Hi Jones,

Hmmmmmm… the creative process is tricky for sure. Here’s an idea…... Have you heard of that phrase or quote “If you want something, let it go?” I ask because you said that when you do actually find the time you can’t do anything- that pressure to perform in a window of time can really stifle any creativity. So instead of having that pressure, do the exact opposite. Tell yourself there is literally nothing that needs to be done. There’s no pressure; there’s no need to do anything at all really, besides just be. It’s like if you were gripping your fists really hard trying to hold onto something. You hold on so tightly it become exhausting, and your writs and your arms start to ache. But then you release your grip, and you see that there was nothing to even hold on to in the first place, and now your hands are free. I don’t know, I know that’s worked for me with writing, you just can’t let it backfire and then literally get nothing done!

Hey, there Jones...I'm feeling actually a lot of deep pain in your post. I'm really hesitatn to say anything about what your post made me think of, because it's triggery stuff, for me, and probably for you- and I think it's like, well- what can I say that would help with this? It seems like you quite simply need a T that you can go there with. I know that you want to go there *right now* and get it over with, so that you can carry on with your creative practice and live life more fully the way you dream of doing. But Jones, I think this isn't so simple. What I say next may be hard to hear. ((((((Jones))))) I hate to say it, but I think there is a tender part of us inside, that gets neglected, stuffed and stifled by others around us, and sometimes even by ourselves, after dealing with many years, maybe, decades of that. That part is intimately linked with emotion/creativity, isn't it? It's just not so simple. That part needs to be nurtured and loved by someone outside of itself in order to thrive and function. This is just what I believe. When that doesn't happen, we are suffering deeply at another's hands. It's like draggers brilliant garden analogy...well, this beautiful plant inside of you, Jones, is a bit wilted right now, and seriously needs some TLC. I wish I could say that I think you can give it to yourself and everything will be fine. Certainly, some of that can help, and go a long way. But, I think it's a lot more complex than that. I think it involves asking for it, which is so very difficult and vulnerable- and allowing the other* -that we need this nurturing love from, the love that *allows* us to have a heart- to be exactly who we are, flaws and imperfections and all- to let that other, whether T or spouse or friend- to see the pain they have caused- of the wounded self inside that has been once again left behind or used for convenience sake, or whatever the case may be. But, this is no easy thing for you or for me, because when we have even done that difficult seeminly impossible thing-, it often *still* got rejected and pushed aside forgotten and unseen maybe, again, again, and again. We feel "used." And we are...this way, we get "used up." Our challenge- perhaps, and this is where a good T will come in- is to find someone that we can *keep re-presenting* this injured, hurting and unseen neglected *self* to, our heart- over and over and over again, until this tender little "person inside" can be allowed to limp out, and integrate into how we function day-to day.

Now all of this...is just how I see it, and from stuff my own T has said, and my own expereinces with coming to terms with neglect- it's a "right now I can see it" thing. I am so sorry, I beleive that this is coming from a place of very deep pain, that will be hard, very hard to visit. That, at least from my perspective, it will be a difficult and long road to overcome such a block. The pain of being "left behind" by your T in the area of art therapy, and in orhter areas too, by others, most likely- is something that must be looked at and felt and as AG would say, mourned, with a caring other. But, how difficult, because, when a seemingly functional person, and very intelligent and so on, this essential part gets *all the more* pushed aside and ignored in favour of your intelligence, functionality, and ability to care for others, and "get it done" and so on. After awhile, those abilities just begin to shut down, because it's like, *everything* is just getting used up, and not re-fueled. Presenting this hurting part to someone, is not an easy task, but a life's challenge and master-work, and cannot be done alone, as my T would say.

In the meantime, hmm, it seems to me that some tools and tricks like Mac has suggested, could be very helpful in getting through the day-to-day that must be done kind of things, to find that creative energy for short periods of time or connect briefly with it, enough to do what you need to?

Well, Jones. I hope I haven't thoroughly depressed you, now...You will find the way...I am certain of that, somehow- but I just feel that deeply.

Many hugs,

BB

jones, i am not into creative work myself, and might not have a qlue, but i can really understand from reading you post how terrible it must feel to be blocked and left with anxiety and stuckness once you have the time to actually begin you creative work(which i can tell you love) - when this seem to be "your thing". I was striked about your T`s comment- she seem to lack totally understanding of the depth of this problem..(and of you?) is she aware of how you felt about that comment?

quote:

Each time I start with a new T I start by raising this problem and saying "and this is what I REALLY want to work on, and each time it just gets lost in the constant wash of relationship trouble and other crises - just like in life.

quote:

I wonder if work (in therapy) is similar to the actually work on your creative practice (in real life) and and that "life" ("the constant wash of relationship trouble and other crises") that "interupts" your therapy, are the same reasons that you feel blocked in your creative work..? gosh- this is too hard for me to express in english.. I mean, it lookes like a paralel process here... ?

(for me the thesis goes like this: once i am stuck in life, = i feel stuck in therapy too. And very often i have tended to think its the opposite, that i am stuck in life- BECAUSE i am stuck in therapy first..)

