That's a tricky one...

I suppose it depends partly on how old your folks are!

I think some generations don't 'get' the whole therapy thing... I mean, THEY had to live through the war, depression or whatever and THEY are ok so why aren't we?

Also, therapy is for YOU not for THEM. So if they don't get it... well, so be it.

Guess that's not so helpful...

Robin

I think parents, especially moms, freak out when their kid goes through therapy because they start feeling guilty about how screwed up their kid seems to be and it is pretty obvious to everyone that some of that is going to be blamed on them. Plus for my mom, my struggles and therapy experiences also mean that her image of our "happy little family" is pretty bogus since I suffered quite a bit of abuse at the hands of my sister and Mom and Dad didn't do much to stop any of it. Being a mom myself, I have a lot more compassion for my parents now and how hard it is to be a parent. I have been a lot more forgiving and understanding since my daughter was born.

quote:

Also, therapy is for YOU not for THEM. So if they don't get it... well, so be it.

Guess that's not so helpful...

Robin

Actually, that's really helpful to hear, Robin. thanks.

My parents are in their mid 70s, repressed, and conservative. They're not awful people. In fact, they're very nice, generous people, just not real warm, which makes it all the more confusing.

Russ

Russ

Very good questions. I don't have the answers, but I can tell you my perspective on it. I am actually in the middle of both sides of this. I have a son who has issues, and as a mom, I am devastated. I worry, worry, worry about him ALL THE TIME. He lives at home so I am constantly trying to read his every mood. This is not helpful for him, but I can't separate myself from it all. As the Mom, I blame myself for all of his sadness, even though my husband and T repeatedly tell me it isn't my fault.

I'm also the daughter. I have been doing therapy for 2 years and I have found out so much about my lack of coping skills. Yes, some of it stems from the way I was raised and the modeling by my parents. The problem for me is that both of my parents have passed away and I resist seeing their part in all of this because I don't want to taint my memories of them. For me, it would not be loyal.

In my mind, if I can place blame at the feet of my parents for my issues, then I also have to lay blame at my feet for my son's issues. So the vicious circle continues.

I know this doesn't answer what you asked, but maybe it will put some of it in a different light for you.

PL

quote:

Originally posted by puppy lover:
In my mind, if I can place blame at the feet of my parents for my issues, then I also have to lay blame at my feet for my son's issues. So the vicious circle continues.

PL, thanks for the reply. I think this would be terribly unfair to yourself. I know that parents project their stuff onto their children, which can in turn be passed on to the next generation, but it's not a rule. Discovering how your parents messed you up is the best way to not to continue the cycle. I sure know that if I ever have a child, it won't be treated like a guest like I was.

quote:

Discovering how your parents messed you up is the best way to not to continue the cycle.

Russ
You must have a direct link to my T's personal phone line. Because I swear, you sound just like her.
Thanks. The more I hear this, maybe I will start to believe it.

PL

quote:

As the Mom, I blame myself for all of his sadness, even though my husband and T repeatedly tell me it isn't my fault.

quote:

it must be quite complicated being both the mom and daughter within a therapy context and it certainly does give a different pesrspective. It must be extraordinary to experience both sides of the coin and maybe instead of blame you could have compassion for the difficulties and mistakes it is so easy to make.

I feel that too. I am dealing with the painful truth of my "mother issues" and how she fell short of meeting my needs and knowing what I know now about the whole attachment process I feel guilty because I know I fell short of my daughter's needs too to some degree. Even though she is 23 years old and no longer living at home I do feel in some ways it is not too late to amend some of my failures for her. If I can work out my issues through my T, I should be able to restore some of the needed patterns for my own daughter that I may have unintentionally missed. So I guess I have learned compassion for my mother as she did the best she could with what she had and that has allowed me to be more forgiving of myself as a parent. Yes, I know I passed on certain "defects" to my daughter that I had no idea of at the time, but I am hopeful that through my healing I can offer her healing too. I'm counting on it. And from what I see in our relationship and her response to my efforts I am confident that this is true.

And Russ, I agree with Robin that therapy is for you and no one really understands it unless they go through it themselves. My mother passed away 14 years ago and my father lives hundreds of miles away so I don't have the struggle of contending with their feelings and reactions of knowing I am in therapy. But I am sure it would not be pleasant. Mom was quite a guilt trip thrower and would not understand why I would need therapy and would find it a personal assault on her parenting. My dad in his old age however, has expressed much remorse for the way things were for me growing up. We've had some surprisingly honest and heartfelt conversations in the past 2 years in which I have found very healing and validating. But then he goes right back to being my dad stuck in his ways leaving me wondering if we really had those conversations at all. LOL But he also takes his guilt to an uncomfortable extreme where I worry about him for it. (Always the dutiful daughter thatI am)
I am sorry it makes it so difficult for you.
JM

Hi Russ,
It's good to hear from you. There's been a lot of wisdom shared here already, I just wanted to add one thing to it.

