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(((RT)))
I am sorry you're hurting.
I am among those who read and did not comment: I am new here and don't know you well enough and was afraid of saying something wrong.
But I am reading you, and am so sorry you are hurt. (((RT)))
I am sorry you're hurting.
I am among those who read and did not comment: I am new here and don't know you well enough and was afraid of saying something wrong.
But I am reading you, and am so sorry you are hurt. (((RT)))
((RT)) I saw your post this morning but had an appointment I had to run to. I didn't get time to respond to anything till now.
I know your hurting. I don't think there is anything that anyone can say that can make this any better for you. You know what she can give. If that doesn't fit your needs you have to move on as painful as that may be.
My father has rejected me my whole life because I am not as thin as he thinks I should be. He calls my brother and sister, gives them birthday presents, keeps in touch with them. Not me. I kept trying to have some sort of relationship with him but I've realized all that does it keep opening me up to be hurt again and again. He has shown me time and again what he is willing to give me. I just had to stop expecting anything more. You can't change another person. Your T is never going to be able to give you what you want hon. I know it is painful to leave and painful to try again with someone new. But there is hope that the next time you might be able to find the right person for you.
Thinking of you.
Jillann
I know your hurting. I don't think there is anything that anyone can say that can make this any better for you. You know what she can give. If that doesn't fit your needs you have to move on as painful as that may be.
My father has rejected me my whole life because I am not as thin as he thinks I should be. He calls my brother and sister, gives them birthday presents, keeps in touch with them. Not me. I kept trying to have some sort of relationship with him but I've realized all that does it keep opening me up to be hurt again and again. He has shown me time and again what he is willing to give me. I just had to stop expecting anything more. You can't change another person. Your T is never going to be able to give you what you want hon. I know it is painful to leave and painful to try again with someone new. But there is hope that the next time you might be able to find the right person for you.
Thinking of you.
Jillann
(((RT)))
I am so sorry you are hurting like this. Please stay safe.
FWIW, I don't think the view counter is at all accurate. I have seen it jump by fifteen or more views between the time I clicked on a thread and then clicked back to the sub forum it was on. Don't know exactly how it works, but I'm assuming each click gets counted as multiple "views" for whatever reason.
I am so sorry you are hurting like this. Please stay safe.
FWIW, I don't think the view counter is at all accurate. I have seen it jump by fifteen or more views between the time I clicked on a thread and then clicked back to the sub forum it was on. Don't know exactly how it works, but I'm assuming each click gets counted as multiple "views" for whatever reason.
(((RT))) I know how discouraging it can get to know people are reading, but not commenting. It can freak me out when I'm vulnerable too. Part of it is having some people here who only or mostly feel comfortable reading. Another part is people sometimes just not knowing what to say. In my case, it was reading it on my Kindle in bed at a very late hour and deciding it would be better to come back and reread/comment when I was less foggy, which I did this morning, but I'll have to go from memory.
I think it was wrong of your T to have this conversation before she was sure and settled on what she could offer. To offer to look for a pink car when she only had black was irresponsible and played yoyo with your feelings. She obviously wants to provide you with more because she cares, but I think her looking for it sounds like it had more to do with her own discomfort/ambivalence with her boundaries or aversion to having failed in some way, instead of what the best manner of handling her need to shift her boundaries was (best for you, that is). I could be wrong, but I would have liked her to thoroughly work through her own thoughts/feelings on the matter with a consult/supervision, then come to you certain. Leaving you hanging for days, then telling you on the phone, was not in your best interest at all, and I feel like she should have known that. I doubt her intentions were bad...but she could have handled a really difficult situation in a much more therapeutic way.
It sounded, also, like she doesn't fully get the attachment stuff structure work together was churning up, but it's hard to tell from way back here.
I'm so sorry you're in pain right now. If my T did something like this out of the blue about the extra he gives, I know how many awful messages it would trigger in me. It did so just when he wouldn't sit closer to me for a while, and that was because I was getting activated, going into fight, flight, freeze...and he did consult about it, and well, in retrospect I'm kind of amazed by how he handled how destabilizing that was for me...
Stay with us, keep talking if you can. You're not alone.
I think it was wrong of your T to have this conversation before she was sure and settled on what she could offer. To offer to look for a pink car when she only had black was irresponsible and played yoyo with your feelings. She obviously wants to provide you with more because she cares, but I think her looking for it sounds like it had more to do with her own discomfort/ambivalence with her boundaries or aversion to having failed in some way, instead of what the best manner of handling her need to shift her boundaries was (best for you, that is). I could be wrong, but I would have liked her to thoroughly work through her own thoughts/feelings on the matter with a consult/supervision, then come to you certain. Leaving you hanging for days, then telling you on the phone, was not in your best interest at all, and I feel like she should have known that. I doubt her intentions were bad...but she could have handled a really difficult situation in a much more therapeutic way.
It sounded, also, like she doesn't fully get the attachment stuff structure work together was churning up, but it's hard to tell from way back here.
I'm so sorry you're in pain right now. If my T did something like this out of the blue about the extra he gives, I know how many awful messages it would trigger in me. It did so just when he wouldn't sit closer to me for a while, and that was because I was getting activated, going into fight, flight, freeze...and he did consult about it, and well, in retrospect I'm kind of amazed by how he handled how destabilizing that was for me...
Stay with us, keep talking if you can. You're not alone.
RT: It's not worth killing yourself over therapy. There are plenty of other therapists out there who will and can provide what you need to become a WHOLE person.
Don't give up. Find what and whom you need to get to where you need to be.
T.
Don't give up. Find what and whom you need to get to where you need to be.
