I forgot...I really don't even know what kind of therapy we are doing...you all seem to know that too... Ican tell you that he doesn't spend a whole lot of time letting me get caught up in the past....He used to say.....well, let's no worry so much about the why, lets figure out what you can do now.....I would feel silly to say...now, after almost 2 years...hey, by the way...what kind of therapy is this?

Hals, maybe it would make you feel a little better if I also told you that I don't know what kind of therapy I'm in. I suspect that my T draws on a lot of different approaches. None of them anywhere along the lines of CBT, though. I'm also too scared to ask, but maybe I can one day.

Now, I hope I'm not being hypocritical, as I have to tell myself not to do this, but all of us on this board have such unique experiences, and we've all come to learn things about therapy in so many different ways. To quote your T, you should trust yourself. How do you, separate from whatever you've read on the forums, feel about your T's boundaries or wherever and however you imagine them to be? How much do you feel you can push your T until you find a boundary? I know that knowledge can be power, but I seem to think that trying to find an answer to something about therapy prior to actually discovering it yourself through uncovering of your personal truths is far less beneficial. As much as I want to know more about what's going on with me in therapy, if there's a name for what I'm experiencing, if I fit certain symptoms, whatever, I can't deny that it's always more satisfying and helpful when I figure these things out for myself.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now...and I'll try to heed some of my own advice. It's really hard, I know...I hope none of that sounded too bossy. I often find that I'm just as lost as the next person.

Hey Hals,
I learned practically everything I know about therapy from books. I would have never known what “attachment” or “transference” is if not for this forum and books. I’ve talked about attachment and transference to my T, but it’s mainly just me talking about it and he doesn’t really add much.

I know what type of therapy I'm in (client centered object relations) only because it says on my T’s website. He gives a pretty good definition on the types of therapy he uses for children, adolescents, and adults. We’ve never (that I can remember) talked about the type of therapy in person though.

As for boundaries, I’ve learned my T’s boundaries from pushing them- a lot. I don’t remember ever feeling worried that I might cross a boundary, and my T makes it clear when I’ve hit a wall. Recently, he did tell me a few of his boundaries and standards that he holds for his practice when I got really mad about seeing other clients when I leave. Other than that, I’ve just learned the boundaries by experiencing them.

To ask what type of therapy you’re in you could try bringing up a more general topic like “I was reading about therapy on line and I was surprised how many different types there are- I never really thought about it before” or something like that. I can see how that could be awkward- but your T probably would think that much of it- just that you haven’t thought about it before.

-Mac

Deep Fried....

quote:

Oh Hals! I can completely relate on this note, I have NO CLUE what kind of therapy I'm in either. I'd be too scared to ask my T now, she seems to have what I assume is her own style. It's definitely not CBT or DBT because those involve a lot of homework. I trust she knows what she's doing but yea... I have no idea what team she's playing on.

Yep, no homework here...he gave me homework very early on...like a good student, I went home and did it and he never mentioned it again! Some teacher

[/QUOTE] Then when we talked in session later she was just telling me what great progress it was and no need to apologize she has good boundaries she said. I guess that just means she's okay with transference stuff, at least the angry kind! [/QUOTE]

He's said pretty much this same thing...when I get freaked out about boundaries, he tells me to sit back and really think about it and trust myself.....uugghh...

quote:

Your T sounds interesting.

He definately is!

quote:

Now, I hope I'm not being hypocritical, as I have to tell myself not to do this, but all of us on this board have such unique experiences, and we've all come to learn things about therapy in so many different ways. To quote your T, you should trust yourself. How do you, separate from whatever you've read on the forums, feel about your T's boundaries or wherever and however you imagine them to be? How much do you feel you can push your T until you find a boundary? I know that knowledge can be power, but I seem to think that trying to find an answer to something about therapy prior to actually discovering it yourself through uncovering of your personal truths is far less beneficial. As much as I want to know more about what's going on with me in therapy, if there's a name for what I'm experiencing, if I fit certain symptoms, whatever, I can't deny that it's always more satisfying and helpful when I figure these things out for myself.

