for months at a time. Mine sort of comes and goes depending on the triggers around me. It's been better lately, less intense, less frequent, since I've been in therapy but at times... it's totally overwhelming to the point where I cannot take in any information I am so activated.
I think it was awesome that you contacted your T and asked for the phone call. This is a case of asking for what you need. Unfortunately, most Ts really suck at email. My T can be wonderful in emails or sound horribly dismissive and cold. I think part of it is that they are just not comfortable with the electronic medium and do better face to face. And yes I agree that he could have given you the respect of addressing you by name. My T will often use my name but sometimes he does not and does not even sign his own name LOL. The main thing is that he is there for you when you need him. I would encourage you to take advantage of the phone offer. I think just doing that would be therapeutic for you on it's own.
I was just wondering and I could be very wrong but wanted to throw this out there.... that your inability to tolerate a close intimate relationship could be your way of not allowing yourself to be be happy. To give yourself the permission to go ahead and take that chance to enjoy life and love. I hate seeing you struggle with the horrible head-fog so much because you are such a great guy and truly deserving of happiness.
And, please let me wish you a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY and a day that is hopefully free of anxiety so you can enjoy it. Call your T. You have nothing to lose. Let us know how it goes.
Hug,
TN
I think it was awesome that you contacted your T and asked for the phone call. This is a case of asking for what you need. Unfortunately, most Ts really suck at email. My T can be wonderful in emails or sound horribly dismissive and cold. I think part of it is that they are just not comfortable with the electronic medium and do better face to face. And yes I agree that he could have given you the respect of addressing you by name. My T will often use my name but sometimes he does not and does not even sign his own name LOL. The main thing is that he is there for you when you need him. I would encourage you to take advantage of the phone offer. I think just doing that would be therapeutic for you on it's own.
I was just wondering and I could be very wrong but wanted to throw this out there.... that your inability to tolerate a close intimate relationship could be your way of not allowing yourself to be be happy. To give yourself the permission to go ahead and take that chance to enjoy life and love. I hate seeing you struggle with the horrible head-fog so much because you are such a great guy and truly deserving of happiness.
And, please let me wish you a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY
and a day that is hopefully free of anxiety so you can enjoy it. Call your T. You have nothing to lose. Let us know how it goes.Hug,
TN
TN,
Thanks so much for the comforting words. I really appreciate it. I'm feeling a little less foggy since last night, so that's great. I managed to go swimming with a friend and then hang out with some other friends for dinner and felt relatively good, so that's good (with the help of a little anti-anxiety medication).
I think you're right. I often think people are less than friendly via email when it turns out that that's just how they do electronic communications. Their e-persona isn't representative of their actual personality. I'm just hyper, hyper sensitive because I post and email and IM so much that I can't imagine not presenting myself as accurately as possible via e-communications.
I think anything is possible at this point. But I have taken the chance and what I encountered was intense fear. In the past, I just backed out of relationships, citing not wanting to be "tied down" or "lose my freedom" etc, etc. But what was really going on was a fear of an adult relationship, and the fear is based on my original attempt to connect/attach with my mother.
My T's theory is this. I know it sounds a little out there, but here it is. When I was a child and attempted to connect with my mother, two things happened. One was I came up against my father, who I was afraid of and who rejected me and who I saw as the person who my mother was mostly and really available to. I took a back seat to him and, as I say, I was also frightened of him. It's not that my dad was openly hostile and cutting to me as an infant (but it wasn't too much after then that he was), but he didn't have to be. His mere presence, his insanely negative energy, the perpetual scowl on his face, watching and listening to him be grouchy and joyless around my mom...it all said, "don't go there, kid. That's for me, not you. You stay away or we'll send you away. Got it?" It's no wonder I hate his guts.
During the time that I did get with my mother - as much as it pains me to say this - there wasn't much there to connect with. My mother being who she is, I didn't detect any exuberance, any desire, any passion, or any joy in her. Emotionally, she was very closed, repressed and restrained. There weren't a lot of smiles or laughter to hook into to. I know this all must sound a little nutty, but it's true...my mother is such a reserved, selfless person, that there literally was very little "person" or self for me to attach to.
So, the idea is that if I put myself out there - emotionally, physically - in a real, adult relationship, there's a conflict between: 1) the part of me that fears reaching for that connection based on my attempt to connect with my mother and running into dad and, 2) the adult part of me that's acting out it's natural, healthy desire to be with someone.