ANYWAYS: you are a brave one to touch onto that sensitive ground, in order to move forward with this and be able to work on this problem, - i just hope too that your T will be able to exploore this with you, and offor the support she should. Is she aware of how disappointed you are that the art therapy just ended? Hmm, it doesnt seem like it though... You might just have to say all this loud and clear to her, unill she "gets it" because undoubtly this is something that should be adressed and you deserve to at least to have this problem validated as important.
i am so sorry that you are having all this breaks with anxiety and the following difficulty thoughts, no wonder why you would wish a regular daily practice sometimes.. Though- it sounds like you are an artist jones, and you guys arent really made for that boring A4- life, are you?

i am glad that you have recieved lots of better responses here jones, sending you lots of good wishes, and i think you are very strong to adress this problem so deeply- creds to you!

(btw sorry for this messy post, my previous was deleted because my mum rushed into the room here and i panicked and erased in a hurry! )

These are wonderful responses, which I need time to absorb. Thanks DF, Maclove, BB and Frog. Today I am going to arrange access for a place at work where I think I can be hidden, quiet and peaceful, no distractions, with room to get some stuff done. Wish me luck.

Can I say, too, how wonderful it is to make the leap to actually using this place to help me focus on what I really want to focus on, and getting such wicked support? I guess I never thought of doing this before, but I want to continue.

WISH YOU LUCK JONES!
and great that you have found out how to make the leap here using this foum to help you in the best possible ways- i am sure we are all pleased to have the opportunity to support you further with all this- espescially while knowing this is somehting you obviosusly want to pay attention to and focus on!

(oh- i am very curious about how you arranged the room?)

Yeeeah, good luck...that sound like a cozy place you have planned there, Jones.

I am also curious about how the room looks!

BB

Hi Jones sorry I’m late to this thread. I hope you managed to get that access to a place at work where you would be free of distractions. Is that perhaps one of the reasons you are feeling stifled in your creativity - that you literally didn’t have ‘A Room of One’s Own’?

I can’t really comment on creativity, being one of the world’s most UNcreative people - but wanted to share about a time when I did think I might have been, and was attempting to write The Great Novel (lol) - I found that it tended to take my life over, I spent most of my waking (and often sleeping) hours thinking about it and working on it and really getting into it - I’d talk about it, ask questions, do research, bore people to death with my ideas and progress, generally it became the central if not sole focus of my life for about eighteen months (during which time I worked and was doing (unsuccessful) therapy as well).

Ok so I’m a bit of an obsessive (understatement) so maybe that’s how it worked, but the point I’m making is that for me that piece of writing became the most important thing in my life and no matter what else was going on in my life I literally HAD to keep writing - and I’m wondering if somewhere in there, you are not crediting your creativity and the need to express it with as much importance as it actually has for you (almost as if you don’t think it is as worthy or deserving of your commitment as other things in your life?) Just a throw away question Jones, based on my own experience with how important writing that novel became to me - I’m not at all suggesting that that is what’s happening with you.

One thing though that struck me about when I spent that time writing, was just how much I LOVED it, it really gave me so much pleasure and I looked forward to it every day - and I’m getting the impression from your post that it has almost become like something you HAVE to do rather than that you WANT to do it. Sorry if this is way off (quite likely!) - treat my comments more as a springboard for you to define what’s going on for you with your creative practice.

On the other hand, it strikes me also (from an intellectual point of view rather than experiential) that stifled creativity in general (writer’s block for instance) can be as a result of other unresolved issues that channel the creative impulses into dealing with continuing underlying problems. So in that sense maybe therapy can help with creativity by addressing the issues getting in the way of it? In either case, it sucks that your T isn’t taking seriously the issue of creativity that you are wanting to deal with in therapy.

Again I want to repeat that I’m not creative at all and so everything I’ve just said treat as coming from someone who doesn’t understand the creative process, just making guesses.

Hope you are managing to find some space to devote to your creative practice all the same.

LL

Thank you all so much for your caring and supportive thoughts with this. It's taken me a while to get back to this because I wanted to take a little time with it, and because it's slippery to think about. But your comments are helping to pull me back to it.

I haven't told my T how I feel about her comments and lack of focus on the creative stuff. DF, thank you for understanding how frustrating and disappointing this is. My *not* talking about it with her is the same old story - each week there is so much relationship stuff that gets in the way and seems urgent to deal with. Often we meet the day after a couples session, and it feels important to do some wash-up after that. But I think we are taking a break from the couples sessions, and I have an individual appointment tomorrow, so maybe I'll address that then. The other thing is that I've been expecting to *change* T's, so I guess I'm also hesitant to address this head on with her when i don't expect to keep working with her. But my lack of faith in her ability to help me with this is a big part of my wanting to change T. Chicken and the egg....

My working life is built around my creative work, but in a way that most of my energy goes towards helping others with *their* creativity. At the same time, there's a lot of pressure on me to produce and be successful, and if I don't, I will lose my job (I come up for review in about a year's time). Actually, my husband and I would be sent back to my home country, too. No kidding. Mac, your image about the fists is exactly right. I have been in this situation in one way or another for years, most of my adult working life, and I would dearly love to get to a position where I could let my hands be free - but the tension is with me *all* the time.

Dammit I have to go - I will come back to this later in my day.

love & thanks all,

Jones

Ok, part 2!

