((LL))

I'm sorry you've run aground with current T. It is so frustrating to hear that you haven't found a good T when you are so good at articulating what you need and want in a therapy relationship.

I have no good ideas about what would make a good T. I think I have one and therapy is still incredibly difficult and frustrating. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

That is an awesome list, LL...thanks for it, it really clarifies what a perfect therapy would be, and it puts it well, any therapist should be trying their best to achieve this. And I think that many do, at times, but certainly not able to do all of this consistently, and every time. Your post reminds me of how it is to play a musical instrument..truly. If I were to play in a way that was satisfactory to myself and perfectly pleasing to others I would have My physical technique just right, my control would be good, the rhythm correct, articulation perfect, posture good, facial expression not too distracting and about ten or twenty other factors that would make for really terrific music. It might sound corny but I think a really talented T is like a virtuoso...and the client is like the instrument the virtuoso plays. Hmmm I guess that is pretty corny, sorry. But...I still think there is a lot of truth in it. You've given me an awful lot to ponder here. I'm kind of in the same boat as you are, just thinking that a therapist may not be able to help me with whatever it is that I need help with, but that the pain of giving up and living with nowhere to turn, this is too difficult to bear. You will find a T who you are able to heal with, regardless of if they are perfect or not... I have faith that it will happen soon. It is possible that some healing may come just through tolerating the discomfort and pain that their inevitable mess-ups cause...and communicating those painful experiences, communicate slowly, perhaps, the deep pain that is underneath the anger at their lack of understanding and poor responses.

If you are inclined to tell it, I'd like very much to hear your story..about the current T. I've been really wondering how things were going with you. Missed you.

Many hugs,

BB

Hey thanks Incognito, Beebs, Monte and BG for your replies.

Incognito, I really hope you can get over the awful situation with your T (as in your other thread), and I do hear you saying how difficult and frustrating it is, even with a good T. I guess I’d just like to be in a position where it got frustrating and difficult, but know that that’s part of the healing process, rather than be feeling it all before therapy even starts!

Beebs I love your metaphor of a good T being a virtuoso and the client the musical instrument (maybe not so finely tuned though!) and yes, the whole rhythm of therapy playing out very much like a carefully nuanced piece of music. The notion of ‘two are one’ comes to mind, just as it would be with a musician and his instrument, the whole greater than the sum of its parts… hm could get a bit carried away here. Thanks for that! Also wanted to say, that I do believe it’s possible to ultimately get what we need, the one positive thing that’s come out of all my T searching is that I’ve become much clearer about exactly what it is that I need – which makes it much easier to bring that to a prospective new T (and ascertain whether they are a decent musician or not!) I’d really push you not to give up yet in looking for a T who could help you, it’s well worth it even if just from the point of view of its letting you learn about and understand yourself more and more.

Hello there Monte, love the way you describe your T and how you view therapy (I’ve read your other thread and think you’re doing amazingly, something magical has happened for you and it’s wonderful to read about it.) Lol I very much relate to seeking the Consistently Perfect Response – but I also think that’s actually an important thing to do – because it’s the gauge which tells us what it is we’re wanting, not getting, never got, need, etc… I think it’s so much healthier to openly pursue the perfect response than to have to stuff it away as something not possible to get while telling ourselves we shouldn’t be so naïve and selfish and immature as to expect gosh Perfection! I do like some of the qualities you are talking about in a T (and in client as well, though I’d hope to learn those as I went along rather than to have to have them in place first in order for therapy to work) – humility definitely, and patience, and a genuine love or liking for people, it would be hard to see a T as being very effective without those qualities. Sounds like you have a nearly perfect T there Monte

Oh BG, exactly right – challenging per se is not ‘bad’ (though at the beginning of therapy I think it’s totally out of place – I’ve had therapists ‘challenge’ me right in the very first session!) it’s when it arises in the context of an attuned and trusting relationship, as you say, that it can be useful. I guess it also depends on how the challenge is presented, it would be very easy for a therapist to make a habit of being challenging, which I think is lazy and could indicate a lack of patience in the T. But I’m not comfortable with being challenged in therapy, I haven’t found it helpful to me at all, so I’m biased here



So ok I want to clarify that the list above is the result of more or less idle thoughts that came to me as I was sitting here thinking about all the different Ts I’ve seen over the years and wondering what the T-for-me would be like. I hear the comments about Ts not being perfect, but I suppose my situation is that I’d be happy to get even SOME of what’s on my list, it’s ok to accept flaws and errors on a T’s part, but that’s supposing the T is actually doing/being positive in some therapeutic way in the first place.

To elaborate – not one single T I’ve ever seen has bothered to try and understand what goes on in my head – they have unanimously taken the position of applying what they consider to be the ‘norm’ and attributed motives/feelings/beliefs/intentions to me based on that model of normality, despite my repeated attempts to clarify and articulate what my real motives/feelings/pathology etc were. I find it really really odd that a T can presume to make comments, interpretations, suggestions even judgements about me without knowing who I am, without even bothering to ask questions about me and my background, and especially without getting me to clarify what I mean when I’m desperately attempting to get them to understand something about me (I do not for one moment believe that a T can spontaneously understand the context and meaning of what a client tells them without getting the client to elaborate further, so any T who presumes that they understand without clarifying that understanding (‘reality checking’) is arrogant and incompetent at best, really destructive at worst. Arrogant because the sign of a good T (or person for that matter) is one who recognizes they don’t understand and is willing to admit that and to actually seek understanding...

