Frog - I'm sorry that I can't speak much to this. I'm hoping that you are feeling a bit better since you last posted. Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you.

Smiley

Smiley, your so sweet. Thanks for dropping in to speak. I am doing OK, and i guess the post aint really the easiest one to reply on..lol - i just reread my own post and I dont even know how to understand it and what to respond at.. I`ve been tempted to delete the whole confuzing thing... that part aint so funny though.hmm.

when i give it a second thought- i guess its all about the triggering text and fear of braking my T`s boundries (which i dont even know what are, - we never had the "talk" about them- there is actually another great thread here about that, i should keep digging on it for more insight into this mess of mine!)

Scaredtoriskmyself`s thread is the one i was reffering to! "fear of crossing the boundaries"

Frog I wish I had more experience of the ‘goodies’ in therapy to be able to reply with something useful. I can see you’re in so much pain and confusion right now and I wish I could say, no it’s ok what you are feeling now is temporary, you’ll get those loving feelings back soon. But I just don’t know, I’ve never been attached to a T so at best I’d be guessing, just as I’m guessing when I say I wonder if you haven’t been plunged into sadness because of your T’s comment about the relationship having to end sometime.

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I still battle with my T on this one. I say, "tell me what you think/know/etc"/ i know you know- stuff, he replies that no, he doesnt know/ or that i am the one that have the answer. I cant help it, I keep hurting from that he wont share his "wisdom" nor tell me what he thinks. Doesnt matter that i know very well that I AM the one in focus and yes, blabla the therapy is about me.. I get that. But i am tired of being in focus, tired of being the one to just *guess* what he thinks of, tired of feeling like i am shielded from important stuff that he knows/thinks/ feels.

Oh boy can I relate to this. Just by virtue of a T being a T I too have that sense that they ‘know’ a whole lot more about me than they are letting on - that they have a clear idea of me and my problems and won’t say anything because I’m supposed to find it out for myself.

It’s so hard not to feel like this - I think because in part it’s important that as a client I have to believe that T has a greater knowledge than me, otherwise wtf am I doing there???? But in reality, I’m pretty clear that Ts don’t actually know anything more than we do about ourselves. That they find out about us at the same time as we find out about ourselves. That the greater knowledge they have is about people generally, patterns, beliefs, feelings - but that with individual clients all they can do is apply what they know as a sort of guidance, suggestions, potential avenues of exploration. More’s the pity

So maybe your T is right when he says that he doesn’t know? And maybe somewhere inside you you’re really really angry about that. He SHOULD know (well that’s how I feel a lot of the time )

Frog it doesn’t sound to me like you’re crossing boundaries or doing anything wrong - sounds like you’re doing exactly what you need to be doing in therapy - keep pushing for what you feel you need and want - even if rationally you might see that it’s not going to happen. It’s staying with those needs and wants that’s going to give you the understanding and healing you’re looking for - no matter how irrational or unreasonable you might feel them to be. And if you’re feeling sad and upset about how things are between you and T right now - that’s all stuff to bring up too. The painful part maybe? The very thing you went into therapy to avoid, get fixed, in the first place?

I say that because that’s exactly where I am myself. Plunged into all these awful black fears and doubts that I’ve assumed would just *poof* disappear all by themselves once I’d worked through everything else. And whaddya know but the very thing I’m most terrified of, the very feelings and things that I’ve assumed were the end result of my problems, are the very heart of my problems in the first place. Having to deal with them IS my therapy now. Bleh who needs it!

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I keep wishing he will "talk me out" of my pain

You know what, that’s me exactly! Every session with every therapist I’ve ever had, this is the sense I’ve come away with, that somehow T is supposed to do or say something that will make me feel better (even though rationally I know it doesn’t work like that.) Endlessly trying to find some comfort in what T says, always hoping to hear that one thing that will magically make my pain diminish a little. And it never happens. So I figure, I just go in and say that. Doesn’t matter that it’s impossible and will never happen - I NEED IT so I will keep pursuing it until it’s finally understood one way or the other. Just because you can’t get something doesn’t mean you mustn’t want it. It’s dealing with the not getting that’s the core issue for me - maybe that’s where you are finding yourself now too?

Hey Frog don’t know if what I’ve said is of any earthly use whatsoever, but do want you to know I feel for you and wish I could just reach over there and give you a great big comforting hug and take away some of your sadness.

