I am sorry I guess I am not as strong as I thought I was.

Hey turtle, I think it's a very good sign of health that your voice is getting stronger. Thank you for sharing what you did.

Hugs
TN

Thanks TN!

I will resist any urge to remove the thread.

I think it is an important topic. Even if people don't respond I think it's still a good thing to bring into the open.

Thank you for the thread Turtle.

I have a problem with the name. If I had depression it would feel like I had an illness and that wouldn't be my fault but a personality disorder is different. A personality is who someone is so it's me that's the problem not an illness. That's why I won't tell people what's wrong with me because it's me that's the problem not an illness.

Sorry for the ramble just wanted to express what I feel about BPD.

Daisy.

Thanks Draggers. The truth is that this is a phenomenal, groundbreaking CHANGE for so many people. It is FINALLY a beacon of hope in a diagnosis that has been treated so poorly by society and most importantly by the Psychological community. It is interesting to me that NOW that they know how to work with it and often times CURE it (yes cure it) they are embracing it, studying it, giving respect and validity to it. Before when it was not known how to help let alone whether it was possible to help someone with BPD the diagnosis was used as a professional insult. There are many many people who have been mistreated and indeed harmed by this attitude. I have to work to let the stigma go. I have to move on myself. And I am grateful to those like Marsha Linehan who have finally stepped forward and given this somewhat common, extremely painful disorder a boatload of hope.

It is basically the new thing in psychology to study the hell out of bpd and to treat it. FINALLY!! lol

((((Daisy)))

Thank you so much for responding. I know it's not an easy topic or an easy thing to admit that you are struggling with BPD. I know for a fact many people here have it but are too afraid to speak about it. It is a statistical fact that about 10 to 20 percent of the people who seek psychological help have been diagnosed with BPD. In the general population about 1 to 2 percent of the population has BPD.

I want you to know that it is being proven that this is NOT a personality disorder so much as an emotional regulation disorder. It is being proposed that the name be changed to that Emotional Regulation Disorder (ERD) I personally like what Judith Herman and other researchers in the world of trauma have wanted to call it for decades which is Complex PTSD. At least for me I can say that is the case. The reason they hold back on using that name is that apparently there are SOME people with BPD who have never been abused or at least not what the DSM classifies as abuse. HOwever the vast majority of them have been abused. And I can tell you this. Had you asked me 10 yrs ago if I had been abused as a child I would have said "no" It is not until after my parents died that I learned of a childhood full of abuse. So I truly wonder about people who have bpd who don't believe they were abused.

Anyway you are brave to post here. You bring up very good points. I think now that the treating psychological community (researchers, clinicians, physicians etc) have found the key to this disorder that we will see much of this stigma turn around.

There is hope Daisy. I promise you that.

I don't have enough of the criteria to warrant a diagnosis but I have suffered with enough borderline traits over the years to know how debilitating it can be to be to find it difficult to regulate your emotions and struggle with black and white thinking.

I agree that there is a stigma attached to BPD - I've witnessed it in mental health services certainly. Outside of mental health services, the general public really only understand what is fed to them via the media and don't distinguish between the disorders, which is a problem.

I don't believe BPD is untreatable or that people struggling are manipulative.

I was going to write more but I've got to run!

(((Turtle)))

quote:

Originally posted by turtle:
So I truly wonder about people who have bpd who don't believe they were abused.

Um, that would be me! Although my T would disagree with that as he says some of the situations I describe would be classed as abuse but I don't see my parents like that. Sure my mum had her own problems and would sometime ignore us and my dad had a problem with drink and could be unreliable but I don't class it as abuse. Not compared to what others go through and I've read enough just on this board to know that anything I went through is nothing compared to what others endure.

I like the name emotional regulation disorder as that fits how I feel at times. I just can't control my emotions and can so easily over react to a given situation.

While it is being seen as a treatable condition sometimes I wonder if I'm ever going to get better - 4 years in therapy and so little progress (sorry just having a very negative day)

It is funny how we make sense of things. I didn't go through something of the same magnitude as other people on the board either but I do believe my parents behaved abusively.

