AG you have every right to feel the way you feel now or tomorrow or the next day and if those feelings include grief over what you cannot have with your T or what you didn't have from your parents, then all of those feelings are valid.

I think it shows just how far you have come and what good work you did with your T in that you can so precisely identify the feelings and where they come from and what they really mean. Of course, none of that makes dealing with them any easier.

I also think you are incredibly brave to come here and share those very raw emotions with us. Watching your journey and your growth has really been an honor. You and your wonderful T show how good therapy is done.

I just wish I could do something to ease your pain.

Hugs
TN

Oh (((AG)))
as you know, i'm the last person to give advice and won't!!! you tossed the coin about going back and knew it was always a two edged situation to go back - need/want! the joy of seeing this special man was going to have a downside - you don't hate him - you love him and he loves you, just within *special confines* - you did the right thing going back - and any time you need/want to go back will be right also and he weill welcome you as always - you haven't lost him and never will! from someone who is *trying* to breathe through mud with a straw, just *breathe* and let it flow through you AG!!
Thinking of and thanking you
Morgs

((((AG))))

I am sorry you are going through this. I feared that would happen for you. It can be so hard to see T again, especially when the meeting goes so well! I do think it will get easier in time, though. Hang in there...

Hey AG,

I am so sorry that you are feeling bad. Of course, I feel doubly bad because I was one of the ones who encouraged you to go back despite your fears.

I used to have fanatasies about being with my T. But rather than talk to him about it, I went there in my head. What if I had a relationship with him? What would my life look like? He works an awful lot and probably wouldn't be home much for me. I know a little about what he likes to do in his spare time. But do we have enough in common? I came to the realization that in all honesty, I don't, right now, know how to really love anyone. I used to be in the idealizing/devaling phase. Now it's just more an acceptance that I don't know how to love someone. Let's just say for a minute that my T decided I was the woman of his dreams. I don't even know if I would know how to love him. Maybe he'd get on my nerves. Maybe I would think he looked a little nerdy mowing the grass with a face mask on. Maybe his allergies in the spring would drive me crazy. Maybe you know all the answers to these questions? And still feel as though he'd be the perfect mate for you? I don't know. There is a way at looking at things that either makes you feel victimized or feel as though you have some power, some say in the matter. If we had that true acceptance of boundaries and that not everyone is going to love of us and we're not going to love everyone and felt as though we had some power over our own lives, it woudn't hurt so much? I struggle with that one big time. Always feeling victimized and acted upon. Still trying to find my power. Just throwing things out.

This also may be a normal part of leaving therapy?

AG, I'm going to throw something out at you. I'm wondering if there is still a pain you haven't worked through. And this T isn't the one who can help you work it through. It just all seems so unresolved to me. That there's still a need for you that isn't being met. I don't mean to throw a wrench into things for you. I just feel bad that it hurts you so much. It's a little scary too because maybe I'm hoping that when I leave therapy, it's not going to hurt me so much.

((((BIG HUGS))))

Liese

((((((AG))))))

Most of the time in life we make letting go really noisy. We push and pull at each other, hurt them, hurt ourselves, cling, kick and fight or just run in terror. I think a lot of this is just fighting the reality of time and our own changing needs, trying to push away the feelings of loss.

But to be still in loss... to move slowly and feel every inch of the letting go, to honour all of it. What a beautiful way to honour the love, the loved one and life itself - *all* of it.

Love,
Jones

(((AG)))

I'm sorry your pain is so big for you right now. I'm honored that you shared it here with us. I can understand how much you wish there was more to your relationship with your T and at the same time know that there couldn't be and have it still be the life changing relationship it is.

I'm also sorry that there is nothing I can say that helps. I think that your pain is an essential part of you and that understanding it doesn't make it go away. Also I think that with any deep pain it doesn't really go away completely instead it and our awareness of it comes and goes. I hope it goes soon.

Di

AG,

I wish there was something I could say to make your pain better. I'm sorry it is so raw for you right now, but I'm grateful that you were able to come here and share with us and I recognize all of the healing that you've done to get to this place where even though it hurts like hell you can sit with these feelings and recognize them for what they are. (((hugs)))

quote:

I wanted to be able to just say how I'm feeling without telling myself I shouldn't feel that way.

