Sadly,

You've made some astute observations over the years. I guess it all comes down to that there will be good therapists and bad therapists just like in any other profession. It might just depend upon whether or not you believe that most are benevolent in nature or just plain evil. Each one of us is, afterall, human, which translates to, IMHO, imperfect.

As a therapist wannabee, I find this post to be offensive, Sadly. I am one who both finds myself in therapy and also desires to someday attain my goal of being an LCSW. I realize that I need to work through all of my issues before I will be able to be a good therapist, that I must be healed before I can help others or else I will end up using them for my own healing. My own T has advised me the same, and because of this I struggle with the confidence to move forward towards this goal. I concede that currently I do feel inadequate. But I refuse to label myself as goods so damaged that I am beyond repair and beyond giving back. As I read through your list, I am sure there is some insight there into the characteristics of bad therapists. However, I also think any one of those items could potentially be used subjectively and with bias against a therapist, based upon the current mindset of a client who may be projecting these qualities onto a T. A client who is disgruntled with their therapist will look for justifications for his feelings. We all do this, myself included. Certainly there have been many examples on this board of clients harmed by their T's, you being one of them. But your list is so subjective that it could be used to discredit 99% of all therapists, if one was seeking to do so.

Hm...I tend to think the list is really insightful, but that it just doesn't describe therapist wannabees- it just describes every human person. We *all* struggle with this stuff, every one of us, to some extent or other- so anybody struggling with the items on this list could certainly still be a very effective therapist- as long as they learn to keep that hour with the client "sterile" and not allow these tendencies that we all struggle with, into that hour. (or 50 minutes) this requires training and hard work on the part of the therapist, right? And a good deal of (continuing) insight into the self, and human nature, which I think that you possess, MH.

the list can actually be used to discredit 99 percent of humanity. I sometimes am beginning to doubt that it is wise to give another person, no matter how well-intended that person is- *this* much power over us. It seems like a person getting corrupted by that kind of power is almost inevitable. But I speak from a very disillusioned place, right now. We are none of us "better" than another. Interesting discussion, Sadly.

Oh- the reality is that anybody choosing to spend their days trying to uncover what lies in another's unconscious has been in a great deal of pain themselves at some point, and receives something- some kind of validation, good feelings- a sense of connection- from helping others. That is no wrong! That is the source of healing! Wanting connection with others is healthy, and we give something "back" to our therapists when we let them help us, which is wonderful for all concerned. I don't think that therapists need to be "perfect" in their motivations to want to help others. But just, willing to work hard to keep that time with the client sterile.

Sadly, I'm confused by this post. What is the purpose of it? Are you addressing bad therapists "out there" in the world? Yet you call them "wannabees" so does that mean some student population you are involved in somehow? Then I wonder to myself what does that have to do with the forum. I guess I'm wondering why/how you and your husband have encountered all these therapist "wannabees".

I'd love to respond more thoroughly to your post but maybe if you filled me in a bit more on what you mean I can put together a response.

I do hope you are not directing this to any members here. There are quite a few of us here who are psych students (myself included) and this could be very hurtful and harmful to them.

TN

Very good point, TN- I know this post hurt me when I read it, and my initial reaction was that there would be people here very hurt by it, because lots of us have considered or are working towards becoming therapists, and yet are not fully healed enough to not assume that we possess all of these bad characteristics.

We need *not* have 100 percent perfect motivations, or be completely selfless in our approach to others, in order to still be able to help them, and receive something good and validating for ourselves, too. It feels good to help others, and to connect with those whose pain we can understand and help them to make sense of. I think that's a really good motivation for wanting to be a therapist.

Hi Sadly,

There are therapists out there who are horrible and do hide behind therapy to avoid their own problems. But there are also a lot of therapists (mine included) who go through their own healing in therapy and *because of that* they are better therapists. My T has frequently told me about experiences in her therapy that are similar to mine as a way to normalize the experience. Sadly, your list could be applied to pretty much any role in any profession where a person has some sort of superiority to someone else. Unfortunately, it does have the potential to be (and almost always is) much, much more hurtful in a therapeutic situation.