I guess that is the important thing about recovery. It's important to be able to define what happened to you, using your language and not someone else's. Not everyone wants to claim the abuse label. For me it felt therapeutic.

I'm sorry you're having a bad day Daisy. I like the term Emotional regulation disorder better too. I don't much like the term personality disorder either for similar reasons to you.

Daisy I hope your day goes much better.

There are prescribed treatments for people with BPD. But you want to make sure you actually have it. Have you ever had an assessment?

Anyway there are several proven and hopeful therapies that work with bpd. One of them is called DBT. There are others as well. Traditional psychoanalytical therapy is not the treatment of choice for treating bpd.

Hi Mallard

quote:

I guess that is the important thing about recovery. It's important to be able to define what happened to you, using your language and not someone else's. Not everyone wants to claim the abuse label. For me it felt therapeutic.

Yes that is a very wise statement. Very true. It is how it affected you more so than how bad it was compared to others etc. It was a huge relief for me to find out I was abused. I mean it was painful and I was scared for 2 months etc but in the long run it helped me to understand why I do things the way I do them. Why I duck whenever I am startled. Why I am startled so easily. Why I am triggered so easily as well. It just made things fall into place for me. It allowed me to finally have compassion for myself at a level I was unable to do prior to learning about the abuse.

this is the third time i've written this post, so i hope it actually makes it onto the board this time!

Turtle I'm really glad you wrote this.

Before I started working with current T in 2009 I was somewhat convinced I had BPD. I now realise I probably did but from the perspective that Otto Kernberg and Nancy McWilliams write about, rather than as laid out in the DSM V (which by the way pathologises grief if you're still upset two weeks after someone has died!!!!).

There are arguments that BPD resembles complex PTSD and given the high rates of trauma that seem to accompany borderline features, this seems more accurate.

It is a horrible, horrible way to exist. And it is existing, its not living. I am finally healing these terrible traumas inside myself so I would encourage anyone who is out there and struggling with borderline like states, if you are committed to healing, there is a way and it is possible with the right support. Don't give up because you cannot imagine how much better your life will be in the aftermath.

Hugs to all xxx GE

It is thought that BPD has a genetic beginning with an environmental component that can trigger it. The trigger does not have to be abuse. It can be an invalidating environment such that care givers do not know how to respond to an emotionally deregulated person/child. Abandonment is also a huge factor... adoption as an example.

Hi rebuilding Me

Thanks for responding. I have been reading extensively about BPD and the theories on it's epidemiology. It is true that a child a or infant can be born biologically more sensitive and then being in an invalidating environment can kick it off. However there are many different scenerios to this. It can be more biological or it can be more social. Sort of the nurture vs nature argument. There are different routes to getting to this disorder. It was explained to me that at least in my case it is mostly nurture rather than nature.

I have read that about the child being a challenge so they are more likely to be abused. I have a hard time with that because I feel it blames the child. Now I have had people tell me that it does not blame the child but it's hard for me not to see it that way.

I have 6 older siblings many were treated much the same way as I was and I don't think that they have BPD. They have other problems but not that. At least most of them don't have BPD. So that tells me that the abuse would have happened to me regardless. Plus my mom said I was a easy going child. I don't know it's a tough thing for me accept.

That last post may have come off as defensive. I really didn't mean it that way.

The truth is that it's all very complicated. All babies are born emotionally unregulated. It is through growth, experience and nurturing and environment that they learn how to modulate their emotions. No one is diagnosed with BPD as a child for this reason. The Bio-social theory (the popluar one today anyway) is that people who grow up to be bpd are often more sensitive, artistic, emotional etc to begin with. If they are then paired up in a family that is rigid, non-expressive, punishes strong displays of emotion etc They are taught young that they are unacceptable and then the person learns to try to modulate their emotions on their own turning to such things as suicide, self harm, drugs, dissociating etc etc and this is how the disorder starts to develop. That is one very strong theory that is popular right now.