So anyway, I took the above list and read it to my T today I’m at the point in therapy now where I’m not prepared to piss about naively assuming that actually the T does know what s/he is doing in regards to my set up, so I’m pretty bolshie now about being up front about what I think I need. Not sure what the outcome of today’s session will be, but it’s a big plus in my new T’s favour that he remained very calm and mild throughout and took it all very seriously. He said after I’d finished reading it, that we were actually ‘singing from the same sheet’ (ack I hate clichés) but that the real problem lay in HOW to do it… well to me it’s bloody simple and obvious, but the good news is that he’s more than willing (so far anyway) to keep hearing my criticisms and demands so that’s got to be a good starting point… (my need to feel free and safe to express anger directly at a T being met very nicely here, that’s major brownie points for this T.)

I’ll get around to posting about my new T some time soon, I’ve been very reluctant because I know people must be sick of hearing that I’ve found myself a new T only to post x amount of time later announcing that it’s all finished. Actually I’m sick of hearing about it myself lol. But also, I’m not sure enough yet that this new T is going to work out (I have one session where I come away feeling positive, to three sessions where I think oh crap this guy is hopeless), so don’t want to tempt fate and all that…

Ideally I’d have liked people to use this list as a kind of springboard to say what they consider are plus points or essential things about a good T, we’ve got a thread on red flags in therapy, so I thought it might be useful to have a thread on the positive things to look out for, might help newbies might help those of us who are having to find new Ts, lol might just be interesting full stop…

LL

LL,

This might be assumed from your list but I would add that the T lets the client go at the client's pace. My last T pushed me too fast to face abandonment issues I didn't know I had and I couldn't handle it and started to have panic attacks. She herself had been to 28 T's before the 28th one "straightened" her out, as she said. When I left her, she also told me that I needed someone more "motherly". I think because of her own frustration in not getting the help she needed until the 28th therapist, she wasted no time getting down to brass tacks, which just wasn't the right approach for me. Maybe for someone else. Just not me.

Not in the least tired of hearing about your process LL, I assure you. I'm glad you liked my analogy and you are free to go wild with it...I was already thinking hmm, what if the T is a very inadequate musician, but the instrument he plays on is nearly perect...what if it's the other way around...what if the instrument is perect but just needs a tune up...aha, we could just go crazy.

I appreciate your list very much- and I will add... that the T needs to actually love their clients. There, I said it. I'm not talking romantic love, I'm talking about "caritas" and parental love. If the T does this, all while maintaining his or her T boundaries very carefully in the relationship, the T will actually find therapy with their clients to be a painfully giving, sacrificial experience. They would quite likely to take less clients as a result of this sacrificial pain, and function much more effectively as excellent healers, who don't make a buttload of money having 50 zillion clients doing it, but would live simply and in solidarity with those that they help.
Just my two cents.

LL- have you ever thought that this search for the right T for you might actually *be* your process? I've sometimes wondered if, when you find the T who is right for you, you will be nearly finished with your therapeutic work, and will then move on to become a T yourself!

(BB ducks as LL throws hard objects at her..)

Much love,

BB

Liese that makes perfect sense, a T going at the client’s pace rather than pushing them – I got that too with the last T I was seeing, I felt under incredible pressure to ‘perform’ ie expose painful feelings almost to order, without it being a spontaneous thing that should have emerged naturally in the course of the therapy. It’s funny how some Ts, even though they don’t overtly seem to be being directive, can actually direct the session in lots of different subtle ways.


Beebs yeah I reckon that being an effective T is not an easy job, how can a T operate like a sausage factory taking on clients with only a few minutes between appointments devote as much emotional energy and attentiveness as would be needed. Having said that, they have to make a living too, it can’t be easy.

Lol what you say in your last para, that’s not such a silly idea – I even said as much to new T yesterday that maybe this is ‘negative therapy’ all my running around trying to find the right T and in the process I’m learning so much more about myself and what I need and even that things really are shifting and changing in me as I go along. Lol but as for me ever becoming a T hell would freeze over first Though believe me I’m seriously considering writing a book like one of the many psychology/therapy books I read, only taking the stance that the client is the ‘expert’. You know, like writing out vignettes of ‘case histories’ and giving transcripts of sessions, but with the T as the one under scrutinty. Like ‘Dr x appeared to be struggling with feelings of inadequacy and issues of control though this was not immediately apparent in the first few sessions...’ he he he

LL

Haha, that would be pretty funny! Seriosuly you should write a book about your experiences...

LL, I think you have made a very good list and hopefully there are some therapists out there that can fulfill all of these. I'm sorry that you haven't felt heard and understood by any of your T's...that is very sad. I'm glad you shared this list with your T, and that he accepted it so calmly. I so hope that you can get your needs met and I look forward to hearing about it when you are ready.

Hugs
Butterfly

((((( Flutterby )))) thanks!

Hm I was just rereading my little list and I came across a contradiction - which seems to have opened up a bit of a can of worms for me.

It's where I'm going on about T never assuming s/he knows more than the client about anything. When I wrote that I meant it, but now I realize that I ALSO expect a T to definitely know more about a whole lot of things than I do, especially to do with feelings and how therapy works and stuff about me that I'm not aware of but is evident to T... so I've set myself up with a huge conflict there haven't I?

On the one hand NOBODY knows better than me who I am and what my motives and intentions and even feelings are, and I really resent anyone claiming to see something about me that I don't already know or can assume about myself. On the other hand, that kind of stuffs me doesn't it, because it means any T trying to tell me something about myself is going to be stonewalled. But again on the other other hand, I DO expect a T to gather it all up and 'know' stuff about me that maybe I'm not too aware of in the moment, so I can trust them to lead me to discovering it for myself in the end.

For some reason this feels big to me... but don't know where to take it.

LL