T.
((RT))
I didn't see your post last night but I'm sorry that you are in so much pain. Please take gentle care of yourself. You can find a new T when you are ready.
I didn't see your post last night but I'm sorry that you are in so much pain. Please take gentle care of yourself. You can find a new T when you are ready.
(((RT)))
I'm so sorry that you are in so much pain right now!
I'm so sorry that you are in so much pain right now!
Hi RT... I totally missed your post. I have not been around much as I'm still struggling with being so sick with this upper respiratory/ear infection thing I have. So tired of coughing...
Anyway, I will say that I am very sorry for what your T is putting you through. From what I can tell she is limiting sessions? taking away time? I know that if my T was to take back one of my sessions without much warning or discussion, it would send me into a terrible downward spiral. So I can understand the depth of your pain.
I, obviously, do not know the whole story but I would have to say from what I have read, that your T is not a good fit for you. She does not offer what you feel you need to move ahead and she also does not seem to have a deep understanding of attachment wounds. If she did, then she would know how important it is to remain steady and consistent. This is something I have learned the very hard way.
Ideally, I would like to see you find someone else and walk away from her. But I know how terribly hard that is to do. I had a bad, incompetent, inconsistent oldT and I hung in there desparately trying to save the relationship.... just like I did for so many years with my parents.... and in the end he abandoned me harshly and caused me to have PTSD on top of my complex PTSD. It took me two years of intensive therapy to recover from that. Two years of pure hell. I really try not to blame myself for not seeing the red flags and for not walking away first. I think if I had walked away on my own then I would not have felt that awful powerlessness that was so hard to deal with. The total abandonment. I would have had the control instead of feeling that I had lost control over everything in my life.
I really do not want you to experience this.
I do feel that it's only a matter of time before you will need more from her, she will deny you and you will have a severe rupture again. You would be trying to make yourself into something you are not just to fit into her requirement of therapy. Of course, I do not advocate pushing boundaries and/or violating them and that we should have everything we want in the therpeutic relationship.... not at all.
But I do think that some things need to be negotiated and some T's are better equipped to work with attachment issues, trauma and PTSD. I did not ask for outside contact... my T plainly told me he offered it at our first session. He explained the guidelines in our next session. I told him I thought it would be more helpful to have 2 seesion a week to keep me regulated. He said that would fine and when he had an opening he would put me in for a standing appt. I waited 4 months for that spot. When I told him I would like a few longer sessions in between.... I had to explain why and he listened and said that would be doable with advance warning. I have had exactly ONE double session and that request was made 2 years ago. He was open to hearing me but his schedule does not allow longer sessions and he also does not believe that they are necessary and 50 minutes is long enough for a patient to work in therapy.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that some Ts have what works better for us but if they do not offer or believe in what we need then it's really hard for us to shoe horn outselves into that relationship. If we want psychodynamic and they only do CBT then there will be disruptions. If we need outside contact to stay regulated and they do not offer it, then we will remain dysregulated and it will cause further issues in the relationship unless we can discuss it and find something else that works to keep us regulated.
I know first hand what a horrible place you are in. I had a six week long disruption with my oldT before he totally abandoned me and banished me forever. This board, a very few close friends and my current T were what saved me. I will always be grateful for having all 3.
I hope you find your way to a better place, RT. That road is long and difficult but I am confident that you can do it.
Hugs
TN
Anyway, I will say that I am very sorry for what your T is putting you through. From what I can tell she is limiting sessions? taking away time? I know that if my T was to take back one of my sessions without much warning or discussion, it would send me into a terrible downward spiral. So I can understand the depth of your pain.
I, obviously, do not know the whole story but I would have to say from what I have read, that your T is not a good fit for you. She does not offer what you feel you need to move ahead and she also does not seem to have a deep understanding of attachment wounds. If she did, then she would know how important it is to remain steady and consistent. This is something I have learned the very hard way.
Ideally, I would like to see you find someone else and walk away from her. But I know how terribly hard that is to do. I had a bad, incompetent, inconsistent oldT and I hung in there desparately trying to save the relationship.... just like I did for so many years with my parents.... and in the end he abandoned me harshly and caused me to have PTSD on top of my complex PTSD. It took me two years of intensive therapy to recover from that. Two years of pure hell. I really try not to blame myself for not seeing the red flags and for not walking away first. I think if I had walked away on my own then I would not have felt that awful powerlessness that was so hard to deal with. The total abandonment. I would have had the control instead of feeling that I had lost control over everything in my life.
I really do not want you to experience this.
I do feel that it's only a matter of time before you will need more from her, she will deny you and you will have a severe rupture again. You would be trying to make yourself into something you are not just to fit into her requirement of therapy. Of course, I do not advocate pushing boundaries and/or violating them and that we should have everything we want in the therpeutic relationship.... not at all.
But I do think that some things need to be negotiated and some T's are better equipped to work with attachment issues, trauma and PTSD. I did not ask for outside contact... my T plainly told me he offered it at our first session. He explained the guidelines in our next session. I told him I thought it would be more helpful to have 2 seesion a week to keep me regulated. He said that would fine and when he had an opening he would put me in for a standing appt. I waited 4 months for that spot. When I told him I would like a few longer sessions in between.... I had to explain why and he listened and said that would be doable with advance warning. I have had exactly ONE double session and that request was made 2 years ago. He was open to hearing me but his schedule does not allow longer sessions and he also does not believe that they are necessary and 50 minutes is long enough for a patient to work in therapy.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that some Ts have what works better for us but if they do not offer or believe in what we need then it's really hard for us to shoe horn outselves into that relationship. If we want psychodynamic and they only do CBT then there will be disruptions. If we need outside contact to stay regulated and they do not offer it, then we will remain dysregulated and it will cause further issues in the relationship unless we can discuss it and find something else that works to keep us regulated.
