Hi HIC -

I'm with your T, it's not evil.

My T works w/ ego-states and also has what I think is a great look at human behavior.

Here is the thing - we all have good and light in us in various amounts. My T will readily acknowledge her stuff (including that sometimes she does things with malicious intent - in her personal life I'm assuming haha) and we talk about those parts in me too. Sometimes my T and I can go on elaborate tangents about some of my fantasies (like throwing people driving me nuts at work out the window - obviously something I would never do... but do I people like people are annoying sometimes and DO want to throw them out a window? Heck yes!). I wouldn't believe a person for a SECOND who says they think wonderful, non-shameful things constantly. I'm also very kind, loving, forgiving, sensitive, etc.

I'm so glad you are talking about your "shadow" sides in therapy, and I hope your T will continue to normalize them. I completely understand not wanting to accept them. I think the difference is in thoughts and actions. Actually DOING what you're thinking isn't always the right choice - sometimes it is - but thinking whatever you want is not wrong. My T has said before... that it's the ones that can't acknowledge and believe those sides exist that are to be concerned about.

This is just my belief and my treatment team subscribes to it also.

HIC,

It would be delusional to assume that you only had good parts to you. Part of being human is acknowledging that we are not perfect. So what I would say is the fact that you are acknowledging your "weaknesses" (I refer to them as weaknesses not evils) allows you the possibility of working on improving yourself as a human being. The person who disowns or avoids acknowledging their weaknesses is essentially never going to be able to improve on those aspects of themselves. That does not mean that they go away, it simply means that those weaknesses are then allowed to breathe and grow, even if that is in a passive state.

Every single one of us have our own weaknesses. Some are genetic, some are gained through the environment that we live, some are gained through past experiences and some are even learnt. To live successfully in terms of emotional growth requires us to constantly reflect on ourselves, our behaviours and our reactions to others.

Not one of us that is breathing on this planet is ever going to wake up - not even at the age of 96yrs old, and say I am without weakness. Cut yourself some slack, and yes, work on your weaknesses but don't expect them to simply disappear or never resurface.

B2W

((((HELD))))

I agree with your T and with what everyone else said. I was wondering if you could use your "character failings" in order to learn more about yourself and as, the others said, be more self-accepting.

For instance, you recognize that you have known yourself to be

quote:

petty and materialistic on the one hand, and some other feelings that are malicious, vindictive, and contemptuous

Maybe if you find yourself feeling vindictive, you can recognize that there was a part of you that was hurt by someone and that it's okay to feel hurt. And that feeling hurt will protect you if you learn to listen to those feelings. It could be that a lot of those feelings come about as a reaction to unmet needs.

I only know a little bit about your background as you have talked about it here I know you were raised in a very religious environment. I was as well and can relate to the desire to be virtuous. I think when we hear this stuff as it's pumped into us as children, we can easily misinterpret what it means and strive for an ideal that doesn't really exist. But there might also be a huge misunderstanding on the part of the some religious communities and parents (like my Dad), especially in the past, as to how best to instill values in children in a way that psychologically healthy, in a way that incorporates and accepts our humanness with all its failings. That's heavy stuff for little children.

Oh, and please give us plenty of advance notice if you have intent on killing innocent strangers. LOL!

(((HIC)))

Just as our Ts model the good stuff, sometimes they also model the bad stuff. I think this gets down to the reason why some ruptures, as long as they are repaired in a healthy way, can be very beneficial to the relationship with a therapist. Especially if the rupture was due to a mistake or a misstep on their part, because we can see that they are human like us and have all of the negatives along with the positives. My T has told me of a few times where she was just a "normal" human being, one where she saw a man and judged him based on how he looked but then was told that he was actually a very nice person. She doesn't shy away from admitting those things, and I think it's in an effort to let me know that it's okay to not always be "good" (even though I keep trying! ).