I agree with MH that this list could discredit pretty much every therapist. And it makes me wonder all the more what the purpose of this was. Like MH and TN and many others here, I am a psych student, a year from going to grad school. Sure, I often wonder what makes me so fascinated with psychology, but I'm trying not to question it. No kidding, every one of my friends in the psychology department are all in therapy or have been at some point. It's almost inherent with this field of study and profession that it's our own struggles that make us want to find ways to help others.

Most schools (in the US at least) require that students training to be therapists HAVE to go through a certain number of hours of their own therapy before they can even get near a client. Unfortunately, some don't, and that's where you get the Ts who use therapy as a way to hide. Most supervisors support the therapists but would never say anything that would hurt the client. If a supervisor saw something that the therapist needed to address, they would say it. Most training therapists cannot pick who their supervisors are, they are assigned one. I know this is all specific to the US, but I just wanted to put it out there.

Anyway, I'm not offended (and I hope it doesn't come across that way) because I know you have seen your fair share of bad therapists and are understandably hurt from it. Of course, certain items on your list make it feel threatening to post and also make me wonder if you'll take what I'm saying at face value. It would be very helpful if you could shed more light on this.

I am not in good enough a place to read your posts but I skimmed a few and i am interested in how defensive people are already. Obviously I struck a raw nerve.

I just wanted to say that I'm disappointed that it sounds like you are fine with provoking people and watching the reactions. I won't jump to conclusions as to the purpose of your original post, but your response to all of the posts makes me wonder. Perhaps a better thing to do would have been to come back and only post once you feel able to respond in a way that addresses some of the questions raised here.

Sorry I'm late to the party, but DF and Kashley already said what I wanted to (thanks Ladies!)

Sadly? What WAS this about? Cause right now from where I'm sitting it's hard not to ascribe ill intention to your posting this. An explanation (other than we're a bunch of defensive, reactive, projecting people) would be welcome as I hate questioning any poster's intention on the forum and would prefer to believe this a gross error in communication.

AG

Edited to remove reference to bad language. Sorry.

The only thing I can say is that she did mention clients in one part of her list. SO I was thinking maybe she meant an actual licensed therapist??

But to me to be proud of the fact that one has healed or done a lot of psychological healing is great. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. MOstly because it takes a lot of work to get there.

I want to thank everyone for being so candid here. I saw this post yesterday and wanted to crawl into a hole....as I am one of those sad pathetic psych students. I am now angry and embarassed that instead of recognizing this post as offensive, I internalized the messages and began wondering what was wrong with me (again). Good for all of you strong women!! I don't want anyone else to question themselves any more than they already do.
seablue

You know the real shame about this thread? Some of the points you made were valid in a sense and worthy of discussion. As someone who has been severely wounded and done significant work to heal, I would want to question my motivation about becoming a therapist and what I was seeking from it. I remember talking to my T and asking his opinion of me possibly becoming a therapist and I expressed the fear that I couldn't keep my own stuff out of the room. His response was that everyone has to do that. That he felt that people who had done significant work in therapy often made good healers because they understood from the inside. He believed in the model of the wounded healer; that though the flow needs to go always towards the patient, there are two very human people involved.

And the power structure of therapy and the responsibility that goes along with it should make any ethical person question their motivations. All human beings struggle with the temptations inherent in having power over others, therapists are no different, although the consequences may be more far reaching.

It would have been a good discussion to engage in if not presented the way it was.

I have done a lot of reading about recovery from childhood abuse. One of the biggest ways that people are damaged by CA is socially. Trust and relationships get warped and destroyed. Essentially one must relearn how to relate as an adult. It's like having a stroke and having to teach yourself how to talk, write or walk again. So, when I read these messages here I try to keep that in mind. That we are all struggling on one level or another to connect and sometimes that connection eludes us.

quote:

It would have been a good discussion to engage in if not presented the way it was.

agreed.

AG, ... and Liese????

Sadly, I just read this post... and to be honest, I'm confused.

Can you do me a huge favor? I have a really hard time dealing with indirect things, and this is confusing. It feels like is could indirectly be about people on this forum or this as a whole and it could include me or not me. I also seems like you could be implying or intentiong a lot of things, but I don't know, and I'd really appreciate it a lot if you could clarify what you mean by this thread.