I know first hand what a horrible place you are in. I had a six week long disruption with my oldT before he totally abandoned me and banished me forever. This board, a very few close friends and my current T were what saved me. I will always be grateful for having all 3.
I hope you find your way to a better place, RT. That road is long and difficult but I am confident that you can do it.
Hugs
TN
How are you doing today, RT?
Thinking of you.
TN
Thinking of you.
TN
I am thinking of you RT
RT
I'm sorry your T doesn't seem to get it. Is it ringing alarm bells for you at all?
SHe is still offering to see you and I know the frame has been changed without much discussion and that's awful. I guess its about deciding if you can continue to work with her in those circumstances. Partly I think this will be dictated on how she handles your hurt feelings over this. IMHO if she can't acknowledge that you feel the withdrawal of sessions is hurtful and a rejection, then Im not sure she is the right person for you.
The other thing is that email is a minefield for miscommunications and misunderstandings. That's why many T's don't use it at all or write very short (ie one sentence) replies. I really think these are feelings and circumstances that can only be discussed and resolved in person. I don't even think phone is a good medium for this. You both need to see each other's reactions and be able to reply moment to moment.
I know this leaves you feeling hurt, confused, unwanted and frightened. Sending thoughts, love and hugs your way xxxx
I'm sorry your T doesn't seem to get it. Is it ringing alarm bells for you at all?
SHe is still offering to see you and I know the frame has been changed without much discussion and that's awful. I guess its about deciding if you can continue to work with her in those circumstances. Partly I think this will be dictated on how she handles your hurt feelings over this. IMHO if she can't acknowledge that you feel the withdrawal of sessions is hurtful and a rejection, then Im not sure she is the right person for you.
The other thing is that email is a minefield for miscommunications and misunderstandings. That's why many T's don't use it at all or write very short (ie one sentence) replies. I really think these are feelings and circumstances that can only be discussed and resolved in person. I don't even think phone is a good medium for this. You both need to see each other's reactions and be able to reply moment to moment.
I know this leaves you feeling hurt, confused, unwanted and frightened. Sending thoughts, love and hugs your way xxxx
RT.
i still can't read this thread without feeling like I have eaten cement - I fill with anxiety and fear and utter panic.
Sorry, i cannot read in depth nor answer. It is too severely triggering for me.
I am thinking of you and wish I could offer supportive words.
Somedays
i still can't read this thread without feeling like I have eaten cement - I fill with anxiety and fear and utter panic.
Sorry, i cannot read in depth nor answer. It is too severely triggering for me.
I am thinking of you and wish I could offer supportive words.
Somedays
RT,
I'm so sorry for what your T has been putting you through. I wonder if they have any idea how big the pain is when they cause it. I totally understand how you are feeling.
I too was terminated by my T after almost 4 years. No warnings, no talking about any issues before hand. I never had a closing session and had no choice but to move on.
I use to get mad at her at times and I would show my anger through text messages. It didn't happen a lot, but it happened, I guess enough. She would tell me she was going on vacation at the very end of my last session before her vacation. This was a trigger for me for some reason and I asked time and time again for more notice. I did get more notice at times but not all the time. I didn't see my T for 3 weeks due to the hurricane, when I went back she told me again at the end of my session she was on vacation the following week. After thinking about this for a while my anger took over and I started texting her. She called me one night and told me not to come back. She said I have BPD and she is not qualified to help me. Needless to say I did not take it well. It's been 7 months and although it's still hard, and even though she caused me a lot of pain, I do think I'm in a better place with the T I have because I'm in a BPD group and I feel it will help me a lot. My point to this long post is maybe you would be better off moving on. As hard as it is, we all know it is extremely hard to move on when we become so attached, I know I was very attached to my T, you may find you are better off.
Believe me, I know the pain you are in all to well, and you feel like if you can not see your T anymore you can't go on. I felt the same way. My panic attacks were so bad I thought I was going to pass out. I can't say it's not still hard, and I am still not over my abrupt termination, but I now know it will get better with time and help.
Good luck to you RT. Go easy on yourself, it's not our fault when our T's don't know how to handle certain situations and need to work on their own issues.
I'm so sorry for what your T has been putting you through. I wonder if they have any idea how big the pain is when they cause it. I totally understand how you are feeling.
I too was terminated by my T after almost 4 years. No warnings, no talking about any issues before hand. I never had a closing session and had no choice but to move on.
I use to get mad at her at times and I would show my anger through text messages. It didn't happen a lot, but it happened, I guess enough. She would tell me she was going on vacation at the very end of my last session before her vacation. This was a trigger for me for some reason and I asked time and time again for more notice. I did get more notice at times but not all the time. I didn't see my T for 3 weeks due to the hurricane, when I went back she told me again at the end of my session she was on vacation the following week. After thinking about this for a while my anger took over and I started texting her. She called me one night and told me not to come back. She said I have BPD and she is not qualified to help me. Needless to say I did not take it well. It's been 7 months and although it's still hard, and even though she caused me a lot of pain, I do think I'm in a better place with the T I have because I'm in a BPD group and I feel it will help me a lot. My point to this long post is maybe you would be better off moving on. As hard as it is, we all know it is extremely hard to move on when we become so attached, I know I was very attached to my T, you may find you are better off.
