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Okay, this is all like throwin' down the gauntlet in here and all, and but I thought I'd ask a question about this whole purpose-of-therapist/therapy thing.

So, some folks say that our therapy is all about some sort of recapitulative experience, capturing a secure attachment we haven't known 'cause our parents were ....our parents, letting us see patterns that we've fallen into that we don't like 'cause of early learned habits, and whatnot.

Are there other possible reasonable answers to "what is therapy for?" Does it have to be about attachment, or some parent thing? Surely we're all past that.

I guess at base I'm railing against the idea that I'm the way I am now - even if I'm not happy or in trouble - because of something that my parents didn't do that I never even knew I missed.

And thousands of generations before me seem to have gotten by without the help of this recently-generated profession.

Surely I don't _really_ need to go through all the bother, worry, time, expense of finding one that 'fits' me, that isn't doing truly crazy things in private practice, that's ethical, that respects boundaries, creates them and holds them, helps me be an agent in my own creation... it's a bit ridiculous. I haven't put this much effort into _dating_. And now I'm trying to find a 'match' for a health professional??

It's just that sometimes it's like I'm an alient looking down in on what's going on, and the process seems so... (alien) um, ridiculous. I have friends, I'm good at keeping them, I can hold down a job... surely I don't need this.

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I do apologize for this discussion. It's clear that I've got a solid little core of arrogance at heart, 'cause when I start to think that maybe I'm doin' it wrong, instead of starting to blame myself and think my T doesn't like me or is going to get rid of me (true! and done), I lash out at the entire profession and insinuate that it's bunk.

No, no problems here, carry on... *whistles innocently*
Wynne,

You know this is fabulous and I love it. It expresses so many thoughts I have about the process.

"And thousands of generations before me seem to have gotten by without the help of this recently-generated profession." I try to remember that we are getting by too. We actually don't know how happy these people were. Plus they had to spend all their time trying to get food and shelter and survive they didn't have time to get screwed up by their families or live long enough to notice.

Good luck on the therapist search.
We read an article at school about the history of art therapy, some claim it goes back to ancient shamans! They were healers in ancient tribes, they used art, they used magic, they used rituals and all they could to heal people. That's what therapy is about. That's where it stems from, the ancient tradition of healing people! Only now we know it's not all done by 'magic' or by chanting (though I'm sure that can't hurt at times) We also know that a lot of mental illness have a chemical or biological reason behind them. The history of the psychological traditions is fascinating, and something I'd personally like to learn more about.

Antoni
Wynne,
Sorry for not responding sooner, I just gonzo missed that this thread even existed. Smiler

It's not an arrogant question at all, I think it's a question that anyone who has ever gone to therapy has wrestled with. You invest a lot of time, energy, money, and effort into therapy. You SHOULD see value in anything that you plan to put that much into.

And I loved the Wynne Emergency broadcast system. Big Grin

So, what's the point of therapy? I find this question especially timely because the last few weeks have been a major breakthrough for me (more on that in another thread sometime Smiler) and right now I am feeling like everything I've been through, the tears, the agony, the hard work, and wading through the cesspool of my past is all worth it to be where I now am.

First, I want to agree with Hummingbird about people in the past. They're were a lot of things besides therapy they did without: antibiotics, hygiene, nutrition, vaccines, dental care, machinery, industry etc etc. And that's why in the middle ages if you lived to the age of 40 you were considered elderly. Therapy is like so much else of modern medicine. As we continue to learn more about how the human being functions the better care we can take care of ourselves. And we are also, especially in Western culture, living in an unprecedented time of prosperity and peace. We have the time and resources to worry about how we're feeling and improve how we relate and to apply our new knowledge to improve our quality of life.

My next point is one I share from my personal experience but don't believe that it necessarily applies in a universal sense. This is probably true for some but not for all. If you had met me when I started going to therapy, or even during a lot of the years I was doing therapy, I had what looked like a very successful life. I was well educated, employed as a professional making a good living, married with two children, a nice home and from all outward signs a life that looked pretty enviable. The problem was that there were problems at the core of how I lived. I often felt like my outward bahavior was a facade. That I was very good at behaving in a such a manner as to convince people that I was a wonderful person, but it didn't match my core experience, but I didn't let anyone in far enough to figure that out. So I often felt alone and isolated. Which became even more confusing because I wondered what my problem was that I had so much but felt so miserable. I really thought I was just an ungrateful wretch for a long time. Therapy for me has been a long journey to being authentic. Of learning to be honest about what's on the inside and deal with those feelings so that I'm not just presenting the person I think people should see but who I really am.