I can tell you how it is comming across to me, but I'm not sure if it is how you mean that or not.

This is just me speaking from my own broken self and stuff: but in the mix of this I think I suddenly wonder if I was included in people you are talking about or not. I'm not sure why I wonder this. I just do. And because your post comes across as very negative nad critical and harsh (which is may not be and you may not intend it to be) but my feeling like maybe it is... well, I'm really concerned maybe more than is fitting for what you posted. Either way, clarification of what you posted would REALLY help me out.

I am not a therapist-wannabee. Additionally, I'm really ok with therapist-wannabees.

I have bene involved in various support groups, and I act the same way othe rpeople in those support group models work as I do here... and I wonder, do I fit in your definition? DO you see me this way?

Btw, I think in the US at least, "wannabee" is usually taken as a pretty big put down and a very harsh thing to say to anyone. I'm not sure if this is true in the UK or elsewhere, but that threw me off. Therapist-hopefuls probably would have made this post sound different a little. Or some other kind of language.

Also, when it comes from you, when you of all people use such a term here, when you have said here on the forum and on your blog that you link to, that you have been a professional in the therapy field, it feels very different to me when you talk about therapist wannabes... like it's a lesser category of people... and one that doesn't include even you, because you have been not a therapist wannbe. It seems like you could be implying that, but I could be doing A LOT of reading inbetween the lines.

It seems clear that you, and your H who is not here commenting, that wannabees are not people you like.

If you are talking about how you feel and respond to people who you observe these things in, then that's one thing. But I'm confused because I amd like missing something here (sorry if I misunderstand).

I think the hardest thing about your post for me, the fact that I don't know if you are talking about people here in an indirect way, or if you are talking about other people in your life.

I'm not sure what the intent of your post is. Are you venting? Are you wanting feedback? Or you just wanting to be heard? Are you expressing an opinion? Are you talking about things you have observed here? Are you...

Ok, so I'm a little thrown by the language you started off your post with. Let me try to look at it in a more through way.

quote:

Me and my husband have had interactions with these over the years and are getting quite good at spotting them.

To me, this is comming across in a way like you know better than others. And you may very well have a better radar on picking up on these kinds of things people do than some others. Just like some therapists are better than others at some things, and some people are better at others at some things. Just like if you were better at others at picking up on certain things, that doesn't therefore mean you think you are better than others. In some cases for some people, yes, being good at one thing or one area of life, can lead to them having the false idea that they are better in general than others (and this happens in all walks of life with all kinds people in all kinds of professions and all kinds of people in non-professional roles.

I have an aquaintenence who is very good at biking. He is good at it! He races and wins often. He also has deep insecurities. He admits that whenever those deep insecurities are touched on, he focuses on his biking even more and tends to use it in a way to reassure himself he doesn't suck as much as he feels he does. He has even admitted that he at times does begin to feel like he is better than other people in general. (He admitted this as something he works on but does often.)

quote:

There are people who feel inadequate and find that being a therapist, or training to be a therapist meets their own needs for validation and feeling ' better' than other people.

Yes, I am sure this happens in the therapy profession. Same for many other professions, atheletes, roles, things people do... In my experience this is not unqie to therapy.

It sounds like here you are talking about people training to be in therapy or actual licened practing therapists. But then before, you used the term therapist "wannabees" - or let's use the less offenseive term people who want to be therapists.

People who want to be therapists, actual therapists in training, and therapists themselves, and people who are just being friends and supporting each other as such - I know for a fact that people in all these places in life do particpate on this forum. ALL of them. Generally, everyone does it as a part of working through their own stuff. By what you posted here, I'm wondering... do you think this is a bad thing for people to do this here? if so, can you help me understand?

quote:

I am sure (and in fact know for a fact from a collgeue who was a therpist that being a therapist helped him face his own insecurities

I'm not surprised. My T has said the same. In fact all three Ts I have seen individually, as well as two Ts out of amny at a tremanet center I was at, they have all said some version of this. It's also an idea that is actually theraputically used to help clients in what is called... oh I think it is the ACT model of therapy...? That doesn't sound right. I'll go find the link and paste later.

quote:

and he struggled to remind himself he didn't have it all together and wasn't better than others.