Kashely ...thank you very much for your response...as I read this I realized that maybe I am just wondering if I fit the "mold"...is anything I am doing or saying or experiencing "normal"! That is when I have to say...who cares if it is or it isn't...it's working for me and believe that is enough!

Maclove....So you are a boundary pusher too? Nice to meet ya I may just have to ask the question and I suppose I'll just say I'm curious....Afterall, that is one of the things I am working on is having the courage to ask and not make assumptions. Yikes...now there is a concept.

Hals

I don't feel very clued up on it all at all. I just know that my Therapy appointments are crucial to me, that I think of my T nearly all the time, (which I suspect is fairly normal when it is very intense) that I find it the hardest thing I have ever done, that I frequently fear these days that she is going to terminate Me (kindly of course with a " I am doing this in your best interests as I think you need a more specialised trauma therapist") and I live sick with fear that I will lose her and i often don't know WHO I am railing at then i shout at her, as it is more anger than whatever little thing she has said and i feel so lost and vulnerable and wish I had more control over this whole process and I think she is person centred and I have no idea about if or how many emails I can send as we have just had a whole muddle about that and not sorted it yet and my god, I feel WAY OUT OF MY DEPTH IN ALL THIS and your general feeling of not knowing WHAT is going on, seems NORMAL LOL
For me, therapy - good therapy, is about a loving kind accepting and insightful person really caring about me and what I have been through and doing whatever it takes, (holding, caring, challening, listening) to help me get myself to a better place.
and not mess me up further in the process
TO make it MORE confusing my T is not actually a T she is a counsellor. And apparently there is a big difference. which might be why at the moment she feels out of her depth.

Hals (and others) I’m with you all on this - in all the years that I’ve been doing therapy with so many different therapists, I didn’t have a clue what it was all about, I’d never even heard the term ‘boundaries’ until the last few months. Everything I know about what is involved in therapy I’ve learned mostly from here and from reading books about it.

Even now that I have a new T whose approach is clear (psychodynamic psychoanalytic) he hasn’t explained anything at all about what’s involved. I’m the one who has brought in the jargon - boundaries, transference etc. It’s been one of my biggest moans about therapists, that they never EXPLAIN the process itself, they seem to think that it’s perfectly ok for a client to just turn up and stumble blindly along trying to work out what’s supposed to be happening. For me that’s always an issue because I can talk forever but unless I know what I’m talking FOR, the stuff I rabbit on about just goes round and round in circles.

For instance it wasn’t until joining this forum that I learnt one of the most important things to do in therapy is tell T whenever something T does or says upsets or angers me. Before that I used to think it was bad and wrong of me and that to even think of criticizing T or seeing him/her as less that professionally perfect was something wrong with me, was what I had to change in myself. Result, it stayed hidden away in me and only added to making me feel there was something so wrong with me that therapy couldn’t help me.

I also had a sense that what I needed from a T was kindness, caring, warmth, genuine sympathetic understanding. Wasted an awful lot of years chasing that idea, never finding anyone whom I felt was really emotionally there for me. I’ve since come to see that actually what I was looking for was some kind of omnipotent mind reading good parent, and that a) I wasn’t going to find them and b) that warm caring approach is actually wrong for me. It’s only through having learned so much about therapy itself and the different approaches, that I’ve finally (I hope!) stumbled on a T whom I think can actually help me. And he’s a cold detached sort of bloke, no smiles warmth or open caring there!

Having said that, that’s just me. Maybe not knowing what is involved in therapy is actually more useful to people - there can come a point where you end up knowing too much and that can actually hinder the process as Kashley so clearly puts it - better to find things out for yourself than to anticipate it intellectually.

Bottom line is that if the therapy is working then there’s no need to know anymore about it is there? It’s when it doesn’t work that maybe it’s useful to get to know more about what ‘ought’ to be going on. That’s how it was for me anyway.