(((((AG))))) I think you are showing us what health is. Thank you for sharing, even though it hurts. Thinking of you...

((AG)) I'm so sorry that you are feeling so bad at the moment. I wish I could say something to make you feel better. Just know that I am thinking of you.(())

Smiley

AG

I can really sense your pain through your post. I, like others here, have little to add because this is a really personal deep pain for you - but know that we are feeling your sadness and grief and understand.

starfishy

Hi All,
Thank you so much for all of your care and compassion, it really helped to read each and every response. As I predicted, I’m feeling better today and feel like I’ve regained some perspective. Probably because I just allowed myself to feel it. It makes it easier that I know this is a necessary grief and as always, there is hope embedded in grief, the certain knowledge that you won’t always grieve.

I also want to thank everyone so much for making it clear that my talking about these feelings and expressing my pain was welcome. It’s difficult enough to speak when I am in that place, but I do worry that hearing that I can still struggle on this level could be triggering or discouraging for other people. I really appreciate that you all make it clear that you want me to speak, whether its good or bad. That is truly a very precious gift.

TN,
Thank you, I so appreciate you’re validating both my grief and that it will take as long as it will take. And pointing out the clarity I have about this, which I know I didn’t always possess. I can be grateful that at least I’m not still gonzo confused about what’s going on.

quote:

I just wish I could do something to ease your pain.

Really have to get to work on that magic wand, right? (OK hysterical aside, while I was typing this my boss came in. He just went on a trip to FL and we had given him a night at the vacation club at Disney. He bought me a gift to say thank you. So he just handed me a magic wand! They went to Harry Potter at Universal and he brought me back Voldemort’s wand. Kid you not! The universe is a weird and wacky place.)

But seriously, you did ease my pain, there was so much comfort in what you wrote.

Morgs,
I loved the “breathe through mud with a straw!” What a perfect description. I appreciate the reminder to breathe (have you been talking to my T? ) and to let it flow. I know that it’s easier when I don’t block the feelings. I should use that knowledge, it took me a long time to learn it. Thank you for your concern.

DF,
Thank you for all you said, it really resonated with me. I am so glad that what I say can help you. And how cool is the term cyber-transference?

quote:

what you desire is... exactly what most people would want. Hell, I want your T as a friend or a father he sounds fabulous.

Thanks for normalizing my feelings, makes me feel much less pathetic, actually. And yeah, he is fabulous, I’m very touched that you would feel that way about him too.

quote:

It sounds like seeing your T again was really a catalyst in providing you with some more work... that his absence can be just as healing as his presence.

That was just incredibly powerful to read. It made it much less scary, because if this is just an extension of our work, then I know that I know how to do that and that I have my Ts support, whether or not I’m seeing him.

Ladygrey,

Yeah, that was the fear wasn’t it? That no matter how good it was, that it would get hard again. Funny, but you could actually apply that description to life. So I’ll use the good to face the pain. And I think it will get easier in time also. Thank you.

Jones,

Bless your quite wonderful take on things.

quote:

But to be still in loss... to move slowly and feel every inch of the letting go, to honour all of it. What a beautiful way to honour the love, the loved one and life itself - *all* of it.

This gives so much meaning to what I’m feeling, thank you so very much.

Incognito,

Thank you for your recognition that despite the pain, it was still a life changing relationship. That the understanding the pain doesn’t stop us from feeling it. I can so fight that part. What do you mean I still need to experience these feelings? I understand where they’re coming from, shouldn’t they just go poof now? I must have driven my T to distraction with how many times he had to explain it’s not about what you know. (Honestly, I have emails from him to prove it!) And you did say something that helps, thank you.

STRM,

I don’t know if I’ve ever told you, but I always really admire you posts for (and honestly, am a little envious of) the fact that you go so directly to the heart of a matter and so clearly address that.

quote:

I recognize all of the healing that you've done to get to this place where even though it hurts like hell you can sit with these feelings and recognize them for what they are.

Thank you for the reflection that my being in pain is not a sign that my progress and work didn’t disappear.

MH,

Thank you for the affirmation and coming to provide it, when I know you are struggling.

Smiley,
Thank you for your compassion. And may I say that it really gives my heart a lift to see you here posting again? (((Smiley))))

Starfish,

Thank you for listening, I still don’t understand why being heard means so much, but I know that it does and is incredibly healing.