Honestly, there are things in my life offline that I can get very defensive about and think I know the right answer. They don't have to do with therapy, but other things (which I have never mentioned on here). And yes, I have found myself at moments having to remind myself, no, I don't know what is right in a way that makes me better. I don' conciously think oh, I'm better than them... but it can come out in a subtle way, and it stops when I remind myself they are human, I am human, and we are all broken people trying to make it through this life the best we can. So I would have to say that in a way, I'm not a T, but I am still guilty of doing this in other areas of life. I recently talked with my extremely intutaive T about it, and she was honestly surprised to find out I can feel like I have described right now. It can be that subtle.

As far as Therapists, they are human. Of course they too have their own stuff and insecurities Some are better than others at containing it and not letting it affect the therapy - which is the key thing. It is sad when a therpist thinks they have all the answers, and frankly, there are quite a few out there. It is terrible when they let it afect the therapy in very bad ways. And yes, this happens. I think most good Ts know there is a natural human tendency to get caught up like this, and work really hard to be humble and know their own stuff as a way of keeping themselves not onlu humble but even more effective Ts. Just my opinion and something I have seen with my limited experience in therapy.

quote:

It is a subtle thing but often strikes people IN therapy and they just can't seem to help themselves...

Now you are not talking about therapists, but people in therapy. On a forum for people who are working on their stuff, most in therapy or had therapy or will get therapy. (Including therapists and therapists in training who are on this board who are here not in that role but here working on their own stuff.)

So this is why again, I think you are talking about people here, or at least a category of people - that category being "people IN therapy". That includes just about everyone here. (As well as even more people not here on this forum.)

I have also seen you write before about "mentally ill" people in a way that you clearly meant as signifying that they were not people you wanted to be around, and something you felt that they were based on just walking by them in the hall, and you said this on this forum where frankly, there are a lot of mentally ill people, including myself. There have been other times where you say something like that about people, an "obversaton you make" and a label you apply to them... that happens to be labels that apply very accurately to many people here... and are not labels that should be applied lightly nor people that should have various assumtions about them made or people to not want to be around just because they fit that label or perceive to fit that label. You have done this before as a pattern, and it's ok... like it's not good, but hey, it's not like the worst thing in the world... but I bring up this pattern, because in a way, it feels like you are labeling a group of people again, and might be consideirng yourself not within that group, and you speak very negatively of that group, and it's confusing. U'm not sure if that is what your are doing or intending to do here. I also have my own very biased perspective on things and could not be seeing or understanding clearly what you are being very clear about and jumping to wondering (not conclusions) about what you mean or intend or are saying or what your purpose is... (were you just venting?)

Ayhow, you are talking about someting that "strikes" or happens for people in therapy sometimes.

It's hard for me to not assume that you believe that it is something that strikes people here on the forum. Yet you don't name anyone, or any specifics, or say it includes people here or not - and that feels indirect and indirect is hard for me to follow and makes me a little alarmed (which is just me and my own stuff).

quote:

1. They have wounds and are feeling vulnerable so they hide behind trying to be a therapist like THEIR therapist and it gives them a sense of being important
2. they use the being 'special' as an aid to subtly feeling superior so that their own feeling of inadequacy can be soothed.
3. they really do believe they are healed and they feed off their new found status.
4. they like to be more 'inportant' than other people in most situations but play this down by acting quite humble
5. they are very good at worming their way into this therapist or assistant therapist role.
6. They like to get the authority or be in the 'boss' role or something similar.
7. they can appear very together to their clients but people who know them, know they are very messed up and cannot imagine them being therapists and really feel horrified that they are.
8. they seek out supervisors who affirm their perspective and stroke them.
9. they are adept at cleverly putting down others who might threaten their position and role.
10. their construct of themselves as 'healer'/therapist is an important part of their self identity and are very protective of this.
11. they can feel easily threatened but often go on the attack so cleverly that the other feels put down and backs off.

Everyone of your 11 points involves what seems like to me, lot of what a friend of mine (who is psychologist who teaches at a private school nearby) as "mind-reading." To him, mind-reading is where "we" assume UNSPOKEN/unsaid/unwritten intentions and hearts, behind actions, especially specific categories of people or specific people AND we don't check with those specific people or cetegories if that is what they actually feel, but decide it as fact.

