I'll start!

I am not going to text T1 tonight. If I still feel like texting her in the morning, I will but there is nothing that needs to be said tonight and my texting her would only be because I am having separation anxiety after our good session this afternoon.

Thanks, LG!

I won't text T tonight. He just texted me back a thank you and I want so bad to know what he meant by it (because I can read negative stuff into "Thanks" and "God bless"). If I have something worth saying tomorrow, I will text him.

Thanks for the thread LG. I am going to try and not email my T until next marital session which is not until March 1st, unless by some miracle I hear from him first. Maybe an unrealistic goal, but I am trying to stop needing so much contact with him since I can't seem to find a way to get what I need from him anyway. Do we have to be accountable on here?

BB

Well, I figure you can just "edit" your original post when you change your mind about the terms.

Ha,ha, that wouldn't work for me- I edit just about every post I write, since I make so many typos that I then see after I post!

quote:

my texting her would only be because I am having separation anxiety after our good session this afternoon

Oh crap! Is this not a good enough reason to text?

quote:

I certainly hope it is because 95% of the time I text T due to separation anxiety. Smiler

If I'm honest, most of my texting is because of that too. Unless there is an actual event that triggered me, like today, usually the only trigger that causes my freak outs is that he is existing somewhere out in the world and I am at home feeling alone and disconnected. Usually, it feels like my freak outs are valid, but I've slowly become more able to identify the source is my attachment/need for him and my anger/shame about it. He would save himself a ton of texts per week if he would just send me one every morning saying, "Hey Yaku. I'm here for you. I hope you have a good day." Maybe I should tell him that. Though, I guess his goal is to get at what's beneath my attachment to him and not to just make things easier on both of us.

I'm just starting to become aware that missing T is the root of my feelings (or at least a manifestation of him representing what I missed out on at an earlier stage).

So, it's usually like, "I hate feeling so needy toward you. It makes me feel disgusting and unsafe and I want to destroy my dependency by starving this connection." I think if I can get to the just accepting I am missing him and asking for reassurance (without the wanting to beat the crap out of myself for it), that would be a real step forward!!!

I wouldn't have to text T1 so much if she just moved in with me already. So really, its her fault she gets so many texts from me.

quote:

quote:


Oh crap! Is this not a good enough reason to text?

LOL, this made me laugh!

quote:

I frequently text my T a variation of the same theme. It usually goes something like this, "Missing you and just need to know you are there." Yep, pretty much that is what she gets a good amount of the time.

What does she say back?

I should just text T something similar, but instead I exaggerate some crisis that I am having just so I can talk to her.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
Thanks for the thread LG. I am going to try and not email my T until next marital session which is not until March 1st, unless by some miracle I hear from him first. Maybe an unrealistic goal, but I am trying to stop needing so much contact with him since I can't seem to find a way to get what I need from him anyway. Do we have to be accountable on here?

BB

Heck yes you are accountable!!

March 1st...that's like a week away! But I'm sure you can do it. Go, BB!

quote:

So, it's usually like, "I hate feeling so needy toward you. It makes me feel disgusting and unsafe and I want to destroy my dependency by starving this connection." I think if I can get to the just accepting I am missing him and asking for reassurance (without the wanting to beat the crap out of myself for it), that would be a real step forward!!

Its odd that no matter how much our Ts reassure us that its ok to contact them, we will never believe them and will continue to beat ourselves up over it. My T has told me repeatedly that its okay to contact her and that she is here for me as little or as much as I need her, yet I still hate myself for being so dependent on her.

quote:

Originally posted by LadyGrey:
I'll start!

I am not going to text T1 tonight. If I still feel like texting her in the morning, I will but there is nothing that needs to be said tonight and my texting her would only be because I am having separation anxiety after our good session this afternoon.

Okay, successfully passed my first "no text" test!!!

New one:
I will not text T before 2pm today.

