SP, You did nothing "wrong". My heart goes out to you. You may really want to consider working with another T. In my view, you deserve a lot more than what you receiving. Please take care.

Hi VH

Yeah - in terms of sending a text, that was not in any way abusive or even manipulative (I just dont do that - ever)... I didn't break any laws or even common decency. I did break her boundary though - for which I have apologized muchly. what else can I do?

I'm in a low way.

She attempted to bring up some of the detail from last session (that is she began to describe some of the abuse I'd began to try to talk about), but it just triggered me and I retreated into silence. I cannot go into that stuff and then just leave with no ideas about how to survive the days that follow. It's all in my head now anyways - so, thanks for that T.



I'm so sorry people, I seem to have posted so much recently. I will function properly again at some point and offer some support back - promise.

sb

SB, you're not doing anything wrong, either by posting here (post as much as you like!) or by needing a more supportive therapy situation. The strict limits may be okay for some clients, but it seems pretty clear that they are not okay for you. That would also be true for many other clients with complex trauma and/or attachment issues.

It seems to me that this situation is reinforcing some pretty deep messages - that you don't deserve the care that you need, that you have to carry more than you can cope with, that you have to survive alone, and that you've done something wrong. I know it will be hard to believe this, but none of that is the actual truth. It doesn't have to be this way. The limits are convenient and workable for this therapist in this agency, and I strongly believe they actually have nothing to do with you at all. It's like - imagine a school cafeteria where the cheapest way to serve lunch to everybody was to do peanut butter sandwiches. So they do. Some kids are allergic to peanuts, but no one's paid attention to that, because the mandate is to serve cheap and easy food to as many kids as possible. But some kids are REALLY allergic to peanuts, and peanuts can REALLY hurt them.

Forgive me if I follow this analogy a little further. You can say that the allergic kids (or their parents) are responsible for themselves. In one way it's maybe sorta kinda true, in another it's a cop-out, and in a third way it doesn't matter at all. It's just not an okay match between those kids and the cafeteria, and that's that. And SOMEONE needs to get those kids to a safer situation, which doesn't involve peanut butter. Make sense? That's the bottom line.

There are other options. You may not feel hopeful about them, or that you deserve them, but I suspect the feelings of despair are colouring your sense of what is possible. Please can you talk to us a little bit about what your other options may be? Even if nothing seems right just now.

Thanks Jones and SP.

The T is ok. In other circumstances she could be really good. I think she does actually care (she wasn't cold in her style, just a bit freaked that I'd broken out of the flimsy (boundaries) box... maybe I should change my name to ninja hamster?)

I need to allow myself space to consider what I NEED. This is always painful, followed by the difficulties of access where I am. Even if I cannot do anything about my situation right now, even allowing myself to have needs and not feel that heavy shame for not fitting someone elses box for the 'ideal client'... maybe that would help?

sb aka ninja hamster

Oh SB - reading your post my heart broke for you - and I had an urge to reach through the computer and shake sense into your T!!!!!

I would have felt exactly the same - only I probably wouldn't have had the courage and guts you did to tell her how your words hurt me - that was AWEOME you could!!!!

I don't know what else to say - my mind boggles at her coldness and concern about her feelings .

oooh ninja hamster!

Thanks people - you have really really helped me so much. It's been a horrible time.

I ended up saying all sorts to my T (I felt totally traumatized) and ended up all kind of saying stuff about how it feels for me... and crying (and there were no tissues and that was so rediculous in itself I then ended up laughing at the no tissues, and then crying again...). Messy.

Then she left cos she had another client.

She wasn't cold, but she hadn't really thought about what it was like for me - and I was still left with no strategies between sessions or for driving home.

I'm done in. I'm so tired.

Oh yes Draggers. I've been through the mill in the past with the NHS. Terrible place to be ill. They certainly make it worse and then you have to be grateful... it's a total nightmare. At least the charity is a little kinder in some respects (therapy weekly for a start! I was offered psychotherapy once every 6 weeks on the nhs - just how long would it take to even begin to feel safe??!)

How the heck is going on holiday manipulative? Healthy and to be encouraged surely!??!

I'm sorry my situation led you tears Draggers.

I'm not going to decide what to do right now. I'm going to try to sleep and switch off from it all for a bit.

I've tried to get things clarified with my exT - probably wont help... but at least I'll know if it is an option to try to work with her. Probably not, but worth an email of my thoughts and questions about her approach.