Of course there are many different kinds of invalidating environments and families. So the possibilities for producing this disorder is endless unfortunately.

Well I finally met with the new T alone today. No secondary therapist there. Yet still it was further assessment. Ugh. However we did get to talk some. I was so happy to hear her say "I LOVE LOVE LOVE working with borderline personality disorder"!! I have never heard that come out of a T's mouth before. She said she works exclusively with people who have been severely traumatized and who also have BPD or DID. I feel better already. I feel like I can maybe get the help I need.

Okay now I feel stupid.

I sort of want my account removed.

(((Turtle)))

I am so glad new T has the skills and expertise and energy to work with trauma clients. I hope you can get help too and I certainly understand feeling better because I think hope is a very powerful emotion. I don't know why you feel stupid but I don't think you have any reason in the present to feel that way.

(((turtle)))

I think that's really good news about your T!! That sounds so hopeful and positive, and I imagine it must be so relieving to have heard that from her. I really hope you don't remove account!! please stay I don't see anything to feel stupid about, I think all of your posts and threads are so insightful, I love reading them. So many are rooting for you turtle. I also struggle SO SO much with shame and stigma (as you mentioned earlier in thread) when it comes to any diagnosis I get. (I haven't gotten BPD diagnosis, but I haven't had a thorough enough assessment to rule it out either, imo)

But even with C-ptsd I struggle with stigma feelings. For me, I have to constantly remember that there is truly nothing to be ashamed of, and any disorder does not define who you are, just like someone with a physical illness. The truth is, I really believe that those who have survived trauma and continued to forge a life of healing afterwards are some of the most remarkable people on earth. The bravest, strongest, most empathetic souls you will ever meet. (that includes you!!) I think society in general will always have strange and ever changing standards for how they view.. well, everything. Standards for beauty are ever changing, fads come and go on a whim. But they will catch up soon I believe on understanding the things they currently stigmatize. And I'm beginning to realize that the people who really matter are the ones who don't come with judgments and expectations to begin with.

I am excited to hear of your work with new T

AH

I am SOOOOOO happy for you turtle. I love your T already.

Hi turtle... I think what you wrote about BPD was helpful and insightful. We did a lot of writing about nature vs nurture in my psych classes. It is especially interesting to me as it relates to my FOO.

I am so thrilled you found a T who is not only experienced with BPD and trauma but also enjoys her work and is so ethusiastic about it. I think this is a very good sign and I hope things continue to move forward for you in a helpful and positive way.

And please know I'm always here pulling for you and supportive of your journey.

Hugs
TN

((((TURTLE))))

quote:

I have read that about the child being a challenge so they are more likely to be abused. I have a hard time with that because I feel it blames the child. Now I have had people tell me that it does not blame the child but it's hard for me not to see it that way.

It could be a nervous system thing. My second moved constantly in utero and that's how she is in life. My third was very sedate in utero and that's how he is in life although he cannot tolerate much stimulation and prefers things pretty sedate.

It took me a long time to learn to love my second - which is awful, I know. Her energy level is higher than mine and always has been. I love her like crazy now and can appreciate all the ways she is different than me.

My third seemed easy because he didn't demand a lot but that doesn't mean he didn't suffer. I thought he was okay when part of it was that he didn't know how to ask to get his needs met. So maybe that's what you were like as a kid.

Since I've been in therapy, I've been putting a lot more into my kids on an emotional level. Sometimes I see it as like blowing up a balloon. At some point, they will be able to stay inflated all on their own but someone has to put enough air into them first.

If your family was anything like mine, there was too much stress and my parents just had enough emotional energy to get by. There wasn't anything left over really for everyone. Yes, we all have our problems though they manifested itself in different ways. I think being the youngest can be a difficult position to be depending upon our relationships with our older siblings.

So glad you found someone who loves working with BPD. That's awesome.

i like this thread -- lots of good stuff in it. good soul food. please dont delete or feel need to apologize anyone. thank you for starting this turtle and all the others who have contributed.