LL

Dearest Lamplighter, oh how lovely to have your words now. They are SO helpful and wise as always- I mean it sincerely lamplighter, there is no proportionality polite façade, when i say so. You know that? (i feel like i am useing up my superlatives every time i am about to thank you ) i understand that you are (painfully) aware of this issues- despite that you say you havent experienced the attachment to a T, yet you obviously have battled with the same related issues. I am sorry you know a great deal about this youself. This battle is very common ones btw- as pasients almost always form the notion of the T as someone whom KNOWS. I think its beeing understood in psychotherapy as a kind of a "therapy law.." - this term of "the therapist whom suppose to know"-thing!
(yep, i deed some research on it, and once My T told me this a long time ago, he linked it to some historical stuff about Socrates and his student, whom admired him for his knowlidge! Lol, this is a funny memory, because my T went totally intellectual on me because i brought up the loverable feelings/crush i had for him! He`s way "out" of the tention i guess!)

i was tempted to qote the entire reply, but i guess i will be sitting all night if i was about to respond to each sentence of yours..hehee..cant do that.Cant fall asleep on my T`s office tomorrow... well, i dunno, actually that is a nice thought right now..i wouldnt have to do the damned talking... ANYWAYS:

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I say I wonder if you haven’t been plunged into sadness because of your T’s comment about the relationship having to end sometime.

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thank you for bringing up this interpret again- i DID respond to this on the other thread, but my reply was deleted- (arrg) so glad i have the chance to clear up in this.. You see, i was unclear about this. My T actually never said out loud that he wasnt going to be there forever. I was the one whom brought it up (again) and most of the time my T will make sure that the time-aspect of the therapy is totally open and up to me to decide when to end it. Allthoug- you have right about this causing alot of the sadness. A different type of sadness than just the usual seperation angst that used to accour... I guess its relatet to the feelings of NOT feeling so spescial anymore, nor are the fuzziest feelings so strong as they were. Its just all become so.. normal in a way. Or, like you suggested- there`s just seem to bee much more room for the sadness now. And anger, indeed!! I am not used to handle this feelings..not with my T. And i am terryfied that my sudden anger and sadness will destroy every bit of the "good" stuff...yet, to make it more complicated- lol- its something very deliberating with it as well. I think my T knows (suprise, suprise!) that its time for me to start complaining more. Both about him (for not gving me "enough") and about life in general. Like he WANTS me to start feel the legitim pain - and not cover it up with a (false) "thankful" mind... In my fantasies, i have been raging against my T for so long.. i am starting to feel ready to do it IN REAL now, in his presens, you know? (i know you know..you "gave" me this insight a long time ago actually. the rage thing.) I think me calling him "dumb" was a tiny step in that direction.. i need to become more like that angry 8-year old. lol.

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I think because in part it’s important that as a client I have to believe that T has a greater knowledge than me, otherwise wtf am I doing there???? But in reality, I’m pretty clear that Ts don’t actually know anything more than we do about ourselves. That they find out about us at the same time as we find out about ourselves.

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i think so too. And i agree- why would we manage to open up and even want to go there, if T didnt had greater knowlidge thatn us?? Yes, yes, yes. I NEED my T to "fit" that picture of mine, as the old-wise guy. Its powerful and enriching(?) for me to be in presens with wiser people then me. You put it great- in a way they dond know more about us, than we do ourselfs (how could they, really?) though they can offor the support on the "journey" and discover things while we do. Oh..but i think this believing in T`s holding a greater knowlidge, serves a purpose: It makes us tuned into them, makes us (at least a part of us) want to connect with them, and involve. I dont want my T to ruin this "imagery" of him. I know he wants me to ut him down from the high pidestal as this all-knowing guy, but i NEED him to stay there. To be allowed to have this "faith". And i dont agree that it`s all just an illution.. In a sense, my T (every T) does HAVE knowlidge about us on a individual sense as well, that we are unaware of..like all the uncouncious stuff that my T interprets... you know?

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So maybe your T is right when he says that he doesn’t know? And maybe somewhere inside you you’re really really angry about that. He SHOULD know (well that’s how I feel a lot of the time )

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i get you madness i think i allready commented on this. Yep, THEY SHOULD KNOW! (lol how dare they not?) He should know PLENTY about me, he should understand me, he should know how to reach me, he should know how to respond to me, he should know how to help me, he shuld know what i feel (even if i dont say it ) he should know what hurts me, he should know what i need, what i want, what i fear, what i think.......ah...endless list. lol. Poor T. He`s doing his best i guess...Problem`s just that right now even that aint good enough for me. Hate that. i HATE feeling so unthankful to him. After ALL his effort and patints and tolerans and good-will...