A month or two ago, she said something to me that she later apologized for because she recognized it as mean - even though I didn't think of it as mean, really, and I didn't mention anything about it. Anyway, she even brought it up in our last session as an example of the inherent character flaws in humans and said that sometimes she's even mean, even though she doesn't always consciously realize it at the time.

So your T can be okay with those parts, because as everyone else has mentioned, they are what make you human. I know it's hard to accept them - I haven't accepted mine and still work hard to keep them from my T - but it helps to at least see that my T won't judge me for them if and when I do finally talk about it a bit.

(((hugs)))

Not much to add but a little (hopefully) funny -

My T compares my brain to confessional - I am constantly frequently often thinking horrid thoughts, generally wishing bad things upon myself, or thinking mean things in general. I used to frequently confess these things to my T, and her response was always the same - "as long as you don't act on any of those thoughts, it's fine to have them." Totally freaked me out to hear her say that - I mean here, these are horrible thoughts, and she's telling me they're ok? I thought she was nuts! But confirmed by everyone here, it seems par for the course. Ts are human, just like us. Humans all have crabby phases, including Ts. As long as we don't act on that or take our crabbiness out on others (or ourselves) seems to be totally normal....

(((xoxo))) (((cat))) (((born2write))) (((Liese))) (((kashley))) (((Room2Grow)))

Thank you all so much for these kind, insightful, thoughtful-- not to mention accepting -- replies. Wow. I've been mulling on your words all day and wish I had something detailed to say in reply to each of you, but learning to think in these ways is so alien that I find I don't have a lot to say as yet. I'm more just trying to soak it all in and consider different ways of relating to these shadow parts. I think I'm a little afraid to accept them. It feels wrong. On the other hand I can understand the idea that acceptance and acknowledgement is healthy, and perhaps has to precede transcendence? I suppose there is a lot there to consider.

On a possibly-not-unrelated note, yesterday I had my first touch from T, after the conversation I described. I think I've mentioned on here before that I have no idea what her policy on touch is and that I've never asked or cared. . . I tend to feel touch avoidant around her (even though I really like her) and will often instinctively shrink into myself if she comes within a few feet of me for whatever reason. lol. We've never even shaken hands, in over a year of weekly therapy.

Well, anyway, near the end of my session yesterday I had to set Baby down on his blanket on the floor to change his diaper. After I changed him (and went to wash my hands while T "babysat" for a couple minutes, lol) I came back and instead of sitting back down in my chair, plopped on the floor next to him and was kind of interacting with him while continuing to converse with T. She quickly joined me on the floor, just two feet away at the most. I was playing with Baby's feet and she reached out a hand to squeeze his little toes. Her hand touched mine and she left it there for several moments. I didn't react or pull away and we just kept talking. It was very casual and natural. She was just lightly holding Baby's foot and letting her hand rest against mine. I don't remember who moved first. . . probably it was Baby kicking his foot.

Perhaps I am reading too much into it to connect the two things, but I'm seeing it now as maybe an extra show of acceptance after hearing me talk so frankly about my inner nasty side. I think that is pretty cool if so. T is so good for me.

It's also interesting because I've read so many stories on here from people talking about how surprisingly connecting sitting on the floor with their Ts has been. This is the first time T's ever joined me there. It was pretty cool.

Hmm, I suppose that little therapy anecdote is only tangentially related to my original post, but I think it does frame the conversation with T in it's therapeutic context and was hence interesting.

Thanks in any case for reading my ramblings, peoples, and for your help as always!

All the best,
Heldincompassion

I like to think that even the "darker" parts of ourselves have some kind of positive intent to them, even if it's usually misguided.

For example, feeling vengeful means you want people to know they can't get away with doing horrible things, so they will think twice about it in the future. Sometimes we are mean because we are trying to protect ourselves, or because some part of us wants the other person to experience how we feel when people are mean to us.

I think being a whole person means accepting our dark sides, knowing how to manage them, and finding balance with them, rather than trying to get rid of them, because I don't believe that's even possible.