I'm so jealous because I don't think my T texts. I've asked him to send me inspirational texts every day, just like Yaku suggested. But he said no. Waaaa. I don't think he does email either. He hasn't offered anything but I've never asked either.

quote:

I wouldn't have to text T1 so much if she just moved in with me already. So really, its her fault she gets so many texts from me.

LG, that's a great thought! I'm totally with you on this line of defense! In fact, I'm going to use it on my T today. But she'll probably just say something like, "I didn't complain about your texting me too much. That's all in your head. I've only said I don't like the ones where you are projecting your anger onto me and pushing me away with it."

Yaku:

quote:

So, it's usually like, "I hate feeling so needy toward you. It makes me feel disgusting and unsafe and I want to destroy my dependency by starving this connection." I think if I can get to the just accepting I am missing him and asking for reassurance (without the wanting to beat the crap out of myself for it), that would be a real step forward!!!

That sums it up nicely-

LG:

quote:

Its odd that no matter how much our Ts reassure us that its ok to contact them, we will never believe them and will continue to beat ourselves up over it. My T has told me repeatedly that its okay to contact her and that she is here for me as little or as much as I need her, yet I still hate myself for being so dependent on her.

So, wait, I'm confused- what is the reason for stop texting/emailing again? I'm really really confused about the whole issue- still. My T has said that the lesson here is for me to learn to do what I want to do and trust that he will do what he needs to do. But even when I was sending him pages every day, he never said stop, specifically. I don't get it.

LG- good for you for meeting your goal..I think! Based on what I just said, I'm confused about whether I should congratulate you for texting, or congratulate you for not texting.

Last contact with T: 2/19
Projected date of future contact, marital session: March 1st
Trying to starve the connection is a good way to put it. Of at least accept the lack of one instead of force the impossible in my case.

BB,

I think that we are supposed to learn to trust them, to feel comfortable reaching out to them, etc.

However, I feel that I am abusing it by exaggerating my crisis and even resorting to outright making up reasons to contact her. I feel like I need to learn to be okay not having contact with her. I need to learn to feel close to people, even when they aren't with me. this extends far beyond my T. I used to have the same issue with my husband.

quote:

Originally posted by scaredtoriskmyself:
Okay, I've changed my mind. I haven't sent T a text, but you know what? If I feel like I need to then I'm going to and that is okay! T has said that I can and should text her if I need to and I'm going to believe that she can hold the boundary on this issue if it becomes a problem.

Yes, it is absolutely okay. I didn't mean to imply that texting our Ts is a bad behavior that needs to be stopped. I think only we can know what is best for ourselves. For me, right now that means not texting T all of the time just to have contact. But other times, I need to be able to text her in a crisis and it would be okay to reach out in that event. Really, I just want to have a healthy texting relationship and right now to me it does not feel healthy, for me.

quote:

However, I feel that I am abusing it by exaggerating my crisis and even resorting to outright making up reasons to contact her.

LG,
First I want to say that I read your previous post and definitely understand that you're not saying it's right or wrong to text, it's about what you believe is the best thing for you to do at any given time. Honestly, I never thought differently. And I also think your desire not to abuse the priviledge is a good thing.

But the quote above struck me because I SO remember feeling that way and I wanted to ask you a gentle question. What if you just wanting to contact your T WAS a good enough reason, that you don't need to find another reason. My T and I discussed many times but I especially remember a discussion near the beginning of our work together, when I told him about wanting to call just to know he was there. So I said the conversation would go like this(after leaving a message with his service that it was an emergency, as that is the only way to get a prompt answer.)

T: Hi AG, what's up?

ME: That's all I needed.

And how stupid I would feel doing that. And he told me that he understood why I would need to know he was there so he wouldn't think it was stupid. So I joke around about it, but most of my emergency calls to my T were around 2-3 minutes. I would basically say how I was feeling (sad, angry, scared) or ask for reassurance that he was still there. He would warmly assure me that he was, I would say thank you and we'd get off the phone.