Believe me, I know the pain you are in all to well, and you feel like if you can not see your T anymore you can't go on. I felt the same way. My panic attacks were so bad I thought I was going to pass out. I can't say it's not still hard, and I am still not over my abrupt termination, but I now know it will get better with time and help.
Good luck to you RT. Go easy on yourself, it's not our fault when our T's don't know how to handle certain situations and need to work on their own issues.
Good point RT, I can imagine it would be pretty stressful too when a T with emotional problems is being continually provoked/triggered by that of his/her patients.
One would hope psych establishments are aware of the problem, and have enforced some kind of testing procedure to ensure "help" is stable enough to cope with their own problems as well as their patients.
.
One would hope psych establishments are aware of the problem, and have enforced some kind of testing procedure to ensure "help" is stable enough to cope with their own problems as well as their patients.
.
quote:One of the absolute worst things a T could do is abandon a client. I think those are cases where the T is too inexperienced or immature and scared and wants to break and run.
It's awful. My T has said... a T can only take you as far as they have taken themselves.
Imagine the dentist stopping half way through an extraction and saying, "That's all I know"?
Its more on the line of criminal neglect when T's abandon their patients. They never should have been in that position of power in the first place.
.
Its more on the line of criminal neglect when T's abandon their patients. They never should have been in that position of power in the first place.
.
Scary stuff! And how easy would it be for the power hungriest of all sociopath to sit behind a desk and fuk with anothers mind? I'd settle for you any day.
soooo, this must be the therapist-bashing thread...
i don't mean to be insensitive, but RT i think you've taken this far enough. your T is quite obviously not a good fit. i'm sorry that it hurts like hell. and i know that these kinds of things can take awhile to heal. i understand that. but now you're starting to make it sound like everybody that is in the healing profession is sketchy at best. i truly am sorry that your T is not willing to bend her boundaries for you. but, frankly, you need to either accept that or move on. i'm sorry that both of those options can be hard to accept. like most parents, most therapists will not be "good enough". you have suffered enough hurt from her. you will not change her stand, and if you try to you will more than likely make her stand even more firm. either accept it and stay with her or accept it and move on. for your own sake.
come here and hurt all you want. that's what this place is for. i believe coming here is good (for the most part). but when you start bashing a profession that i believe is vastly in the majority of helping vs. hurting for the benefit of making your own stuff "heard" or whatever, i draw the line. and i draw the line here. you're right, there are crooks in every profession. unfortunately those are the ones you always seem to hear of. you don't hear of the heroes. the people that really put themselves out for the benefit of others.
again, i'm really sorry for your pain right now, RT. i think ultimately you need to just STOP. and decide if this T works for you. as painful as it is, if you decide this T does not work for you, rather than try to taint the entire profession (and harrass her ... yes, you read that correctly), perhaps you can accept the mis-fit (difficult as it is..) cut your losses (as difficult as it is) and move on.
i know i sound harsh. but that's my honest opinion. and now, for some reason, i feel as though i am about to be crucified...
i don't mean to be insensitive, but RT i think you've taken this far enough. your T is quite obviously not a good fit. i'm sorry that it hurts like hell. and i know that these kinds of things can take awhile to heal. i understand that. but now you're starting to make it sound like everybody that is in the healing profession is sketchy at best. i truly am sorry that your T is not willing to bend her boundaries for you. but, frankly, you need to either accept that or move on. i'm sorry that both of those options can be hard to accept. like most parents, most therapists will not be "good enough". you have suffered enough hurt from her. you will not change her stand, and if you try to you will more than likely make her stand even more firm. either accept it and stay with her or accept it and move on. for your own sake.
come here and hurt all you want. that's what this place is for. i believe coming here is good (for the most part). but when you start bashing a profession that i believe is vastly in the majority of helping vs. hurting for the benefit of making your own stuff "heard" or whatever, i draw the line. and i draw the line here. you're right, there are crooks in every profession. unfortunately those are the ones you always seem to hear of. you don't hear of the heroes. the people that really put themselves out for the benefit of others.
again, i'm really sorry for your pain right now, RT. i think ultimately you need to just STOP. and decide if this T works for you. as painful as it is, if you decide this T does not work for you, rather than try to taint the entire profession (and harrass her ... yes, you read that correctly), perhaps you can accept the mis-fit (difficult as it is..) cut your losses (as difficult as it is) and move on.
i know i sound harsh. but that's my honest opinion. and now, for some reason, i feel as though i am about to be crucified...
quote:Imagine the dentist stopping half way through an extraction and saying, "That's all I know"?
I guess I would rather have them say that and refer me to someone who does know what they're doing than continue on and really harm me more.
That would be the ideal thing to do, not walk away and abandon the patient all together.
I think this raises a good point...if a therapist wants to give only a certain amount of time, is it okay? I am going through the very same issue as RT. I am trying to be understanding, respect his boundaries and it is hard as hell. I want something he is not willing to give, at this point in time. He said it would be revisited. I can't fault him for doing what he feels is therapeutically in my best interest. Does it hurt? Yes. Does it stir up things from my childhood? Oh my God, yes.
At some point we have to trust or move on to another Therapist. We have the power to do either. Both hurt like hell.
At some point we have to trust or move on to another Therapist. We have the power to do either. Both hurt like hell.