And first I have to say I've made a couple of good steps. 1) I got a key to the room I was talking about. I'm not sure when I'll actually be able to use it - I just know that it's not in use a lot of the time, and it's ok for me to use it when it's not - I just can't predict when that will be or access the schedule. If I get brave I will ask if I can actually BOOK the room for a little bit of time each day - but I find it hard to say "I'm going to do this!" and then rely on myself, you know? Like I will stuff it up a couple of times and lose faith in it and the whole idea will crash - that seems almost *certain* to me. Well, what do you do with that, the lack of trust in yourself? This is why I hate putting the creative stuff on my schedule. I can put the other stuff on and I'm getting better and better at managing my to do list. I am even getting reading time in. But the creative stuff is still a freeze zone....

Anyway, my other step forward is a big one. I too struggle with coming here or other places on the net too often as a 'brain rest' or a distraction when I need to be grappling with other problems. As soon as I hit something tricky, I distract myself. If I'm feeling really good or just way too busy I do it less, but it's still pretty automatic/compulsive. Well, I've talked to my husband about this a few times, and he told me that if he bought a new wireless station for us he could arrange that net access is blocked to my computer at times of my choosing. So I said YES PLEASE, he bought the thing, and we just sat down together and worked out a schedule for next week where certain blocks of time will be net free for me. It's not too extreme - I want to ease into it - and I won't put too much pressure on myself to do creative work at those times, but just to see what happens in the 'quiet'. Hopefully to get into more of that relaxed 'hands-free' frame of mind. It was good to work with my husband on this.

Beebs, your message is indeed a tricky one for me to respond to. I deeply appreciate the care and thought here, and I think there is a lot of truth to what you say. At the same time, it's really slippery - I can't *know* if it's true or not, and I can't rely on it being true - that the real way out of this bind is through a kind of relationship with another that I don't know if I'll ever get. Certainly I *imagine* my creative self flourishing under those kinds of circumstances - where someone else is providing so much nurturing - but I can't rely on that or wait for that.

BUT what I can do is imagine or remember what that feels like - I've had little brief bits of that in my life - and remember what it's like to see myself that way, through the eyes of another who considers that part of me as really precious and deserving of protection and nurturing and investment. And I can try to *act* like that, imagine that it's true, take those steps as though the other were there, take the lead with it and trust that there will be *enough* support around me with or without that dedicated, skilled, attentive other, to get me where I need to go. So like taking this problem to my husband and working with him on it. When I can do these kinds of things I find it works to some degree - if I behave as though my husband can help me, for example, I find he is much more likely to help me.

But of course this is not the dream of growing up in the shelter of another's wing. So far the results in my life are fits and starts and great periods of stiltedness and occasional crashing. But I *have* been given gifts - little patchwork pieces of love and care and nourishing - and so I find I can stitch them together bit by bit, try to keep doing that stitching, practicing, remembering, imagining, stepping out both towards the support and towards that different image of myself. Yes, I want someone to meet me in that task, to 'dance with me', and I suspect or dream it would make it much easier for me to meet my goals. But I also know that that dance - *if* it happens - will be easier, safer, more likely if I am practiced on my own. Does this make any sense? Am I getting way too abstract?

Beebs I'm saying this simply to try to describe my own situation right now, that it feels necessary and ok to keep doing and trying and piecing together. I know that there have been times when I have been unable to access ANY of that energy to even try. That's not a 'wrong' place to be - it is simply something that is a result of particular maths - as you say, too many withdrawals and not enough deposits - and yes, it is true I think that we just need love and care from another in that place.

Argh, I'm just glimpsing your message again and I'm not even sure I've addressed what you are really saying - I'm sorry - I hope what I've written makes some sense at least.
((((((((BB)))))))))

Froggie, you are spot on = this is indeed a kind of parallel process for me. It doesn't come first in therapy, it doesn't come first in my life. And so I can only conclude that this is so because *I* don't put it first; I don't behave like someone to whom this is really important. So this is what I am trying to look at, to shift somehow. At least to take the next steps towards shifting. BTW Frog - that was a lovely, insightful post - thank you, 'messiness' and all.

The room, by the way, is huge and absolutely black. All I will do is light a single light and find a small table to work on. Maybe not cozy, but certainly peaceful!

LL - I think I might have said this before, and I know you don't buy it (right now) but I don't believe for a minute that you are uncreative, because I've read your posts and seen something of how your mind works, and actually I'm not at all surprised to learn that you worked on a novel for a period. The fact that you got so immersed in it is just more evidence to me that you have a strong creative impulse in you. Sorry to say that, that idea might not be welcome to you, but I have to tell the truth!!

I have had that experience of being immersed and taken over, but I find I can't stay with it. It feels so 'verboten'! When I am like that I just want to feed more and more to it and I quickly hit the wall of not being 'allowed', that it's going to hurt other people, or that I will fail and it will all be lost, and all my other bridges burned too. So yes, this is part of it. Most of the time I just can't get there though. All the duty and pressure loads it up with fear, so it is very hard to get there.

BG, the idea of doing something different is a really good helpful one to me, and over the years I've worked in just about every medium there is for a little while. I do tend to get a bit immersed in the 'other' though, and forget my main thing, until I hit a wall, and it's back to the drawing board... I think I am called a dilletante! Thank you for this reminder - this has worked for me before.

Ok, I have to go after this massive massive post - thank you all for your wonderful thoughts and suggestions and care. I appreciate it.