I don't know if you've read any of Bowen's Family systems theory? He was the guy that first figured out that if there's an addict in a family, the addiction affects everyone in the family, they all have a role to play. Dysfunctional families work the way they do because everyone has a part to play and a role to fulfill. Only if everyone stays rigidly in place does the denial of the pain and dysfunction remain underground.

When one person steps out of their role, starts questioning how they're living and even worse, making changes, it literally throws off the balance of everyone else in the system. When everyone acts out their connection through enmeshment, you can't move without also moving the other person.

For someone not willing to question the status quo, or even worse, look at their part in it, this can be extremely uncomfortable. So they "push back" on the person making changes, trying to force them beack into their role, so that they can once again be still in their denial. It's not a conscious process, but it is VERY strong and almost ANY weapon will be used, guilt being a favorite. I believe you are experiencing "push back" from your mom.

Here's the thing though, because of the system, you're moving will in some ways force her to also move. Which, although the process can be painful, is ultimately a good thing, because where she is right now is not the best place to be, nor is she living life as fully as she could be. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for people we care about is to tell the truth in as gentle way as possible even if its painful to look at. If you cannot bear to look at where you are, you won't be able to move away from that place. So I know its hard but be reassured that you are doing the right thing dealing with this stuff not only for yourself but for your mother.

AG

quote:

maybe instead of blame you could have compassion for the difficulties and mistakes it is so easy to make.

Thanks HB. MY T asks me, "Why does there have to be blame? Your parents did the best they could and so are you." I have a lot of difficulty not seeing things as black/white, right/wrong. The grey areas are difficult for me, but I am trying.

JM
Once again, we have so much in common. I have a 23 year old son, although he is not the one with the big issues. (I'm sure that I have screwed up some of his brain patterns too though.) I do know that my healing is helping my son. I am reacting differently to his problems than I did before. He is more willing to talk to me about his issues because I don't react the way I did before. It is kind of like the transference thing with my T. I tell her things and she reacts in a positive way and not like I am expecting her to. Therefore she is helping me to build those positive brain patterns. I hope that is happening with my son. By reacting positively and not as negatively as I did before, I hope he is becoming more trusting of me and more honest with his feelings. Thank goodness for T's eh? She has really opened my mind and I know I am on the road to a better life.

PL

quote:

It is kind of like the transference thing with my T. I tell her things and she reacts in a positive way and not like I am expecting her to. Therefore she is helping me to build those positive brain patterns. I hope that is happening with my son. By reacting positively and not as negatively as I did before, I hope he is becoming more trusting of me and more honest with his feelings.

I believe this is very true! I am sure your son appreciates that very much PL. I am thankful I have this oppportunity to do this for my daughter and step sons. It has made a big difference in all my relationships. It amazes me that even with just one person in therapy the whole family can heal.
Thank goodness!

AG,

I'm not familiar with Bowen but I'll certainly take a look.

Boy, you really hit the nail on the head with your feedback (as usual ). Are you sure you did not grow up in my family? Your description fits us to a T, especially the idea that when a member of the herd starts to question the structure, health and authenticity of the family system, that heretic is looked at with some raised eyebrows and treated a little differently. My family has done a bit of that with me, but I'm grateful because they could be a lot worse.

And as for the weapon of choice being guilt...oh boy, that one is right on target. The not-so-subtle suggestion that I'm an ungrateful little bastard because I've never wanted for anything and have more than most ever get, etc. etc. Yep, that one is right there.

Thanks to everyone for their wonderful responses. It is SO helpful for me to hear all of you. Thanks so much.

Russ

Russ,
I get it just because that's exactly what my family was like. I have one older sister with whom I'm very close, mainly because both of us have done significant amounts of work in therapy. By the time I was in my mid 20s we were fairly estranged. although we had been very close growing up. She decided to approach me and I remember part of what was so significant about getting to know each other was that in our family, my sister was the "crazy" one. Guess why, because she kept saying there's something wrong here. For that she got labled crazy so everyone could ignore her. I was the spoiled baby, although I've worked hard for everything I have. We were able to confirm to each other what our roles had been and helped each other to break out of that. So although the rest of the family wasn't too happy, we were able to change together and move away from the system.

I always find it interesting that the people who are being told the most that they should be thankful have the least to be thankful about, at least from their family of origin. I hope you can get the encouragement you need here to keep looking honestly at yourlife and making the changes you need to make.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
I always find it interesting that the people who are being told the most that they should be thankful have the least to be thankful about, at least from their family of origin.

AG,

I'm really glad to hear this. It makes me feel like I'm not the only one.

My mother is guilt-tripping me into talking with her once a week, and she says, "I know some parents who called their kids everyday!" This of course is just another passive-aggressive way of saying, "be thankful that I'm not asking MORE of you, you ungrateful child!"

And of course there's always the old "we're not going to be around much longer" line.

You know, some days it's stunning how much anger I have for these friggin' people.