I know this becasue I do it. I have done it in the past. I try not to, but I have. It's not generally good for me to do, and I work hard to try and ask if something I wonder might be someone intention or heart behind something they do or say is what their intention or heart is.

And that's what I am trying to do here with you now.

It seems like your post implies a lot of things not said, says of a lot of things that feel really... sorry lacking for the word to sum it up well... , and it seems like you could indirectly be saying stuff about this forum or not. It feels like some kind of indirect attack, but I don't really know if you really mean it that way.

So that is why I am asking you - please, can you clarify this for me? I'd really appreciate it if you could if/when you might have a chance and some time to respond.

sorry about this being rambly. I'm tired and zonked today but really wanted to say something since I got alarmed by what I am likely misunderstanding about what you mean to be saying or implying here and what you intend.

hugs to you
jane

Canyou not use rude language here to me, in England that is considered hugely offensive. I am not posting about any one here, I did not know any of you were trainee therapists, I am talking about people here around me who have and are so caught up in these patterns that they don't see and I thought you would all appreciate the list so that you can spot them. Little did I know that most of you felt that you were actually like this./ Maybe this speaks more about you - it certainly has hit such a raw nerve that I would perhaps suggest that there is some truth in this list about yourselves to cause such anger and abusive language at my innocent post;.

Sadly - who are you responding to and what are you responding to? I'm sorry, I just don't follow.
jane

everyone - oh, I should probably clarify that I ready Sadly's first post, read for any other responses or possible clarifications by you, sadly, and posted what I did as a response to that. I just wanted to say how the initial post came across to me. I have read through now everyone's input. Honestly, I feel like I am totally missing something. I'm just really confused by all of this. I really don't mean to post something out of sync with the thread, and please, understand my first post on this thread was to kind of take a step back and look at the orginial post by Sadly and figure out my own response to it. My post isn't in response to anyone other than her first post. I am considering though what others have said. Thanks everyone for the input. I hope maybe we could turn this into a "good discussion" that it could have been It appears it hasn't started off that way or gotten there yet, but maybe we can try. Maybe it's just too much right now for people. I don't know.

Sadly - you are on a forum where people are working through all kinds of issues. Just because people respond strongly, that doesn't mean you are right or wrong or others are right or wrong. People get triggered. We all have our own stuff. I know you know this...

Maybe we can take a deep breath together and learn form this. I am very curious about what you wrote, and yes triggered too, and I'm facing and owning the fact that I have been triggered and I'm also asking for clarification, because I could be trioggered by things you are not even implying... that's all...

and yes, if there are words that are offensive to the britsh, or even if it's "just" you, by all means, please do let us know. It's important. I doubt anyone here means to offend you and I doubt you mean to offend us. I just mentioned the wannabee thing to maybe help explain that oh, maybe you don't know that can be see sometimes as a put down in the US, and that maybe you didn't mean it in an offensive way, and people might be responding extra strongly because of that - and we can clear that misunderstanding up. That's all.

jane

Sadly, it seems like you are assuming that any defenses anyone has about your list automatically means that they have those problems. *Please* take a step back and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. How would it feel if you wanted to be a therapist out of a *genuine* desire to help people and were in the midst of your own healing and then read something like this? Something that implies that aspiring therapists are only finding a way to fix themselves?

It seems completely natural to me that anyone who wanted to be a therapist but has full knowledge that they have lots of work to do on themselves will have doubts about their goals. Goodness knows I do. So, *of course* this hits a raw nerve!!! It speaks to every doubt that I have in myself. So just because it is hurtful, does that mean that all of those things are true about me? Does it mean I'm trying to find ways to feel superior?

To be completely honest, I really debated with myself posting on this thread at all, because #11 is a protection against seeing the other side of this argument: "they can feel easily threatened but often go on the attack so cleverly that the other feels put down and backs off." I guess this is just my clever attack.

Honestly Sadly...I *tried* to put myself in your shoes. Maybe I'm just not getting it. But it seems like it would be courteous if you could do the same and try and see where I and the others are coming from.