Thank you all again so much, I don’t know what I’d do if I weren’t able to come here and be heard and understood.

AG

AG, Just wanted to say thank you for your reply to me. I was so worried that you'd be mad at me for saying it. It was really stressing me out. Not being good myself with loss and grieving and usually avoiding the process by not getting attached to people, I guess it's hard for me to imagine what it might be like to leave therapy and to deal with the feelings that go along with it. But it is certainly interesting to learn about it from your perspective. And, as you pointed out, you were ready. And that there was a time when you couldn't even consider it.

I thought of you today when I saw my T. I'm always afraid to bring things up with him because I am afraid he'll get mad at me. I think this is mostly transference that I have to work through. But today I decided to ask him something that I was pretty sure he'd say no to but that I was also ready to hear. I remember you telling me something like that also about wanting a hug from your T. I asked him if he would send me inspirational daily text messages. I know it may sound like a funny thing to ask but I figured he'd say no and I wanted to see his reaction. And, on the plus side, if he said yes, my life would be enriched. Well, he handled it beautifully and with a smile. It was great for me to see that he didn't get angry with me.

Love the wand story, btw. The universe surely does work in strange ways!!!

Glad to hear you are feeling more balanced today.

Liese

Liese that was something I used to get from my oldT... not every day but once in awhile when he thought I needed it... he would send me inspirational quotes via email. I LOVED getting them and they meant so much to me and helped me so much too.

So what did your T say? Was it yes or no?

I think it was very brave of you to ask.

TN

TN,

He said no. But we had a good laugh about it. I told him he could charge $5.00 a day for inspirational messages and make more money. I was really testing him to see how he would react. Of course, I'd really love a daily inspirational text but not too important if I don't get one.

Liese,

Did he say why he was saying no to your request?

Liese I'm sorry he said no to you. I do hope he gave you a reasonable explanation and heard you out on this because that is the more important aspect of you asking for something.

I recently asked my T about something although he didn't say no outright he explained why it may not be a good idea. I appreciated hearing his reasons and he was very open to compromise and discussion with me about it.

I always used to stress to oldT... I can handle the no if you give me a reason and we can discuss it. I hope you had that opportunity.

Hug
TN

ag, just getting in on this thread.

it is interesting to read your recap of the tender, hard feelings of yearning that you feel. that darned t of yours is sure good though! and he puts things so well...

"to not realize that would be to still hope you could get what you lost and you would keep looking for something impossible to find."

oh, so true. if he gave in any, it would just leave you thirsty for more. such harsh reality.

but, and i know you have kids, once you GIVE IN, you make a MONSTER out of them! (i am dealing with a 13 year old now with monster issues!!)

so, he is right, seems like your id is catching up to reality a bit, and, i see it like stair steps, that, these pangs for attachment in a 'graduate' (not the movie, but being out of therapy) way are going to get easier. like leaving home (a normal home) for most kids.

oh, i learn so much about parenting from being in therapy!!

anyway. glad the day after was easier.

and i appreciate you sharing your struggles. we all admire you, but, you don't have to be the 'problem-less helper' around here all the time!! seems we are all learning that needs go both ways! so, your struggles help us all, too. and hopefully, reaching out helps you. you know it helps people to offer help, so, it is a win-win!! keep sharing!!

i anticipate some of these same things with dr. pa. i know i imagine how neat it would be to have him over, show him my home, meet my family.

i have put this father role on him, and feel some guilt that he has more than my own father.

i have just started painting, and painted today, and just kept thinking, oh, i can't wait to tell dr. pa, and, of course i'll do it even though it is silly, i'll bring it and show it to him when it dries!!... like daddy!!

i talk about this transference with him, and know, at some point, he will have to wean me off. i hope not for awhile. i am still too young!! (in therapy)

but, the weaning will be hard. and, like you are experiencing, as your daughter is too, the 'off to college' days of ending therapy are really scary.

but,

seeing you walk these waters helps me know what to anticipate. and, realize, that my USUAL way of preventing hurt by NOT attaching is NOT what i want to do now. i am attaching, like a leech, a fairly healthy leech lately, and enjoying the ride. the end will come, with God's mercy, it will be a healing, and properly timed journey. and i will detach, gracefully, like ag. and live on.

so.

onward sweet friend!!

xxoo jill