Love,
Jones

Jones...fwiw, what you posted to me makes perfect sense...that you need to find a way yourself through this without waiting around for something that *may* not happen...seems like what ytou are saying, and yes...and how very beautiful, to work with your husband on a plan that will help you, getting and asking for his support in that...is exactly the kind of skill I am hoping to learn in my own marriage...ah, Jones. That is very painful, and very admirable. I admire you, and yes, I am just going to say it outright, just like that.

I want to offer one thought to you, since you are such a very self-reflective person, and willing and able to take things, or leave them- it is on this:

quote:

So I said YES PLEASE, he bought the thing, and we just sat down together and worked out a schedule for next week where certain blocks of time will be net free for me. It's not too extreme - I want to ease into it - and I won't put too much pressure on myself to do creative work at those times, but just to see what happens in the 'quiet'. Hopefully to get into more of that relaxed 'hands-free' frame of mind. It was good to work with my husband on this.

That I find so beautiful and so inspiring...that you were able to ask for and receive somthing from your spouse, and work together without allowing the resentment in, that I find so hard to battle. This is the essence of love, in my opinion...to be able to ask to receive, in the first place- and in receiving we also give something..and even if it doesn't feel "perfect" emotionally to us...we are doing something *in service to love* that is SO intrinsically valuable. I really honor you for this. And it's teaching me something really valuable.

Other thing is, dear Jones, that I see so much in your posts that you are a person who gives, and gives and gives. That makes me always want to give something to you, back again. Or, especially, to wish to be the one to give, unasked. I think there is a valuable life lesson inside all of that, whatever it is. And I think it is often so much more comfortable to be the "giver." Well, somewhat philosophical thoughts I always get "all into." I wonder sometimes, if it really is better to give, than to receive...although, for myself as Christian, I must believe it- but sometimes, I just think the greatest (and most painful) gift is to receive. I haveno idea if I am making any sense, Jones! I'd better go!

In hopes you are creating something,


BB

Beebs - thank you - you make perfect sense. The giving & receiving one is a tricky question and I want to come back to it, but my brain for some reason won't go there at the moment. But I want to say it is important, and I want to write about it with you at some point - I'll come back to it. xx

Well, today I finally made it to the 'secret room' and did an hour of creative practice for the first time since having this idea. I talked about it with my T on Monday, then booked the room for an hour today and an hour each day next week. I would probably be able to wander in without booking it but I decided I wanted to know it was mine at that time and I knew probably no one else wanted it then anyway.

This is a funny thing in itself I guess. I keep trying to think - how will I KNOW that no one else wants to use it? I don't want to book it at times when something else more important should be on in there. I want to be able to guess the times when no one wants it, but I can't do that because I don't have contact with the other users, can't even see the schedule - I just have to try to book it and if it's free it works. But what I'm using it for is not really what the room's designed for, so I sort of don't want to tell anyone that I'm doing this.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't feel entitled to this creative space, I feel like I can only claim it if nothing else is more important, and I'm ready to fold and run away if something else comes up. I don't want to talk to the people I could talk to about this because it doesn't make sense that I want THIS space for this purpose, I can't justify it.

But it does work for me - at least it did tonight. It's absolutely quiet, peaceful and undisturbed. There are no distractions.

Tonight I was fifteen minutes late - hesitating - but I ran fifteen minutes over at the end. For three quarters of an hour I could not 'connect'. I just fluffed around making motions, feeling flat, dull, completely apathetic about the whole exercise. But I had told myself that this will happen sometimes. Certainly to start with while my mind gets used to trusting this time and my right brain reconnects after a long while out of commission.

In the last fifteen minutes something started to happen, so I got some satisfaction. Nothing actually really made, nothing I will even be able to go back to I think, but at least some kind of feeling of making.

It's hard to maintain any sense of faith or hope in this process. I've made so many beginnings on things and then lost them, been unable to go further. So rare for me to follow through and complete, so now any beginning, any plans, I look at and think 'yeah yeah, you'll never get that done, you've been here before'. And then I can't get excited about my ideas - I just switch off, put less and less into them. How do I restore faith in myself and this process? And my love of the process itself? I felt a little flare tonight, but not enough to light up the skills that I don't even know if I have any more.

Sitting here, rubbing my hands together with glee, because you brought it back to the creative practice stuff yourself, without allowing this thread to slide into becoming about relationship stuff! Congrats!

Just re-reading your post, now...

BB

Wohoo! I hadn't thought of it like that Beebs - thanks for drawing it to my attention!

When I have time, like now, when I could be doing my creative work - just quietly playing with ideas, this great resistance comes up in me. It's like there's *no space in the world* - everything is scattered and fragmented, and I don't have any place to start, or any way to continue. I think of all the things I've begun and never finished, and how this will be another beginning that I'll never finish, another lost start. Ideas come nowhere near me.

I ask myself what I would need to re-establish that sense of being able to seriously begin and I think

- maybe a way of forgetting everything, being a kind of innocent again who has never tried and failed
- maybe some kind of guarantee that what I am doing I will complete, that it will be worthwhile
- maybe someone *to work towards*, someone who will be the audience for this work.