(((RT))) Sorry you're in so much pain. For what it's worth, I think your T does care and want what's best for you...it's just she doesn't have to offer what it is you need right now, and maybe isn't the right T for you, in terms of her approach and experience. That is hugely painful. It reminds me kind of how I felt last night when T was saying something that any slightly redeemable parent would rather I hate and be angry at them than hate and want to destroy myself constantly, so, somewhere deep down, I guess he believes or truly hopes my parents have that in them. And, of course, I feel they do, but it's hard for me to own my right to feel injured by them if it was simply their humanness and own wounds. Unless they are perfectly evil or wholly incompetent as parents, I feel like I don't get to be broken, broken-hearted, hurting, angry (well, that one is miles away). While I get, intellectually, that my parents would not want to have wounded me like this (which may or may not be a large percentage a narcissistic protection of their self-image, and a smaller percentage genuine concern for me), and probably did their best with what they had to offer, it can be really hard for me not to split and go black and white on them (either protect them as innocent or assume that they had no love for me...because I am unlovable).
Maybe your T is a good T for some people with different issues, but not for you. Just like a pediatrician wouldn't perform brain surgery. I am really sorry you are in so much pain. And I do think your T has made some mistakes with the way she approached shifting the boundary (though the shift itself was in her rights and I have had that happen to me and it is OUCH!). I guess what I'm saying is that your T doesn't have to be wholly incompetent for you to have a right to your wounding, to be angry and hurt and hopeless. You don't need to justify those feelings. They just are. Sometimes I wonder if I could just tell my my parents, "I know you probably did your best with what you felt you had to give...but it wasn't enough, and whether it was because of what you did, or did not do, or how sensitive I am, I was starved and crushed," if they could just accept it. I mean...I doubt they could, but I would hope it...not for sorrow or anything, but just, acceptance that those relationships, for me, were failures, and giving me permission to not have to try to carry that failure all on my own anymore. I wonder how it would be to say something like that to your T, that she couldn't give you what you needed and it hurt badly, whether or not that was the intention...maybe if you could tell her you just needed it heard, not explained away, it could at least give you permission to stop carrying it and trying to find somewhere to lay that burden down, to say, "I wasn't too much. What was available to me, however good the intentions, just wasn't enough for what I needed at the time." It's so hard for that to ever be OK, but I'd hate to see you having to choose between internalizing it as about you or needing it to be that your T is evil or incompetent for you to have the right to be deeply hurt by once again not having the support you need to process through all the original pain that's there.
(((CD))) No crucifixions here. I didn't read it as bashing the field quite so strongly as you did, but I'm very protective of the idea that there are some very good, competent (moreover wonderful human being) Ts out there, because I have one of them. He's human and makes mistakes like everyone, but I know he's always striving for my good and I think those sort of Ts deserve to be celebrated as much as it's important to put out the warning signs for Ts that are either not going to be a good fit for certain needs or else are actually incompetent. We probably hear more about those sort of Ts on here, because a lot of people come here with failed therapy experiences. I think it's good to point out that this is a profession that a lot of us have also been helped by a great deal.
Maybe your T is a good T for some people with different issues, but not for you. Just like a pediatrician wouldn't perform brain surgery. I am really sorry you are in so much pain. And I do think your T has made some mistakes with the way she approached shifting the boundary (though the shift itself was in her rights and I have had that happen to me and it is OUCH!). I guess what I'm saying is that your T doesn't have to be wholly incompetent for you to have a right to your wounding, to be angry and hurt and hopeless. You don't need to justify those feelings. They just are. Sometimes I wonder if I could just tell my my parents, "I know you probably did your best with what you felt you had to give...but it wasn't enough, and whether it was because of what you did, or did not do, or how sensitive I am, I was starved and crushed," if they could just accept it. I mean...I doubt they could, but I would hope it...not for sorrow or anything, but just, acceptance that those relationships, for me, were failures, and giving me permission to not have to try to carry that failure all on my own anymore. I wonder how it would be to say something like that to your T, that she couldn't give you what you needed and it hurt badly, whether or not that was the intention...maybe if you could tell her you just needed it heard, not explained away, it could at least give you permission to stop carrying it and trying to find somewhere to lay that burden down, to say, "I wasn't too much. What was available to me, however good the intentions, just wasn't enough for what I needed at the time." It's so hard for that to ever be OK, but I'd hate to see you having to choose between internalizing it as about you or needing it to be that your T is evil or incompetent for you to have the right to be deeply hurt by once again not having the support you need to process through all the original pain that's there.
(((CD))) No crucifixions here. I didn't read it as bashing the field quite so strongly as you did, but I'm very protective of the idea that there are some very good, competent (moreover wonderful human being) Ts out there, because I have one of them. He's human and makes mistakes like everyone, but I know he's always striving for my good and I think those sort of Ts deserve to be celebrated as much as it's important to put out the warning signs for Ts that are either not going to be a good fit for certain needs or else are actually incompetent. We probably hear more about those sort of Ts on here, because a lot of people come here with failed therapy experiences. I think it's good to point out that this is a profession that a lot of us have also been helped by a great deal.
And I was responding to and agreeing with RT's comment, "Frustrated - since I have been sharing my experience, I have heard so many stories of bad endings with Ts. It is truly shocking. One of the absolute worst things a T could do is abandon a client."
We were not generalizing our opinions on all T's, only the "bad apples" that exist in all professions. There are too many examples of T abandonment in here. One wonders how many others have suffered the same outcome 'out there' and who if anyone is monitoring not only the effects of abandonment on the patients, but what needs to be done to prevent it from reoccurring.
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We were not generalizing our opinions on all T's, only the "bad apples" that exist in all professions. There are too many examples of T abandonment in here. One wonders how many others have suffered the same outcome 'out there' and who if anyone is monitoring not only the effects of abandonment on the patients, but what needs to be done to prevent it from reoccurring.
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"Putting fudge sauce on cow shit does not make it a hot fudge sundae."
Scribes same and learns something new everyday.