Night night all

SB/NH

Wow, you are truly amazing SB. The courage and how you've been able to in a few posts, move to a place of ... Something I admire anyway.

Ps - the ninja hamster pic totally cracked me up

Hi ElizaJ and SP

I have woken after inadequate sleep, with headache, feeling very rubbish.

I have such mixed feelings. I want to hold on to this T, just for those moments of connection and caring she gives me... I recognize that it's like finding a cup of water in a desert... If she were nearer my home I could make it work (as it would take out the hugely scary drive when I'm crying). It's hard to walk away in this state, leaving the only support I have (even though it is clearly inadequate and causing me problems in it's own right).

I also know it's going to be taken from me anyway. This has happened to me before, years ago in the NHS. I did a really massively daring thing and gave a statement to the police about a part of what happened to me when I was small. In response to making an 8 hr statement to the police... my counselling was immediately closed with the excuse that 'if I could make a statement I no longer needed help'. 2 years of severe PTSD followed - it nearly killed me. I had attached to the counsellor and he left me (on orders of his boss). I was a total mess, with ED and SI and unable to work/do anything. My family really suffered. I could have taken them to court - except I was in such a mess I couldn't do that. I have since wished I did sue them for negligence - I had a very very strong case. (I agree SP - the NHS is good, but not for mental health stuff).

I know the counselling I have is time limited, but the actual date isn't set. Unfortunately this leaves me waiting to be ditched. Inside I am terrified that they will choose the worst possible week and just throw me out. I did bring this up in the session, amongst all the tears - the counsellor just agreed that I was facing being chucked off the list. I guess there is nothing that can be done... other than run away, before I'm facing another cliff.

Little parts of me feel confused and needing her. Having told little bits of a big and horrible story, we are facing leaving, with it all half out. This is the pull of the ex-T - she knows some of the stuff already, there is no need to re-explain. On the other hand... she isn't great at 'being there' and offering what I need. Actually, it's been so long I can't even remember what sessions were like with her. She did see me through the aftermath of the NHS - a point of time where I was triggered by everything. I know I'm totally hypervigillant with exT, partly because of the previous history of counselling and partly because she really messed up on a couple of occassions and wasn't great at allowing me my feelings about that (I guess she was distressed herself).

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I cannot move forward, nor back. I don't have the strength to climb out of the place I'm stuck in. I don't know how to get 'mountain rescue' to come find me and bring a rope so I can pull myself out of this crevice. Even if I get out, what I need is to lay down, not continue up the therapy-mountain.

I try to keep a sense of perspective (ninja hamster is helping!) and to remind myself I don't have to decide what to do this minute, I can do nothing for a bit.

Thanks for all the support.

sb (stuck hamster)

Dear SB, I am so sorry to hear about your session with your T. Therapy is supposed to be about you not about the T!

I agree with everyone who has posted, you deserve better and you have done nothing wrong.

My parents were like your T. When I had problems as a child and adult they weren't strong enough to cope so they told me that I made them ill, worry, tired etc......

I ended up keeping everything inside for years and taking care of their emotional health to the detriment of my own. I told them that it would be better if I did not exist then I wouldn't cause them any problems.

I couldn't do anything about my parents but a T to say that is shameful.

Please do post as often as you wish, everyone on here supports you and you are going through a dreadful time not knowing what is going to happen.



Caroola xx

Hi Caroola

Yeah... at least I got to point out that the dynamic was that I had to take care of her, and that my not being ok driving home was still an issue, the only difference was that I would be totally alone with it, so as not to worry her...

She got very flustered and tried to say that counselling was about me - but I was crying and saying, no, no it isn't here is it? I don't matter - what matters is that YOU dont feel worried. sigh. Thinking about it, I did an ok job of letting her know what those boundaries were doing to me.

Even the giving of her mobile number to me in the first place, in order that I could save her inconvenience was a bit suspect. Give me a number, tell me I can't contact her (other than to save her a trip if I can't attend) and then do intensive work in session with me. Cruel really - give me the means to reach out but the instruction not to.

Therapists, in my experience, hardly ever think about how things look to the client. If the rules had been about protecting me... if she had said not to text because clients can find no reply, or short replies to distress difficult - that would have been different. But it wasn't about me, it was about her. She didn't even look at WHY I'd been so distressed. Nor what to do if and when I'm too upset to drive safely happens again (this wasn't the first time and we have never looked at strategies - other than she tells me to go for a walk after the session and eat something. Doesn't actually stop the distress, just seems to delay it).