I also know for me therapy was about breaking the chain of abuse. When my kids were 4 and 2 I started to have what I considered serious anger problems towards my kids. My worst nightmare was becoming true, I was going to start hitting my kids and become my father. I fled into therapy determined to do anything I could to not become him. Funny thing is, I thought it was inevitable but two therapists have proved me wrong. So I have done better than my parents did (I had a lot more to work with than they did) and my children will do better than I did. Therapy has been another way of making sure that the next generations do better than the ones before them. And that I did not have to live with becoming something I would hate.

I was, almost without being conscious of it, seriously cut off from my emotions because I had no skills or resources for dealing with them. But the problem is emotions don't go away when we ignore them so a lot of our time and energy (unconsciously) becomes bound up in avoiding them. This tends to lock us into very rigid behavior patterns because above all we must avoid actions that might cause the emotions we're trying to avoid. Which means trying new things or have a range of reactions to choose from gets shut down, and our options become limited. I lived in a small dark cell instead of being in the open air with space and light and choices. Our emotions also serve as a rich guide which provides information about how we are living, what we are passionate about, even what we enjoy and being cut off from them deprives us of what we need to live a fuller, freer life. (I really don't feel like I'm expressing this well, probably because I am still learning it.)

Therapy is a way to live a self-examined life. To not settle for just "getting by." To live our life in such a way that we can reach the full potential of our strengths and gifts.

The most powerful argument I know for therapy is the people who engage in it. They are willing to squarely face who they are, and how they do things and try to make it better. I find that deeply admirable.

And you mentioned about it being all your parents fault? But that's the whole point, it's not. Your patterns of behavior are set up, your unconscious tendencies are created in the crucible of your childhood, but you're an adult now and responsible for how you live and the choices you make. Your upbringing is not your destiny set in stone, you can change it. You can examine how you live and decide to change it in order to overcome your past and live in a more authentic way. But the only way to know ourselves, to see our unconscious operate in our behavior is in relationship. Human beings can not know themselves in isolation. So we go to therapy so that our parents are NOT the last word of how we live our lives.

Thank you for asking the question, I don't think I've thought about this in such a thorough way for a long time. Smiler

AG
quote:
I often felt like my outward bahavior was a facade. That I was very good at behaving in a such a manner as to convince people that I was a wonderful person, but it didn't match my core experience, but I didn't let anyone in far enough to figure that out. So I often felt alone and isolated. Which became even more confusing because I wondered what my problem was that I had so much but felt so miserable.

Bingo!
AG - You express this so well. What I really like about your posts, besides all the fantastic information, is that you really make me think. That is what therapy has done for me. Made me think about what is going on in my life, why, and how I can change it. Sometimes I think so much that my brain hurts. But, I can also see the improvements it has made in my life.

There have been many days when I wonder why I am going to therapy. Sometimes it's just too hard. My T then reminds me how brave and courageous I am to be involved in this self study and that many people give up when it gets hard (and sometimes frightening).

I know I have a long way to go to get to the point of truly understanding all this, but your posts help me to realize that this is the best possible road for me to take right now. It is the road to healing.

PL
quote:
I was, almost without being conscious of it , seriously cut off from my emotions because I had no skills or resources for dealing with them. But the problem is emotions don't go away when we ignore them so a lot of our time and energy (unconsciously) becomes bound up in avoiding them. This tends to lock us into very rigid behavior patterns because above all we must avoid actions that might cause the emotions we're trying to avoid. Which means trying new things or have a range of reactions to choose from gets shut down, and our options become limited. I lived in a small dark cell instead of being in the open air with space and light and choices.


This. Except without the "almost." And with a bit more of being scared of going outside (really, literally, too). Can I also add that people outside are _frickin' __insane____ during the holidays?
quote:
Can I also add that people outside are _frickin' __insane____ during the holidays?