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And if you’re feeling sad and upset about how things are between you and T right now - that’s all stuff to bring up too. The painful part maybe? The very thing you went into therapy to avoid, get fixed, in the first place?

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Creds to you for finding out whats the heart of your problems LL. I am curious about how you figured out..its seems like a endelss hunting for me- flipping stones and searching for answers from my past.. i dont even know why i started in therapy in the first place. Just some vague formulated ideas. I dunno anymore.

This qoter, ....this brought tears to my eyes. You right. I know i will propably dream about something related to this, tonight, i hope so, then i will have the chance to at least bring up the dream in session tomorrow- hoping that it will reveal all the the pain and the sadness that i cant verbalize right now..And hopefully he will magically understand it all, and just reflect back his understanding of it and the "medicin" to it. that wont happen, i know. But i WILL give it a try, i want my T to understand this. Its urgent! Its essential that he does..even if i dont.

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Endlessly trying to find some comfort in what T says, always hoping to hear that one thing that will magically make my pain diminish a little.

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yeah- you do that as well?..so you are not the one who comfort your T? hehee..sorry, kidding. I hope you will soon HAVE some of the comfort you deserve ll. There IS comfort out there. Somewhere.
You have no idea how meny tricks i got- as i try to (secretly) get this comfort from my T. Sometimes i just "catch myself" lying on the divan, listening to his words, almost soaking them up, and carefully listen to his voice as if it was a medicin itself. ok- time to stop frog.
Lamplighter, i hope you are doin`OK?, i am thinking about you alot these days, as i know you have plenty with worries about your own therapy stuff..Hope *rellay hope* your situation has become better... Thanks again Lamps. And ps: I appreciate every of your interprets! Trust me, i will let you know if you`re off

Hey there Frog how are you doing? How did your next session go? Did you manage to dream something that you could bring to him and talk about? I hope that you've been able to bring some of this stuff up with him - it sure sounds like you're going through a painful period right now. Maybe that's a good sign, that you're touching on things that have been hidden away until now. Excuse my rambling, I just wanted to write to you, let you know I'm thinking of you, but haven't got much of value to say right now.

So just sending you BIG cyber hugs, and hoping you're doing ok.

LL

I did it
I told him about the sadness, that our relationship has changed, about the need to have some comfort words (him to talk more)about the need to have the notion of him as "he one whom knows" and so on. It was good. Of course we ended up talking about the lack of comfort ans kindly words in my childhood (good old "back to the childhood-" interprets.lol) It was hard, but yet it was a good session. Of course my T went more than usual silent but i know he understood. I am in a flow of strange, new sadness and struggles about this chifting view about him and therapy in general, but i am ok. As long as i know understands its ok. Though, the anger-part is still such a damned thing..the anger that builds up between sessions,and in my fantazy, just melts away the very moment i enter the office. Why is this so?? ugh..gotta work on that, i know..
thanks for asking ll! Looks like i have made a serious monologue- thread here!

Hi Frog,

I've been following along, and I first want to say that I'm sorry you're experiencing such pain and confusion. I am glad, however, that your last session was good for you and that you were able to air out some thoughts.

I wonder, could you write your thoughts/feeling down in between sessions, especially those times when you feel such anger, and read it to your T in session? And perhaps explain everything to him, especially that it all fades away when you enter his office. I know a bit what you're talking about, not necessarily with the anger, but I tend to feel kinda crappy outside of sessions, but once I get into the waiting room, it all disappears. I mean, it's all part of this wall I've built up to keep me from sharing feelings with others, but it's still really frustrating, because I feel like I can't tell my T what I really feel like. I'm too scared to actually bring stuff in to the session that I've written beforehand, but I will read over something like a journal entry just before my session to remind myself of how I felt before, even if I'm not feeling that way now. Then I will just tell my T how I felt before and how I feel now and how frustrating it is that I can't access those feelings in her office. It helps, because we get into conversations about why I feel the need to be so blocked off to others, especially her, but she also does a lot to try and make me feel more comfortable (emotionally and physically) to allow myself to feel. It hasn't worked much yet, but it's getting there.

Anyway, I'm really glad you were able to open up a bit more to your T, and please keep us updated on how you're doing.