I cant help but wonder what your T's thinking was to go from 80 to 45_50mins. I know I will be doing the same soon enough when my emotions settle and I slip back into 2nd gear.
Therapy is like a car travelling at different speeds.
I was always pre warned of such necessary changes with a suitable explanation from T though.
Anyway RT, wishing you some enlightenment in your session.
PS: I may never be tempted to eat another Hot Fudge Sunday ever again!
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Scribes same and learns something new everyday.
I cant help but wonder what your T's thinking was to go from 80 to 45_50mins. I know I will be doing the same soon enough when my emotions settle and I slip back into 2nd gear.
Therapy is like a car travelling at different speeds.
I was always pre warned of such necessary changes with a suitable explanation from T though.
Anyway RT, wishing you some enlightenment in your session.
PS: I may never be tempted to eat another Hot Fudge Sunday ever again!
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quote:60 views on this thread.
I heard from 3 (((people))) privately.
Not one comment here.
I expected. Hoped. Wished. Needed. More.
You wanted replies. Not everyone is going to agree with you. CD simply stated what she believed and felt. Basically you have said you wanted people to respond. I know reading all of this from you sort of makes my gut feel twisted. I get the strong feeling that if people don't completely agree with you that you will lash out at them. What I mean is that you will go into an angry, victim stance. I don't think CD crucified you at all. It even feels sort of scary to write this. I can imagine that this is a little bit of what your T has gone through with you. Your stance seems to be "respond to me, don't leave me but you better totally agree with me or I may leave and I will let you know my torment and anger over your response so that you can feel like a dirt bag for not agreeing with me completely."
Most therapists would not continue to see a client who has showed up at their home uninvited, leaving an angry letter and writing in stones in their yard "Help Me". This would freak most people out. I am not judging you however I don't see where you take responsibility for this behavior and how it may have affected your T. Therapists are human beings. There is no law that says that as a profession that they must tolerate abusive, scary, threatening behavior from their clients. Often they do tolerate it in an effort to help their clients get to a better place but it is not a law that they must tolerate abuse, threats, harassment etc.
When you ask a public forum for a response you're going to get a variety of reactions.
quote:Have you ever been abandoned by a T?
Frustrated,
I don't think there are many things more damaging and painful than being abandoned by a T. I have never had it happen (my first T retired before we were done but gave me time to process) but have had several very close friends go through it. Its terrible and a betrayal of the trust placed in them. I am sorry you have experienced that.
I also know first hand just how much pain can be evoked by running into the boundaries, I have shed my fair share of tears and spent more time than I like to remember in agony, so I do not want to minimize or invalidate the pain of anyone else.
So while I understand RT is in a lot of pain and hurting, what I fail to see is how her T has abandoned her? She has stayed with her through what some therapists would consider pretty problematic behavior, continued to see her, and is NOT sending her away. Yes, she is changing her boundaries and placing them in a place that RT is not happy with, but she may have good reasons, both to protect RT and to protect herself in order to continue with the work. She recognizes that RT may choose to go elsewhere and said she will continue to work with her until she finds another T. Where is the abandonment? I have seen people walk through their therapists door to find a list on the table and be told this is the last session with no warning and be told there are no further sessions available.
RT,
It is obvious you are in a great deal of pain and I am sorry for that.
May I ask a gentle question? Are you only looking for support? I read CD's comments, while being strongly worded, as a genuine effort to offer insight into your situation in order to help you through it, but it sounds like you experienced it as condemning and attacking which must be difficult considering how much pain you have expressed. And I must confess to seeing the pattern that L2F spoke of. So I am wondering if it would be helpful to just express that your need right now is only for supportive comments? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that what you want right now is non-judgmental, unconditional positive regard and to be heard, not so much to be told anything or offered another point of view. I think it might save some wear and tear on you, and others, if that were clear. I see your pain and confusion about how you are being treated both by your therapist and here and say this in the hope it will help you work things through.
You are truly cared for and valued here, even when people do not agree with you.
AG
AG,
You are absolutely right. My situation is completely different than RT's. I was abruptly abandoned, RT on the other hand still has the option of seeing her T. I guess I misunderstood and was trying to compare two different situation. My mistake...
You are absolutely right. My situation is completely different than RT's. I was abruptly abandoned, RT on the other hand still has the option of seeing her T. I guess I misunderstood and was trying to compare two different situation. My mistake...
(((Frustrated))) you didn't do anything wrong at all. You were reaching out in empathy to someone else in pain. I am sorry if I seemed too critical.
"You are truly cared for and valued here, even when people do not agree with you."
This goes for you too Closed Doors. Where art thou?
This goes for you too Closed Doors. Where art thou?
AG,
You were not critical at all.
You were not critical at all.
TW*** Mention of suicide
RT,
I was not in any way saying that you were not entitled to your pain about what is going on. I am sorry if what I said was coming across that way. Dealing with boundaries in therapy, especially when we disagree with them, and how they are being handled is incredibly painful. The fact that you are in so much pain that killing yourself is sounding like a good option speaks volumes.
I am not feeling frustrated about you staying with or leaving your therapist. That is totally your decision and one which you are in a much better position to make than anyone else. For me, the concern is that you often express a lot of criticism of your therapist but until confronted not about anything you are contributing to the situation. My concern is that if you can only see what she is doing, that things will not change or get better for you, and its difficult to see you in so much pain. But from what you said in your last post, you are hanging on to both of those and I am sorry I did not see that.
As far as responding, I truly feel that every time I do I only increase your pain, and your sense of abandonment and solitude and I am truly sorry for that. I will refrain in the future so as to not cause you further pain.