You can say that again. Big Grin

I know it can feel really impossible but you really can work through it and learn to feel your emotions and it really does open up so much. I've been trying to post on what it's been like for me lately and am at a loss as to how to describe it. I am experiencing an ongoing sense of well-being, and joy, and like there are so many things I want to do. And I feel like I could actually do them if I wanted to. I am feeling so much more, but it doesn't feel threatening anymore. It actually feels like my life is the richer for it. I believe for the first time in my life that I'm actually ok. But in a clear way, I am aware of my strenghts and can claim them in a way I never could before, but I am also much more aware of my weaknesses and flaws so that I can work on them. It used to be too threatening to my sense of self to be aware of my flaws. It was so exhausting always having to act like I wasn't doing anything wrong. And I have undergone an internal shift with my relationship with my T. I know that it's real, I know I am secure with him in a way I didn't know before. I have stopped fearing being sent away or being left. For the first time in my life. So much has changed but yet I feel more like myself than I ever have. I actually went 10 days between appts without a phone call or email to my T, one of the first times that's happened. And I don't see him again until the 30th and that's ok. I mean, I miss him, but it doesn't feel like I'm hanging on by my fingernails, because I am so absolutely sure that he is there, our relationship continues whether I'm with him or not, and if I called, he would answer. I've finally gotten comfortable with calling him which has made it pretty unnecessary to do so. Enjoy the irony. I feel good most of the time, and when I don't, I still know that its going to be ok. I even had something go wrong at work that started me into my "how worthless I am" spiral and I was able to catch it in a matter of minutes and recognize it just wasn't true, I had made a mistake. Later I found out that it has been no big deal for anyone. Six months ago it would have been a call to my T. And I know that with that secure base, I can go wherever I want to and try whatever I want to. The sense of freedom is breathtaking.

OK, maybe I can describe it. Big Grin Sorry, Wynne, I didn't mean to hijack the topic, that's been bubbling around since Friday and just decided to emerge. But what I'm really trying to say is that with the right therapist, therapy really works and there is another side which when you get there makes it all more than worth it. Thanks for letting me say all this.

AG
quote:
The sense of freedom is breathtaking.


My T uses the word freedom and freeing a lot because I've restricted my life to such a small space and anything outside is scary and painful. Your story is inspiring AG, especially since I know how hard you have worked to get to where you are (and I haven't even known you that long!) You have given me a glimpse of what I am working so hard for and believe me I need to be reminded often that it is worth it, that I am worth it. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by woodensoul:
I definitely need therapy or some sort of help. My problems have crippled me.


Unfortunately, this is how I feel, too.

Wynne,

I think your skepticism is healthy. It's what my T would call a 'complaint.' After all, you are the consumer here, and you should expect something for your time and money.

For me, I started seeing a therapist because I had crippling anxiety attacks and wanted (want) to get to the bottom of them once and for all. Believe me, I did NOT start therapy out of some deep and abiding desire to discover myself. Hell no. I figured I'd see this dude once a week for a couple of months and my anxiety problems would be history. Yeah, I was a bit off on that one.

As for the it's-all-the-parents'-fault thing, I don't think it's a matter of assigning blame. However, at least for me, it's important to look at these people in order to figure out who and why I am, and in the course of doing this, I am discovering some really startling things, and most of them ain't good. It's hard to know yourself without knowing who you came from. At least for me. It's more about gathering the facts.

There are times when I think that the whole thing is BS and I become furious that after after 9 months of seeing my T mulitple_times_a_week I still live with this wretched fog of fear much of the time. But I know I have a good T, and I know I have a boatload of crap to work through, so I'm sticking with it for now.

Bottom line: it's healthy to question the role of therapy for you, and god knows it's HARD to find the right doc, so don't beat yourself up for ranting a little on the value of this whole, weird thing.

Russ
Smiler I started this thread quite a while back, and I think I've gotten to a point where I'm pretty sure why I'm going to therapy and what I hope to get out of it.

There are some things that've gone on that I've never talked about. I'd like to talk about them.

There are some things that I have talked about to some folks, but that I don't know how to deal with. I'd like to deal with them.

There are a few things about myself that I really, really don't understand. I'd like to understand them.

That is, in a nutshell, pretty much it.
I truly wonder if therapy is just making me worse off. I was happy, and go lucky for the longest time. Since I have started this brain disection I have tried committing suicide, and recently decided I wanted to start cutting myself. Not all has been bad though, as I have felt amazing calmness and peace in my mind.

Do I need therapy, not sure. I do however love talking to my T. She is unconditional with me,and it does help me to release.


Kats
quote:
I truly wonder if therapy is just making me worse off. I was happy, and go lucky for the longest time. Since I have started this brain disection I have tried committing suicide, and recently decided I wanted to start cutting myself. Not all has been bad though, as I have felt amazing calmness and peace in my mind.



If you haven't already I think it would be good to talk about this with your T ASAP
I think therapy often makes things worse for a little while - the stuff kind of turmoil of the mind that we're always talking about.

I hope you've been able to talk to your T about the stuff you post here, and I'm glad you're still going. I know talking about quitting and actually quitting are different. It's just a hard, uphill battle most of the time, I think.

I hope you're willing to talk, and I'm happy to hear from you. Smiler Take care of yourself 'till you post again, Kats!

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