I don't know. And how do I connect in a meaningful way to the deeper 'story' about all this? I feel so stuck with it, and the bind of being stuck in the same way with therapy and with life is very frustrating indeed. I continue 'waiting' for the change in circumstance (the new therapist, or...) that will allow me to move.

I'm sorry to post essentially the same thing over again. I'm trying to keep this question open and in focus for me, even if I make no progress right now.

J

Jones ~
I love your heart to create and express! It stirs up the artist in me! I love reading about your journey in this.

I'm kinda wondering about something...
have you tried to express in art the resistance, the feeling of being stuck or blocked? I know, for me, getting past my own numbness (a form of resistance) is very frustrating for me (in art and therapy). Something happened for me this week though that is coming to mind as I read your post. I was with my T, and I was super numb and really frustrated with that. I wanted to get to the "me" behind it all and all the things going in my mind and heart and life but I was so numb. My T suggested not fighting the numbness for a little while - and thought that there might be a message for me in the numbness itself. She suggested for me to explore it. For me to notice and observe and take in - what did it feel like, where did it exist, what is it like to be in it... to explore, almost experiment with it.

It was so hard and I can't say I did it well or for long. I am always wanting to fix or change or DO something - not just be there, and be stuck.

But my T said sometimes "there is story the defense, the resistance, the numbness, the stuckness, is trying to tell us and has for us in the actual being numb, not just what is behind it."

I don't know how that all works... but maybe, your resistance has something to say too. Not just what is the bigger story behind it. It is a part of the story too... oh, how do I even explain what my T said - she said it so much better!

Have you tried maybe trying to express the resistance itself? without getting to the story behind it, but the experience of the very resistance, the block, itself - and what that is like? Like not just the desire to move past it, but... argh. I can't explain this very well at all.

express the bind itself.

For me, trying to do that, is so hard. I keep thinking, and saying to my T, but I have to DO something with this, there has to be a goal or a purpose...

and then...

I let go.

And something is happening and I can't even quite explain it. I explore the actual numbness and bind for me itself, without any agenda or goal, feeling silly and pointless the whole time... and sometimes, I end up where I wanted to be almost by accident, and sometimes I end up just more stuck, and sometimes I end up someplace all the more amazing, and sometimes I am just a mess... and yet with a whole new perspective that I can't even quiet explain. The stuckness becomes less stuck.

Just like the "chinese fringer trap" toy, sometimes when I let go and don't fight it, I actually then can get free of it.

But most of the time, I am fighting it and waiting, for things to change, be different, better...

ugh. I can't explain this well at all.

if I am not making any sense or just totally off track - please disregard. I sort of still have fog-for-brains.

(edited to take out a irrelevant personal detail. nbd)

Janedoe can I say that that is a brilliant post! It makes SO much sense on all sorts of levels - reminds me very much of me desperately trying to fix everything in me and really baulking at the idea that this, what is going on in me RIGHT NOW (the stuckness, the numbness, the frustration...)IS the issue, is what is important to look at, feel, experience, understand.

You said it very well JD - can't see any sign of brain fog there at all

Jones I wonder if that isn't a way in for you after all too? Expressing artistically where you are at in this precise moment?

And do you think it would help you get further if you did go over and over - here on forum, where you're going to be heard and get feedback - all the things that are going through your head about your creative practice? I notice that you are apologizing for seemingly repeating yourself - and I'm trying to say that that's perfectly ok - and even that in so doing, things might become clearer for you? I for one love reading what you write, and it sure doesn't sound repetitive to me. As JD is saying, maybe you dont' need to 'fix' it but rather experience it as it is, thereby maybe arriving at all sorts of things that you might otherwise be missing. Finding a way to your creativity through what seems to be getting in the way of it.

(((( Jones ))))

LL

quote:

I ask myself what I would need to re-establish that sense of being able to seriously begin and I think

- maybe a way of forgetting everything, being a kind of innocent again who has never tried and failed
- maybe some kind of guarantee that what I am doing I will complete, that it will be worthwhile
- maybe someone *to work towards*, someone who will be the audience for this work.

Jones I've had so many of the same thoughts. There is something about learning to be in the present moment...here, I think, too.

Or is it just getting started...sometimes I think, is it just the physical action of making your body do whatever it is that you do whether it's feeling good or not. I hate the judgement, I think that is coming into every action I try to undertake...horrible self judgement of every action most especially creative work- and how worthless it is...I think that comes inot play a lot, unconsciously. It's like there is this quiet little voice constantly whispering, inaudibly "oh, that sucks...that was so worthless...wow, that was a waste of time..." Sometimes that voice gets a little louder, but most of the time I can't even hear it, until my T or SD or someone, points it out...I'm wondering if you have some of that going on, because, who can work under intolerable conditions like that? I suspect this is where the desire/need to work for an audience comes in...that if we could just get some approval of this wrok, then those voices may quiet, and we will be able to produce more...receive more, then give more...and so on..

And then of course it's all the other stuff too. I like how you are quietly finding a little place for yourself to go and be with this...and I find it kind of interesting (sad too) that you seem to be fighting a fair bit of guilt over something so simple and innocent..(???) Even the physical action of creating a space for yourself to at least sit with it, with the intention to use the time towards that end seems to be causing some anxiety...as in, that's not really what this room is for, and so on... certainly a lot to ponder and I hope that this thread is a great place to present, and represent your thoughts and ideas on this...without any guilt, or fear that you are being "selfish." You aren't...pure and simple.