I cannot decide what to do now. Let go of the little I have? I don't know.

sb

I feel like it must be my fault. I seem to attract abuse - it's like I make people do this stuff... I know that is nonsense.

I need to locate my inner ninja hamster...

I am sorry if I will be to direct...but I would leave your T.

I do work in a medical area..and just today I heard the next words from an important and worldwide known doctor, who gave an advise to other doctors at some meeting we had:

He said, that nowadays everything is about boundaries and distance that doctors are creating towards the patient...like...you go to a family doctor he says ok you have depression, now go to the nurse or receptionist, do the questionnaire then you get pills and off you go...but as a patient you want to see a doctor because you trust him, you trust him your deepest discomforts, illnesses, worries...and it seems that trust is something not really valued anymore...And that was the advise to the doctors...they need their patients and they should value them...they should respect the trust that patients give them. They should work on a better relationship they have with their patients. If they have to many patients, they need to reduce them.

And this goes also for the Ts. Maybe even more.

I am with you...and I will share this example in my country...how not to be treated. I know that sometimes some things must be really strict...but not in cases like that...Your T perfectly took care of herself, without even thinking what this can mean. And she as a T should know that sometimes days are to long to wait for next session and it really makes me angry, because probably all you needed was to hear she is still there.

I feel proud of you. You told here how this makes you feel.. You stood up for yourself and for all of us!

And another thing...she shouldn't just left you in an empty room and her running to another client. She should be aware of that that sometimes, clients get upset at the end of the session. She wasn't careful and if she was a good T, she would start to ground you, help you to calm at least 10 min before the end of the session or she should appoint other clients with 15-30 min break between sessions.

I see a lot of red flags concerning your T.

None of this is your fault. None! She went to school to be thought this things, and some things also change after some years.

I would gently propose to you, to seek for another T, that will meet your needs, because your needs are a logical consequence of the things you survive from. I know this is are hard words and maybe you can not do it. It is ok whatever you do. Just please note, I can be there for you if needed. At least by email.

You did everything right or even better.

I am not a doctor nor a T, but I know a lot about the therapy and T versus client relationships.

Thank you Ninna

I will think about what you have said. I dont think they were hard words, but caring about me.

saphhire b

As I said, I think you're amazing in how you were able to covey to her how it left you feeling.

Will you talk to her some more about how it felt to be left alone in a room with no tissues while she simply moved offices? It might be something she can reflect on and you never know, she might change a little bit if how she practices - or has a plan if you are upset and / or distressed at the end of a session with her again.


I know you've shard how much of a struggle it is to drive home (hence you Txting her) - did she help y come up with a solution?

My last T made it clear where her boundaries were - if I was in crisis, I was to phone the emergency numbers or lifeline etc. she wasn't on call and wasn't able to respond in a crisis. If I was feeling suicidal, I needed to phone the mental health system (ie not phone or email her).

It worked in that I understood the limits. Didn't love it but I DID understand them. What I found though is that I was holding back quite a bit because I didn't want to get to a crisis point or leave therapy session distraught. I respected her boundaries but it didn't help me fully trout her life i needed too (situation made worse by the lack if support and very very poor response from my local mental health psych emergency when I did try to reach out to them when in crisis)

Anyways - even if she cannot do more for you if you leave a sessions feeling distressed or really struggle to drive home afterwards, she can - and should - help you come up with a crisis plan / safety net for what you CAN do if in that situation again.


I also think you're inspirationally brave for having the courage to show her your tears / distress - that takes a lot of guts for sure (my default reaction is to dissociate on the inside and not show any emotion - or not even feel anything until hours or days later..

SB,
I know that you have had such a hard time and that you are limited in the therapy options you have where you live. I really feel for you in your struggle with the circumstances of the therapy situation you are in currently. Forgive me for asking a dumb question, but...is there a chance that you might move sometime in the future to a place that would give you more options to get the kind of therapy you deserve? I wish the best for you. I think you deserve an easier situation that would be more helpful to your healing.

Well... I have just emailed head office and said that I'm not coming any more. I explained that I was increasingly not ok after sessions and hadn't safe strategies to deal with between session, so that in order to protect my mental health I'm stopping.

It's very odd finishing it via the 3rd party - but this is how the T wanted it to be conducted, so it is kind of appropriate to use the system. Honestly though, I hope she feels sad (is that bad?).