Thank you for coming back and replying despite how you were feeling, it takes a lot of courage. I truly hope you find some relief soon.
AG
RT,
I was not in any way saying that you were not entitled to your pain about what is going on. I am sorry if what I said was coming across that way. Dealing with boundaries in therapy, especially when we disagree with them, and how they are being handled is incredibly painful. The fact that you are in so much pain that killing yourself is sounding like a good option speaks volumes.
I am not feeling frustrated about you staying with or leaving your therapist. That is totally your decision and one which you are in a much better position to make than anyone else. For me, the concern is that you often express a lot of criticism of your therapist but until confronted not about anything you are contributing to the situation. My concern is that if you can only see what she is doing, that things will not change or get better for you, and its difficult to see you in so much pain. But from what you said in your last post, you are hanging on to both of those and I am sorry I did not see that.
As far as responding, I truly feel that every time I do I only increase your pain, and your sense of abandonment and solitude and I am truly sorry for that. I will refrain in the future so as to not cause you further pain.
Thank you for coming back and replying despite how you were feeling, it takes a lot of courage. I truly hope you find some relief soon.
AG
I did not know that you apologized to your T for showing up at her home. That is an important piece of information. I am glad that you were able to do that.
My reference to abuse, harassment etc was to the discussion of Ts abandoning their clients. I was stating in short hand that a T's obligations are not unconditional. That Ts in general are not obliged to endure endless abuse or harassment or whatever in order to help a client. In other words there are times when a T has every right to terminate.
I think yes that you are a challenge. I don't judge this because I am a similar challenge to my T. In the past I was a holy terror to any T I saw. I have come a long way. I admit that I may have projected some of my own stuff onto you RT. That is certainly a possibility.
I too have a long history of severe abuse. My father was a attorney and later a judge and let me tell you he had a real "gift" for words. Not only was he physically violent but he was verbally adept at eviscerating people with a couple of sentences and against a child he was formidable. Not only was my father abusive but my mother was as well. They often worked in unison and this cause great harm to their many children. And because of this I understand how words can hurt to the core.
Anyway, I don't know why I am saying this so much as to show that I do get some of this. I get how these intense feelings and wounds come out in therapy. Right now as we speak I am looking at how I push my T away. I am looking at how I use my old coping skills to hurt the people around me.
I don't think there is much I can say to you right now RT that is going to repair anything between us. I wish there was but I haven't a clue as to what that would be. I don't think you are a bad person or that you mean to scare your T or anything like that. I do think that you make great efforts to avoid the intense pain that is underneath your defenses and in turn this prolongs your suffering. I know all too well that path.
I guess like AG I should step out of this and leave it be. You are right RT I don't know the full situation. I wish you the best in whatever you do with your therapist.
My reference to abuse, harassment etc was to the discussion of Ts abandoning their clients. I was stating in short hand that a T's obligations are not unconditional. That Ts in general are not obliged to endure endless abuse or harassment or whatever in order to help a client. In other words there are times when a T has every right to terminate.
I think yes that you are a challenge. I don't judge this because I am a similar challenge to my T. In the past I was a holy terror to any T I saw. I have come a long way. I admit that I may have projected some of my own stuff onto you RT. That is certainly a possibility.
I too have a long history of severe abuse. My father was a attorney and later a judge and let me tell you he had a real "gift" for words. Not only was he physically violent but he was verbally adept at eviscerating people with a couple of sentences and against a child he was formidable. Not only was my father abusive but my mother was as well. They often worked in unison and this cause great harm to their many children. And because of this I understand how words can hurt to the core.
Anyway, I don't know why I am saying this so much as to show that I do get some of this. I get how these intense feelings and wounds come out in therapy. Right now as we speak I am looking at how I push my T away. I am looking at how I use my old coping skills to hurt the people around me.
I don't think there is much I can say to you right now RT that is going to repair anything between us. I wish there was but I haven't a clue as to what that would be. I don't think you are a bad person or that you mean to scare your T or anything like that. I do think that you make great efforts to avoid the intense pain that is underneath your defenses and in turn this prolongs your suffering. I know all too well that path.
I guess like AG I should step out of this and leave it be. You are right RT I don't know the full situation. I wish you the best in whatever you do with your therapist.
RT, I guess what really matters is our therapy, and not what goes on in this cyber world of miss communication, stuff ups, and the search for someone that gives a damn.
It is obvious to me that you are in very capable hands with your therapist, and that your integrity will see you through until the end.
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It is obvious to me that you are in very capable hands with your therapist, and that your integrity will see you through until the end.
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(((RT)))
I am glad you did not see me as invalidating your pain. And the comment about frustration was addressing what you said about some members being frustrated you had not left, I had assumed I was included in that, my mistake.
Sorry bad sentence construction. What I meant to say was that it is my perception that if someone directly asks, then you talk about your "stuff" but you do not often mention it when just posting about your T. But that may be because you are only attempting to express your feelings. But it can sometimes give me the impression that you only see your therapist as completely wrong and somehow abusive and that you are in no way contributing to the situation. I do not say that to accuse you of anything or condemn your behavior. I know in my own healing it has been crucial that I examine and understand my own behavior. This becomes especially difficult where my T is concerned because there is so much that is symbolic in the relationship and so many old unprocessed feelings get evoked. How I reacted to his boundaries usually said a lot more about me than it did about him. And again, I was saying this to explain why I had the impression I did, it does not necessarily mean that is what you are doing.
"hanging on to both of those" was referring to the fact that you did express your sense of being aware both of your Ts behavior and yours and your feelings and taking both into consideration.
quote:"confronted not about anything" - I'm sorry, I don't understand and would appreciate if you'd elaborate.