Love,

Bebe

Jane, LL, Bebe, thank you all. These are all very valuable thoughts.

I'm trying to work on a work project at the moment, one I feel anxious and unfocused about. As you say, BB, I can't quite catch the thoughts that are making me anxious, but I notice what is happening in my body, which is the same as what happens when I start working creatively. When I start to think about working on this project I kind of stop breathing. I can't remember from one moment to the next what I am supposed to be doing, and I can't decide what to do next. When I try to step into the work flow I am immediately conscious of little and big decisions I have made wrong, badly or inadequately, and I have the sense that I'm going to expose myself very soon. If I think about the other people involved in the project I think that they hate me and what I am doing. I can't focus on what is ahead, and when I get close to having to make another decision or contact someone I feel more panicky (I guess I stop breathing) and my mind slides off it. I immediately start looking for something to distract myself with.

*edit* Something else I notice is that often I feel like this about a project - that it is impossible, and I'm doing an awful job, and it will never be completed - right the way through it, until it's finished. And them I'm amazed that it actually has happened after all.

That's all for now. Thanks you guys for hearing me so well. I'm sorry not to respond more directly - I just feel like I need to just record what happens right now. But that *is* because of the value of what you are saying.

J

Oops, the post above was pretty unclear, so I've just edited it a bit for clarity.

Today I went into my 'secret room' for an hour and I was able to work steadily for the hour. I wasn't working ON anything, just following my nose, but I picked up energy instead of losing it and it felt really good. I think it was partly coming back to this reserved time, and partly keeping in mind what you guys were saying about just being with the stuckness.

I am going to reserve some hours in this room for next week too. It helps a lot to have this time recorded somewhere outside myself, and to have it scheduled in my diary too. It was good to look ahead today and know that time was coming.

J

Hi Jones...

I am late arriving on this thread...but wanted to tell you about my experience on this topic. I go through creative bursts. I find that I cannot do anything else when I am absorbed in my creative space. I have a basement studio and sometimes disappear there for days at a time. I become chained to my obsessions and find it difficult to do or think about anything else. Sometimes it becomes a problem for me. I don't eat...sleep...or do anything but draw...and paint. Most of my art is directly related to my therapy...so my T loves it. My family...well....not so much. hmmm

It is a dissociative process for me and most of the time I remember very little of what I am actually doing, but it does help me to understand what I am feeling. That is actually the goal of my creative process and much of my therapy is reflected. I posted a small gallery of drawings on this site a while ago. I was just about to remove them when I found this thread and decided to let them stay a bit longer, feel free to take a look at them if you have not already seen them. Most of them were done in an 8 month period of time and I have dozens more. Some of them are too triggering to post. They are mine...but not mine, in that they mostly belong to other parts of me that are limited in their forms of expression. It is interesting to me to see what I can do, even though I don't believe that I can. I am not an artist...but I have a few living inside of me...apparently. hmmmm...
I am not able to designate an allotted amount of time for creativity. It just happens when it does with me, and I am not able to stop until I am done. If I get interrupted....the drawing, usually..does not get finished. I envy those who are able to create on a time schedule...and keep their lives going. It is not something I can do.

I'm not sure I have any advice for you...except as JD said....just "let go" do not edit or judge your creative process...just go with the feeling...and see what appears. When art is something that you do to make a living sometimes it is very difficult to create anything that does not have a monetary attachment. That is to say..."if I can't sell it...why do it?" If you have these thoughts...maybe you can separate what you do for a living....with what you do for yourself. It helps me to keep my drawings private until I am ready to show them. I don't do them for anyone...but me...and sometimes...my T.

SD

Dear Soulfuldaze -

It's lovely to hear from you - thank you for telling me about how it is for you. I sifted back through your posts to find your images - great stuff, they are very powerful & you have a beautiful way with textures. Thank you for leaving them up.

I get sorta envious of others who can drop into that creative space and stay there. Sometimes I can do that, but not usually with my primary art form, easier with others. When I have done that it becomes so disruptive to my life and puts me in so much conflict - I can't handle the pressure from outside forces (all the 'shoulds', partner demands and so on) pulling me away or the guilt of neglecting other stuff if I haven't quantifiably 'achieved' something with my creative time. And I absolutely hate the transition from that immersed state to daily life and back again - I can't bear it. So it's hard to let go.

I'm finding having scheduled time each day, just an hour at the moment, is helping. Strong boundaries around it is sort of reassuring to me, especially if it's outside myself (like having the work space booked). I need to book time for next week to keep going with this... it's hard... need to think through how to do this and stick to it as my work schedule is about to change for a few weeks.

Thanks, SD.

So, I guess I am in a bit of a 'danger zone' with my brand new routine... that I stuck to for three whole days.... In that my work schedule is changing for the next few weeks and I'll often be working from home.

I find it really really hard to think ahead and make decisions about how to handle this small change. How do I keep making this time when I won't have that secured space?

I think I can work with my husband again on arranging net-free time, and maybe I can book that room again regardless - and if I'm not there, I'm not there, but I can take time at home instead.

Sorry, I know it's really mundane to read this, but I am just trying to work through a kind of a sticking place in my plan of the kind that usually just throws me off. I know if I just deal with my head as usual I'll forget all about my commitment and go back to not keeping the time.