I want to acknowledge that I am very much a part of the problem here, but may I suggest we all take a deep breath and step back.

Sadly, I think it is clear that there are a lot of people upset with your post. It is, of course, a possibility that everyone got triggered in the same way and all acted defensively to your post as you seem to be proposing (I think, please clarify if I am mistaken). But I would respectfully request that you also examine your behavior to see if you bear some part in the responsibility for what happened here. If you are inclined to explain further, I promise to attempt to listen and try not to react harshly. For my part, I want to apologize for my use of bad language, it's a common acronym on forums and blogs in the US and meant to express major confusion and surprise. I am sorry it offended you, I edited my post to remove it.

To everyone else, we can all just step back. For my part, I can certainly understand why people were upset and it was not wrong to express that. For Seablue's sake, and possibly others, speaking up helped them to not claim this for themselves. So many of us struggle with how we see ourselves and our worth that we really don't need any help in questioning our own behavior and motives. I do not believe this list applies to anyone here (beyond the fact that it applies to all humans in some degrees as has been noted) so there is no need to defend ourselves.

I don't mean this post to cut off continuing discussion just that we all take a deep breath and calm down. I agree with STRM, that there have been a lot of difficulties on the forums lately which is distressing for everyone. It's hard to seek out support in the middle of a flame war. Again, my apologies for my contributions to revving up the conversation. I stand by what I said, I just regret the manner in which some of it was said.

AG

Sadly,

because I'm surprised by your post and how short and frustrated and defensive and angry you sound to me (which I could be totally wrong on), I read the last couple of days of posts on your blog that you linked to on this thread.

I am not sure if it is good to bring this up, but you did link to your blog, so I hope it is ok. I'm so sorry if it is not, and I will delete this if needed. I just thought maybe it fits in here. I am not sure if it is good to bring this up, but you did link to your blog, so I hope it is ok. I'm so sorry if it is not, and I will delete this if needed. I just thought maybe it fits in here. People seem to be taking your posts as being written with a lot of anger or criticalness that people are not quite understanding...

and on your blog, you are very clear that you are very angry at Ts. On your blog, you are very clear that you are angry at a lot of people who even just walk by you and don't know you are in pain.

**possible triggers**
On your blog it sounds like over the past few days you have quit going to therapy, and you are struggling with deep anger with your T who you no longer reffer to as sweet but stupid. It sounds like you are really feeling very alone and you shared some pretty serious SU thoughts and have taken some serious actions towards that for several days now, and you don't feel like you can keep you safe. You also shared that you have deep anger and feel a lot of hate towards a lot of people right now...
**end of possible triggers**

after taking a little time, and after reading your blog now, I'm not concerned about what you wrote here in your thread... (no worries about clarifying it right now. You can if you want, and that would help... but you have much more important things you are dealing with than that clearing up my misunderstandings.)

I am so sorry you are hurting so badly and so deeply struggling right now and how things have broken down with your T. How are you doing now?

Ok this is slightly tangental and hijack... sorry (should I have posted this as a new thread?) but you did link to it and I just care and hope you are ok and hope you find some peace and rest soon.

please take care of you and know, that even in the midst of people being confused and offended and having strong reactions to this thread, I think it is very safe to say that we are here for you and we care about you. Please be kind to you and please know, you are not alone in the pain you are going through.

gentle safe hugs to you,
jane

Thank you Jane for adding the info from the blog. I don't read your blog Sadly but I can see now that what you posted here was out of frustration with whatever is going on with your T. I'm sorry you are in so much pain. (((Sadly)))

Sadly, I apologize too. I was definitely triggered and reacted too quickly. I also want to thank Jane for posting what she did. I don't read your blog either (nothing against you at all..guess I'm just not a big blogger) so I wasn't aware of the situation. I still should have thought everything through further before I responded. (((hugs))) Hopefully we can all get back to a better place here.

Sadly, I too was confused by your original post and similarly to Seablue, I internalised what was being said without having much of an understanding of the context in which it was written. Due to my own lack of self-belief I didn’t post sooner for fear of saying the wrong thing…not one of my best traits. I did then re-think this as not being about anyone here but about the people around you as I don’t think it is in your nature to deliberately hurt people, I believe you were honestly trying to protect the forum from people who you believed to be unhelpful or even harmful…yet as already mentioned here this can describe many people as being human.