Sorry bad sentence construction. What I meant to say was that it is my perception that if someone directly asks, then you talk about your "stuff" but you do not often mention it when just posting about your T. But that may be because you are only attempting to express your feelings. But it can sometimes give me the impression that you only see your therapist as completely wrong and somehow abusive and that you are in no way contributing to the situation. I do not say that to accuse you of anything or condemn your behavior. I know in my own healing it has been crucial that I examine and understand my own behavior. This becomes especially difficult where my T is concerned because there is so much that is symbolic in the relationship and so many old unprocessed feelings get evoked. How I reacted to his boundaries usually said a lot more about me than it did about him. And again, I was saying this to explain why I had the impression I did, it does not necessarily mean that is what you are doing.
"hanging on to both of those" was referring to the fact that you did express your sense of being aware both of your Ts behavior and yours and your feelings and taking both into consideration.
My T has said to me a couple times - when it comes to limitations and boundaries set in relationships (close ones)... Is that sometimes it is like telling a child who wants a story before bed (but you can't read them one) you can say "but I can lay beside you for a bit". That's how we discussed some abrupt changes with T2 and the neglect I experienced in childhood. It seems similar to what your T is doing... And it's good to consider seeing her or not and it's especially hard when both choices hurt and or suck.
I specifically took a while replying to this thread because of the message about not replying, when... I'd replied and offered sympathy in another thread before the back story. We all want and need compassion. Sometimes compassion isn't packed in a hug. Just like if a T challenges a defense and pisses you off (welcome to every session I have right now... Grrr) it's still done with loving well meaning.
I relate so profoundly to the feeling of 'divorce'.
I specifically took a while replying to this thread because of the message about not replying, when... I'd replied and offered sympathy in another thread before the back story. We all want and need compassion. Sometimes compassion isn't packed in a hug. Just like if a T challenges a defense and pisses you off (welcome to every session I have right now... Grrr) it's still done with loving well meaning.
I relate so profoundly to the feeling of 'divorce'.
Thank you RT. I so appreciate your response. Yes this is a journey that is not unfamiliar with me. I like you RT. I think you are a strong person. The truth is I see a T right now that I am considering leaving for a few reasons and I too feel awful because I put so much energy into it and to leave her feels like such a waste. She is not a mellow person and I need mellow people because I am not mellow either. I try to see it that she triggers me and that I can take the challenge and work from there.
Anyway RT you're a good egg and no matter what I am sorry for the pain you have been in lately with your T. She seems inexperienced or confused or something and I know how much that hurts when you're trying so hard to find help.
Anyway RT you're a good egg and no matter what I am sorry for the pain you have been in lately with your T. She seems inexperienced or confused or something and I know how much that hurts when you're trying so hard to find help.
I’m sorry my post was so harsh. I get frustrated and it all gushes out and isn’t necessarily well thought out. RT, I truly am sorry if I added to your pain. take it for what it’s worth.
I’m embarrassed that I can’t totally explain what that was all about. I was careless and insensitive (I seem to be doing that a lot lately), and I think a lot of what I said was projected onto you from stuff I’m dealing with. I could have been kinder.
When you posted about being unhappy with the views and no response on the OF, it made me angry. you did get three pm’s, which is a lot more than some people get. I happen to think you were pretty blessed to get those. Way more personal, I think, than the OF.
I don’t mean to drag L2F back into this, but
And
Nor do I mean to drag AG back into this but
That is what I was trying to get at, but did a rather shitty job of it. thanks, L2F and AG for both picking up on what I was trying to say and interpreting it. I do feel frustrated with your situation and am just trying to show you what I see in hopes that you can look at it and consider it in your jouney of examining your thoughts and emotions and behaviors.
RT, again I’m sorry the manner in which I communicated was not sensitive at all. I’ll try to be more humane and gentle in the future. i wish you nothing but the best during this difficult time.
I’m embarrassed that I can’t totally explain what that was all about. I was careless and insensitive (I seem to be doing that a lot lately), and I think a lot of what I said was projected onto you from stuff I’m dealing with. I could have been kinder.
When you posted about being unhappy with the views and no response on the OF, it made me angry. you did get three pm’s, which is a lot more than some people get. I happen to think you were pretty blessed to get those. Way more personal, I think, than the OF.
I don’t mean to drag L2F back into this, but
quote:I know reading all of this from you sort of makes my gut feel twisted. I get the strong feeling that if people don't completely agree with you that you will lash out at them. What I mean is that you will go into an angry, victim stance. I don't think CD crucified you at all. It even feels sort of scary to write this. I can imagine that this is a little bit of what your T has gone through with you. Your stance seems to be "respond to me, don't leave me but you better totally agree with me or I may leave and I will let you know my torment and anger over your response so that you can feel like a dirt bag for not agreeing with me completely."
And
quote:I am not judging you however I don't see where you take responsibility for this behavior and how it may have affected your T. Therapists are human beings. There is no law that says that as a profession that they must tolerate abusive, scary, threatening behavior from their clients.
Nor do I mean to drag AG back into this but
quote:And I must confess to seeing the pattern that L2F spoke of.
That is what I was trying to get at, but did a rather shitty job of it. thanks, L2F and AG for both picking up on what I was trying to say and interpreting it. I do feel frustrated with your situation and am just trying to show you what I see in hopes that you can look at it and consider it in your jouney of examining your thoughts and emotions and behaviors.
RT, again I’m sorry the manner in which I communicated was not sensitive at all. I’ll try to be more humane and gentle in the future. i wish you nothing but the best during this difficult time.
Closed Doors