Thanks again.
Russ

Russ,

I've had to cut off my 'rents a bit, too. And it's hard. And they don't understand, and neither does my brother, 'cause they're acres past knee-deep in denial. Crazy things happen in my family, CRAZY things, and then we just forget them. Last summer? My dad went hyper-manic and psychotic, put my mom's life in danger repeatedly, threw my mom and I out of the house, and repeatedly threatened to kill me/bury me if we didn't come back. My mom moved out for a while, and now she's back with him (he's a bit more stable on meds now).

Have we talked about any of this? mentioned it? Not at all. Have I returned for holidays? I have. Even slept under his roof! But there's been no discussion, no rocking of aforesaid crazyboat.

When _we_ can deny that these things are a problem, or were a problem, or were at least a wee bit out of the norm, I can only _imagine_ all of the "lesser" harmful/hurtful/troublesome things lurking that I haven't even touched yet, 'cause they're...not quite as big.

9 months? Sounds like a good start. But I feel like I get the pushback you're feeling; my mom doesn't worry about why I'm not "better yet", but she _does_ think it's awful I'm talking to a stranger (strangerS, actually!) about Family Business.

S'good to hear from you. I feel like saying something like, "stay strong around them," but honestly it sounds like you've got a lot well in hand. You know it takes time, that it's hard work, and that folks should lay off your case.

Hi Wynne,

Thanks for the reply and the kind words. I'm sorry your family has known so much discord. That must be very difficult to deal with.

One of the things that makes my family's dysfunction so hard to think and talk about is that there's not a lot of overt neurosis like it sounds like there is in your family. Our dysfunction is subtle, unsaid and lives just below the veneer of normalcy and happiness. Sometimes I think it would be easier if my family was more overt in its dysfunction because there'd be less doubt about it, but probably not.

Anyway, thanks again for the input.

Russ

Russ,

I didn't mean to compare, but I was hoping to convey just the thing you said - that the smaller stuff is probably even harder to point out, 'cause there's this nagging doubt that you're wrong, it's not a problem, you shouldn't worry about it, etc.

When folks can't even talk about overt stuff, I was trying to say, it'd be even _harder_ to bring up stuff where there's doubt in your mind about its badness. Harder, in a lot of ways, I was thinking.

Thanks, Wynne. You're completely right.

Even years ago when I was very young I remember thinking to myself, "why am I so angry at these two people? They feed me, clothe me, buy me stuff, and are even sometimes nice to me, etc...but they make me cringe! What's wrong with me!"

Well, now I'm starting to understand.

Russ

Russ,
The other one that DRIVES ME BONKERS but usually comes from well-intentioned friends is the "but there are people who have had it worse" like someone else being in pain is going to eliminate yours. ARRGGGHHHH!

But trust me, I get the high level of anger, I have been amazed at some of the rage that has gotten expressed in my Ts office. And sometimes its even expressed towards the people who deserve it.

AG

quote:

The other one that DRIVES ME BONKERS but usually comes from well-intentioned friends is the "but there are people who have had it worse" like someone else being in pain is going to eliminate yours.

AG

This made me chuckle because I have said to my T, numerous times, "I should just be able to get over this. There are people who have more difficult problems than I do." To which she says, "Does that make YOU and your problems feel any better?" I sheepishly answer, no. Then we move on.

I have found that it does no good to compare my problems to anyone else. My problems are my problems and to me they are painful, frightening, and very real. For those 50 minutes, my T is there for me, and anything that I have to say or feel is the most important thing at the moment. I have told her that she makes me feel like I am her only client. She says that while we are in the room, I am. It feels so good to have someone be there just for you, and you alone.

PL

Update: during my session tonight, I told my T about my mom's comments about me "getting better", etc, etc. He said that this idea that my family has of me being "ill" is really dangerous and that I should really look out for myself in the face of this. He said my mother's comment about "if that ever happens" in reference to me sort of coming back into the fold of the family was incredibly cutting and poisonous.

And when I started to say, "well my parents are old, conservative, etc" he cut me off and said, "that's bullshit. You're protecting them. You're still fighting with your gloves on. You have to take them off."

I love my T.

Russ

Russ,

I love your T too! He sounds like a good one. I'm glad that he's looking out for you even when you can't. And that he calls it as he sees it.

AG

Russ,
I am glad your T said that and is taking care of you that way. Sometimes that sort of directness from them is very convincing and that is just what we need sometimes to clear away our own doubts.

Hmm... seems it wasn't that long ago you felt he was emotionless or something like that. I feel some emotion and deep concern for you in those words. I hope that resonates deeply for you Russ. I am smiling real big for you right now.
JM

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
Russ,
I am glad your T said that and is taking care of you that way. Sometimes that sort of directness from them is very convincing and that is just what we need sometimes to clear away our own doubts.

quote:

Hmm... seems it wasn't that long ago you felt he was emotionless or something like that. I feel some emotion and deep concern for you in those words. I hope that resonates deeply for you Russ. I am smiling real big for you right now.
JM

You're right, JM. I was complaining that he wasn't encouraging enough.

Thanks again, everyone. You guys are the best.
Russ