J

Thanks Draggles... I do find I struggle so hard for the routines that any disruption just blows me to smithereens. It's like I have to invent the wheel all over again. But it's really simple stuff to just choose a time and place and set it up and stick to it, at least once. I guess my brain starts doing some weird thing - jiggling all over the place - as soon as I think about it so it seems much harder than it is. I have the same problem every time I finish a piece of work and have to start a new one, I fall off.

I was just thinking of doing some work now even though I haven't officially scheduled anything. I am trying to listen to my feelings about this in a different way. When I start to think about working it's like I feel itchy and upset inside. I start thinking 'oh, I can't, I won't be able to!' and 'why haven't I done it already!' and I think about the feelings as blocked and guilty and stuck. When I decide to work and get a bit closer to it I feel this aching aching sadness.

But I was just thinking - what if these feelings are not what I think they are? Maybe the weird upset feelings are a normal part of my creative process, part of some cycle of my body telling me it has something to express, and my mind getting ready and my moods shifting? And maybe it's just my thoughts about the feelings that are turning it into this story about being blocked and stuck and so on....

I don't know, but I am going to try to listen to these feelings in a different way and see what happens.

It really helps to be able to talk about this as I try to work it out.

Great big huuuuuuugggggs for you too, Draggers.

xxxJ

I certainly agree that this is interesting reading and you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. hmmI'm not quite sure what you mean about the thoughts about the feelings, thing...let us know if this new way of listening to the feelings takes you someplace different.

I can completely relate to the need to have an "appointment" so that you use that time to at least think about the work and have the intention. I wonder if there is some other way, when you are working from home that you could make and keep an appointment that you are expected to be there at a certain time...um..is there someway this could be accomplished, I wonder. For example, is there a rooom in a library nearby you could book for personal use, or some such thing...just throwing ideas out there,, I guess. I don't mean to be "helpful Harry" but I guess I'm just thinking...out loud. Sometimes what has helped me before I totally crashed on my creative work was, to book an appointment with a person (friend relative or teacher) to share the work with at a certain time. I would ask, can you listen to such and such piece at a time that works for you? Then I would have to have it ready by that time.. the pressure helped me, since one of my big fears in life is "wasting someone's time." Nowadays that wouldn't work since I'm in a place where I can no longer produce at all, and it's likely that this may not work for you, either, I get that- but I thought I'd just share the idea, anyways.

BB

Hi Jones,

Coming really really late to this thread. Tried to read through the whole thread but don't have the time so if anything I say seems redundant, just please dismiss. At first I was wondering if your art was therapy or work but it appears it's both? The whole situation sounds so pressureized. It sounds like you are in a teaching or supervisory position? And so being in a position of authority would mean that you've reached a certain level of expertise? But when any of us creates, and what I find so scary about the creative process unlike say, doing math problems and getting them right, is that the creative process and ultimate outcome is much more subjective and therefore we open ourselves up to criticism? And then inherent in the creative process is the fact that we really have to be alone and sometimes I find that soooo difficult. Just a few thought Jones. Hope all is going better. I have may have missed this, so please excust if I did, but did you find a new T yet? Do you have to find a new T? You just don't like current T? Can't connect?

Also since you brought up mother issues, wondering how your mother felt about your art work????

Hiya,

Well, I had another session in my room today, and it was really productive - I worked the whole time on a particular piece I've begun. I moved quickly into a really dreamy state, which was nice, and stayed there.

When I came out I tried to sort of continue my thinking, but found I couldn't do that - in the cold light of day all my ideas seemed like rubbish, and all I could really do was worry about whether I should actually be working on this, or one of the many other projects I've abandoned.

Beebs, thank you for your "helpful Harry" ideas (what's wrong with him, anyhow?! ). I am thinking of a couple of places I could maybe try out near home.

As for sharing the work - I don't really have anyone to do this with. And I always take on these huge projects that are never finished, so it's hard to think of how I could... it's interesting to notice that I have that gap though, it's always been hard for me to actually consult with anyone. I think it's an important thing - thank you. I feel for you a lot that your own creative process has been such an important part of you, and that you seem to be cut off from it at the moment. It's an awful hurt. ((((((((BB)))))))

Draggers, I'm thinking the upset feelings maybe are part of the process. I've certainly been fighting them long enough, so I guess I'm just going to try accepting them and not turning it into a fight, somehow it seems to be helping a bit. I don't know what the sadness is... just seems to really be a core part of who I am... Maybe it's that I always *wish* I was a certain way and I'm not, and when I start to work I have to face that. The truth is when I look inside it's not this brilliant swirl of creative energy, it's just dark and empty. When things come up most of the time I don't think they're good enough. It makes me sad. Thanks for my hugs, Draggles, that helps!!! xxx


Hi Liese, thanks for your thoughts on this. Yes, it's pretty pressurized, because it's very much part of my working life. Can't say too much more than that or I'll get scared in case someone from my life happens across this (unlikely, but still). You make some really insightful points here - yes, I've got a really really strong internal critic about this, and also I do feel very lonely and desolate about it - that there is no one to help, no one to work with.