He explained that you never know when you're need for your attachment figure will rise up, that many different things could trigger it, which is why he has a 24/7 contact policy. I am eternally grateful he got that part (worth not getting the hugs. ) And I found that touching base when I needed to is what eventually taught me to believe he was really there and could be trusted to be there.

Take it for what it's worth, I don't know that my experience will resonate for you.

AG

quote:

Take it for what it's worth, I don't know that my experience will resonate for you.

No, it does resonate with me. I think your suggestions are great and it makes sense that I wouldn't have to exagerate my problems in order to get my Ts attention. I think if I were to simply text and say, "I just miss you" she would text back something positive and assuring. I think she would get it. I guess I just feel that I might feel a bit silly for texting that, like the bigger the problem the less needy I am for reaching out to her but the smaller the problem, the needier I am for reaching out. Does that make sense?

I'm on the same page. Short of a REAL crisis (not the sort of crisis that is me freaking out about my neediness toward T), I will not text him until at least my daughter goes down for her nap (usually 2:00 or 3:00 pm).

This morning, I wanted so bad to just text him to thank him again, to let him know I am doing well, which I know he likes hearing. To ask him to pray for me, because I am playing drums with the worship band tonight and I am anxious about it and I know from H that T plays guitar at his church and it's something we can connect on.

I don't think it's wrong to change your mind and text if you feel good about doing it. But, I don't want to feel like texting is causing me this cycle of pain where I am freaking out just because I feel so much need toward him and then freaking out because I texted him about it and then doing things to punish myself for burdening him and then I HAVE to text him because I am supposed to when those things happen...and it just gets worse. I would like to avoid the texting that is just me reassuring myself of his existence and do it because I feel I actually have something to say that he hasn't heard 300,000,000 times in the last six months.

I have actually outright told him that while I am in the middle of a freak-out, it seems so real and scary, but afterward when I look back, I can see that some of it came from a place of just wanting his attention or testing that he was going to be there for me. My unconscious is pretty good at getting me worked up. I still liken it to a kid who has a nightmare and calls out for her dad. That's what I am doing. I turn into a little girl who is scared of this world inside her mind. When I am adult me again, I think, "Wow, there wasn't really a monster in my closet. I just needed to know dad was there."

Anyway, no texting until at least 2:00 pm, for sure!

Last week after I sent my T a few texts about something, I texted her another text that said, "By the way, I intend to become less dependent on you, but I'm grateful I've been able to count on you being there when I'm having a melt down."

and she wrote back:
I'm here for you as much or as little as you need. You are very welcome!"


and then yesterday in my session with her she asked me if I would text her when I am feeling the urge to binge/purge.

So I know that she is okay with me contacting her, but I feel like such a clingy child every time I do. I dont' feel good about myself when I continue to reach out to her. I wish I could be stronger and I fear that I will never be able to terminate my therapy because I will be too attached to end my therapy. I feel like I have to start the process now...the process of separating myself from her.

I wasn't implying anything either, honest- I was only trying to clear up *my own* confusion about the issue..I totally respect everyone's reason's for texting or not texting. Gosh, I'm so sorry it came across the wrong way!

I totally support you in this LG- you need to do what works for you and find out what works for you, and I'm just sitting here trying to learn something from everyone's experience of this.

Good on you for your success so far!

BB

Everybody is so apologetic...honestly though, there are no hurt feelings! I was just wanting to clarify that I don't mean to imply that it is wrong to text your T.

We can all have different goals...and that's okay!

This isn't a response to anyone, just me processing where I am at on this.

I suspended checking my email account that is only for my T to email me for 24 hours this weekend. It was super hard! It helped me realize what I wanted and was doing. My T doesn't normally email on weekends, so really I was just trying to stop checking for something I didn't expect anyhow. I was feeling super insecure about the relationship and wanted her response because I think I thought it would help me feel better, or like I could make everything ok if it wasn't, rather than trust the relationship could hold whatever could be going on… A key part is that I really had no reason to think my T would email on the weekend. Checking my email so much was making me feel more anxious about the relationship and it was self defeating... I think for me, it was about stating what I needed, and just letting myself need, while trying to show myself I’d be ok if my T took take time to get back to me.