Thank you JD for taking the time and care to do a little more research and linking us to Sadly’s blog as it is really clear Sadly that you are hurting so very badly and feeling incredibly alone and goes a long way to explaining why you posted what you did.

((((((Sadly)))))) I hope you can receive the support that you so badly need and want and that you can come back and talk to us about how you are feeling.

Hugs
Butterfly

sometimes I think this online forums are really less benefical then some believe. We can never tell why someone has written what they've written, who its being written for, or about, wheather its a cry for help, or an emotional flashback to an uncaring parent that now is represented by those that are in the caring profession but dont really have the caring in them.

Sometimes its a form of self harm, knowing that a post will indeed bring some negative responses. Unless we know the person, we really dont' know. We can bring our own experience into a discussion, but then we dont know if the person can hear other peoples experiences because they are stuck in an emotional time warp. I've been hurt and hurt others on online forums and know now that my deepest pain is best kept between myself and my therapist or journal. For mine and others safety.

Well said Freuds. I have been evaluating my response to this forum and I notice that I often leave here feeling worse than when I arrived. Not because of any one poster etc. Just because it's all so personal and so public and so like you said freud - wide open to interpretations that are plagued with projection, transferences, misunderstandings etc etc. I was trying to say that sort of in my post about people being socially destroyed by past abuse but I realize that even that post could have easily been misconstrued.

Freuds and L2F,
I agree that a support forum is not going to be helpful for everyone, especially for people dealing with the kinds of issues of most of us. I especially agree that one of the dangers is putting too much of a breech in the therapy vessel. I see the forum as a place to find support and be able to talk through issues I'm trying to understand. It was also a good place to try out new skills knowing I was doing so in an environment in which people understood why doing those things would be difficult and scary and were able to provide a level of support and feedback I might not find elsewhere. I found it really helped me as I worked in therapy but I also know other members who choose to leave the forum indefinitely because they felt like it was impacting therapy negatively. I believe its a choice everyone needs to make for themselves. So I really do get what you're saying.

And L2F, it sounds like you're questioning whether or not this is a good place for you to be. Which is a very important question to ask.

Freud, I really want to ask you something but I want to emphasize that I'm not feeling defensive about the forums, nor do I wish to attack you for expressing your view, I am just really interested in your answer as I want to understand. If you feel the way you do about forums, that they not very beneficial and can be so confusing, it begs the question, why are you participating here? If I misunderstood what you were trying to say (one of the dangers I believe you mentioned ) please correct me. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

AG

quote:

Freud, I really want to ask you something but I want to emphasize that I'm not feeling defensive about the forums, nor do I wish to attack you for expressing your view, I am just really interested in your answer as I want to understand. If you feel the way you do about forums, that they not very beneficial and can be so confusing, it begs the question, why are you participating here? If I misunderstood what you were trying to say (one of the dangers I believe you mentioned ) please correct me. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

AG

Oh I think concentrating on understanding why you particpate would be so much more beneficial then understanding me.

I've got a good handle on my own motivations, thanks. If you're interested, I'd be more than willing to discuss them.

I'm sorry, I assumed that since you posted the comment on a public forum you would be willing to discuss it. My bad.

I come here mostly to read and I get a lot out of that. It's more when I post that I feel sort of bad. Not always but sometimes. That was what I meant anyway. Just to clarify.

L2F...it's scary to post, but if can be really good practice for learning social skills, taking risks, etc.. finding out what works and what doesn't work to find connection points with others. I have found my time here to be very very beneficial in that regard. I used to have almost no understanding of interactions and subtlties in communication, and I feel like I have had a crash course on this forum that got me where I needed to be in terms of being able to find some connection with others. I still have a lot to learn. It literally takes practice.

(however- clearly, it has not improved my spelling skills! )

We need a group hug

= )

I'm going to take DF's suggestion and close this thread.

Sadly if you wish to discuss this further, could you please open a new thread? Thanks, sorry for the inconvenience.

AG