LL

quote:

Then I think...Gosh...what is "normal"? I just wish I had the guts to ask him..so, what do you think of all this transference stuff? or do you think I have issues with attachment,

Hi Hals,
I was laughing through your entire first post. I could have written it myself. I have and had many of the same questions as you.
I did, however, ask him what kind of therapy we were doing after having a good laugh about something and his reply was -"I don't know". Normally his therapy is Rogerian- in my opinion- one of the best. ( but really- it's all I know)
Our most recent discussions have been about boundries- in and out of therapy, and I am learning lots.
The transference thing----I don't broach that subject, he has though. He talks and I don't say a word.
I may bring up the attachment thing this Wednesday, as I have a tiny bit of a better understanding about this- new insights.

I too am thinking towards the end of therapy after almost 2 years- but we will see. I would miss him terribly, but that is the wrong reason to stay. Maybe I will see him 1x a month.

We rarely talk about our relationship, but sometimes he brings it up, and I pretend like I don't hear him- then talk about something else. Since it is "Client Centered Therapy" he lets me get away with it. (but sometimes I am not aware that I am doing it)

Concerning normal- my t is a little weird about that. He says "What is normal?" It is different for everyone- there is no normal according to him.

Since I am on a bold streak, I may innitiate a discussion about our relationship, we'll see. I see him on Wednesday.

Ah well.... nice chatting.
Mayo

Lamplighter...I get very frustrated by my T just sitting there sometimes with a smile on his face.....letting me muddle around and tread water! I guess I have to trust that he does that on purpose and it's a good thing...I usually figure it out after a while, but sometimes I just think it would be easier for him to help me out a little bit I know what you are saying about knowing too much and quite honestly...I sometimes wonder if what I"ve learned here has muddied the therapy waters for me!

Mayo...glad I could help in the laugh department! Yea...what is normal..isn't that the million dollar question.

My last session went horribly south with T. Worst probably ever and don't even want to get into specifics...but I have much to think about.

Hals...

Hi Hals,

I have to tell you that I relate completely to what you posted. I am at the same point but I've been seeing my T for 3 years, if it makes you feel any better .... Your T sounds identical to mine .... Mine says he practices CBT but I don't get any homework and I think he places a lot more emphasis on emotions than CBT does but I can't be sure ....

I'm far from figuring it all out but from everything I read on the internet that it's all about feeling safe enough to reveal oneself ... but I guess we have to know who is safe and who is not ... and most of us don't have a good handle on that yet ....

I also very reluctantly brought up transference issues with my T and didn't get the warm reaction that I expected and hoped for .... So I don't know what happened when you did because you didn't go into it .... but I just wanted to let you know that I am guessing I had a similar experience ..... His reaction in fact made me very hesitant to bring it up a second time ... it took me a year and half .. and it was only after reading this sight and reading what everyone else says that I was able to gather up the courage to broach the subject again ... I still didn't get the response I was hoping for nor did I feel cared for anymore than I did the day before ....

When I bring up the transference issues ... his response has been twice, well of course, I'm caring because I am a caring kind of guy, so i don't know what you're talking about ... I don't know why you aren't feeling it ... it's your insecurities ..... kind of almost like, what do you want from me? What do I want from him? I want to feel cared about ... but how???? How????? It's a strange relationship ... the boundaries are different from other relationships and I suppose for that matter, every relationship has different boudaries ... and even my relationship with my husband has boundaries .... so I guess I have to figure out where these boundaries are .... and when I can do that, maybe I'll get better at figuring out where other boundaries are with other people and accepting what not to expect from certain people ... and what to expect from others ...

But I have been intimated by him .... and by the whole subject, wondering if I am asking for too much .... wondering if I am exposing myself too much ....

I wish I could be more like Maclove and not worry about where the boundaries are and just push them to find out where they are ....