My old T and I texted often, and for awhile, it was super helpful. Then it felt like it was just scaring me. Her texts became too loaded and I would go into panic attacks every time I saw a text from her. They were not reassuring me about the relationship. I felt like the contact was making me trust less and be more anxious. I still wanted to text her, but not get texts back from her in the way she was texting... I wanted more reassurance just that she was there, and that wasn’t happening. I asked if we could stop, and her refusal to say to stop texting me, and to say I had to text her, was one of many many signs that the relationship was. (and it all ended very badly)

I guess both situations reflect my fear of abandonment or being overwhelmed and engulfed in a relationship.

Back to the T I have now. I will at times call my T and say something is up but I’m going to save it. She knows, and then is able to reassure me she is still there. It’s my way of showing myself the relationship is still there. She knows sometimes all I need to know is that she is there, and nothing more. I don’t have to justify it or even give any reason, let alone a big enough one. I know this intellectually, but it is very hard to actually trust.

I trust my T more than I used to. It’s been a combination of me asking for connection, and then backing up when it started to get obsessive in my mind. I think one key thing that has helped is telling her I’m backing up to chill. It took some time before I was able to say it, and when I did, my T said she already knew that is what was going on for me. She said it was a way to manage the attachment. She didn’t say it was good or bad. She did say it would be better to learn to be more steady over time, but that takes a lot of time. She reassures me endlessly it’s ok to call whenever I need, and that she will take care of herself – and that helps me focus on thinking about what I need. Sometimes I don’t even know what I need.

It's even harder when I feel like I need, to admit it, and then have that need not met, and then try to manage it. And there are things that I legitmately have needed and my T hasn't been able to meet. Rather than face that pain, more often than not, I have just tried to not need. Over time, I think I am getting stronger to admit more of what I need and deal with the risk and possible pain of it not being met in a healthy way. Sometimes though, the best I can do is just to not even feel that need. The need is still there - and it drives me nuts sometimes. It's so hard to be vulnerable and needy.

Just yesterday, something came up, and I deeply just wanted to know my T was there. I felt so silly and childish about needing that. Then I started to hate me like crazy and spiral… I called my T and said, “Hey this is jane. I’m just calling because all I am thinking right now is I SUCK. I feel like I need too much. I feel like I crave and need someone to just be there. I have no idea why or how and feel stupid I need that, but I just do. I have no idea how to deal with it, let alone if it is even ok to need that, and if it was, how I would get that need met because it just isn’t. I just wanted to tell you that. I don’t want a call back right now even if I do need one.” My T later told me in a session the same day that she wished she could just take out my self judgment…

The irony is that needing something "small" (like my T just to tell me she is there) feels so huge, as opposed to needing something big (like when I am in a full blown crisis) - then it feels so much easier and much smaller to need my T.

It is hard and painful to want and need connection and relationship that isn't "justified" in my own mind.

My own desire to have connection and my own needs scare me sometimes. Sometimes the only way I know to safely manage it is to back up and take a break from contact. I’m just not there yet to not need periods of time where I need space and periods of time where I need more contact. It taken me some time to get to the point to just say hey, I just need to know you are there and I only seem to be able to do that when I am in a stronger place. Sometimes I just don’t have that "strength" and I freak out and then start to spiral about the relationship and get very reactive and angry or feel rejected very easily out of insecurities that were getting stirred up by my needs…

I wish I knew how to get to a steadier place, at least to get there quicker than I am, because this is so hard!

~jane

((((((((((Jane)))))))))

I think you are describing exactly what I've been trying to get at. It made me feel so much better. I was starting to hate myself for judging myself for needing, LOL!

Wow, I totally failed my second test. I caved three hours early and texted her. UGH!