About the T - I am still with the same T for now, on the waitlist for a new one. No word on the waitlist, and it's now been a couple of months I think. My T casually asked this week if I still wanted to shift and I casually said yes. It's hard, I don't want to have to try to explain it to her but I do feel it's the right decision for me. I just can't seem to get much traction with her. She said again this week that she relates to my struggle with this creative business a lot (she's an artist and art therapist) - and so I just don't think she is the right person to help me with it.

That's an interesting question about my mother. My mother was a bit erratic about my various creative pursuits. I used to dance ballet. She would go through phases of coming to classes and trying to coach me before exams, but it would usually end up with us fighting and me crying. There would be months where she didn't have any participation or input and then she'd be there trying to get me ready. Sometimes I would get an injury from trying to practice too much at the last minute - but I think I was probably resistant to practicing by myself, and so I wouldn't say that was her fault. She never had any input into my music or visual art, which I did on my own. I used to find it hard to practice music, because when my stepdad heard me it would kind of remind him I was there and set him off on hassling me. I guess I wanted much more support than I got. I sort of wanted to be heard and appreciated.

I don't know, it's hard to write about/think about because I end up in an argument with myself over whether my mother was supportive or not! Maybe she was and I was uncooperative, maybe she wasn't... I don't know. I guess she was just erratic. Like me.

Thanks for the opportunity to think it through a bit, Liese - I appreciate it.

xxxJones

Hi Jones,

I was also wondering what do you do for inspiration? I do think of the creative process as one of inspiration. You would know much more about this than I do. But I'm thinking if you are just hitting yourself over the head every day, saying "I should be able to do this, I should be able to do this" , it most likely won't happen. As we are all connected with one another, our creative expression must first come from without and then within. So, maybe take a break, go to a concert, take along drive, do you know what I mean? Go SEE life out there. But maybe you need to schedule some more life in your schedule???

Also, about the mother stuff. One of my dearest friends mother was terribly depressed when my friend was growing up. She also worked nights. So her mother was in bed all the time all day long. And her mother was her attachment figure. Anyway, my friend had to go to bed to connect with her mother. Well, guess where she spends all her time now? You got it, in bed. And she didn't even see the pattern. She just told me it's where she feels the safest. So I was thinking about your relationship with your mother, of course in a general way, and how it was that you connected with her and if there was any connection to your block? Even though it's a different medium than when you were a child, maybe you are trying to connect somehow to her. Was she or your father or stepfather your attachment figure?

Dear Liese,

quote:

I was also wondering what do you do for inspiration? I do think of the creative process as one of inspiration.

That's a good question. It's something I find hard to manage too. I try to read but often I have so *many* reading commitments that it's hard to actually get time to immerse myself in the way that this is actually inspiring.... Beyond that, I don't know.... Travel really works for me, but again, it's not always easy to get there. I guess I'd really like to have someone who I could check in with regularly on this stuff, gently plan with. Not happening with current T.

I relate to the story about your friend's mother. My mother spent a lot of time in bed too, and hanging out with her there was often the nicest times. I was more attached to her than than any of my other parents.

quote:

So I was thinking about your relationship with your mother, of course in a general way, and how it was that you connected with her and if there was any connection to your block? Even though it's a different medium than when you were a child, maybe you are trying to connect somehow to her.

These are interesting thoughts, Liese... I don't know what the answer is, but need to think on this a bit more. Thank you.

Jones

Hey, thanks for asking DF!

I'm okay, just in a very, very busy time of year right now - like a lot of people I guess. I don't know how I'm going to get everything done, but I always wonder this and it always somehow gets done, more or less, so I'm not freaking out.

The creative stuff has stopped, dead stop, as I'm just too overwhelmed with other things.

But I have news, in that my T said to me this week that she'd checked again with the T I wanted to shift to, and he can take me now! She said they talked about it and thought it would be good if I tried him out for a while over Christmas and saw how that went, with the understanding I could go back to her if I wanted.

I thought that was really sweet. The practice technically has a rule that you're only allowed to change T once, so it gives me some security that I'm not totally burning my bridges. And I think it's a really nice thing for her to arrange given that I'm, umm, firing her.

I like her, she's been nothing but supportive since I made my decision. She hasn't challenged me on it at all, she's given me lots of space around it, and she's really been very supportive on everything else we've discussed since then, and she listens really hard.

I sort of feel a bit yuck inside that she's like this and I'm still not able to say yes, I want to stay with her - because I still don't feel like she gives me new stuff to think about when we talk things through - and I really need that. But I don't have *any* vibe that she wants or is asking me to feel guilty or that she feels hurt. I mean she might or might not feel hurt, but it's very clear that she's not asking me to deal with that.

So next week... new man-T. Lucky I'm extremely busy till then and don't have time to think about it, huh?!

oh- new male T? welcome to the club! Glad to hear your T are being so supportive about the shift. I remember when i wanted to shift from (female t) to my current (male) T, she was really not ok with it, and it left me with so much guilty, ichy feelings. Anwway; I hope you`ll let us know about your impression of new male T - when you met him! Good luck!

Wow, Jones...That's coming right up. I imagine you are sort of excited/nervous/dom't care something, but I wanted to send you loads of support as you prepare for the switch...may it be successful and leave you with a sense of sureness in yourself, that you have made the right decision. I too am hoping to hear how it goes, but totally understand if you can't post about it.

Love,

Bebe

ps- Hi Froggy!