I also really relate to what lamplighter said about being blind ... I very often feel the same way and wish I had a map ....

when I confronted him about caring about me ... after ranting and raving about what a caring person he is .... he cuts our session short by three minutes .... so I went home and thought, okay, on his side, he says he's caring ... he hasn't done anything to hurt me ... so he must be caring ... true? But then on my side, how do I know he cares about me?????? He told me how he ACTS caring, he makes eye contact, etc ... but how do I know he cares about me specifically????? So one vote for me, right? And, then he rattles off all this stuff that he felt he needed to tell me, when I just really wanted him to be there with me emotionally .... and then he cuts my session short ... so the way I'm seeing it is that he didn't go out of his way to really CONNECT with me when I wanted him to .... and he cuts my session short .... so another vote for me ... right or maybe two votes even? So one in his favor and 2 or 3 in my favor .... so then I think, well, I guess I am entitled to have my own opinion .... and if I don't FEEL cared about, why am I denying my own reality and buying into his???? So now I am accepting my reality a little more and I'm feeling a little stronger that well, you know ... I just don't FEEL cared about .. that's all ... and I can't explain it ... it's just not happening for me .... he has his reality and i have mine ....

Do I just sound like a big idiot out here? It doesn't seem like anyone responds much to my posts and I'm wondering if I did something offensive ... or if people just don't relate to me ... or I just don't relate to people?

Hi Liese,

Just wanted to step in to welcome you and to say you definitely DON'T sound like a big idiot. I think when people first start posting here it can easily feel like there's not much response, but it just takes a little time... part of it is that any silence feels like aaaaaages because you feel exposed; part of it is that people don't know you so well yet so they can be a bit shy or just have less to say than they might when they have the chance to get to know you and connect with you more.

It's also just the normal way of any message board that some posts get more responses than others - nothing to do with the value of the post or the poster, but lots to do with chance collisions of time, energy and things-to-say-about-a-particular-topic.

Anyway, I don't have much to offer on the subject of transference, but I welcome you posting and hope you keep posting, you're very welcome here. Any silence from my part is interested, thoughtful silence, not dismissive silence (ok, sometimes there's some distracted or busy-going-bananas silence in there too).

Jones

PS I mean all the above for all our other newbies too. There are a few new names around - welcome to all of you.

J

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:

Do I just sound like a big idiot out here? It doesn't seem like anyone responds much to my posts and I'm wondering if I did something offensive ... or if people just don't relate to me ... or I just don't relate to people?

I can only speak for myself and I DO NOT think you sound like a big idiot....I can say that I personally would love to reply to each and every post, but in reality, I reply to those mainly that happen to be at the top of the list when I happen to log in. Not the right way to do things I suppose, but if I'm reading through the topics and posts and I have time and something strikes me I reply...other times, something strikes me and I really want to reply, but don't have the time at that moment to reply as I would like....so that is just me. So please, try not to read too much into it when you don't get responses...

Regarding the transference thing, I've never really brought it up as black and white as that. I've hinted that I find our relationship strange and sometimes I feel guilty for feeling I need him so much in between sessions etc and I've even asked him if it is "normal". He just continues to reassure me that it is a different relationship, that it is expected that I would feel a connection like that with him. He has basically said, that is how it works. He just doesn't get into all of the technical details...he doesn't talk about attachment or transference or anything. He just continues to assure me that it's ok. He continues to encourage me to trust myself and if that means I think I need to reach out to him, then trust it and do it. I am to a point, with a number of things going on, that I feel a bit guilty again for how much I just rely on him...but in reality, I know that it is ok for now...and even being able to admit that I need him when I am feeling at my worst and not "guilting" myself over it and just trusting that it is ok and it will work out the way it is supposed to in the end is fine. I don't think I have any attraction issues, sexual transference or anything with my T. I really prefer not ever to see him outside of his office...but right now, that damn office is about the safest place I can think of....and well, I guess I will just accept that for now!

Jones,

You and I must have been posting at the same time! You are right on in your response....

quote:

ok, sometimes there's some distracted or busy-going-bananas silence in there too).

Thanks Jones and Hals ... Having a really bad day .... and Hals, when I said that I bring up the transference issues, I mean what you are talking about .... needing too much .... I don't actually call it transference to him .... but I'm just assuming it's transference .... I don't really have a handle on the transference thing ..... My T says the same thing ... it's all normal .... it's okay to need him ... that happens in therapy ... blah blah blah ...

anyway ... wish me luck today ... I feel like SHIT!