Thanks so much. I hope you have a great holiday, too!
Russ
Thanks so much for the comforting words. I really appreciate it. I'm feeling a little less foggy since last night, so that's great. I managed to go swimming with a friend and then hang out with some other friends for dinner and felt relatively good, so that's good (with the help of a little anti-anxiety medication).
quote:Originally posted by True North:
I think part of it is that they are just not comfortable with the electronic medium and do better face to face.
I think you're right. I often think people are less than friendly via email when it turns out that that's just how they do electronic communications. Their e-persona isn't representative of their actual personality. I'm just hyper, hyper sensitive because I post and email and IM so much that I can't imagine not presenting myself as accurately as possible via e-communications.
quote:Originally posted by True North:
I was just wondering and I could be very wrong but wanted to throw this out there.... that your inability to tolerate a close intimate relationship could be your way of not allowing yourself to be be happy. To give yourself the permission to go ahead and take that chance to enjoy life and love.
I think anything is possible at this point. But I have taken the chance and what I encountered was intense fear. In the past, I just backed out of relationships, citing not wanting to be "tied down" or "lose my freedom" etc, etc. But what was really going on was a fear of an adult relationship, and the fear is based on my original attempt to connect/attach with my mother.
My T's theory is this. I know it sounds a little out there, but here it is. When I was a child and attempted to connect with my mother, two things happened. One was I came up against my father, who I was afraid of and who rejected me and who I saw as the person who my mother was mostly and really available to. I took a back seat to him and, as I say, I was also frightened of him. It's not that my dad was openly hostile and cutting to me as an infant (but it wasn't too much after then that he was), but he didn't have to be. His mere presence, his insanely negative energy, the perpetual scowl on his face, watching and listening to him be grouchy and joyless around my mom...it all said, "don't go there, kid. That's for me, not you. You stay away or we'll send you away. Got it?" It's no wonder I hate his guts.
During the time that I did get with my mother - as much as it pains me to say this - there wasn't much there to connect with. My mother being who she is, I didn't detect any exuberance, any desire, any passion, or any joy in her. Emotionally, she was very closed, repressed and restrained. There weren't a lot of smiles or laughter to hook into to. I know this all must sound a little nutty, but it's true...my mother is such a reserved, selfless person, that there literally was very little "person" or self for me to attach to.
So, the idea is that if I put myself out there - emotionally, physically - in a real, adult relationship, there's a conflict between: 1) the part of me that fears reaching for that connection based on my attempt to connect with my mother and running into dad and, 2) the adult part of me that's acting out it's natural, healthy desire to be with someone.
quote:Originally posted by True North:
And, please let me wish you a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Thanks so much. I hope you have a great holiday, too!
Russ
Happy Birthday Russ!! I hope that you find some relief from your struggle today.
quote:Originally posted by scaredtoriskmyself:
Happy Birthday Russ!! I hope that you find some relief from your struggle today.
Thanks, STRM!!! Thankfully, I'm feeling better today. Planning a relaxing day with friends at a cookout.
Best,
Russ
Happy Birthday, Russ!
MTF
MTF
Yes, Happy Birthday Russ!
starfish
starfish
Happy Birthday Russ!!!
I think your birth is definitely worth celebrating!
I think your birth is definitely worth celebrating!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY RUSS- IN EVERY WAY, I HOPE IT IS A GREAT DAY FOR YOU.
Enjoy the cook out, and the bears.
We see black bears quite frequently here and we are not so rural.
Enjoy the cook out, and the bears.
We see black bears quite frequently here and we are not so rural.
Happy Birthday Russ! 
(((( All ))))
Thanks to everyone for the happy birthday wishes. Today was a good day. The fog took a hike and I spent the day with good friends and people I love, and was moved by the knowledge of how many people care about me and love me, and I am grateful for that, and just as grateful that I can feel it.
Thanks again, everyone.
Russ
Thanks to everyone for the happy birthday wishes. Today was a good day. The fog took a hike and I spent the day with good friends and people I love, and was moved by the knowledge of how many people care about me and love me, and I am grateful for that, and just as grateful that I can feel it.
Thanks again, everyone.
Russ
Live in that feeling Russ, rely on it- during weak times, and that will help you through it. Remember how you felt on your birthday- hold on to that because that is what is real. Let that feeling pull you through the fog.
My fog has lifted for a season, and for that I am grateful.
Be well!
Mayo
My fog has lifted for a season, and for that I am grateful.
Be well!
Mayo