However, I was having major anxiety about something and I was not exaggerating it just so I could have contact. I really am having an anxiety attack!

Still, I wish I could have been strong enough not to text her until later. Or better yet, wait until tomorrow.

LG: It's okay. I just wanted to clarify where I coming from. Oops, we cross posted. I'm sorry you are feeling so anxious, but I think it is great you listened to your needs and sent your T a text.

Jane and Yaku: Hugs to both of you! I am often in the same place and I hate myself for needing T. That is why I said that I'm going to just let myself have the need instead of beating myself up about it (trying something different here!) and see what happens.

LG - Sorry you were having an anxiety attack. I think your flexibility with yourself in knowing your needs and being willing to allow yourself to reach out to have them met is actually a really GOOD sign. That flexibility is a sign of learning kindness with yourself and the truth and wonder of life always grows somewhere between the rigid extremes we have learned to expect for ourselves!

STRM - Cross-posted there.

I have days where I can tell myself it's OK and I will text him, "Just want to reassure myself that you're there. Feeling very needy and that hurts, but letting Jesus be with me in my pain." But, those are few and far between right now. Definitely something we can all work on together.

I hope your anxiety is lessening, LG-

(((((LG)))) Why do we all beat ourselves up so much for needing? Sorry you are having such a bad day. LG, I wanted to talk about something that you mentioned above, about needing to start the separation process already. Maybe you haven't completely attached yet? Maybe you have to be attached for some time before you separate? JW. I think I've been fighting the attachment like you but I just finally said to myself, maybe I just have to give in to it and accept it? That's a new thought this week so I don't know if it'll help with my anxiety.

Jane, I totally related to your post. I know the spiral well. My T won't give me boundaries re: phone calls but has never gotten mad and actually has been very responsive when I've called. Wouldn't it be nice to have a boundary? What if I let myself just call or reach out whenever I want and at some point he gets angry with me? I'm someone who needs rules to follow. This therapy thing is sooo hard.

If I write a T to text now, but save it to send if I still feel like it later, does that count?

I'm thinking of just writing him a very honest text that I'm feeling blue, alone and wanted to feel connected without getting myself all freaked out about how bad I am for not being OK on my own. I know that God is a Father who is there for me when I'm lonely and broken and that T is available if I need him too and that thinking that he is out there saying a prayer for me helps me to claim those truths.

Why is saying such things so much more painful than just hating the need? It gives me a deep ache in my chest to express it. And why do I keep imagining I'm going to scare him away?


UPDATE: Made it past 2:00 pm my time, and that's good enough for me, so sent him a text admitting I just wanted to connect and not feel alone. Trying not to freak out about it whether or not he responds.

Yaku ~ well done!!! You should be proud of yourself for reaching your goal you set for you and then sending a very authentic honest text to your T. I know it may feel crummy right now, wading through that wanting and needing to connect with your T, oh, I so know that feeling well... hang in there and give yourself a pat on the back for facing really hard stuff

Yaku,

I think that is great. It's a win-win. You made your goal and you reached out to him to get a need met.

Yeah, actually struggling really hard to not have a bad reaction to it. It's so funny. I thought maybe the bad reactions were mostly about having a good enough reason to be OK getting his attention, but even being completely honest that I just need to connect, I still struggle with wanting to berate and hurt myself over it. Maybe I'm just scared of really connecting what that means. Oh well, off to learn a bunch of songs for band practice tonight. Hope they don't make me actually play on Sunday!!! Thanks so much for all the encouragement. ((((((((hugs all around))))))))

Finishing up day 8 of my new "absolutely no contact" policy. Drying up. Still very unsure if this is a good thing I am doing or not..

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
Finishing up day 8 of my new "absolutely no contact" policy. Drying up. Still very unsure if this is a good thing I am doing or not..

Hey, BB. Congrats on meeting your goal. maybe you should make a pro and con list of what was good about it and what wasn't.