When T says related things, similar to that, it's hard for me to connect with or not feel disturbed by, because I think the attachment or any attempt to direct needs at my mother was abandoned extremely young. So, it helps me to kind of repicture the idea, to rephrase it in my head. Like, " The real dream is to have a safe mother who belongs to that child hold her." It helps me separate the long-established aversion to needing my particular mother from the truth of my needing a safe mother (that wasn't available). It's hard for me that I can't want my parents, the ones I "belong" to, in terms of who birthed and reared me...I sometimes feel guilty and broken that I can't connect to it almost at all with one patent and not at all with the other. It doesn't mean the need, the want, the dream, of connection isn't true. There just isn't a context for that dream to make sense in the environment that really existed. But, yes, there is a real dream inside to connect with, feel safe with, be comforted and cared for by, parents that are mine and are capable of providing that environment. So it shows up in the closest to that environment we can find in our relationships. But the real dream is for it to have shown up where it belonged, where we could belong on that deep, permanent, being someone's child level. Does that make sense?

Ninn
I agree with Yaku,I think it's about wanting a different mother. When I have dug into my longing for my T to hold me (and trust me on this topic I have dug whole mine shafts ) it's really about wishing that I had had a father who was as safe as my T is, so that I would have been safely held as a child. I am NOT trying to say that your longing to be held for your T is not real. It's a real feeling and you are feeling it here and now. I just think the intensity of the longing and pain of not having it fulfilled are very much fed by the lack in your childhood.

I can think of wanting a hug from other people in my life that I might want a hug from and not being able to might be slightly disappointing but not the gut-wrenching agony that hearing no from my T used to inflict. He carries a symbolic weight that other people in my life do not. He told me once that he represents and is symbolic of what I didn't get and I think that's true. Which means that as much as it can feel like it would be true, his holding me would not do what I believe it will. On some level, it can feel like if he would just hold me than I would not have experienced that loss of a safe hug from my father. But it wouldn't; that loss is real and irreparable aside from grieving it.

But I know it still hurts. And the grieving sucks.

AG

I guess my experience of this is different than some people's. My real mother did hold me when I was little. She did not neglect my physical needs and was not "unsafe" in any physical way although I think she was often anxious and misattuned. My T has held me in reality (in ways that were appropriate and comfortable for both of us), and it feels different from how it would feel with my mom. T has talked about how our nervous systems interact and I've started to think there's something in that. My T's body and nervous system are calm and settled in a way I don't think my mom's ever have been, and from proximity with that my own body and nervous system can learn something different.

So in my case, although I was held by both of my parents when I was little, and I still hug my mom and have a relationship with her, I think I have gained something from physical contact with my T that I couldn't have easily gotten in a different way. Have I grieved the fact that my mom wasn't more attuned to me in the past? Yes. But I honestly think that the physical affection from my T has made me more open to being closer (to an extent) to my mom and taking in what she does give.

Hi, Ninn.

I totally get the repulsion when Ts make statements about longing for some maternal connection. My T says things that Yaku and AG have said all the time, and I just don't feel it. I want connection and someone to be close to, but I have a visceral reaction to any hint of desiring maternal care. I get the impression that my T thinks that's integral to the healing journey. I am not convinced yet.

BLT, I think you are making a lot of sense. I have had a wanting and longing of maternal affection my whole life but it just never made sense to me because my mom was of a similar make up to yours. I have had a lot of trouble accepting this about my mom and it really gets in the way of me moving beyond and grieving what I didnt get. The myth of my mom in my family was that she was super mom and I think I'm the only one who has a different belief on this.

My T has offered physical closeness and hugs but I just can't bring myself to accept that, even though like Ninn, I dream of it.

Very interesting thread Ninn and I totally get how you feel. It is confusing though. Good for you for going ahead and telling her your dream. Your much braver than I am.

((Ninn)) I too can relate. I've had dreams where my T is hugging/holding me and being maternal. Growing up, I attached to various older women and always had fantasies of them hugging me and comforting me. I eventually told my T of this fantasy and wish for her to hug me and comfort me when I'm upset, but I really never expected her to hug me. When I told her (I was drowning in shame the whole session), she said something like, "you don't think that can happen in here?" and I said, "probably not." She went on to talk about other ways I could feel held, like emotionally. So after that day, I just assumed she doesn't hug. But the longing just got stronger, and with that longing came the shame. I so understand the shame in admitting out loud (and maybe even to yourself) how much you just want to be held by your T. It's so confusing because, at least for me, it is a young longing intertwined with an adult longing.

One day, my T asked to hug me after a hard session. We've hugged at various times but not consistently. She's also talked about holding me when we were doing some inner child/IFS work. She's asked, can you feel me holding you? It was weird because I wanted to shout, NO! I want you to actually hold me in the here and now! Not just talk about holding my 9 year old self!! It was frustrating.

I think for me, my T's hugging has helped me be okay with showing emotion, expressing a need (through tears or whatever), and being comforted. This did not happen in childhood or adulthood for me. It's teaching me to be more emotionally authentic to and expressive with people in my life. As an adult, I've never cried in front of friends, family, etc - really only my T. I'm learning to become more emotionally open so that I can continue getting comfort in my real life. Even though I experience tons of shame, when I take a step back and look objectively, there's really nothing wrong or childish with longing to be held, be comforted. It can be a young longing (of course, it likely originated at a young age) as well as an adult one...it's a human need! I know how shameful this is though. I still struggle with feeling shame in relation to wanting/needing things from my T.

I neglected to say that when the longing to be held first came up in therapy (with my old T) I was terribly ashamed about it. With my current T, I have worked through a lot of that shame, and now when I dream about her holding me I wake up feeling happy and comforted by it. It's still hard for me to ask for the contact sometimes though.

I would be grossed out too at the suggestion it was my mother I 'really' wanted to hold me - no way.

Like. BLT - my mother held me too. In a lot of ways she was a so called typical middle class housewife married to a man of good standing in the community. She baked us birthday cakes and held us birthday parties. She knitted and sewed my younger sister and I matching outfits. She fostered our love of reading, took us to the movies, on picnics, ice-skating. In winter she even stood outside in the cold night and hosed the driveway for half an hour so it would freeze over overnight so my sister and I could play ice-skating on it in the morning. She woke us at 3am on a school night so we could see snow falling for the first time. She helped me decorate my bike to out into a competition (which I / we won). She filled out my baby book and kept all my birthday cards, gluing them into scrapbooks. She also keep our best baby clothes and blankets (I still have these). She would care to our scrapped knees and bee-stings. She would sit with us on the couch and hold us tight.

But she was also an alcoholic addicted to codeine and stole to support her habit, spending more than one afternoon in the prison cells and many convictions for stealing to her name. She lashed out when angry, gave me black eyes and bruises so sore I couldn't sit. She shut me in confined spaces and rubbed my face in my dirty underwear when I had an accident in them (too scared to come inside to use the toilet).

I don't even want the 'nice' mother in her to hold me in my dreams. I was very afraid of her and I truly believed she would kill me one day in one of her rages.

I agree with AG - it might not necessarily be your mother you want to hold you - but A mother - the type of mother you didn't have - one that meet your needs and left you feeling safe.

I can't speak for you, but if my T said that to me (that it's really my mother I who I wanted to hold me) I'd feel invalidated - I'd feel like she wasn't hearing me. I 'get' transference but I don't always think it is transference (if that makes sense). Maybe sometimes it IS our T we would like to hold us, because intuitively we know they'd make a better mother figure?

I think you're very brave sharing yr dream with your T; doing so opens up huge possibilities for exploring old pain and loss (with the chance if healing)