I feel the T was ok on the whole (maybe not that final session, but outside of that there were many positives). But when I thought about continuing to explore my issues within a structure that was not supportive and safe... I decided that this was foolish. Better to find something more flexible, safe and hopefully nearer at some point.

SB

I am so proud of you SB, that has taken a huge amount of courage. You have come such a long way from when you first posted.

It is not bad to hope she feels sad. I hope she feels more than sad. She has put you at risk and that is almost unforgivable that a T should do that.

You have taken control and taken it away from T. I am jumping up and down for you. It is brilliant.

Get a new T when you feel able to. One that will give you the care you deserve.

So happy for you dear SB.



Caroola xx

Thanks Caroola

I feel kind of sad I do think she cared and she gave me the best hug once that I've ever had ever ever in my life (and I'm keeping it!).

She didn't do grounding though at the end of sessions - she just didn't. Sometimes she'd remind me we had 10 mins left (not often), but left me to continue talking and then out I went. She did put me at risk.

I hope she feels more than sad too. I want to matter to her I guess. Maybe I will just have to imagine that I do/did and let it go somehow.

sb

WOw - you're amazing SB - the courage it took to do that.

I feel happy sad for you - happy you've taken control and some power back and made a deacons and are planning on finding some e more suited to hr needs; and sad least you don't hear back from her (when you'd think you would - cos it's not closure necessarily if she gets yr message and leaves it like that?).

I had to make a similar choice recently with regard to a caseworker. She was great, I REALLY like working with her (wasn't any transference feelings there thankfully though). I felt I could rely on her and trust her.

Then she started to let me down - simply didn't show up to our apps at my house, no txt or call to cancel and it severely triggered PTSD symptoms in me. She then failed to phone at the promised time - she didn't phone at all, it wasn't just that she was an hour or so late - the promised call never happened!. And all this after I had let her know how much it affected me when she didn't keep her word

I too had to make the hard decision to terminate my work with her. I was too distressed to talk to her directly. I talked to her boss, expressed how it had been, how damaging it was, and how I was very reluctantly needing a new caseworker.

I never heard back or had any further contact I what my caseworker. No closure at all . I talked to her boss about it - how I was finding it hard to move on - but she was an unsympathetic cow and told me 'well you have the new worker now - I think you just need to move in and let it go!'. I'd just wanted an email or a phone call from my caseworker to say that I hadn't made the decision lightly; how I really did like her, but had to change, that it wasn't personal and I want all ahitty.

I really hope your T contacts you SB so you can have some closure. The 3rd party termination is a very odd thing and can leave you feeling quite unsettled.

((((SB)))))

You are so strong. I know you probably don't feel that way but you are. As far as NOT attracting abuse, you took care of yourself in this situation and refused to allow someone else tell you what you need or what you don't need, etc. Some people just want to blame others - anyone - for their shortcomings. Sounds like your T did that. You didn't take her stuff on and that's awesome!

You were very strong in doing a hard thing with the hope that it will be better for you in the long run. Good work. I hope you find a therapy situation that works better for you soon!

Hi ElizaJ - Thanks. Not feeling powerful, just bereft. I'm pretty sure I'll never hear a thing from her. She wont see it as her responsibility to do so. I did know and think through this before I contacted head office. My only other option would have been to wait 2 weeks for my next appointment, do the long drive, and sort out finishing face to face. The 2 weeks of tension again I decided was not going to be ok. I can't make her offer me some closure. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your caseworker

Thanks Liese - I'm just trying hard to make the best of the situation It's like trying to find the least-worst option all the time. I still feel I'm in the wrong - but knew that I'd feel that whatever decision I made. This way I'm wrong, but not having to drive in a dissociated state. At least I'm safer.

Thanks Quell. I hope I find some support locally. I'm talking with my exT and so far it's going ok (via email). We shall see.

Thanks to everyone for the support here. You are all so kind.

sb

I really hope you can find a T soon - one that better fits with you and what you need

I still think you're amazing though cos it wouldn't have been an easy decision at all.

Hey, Draggers, Is your ninja hamster Reepicheeps cousin?

SB, I'm so sorry for your loss. And also so, so glad that you moved to protect yourself and your most vulnerable parts. I hope you will keep moving towards care.

SB,

I totally support you...! I think you had made the best choice, that is you chose yourself. And sadness is a logical reaction. feel it, grieve it!

Keep in mind that you can find another therapist/person that will be what you need. Never give up looking!

I am here!

Brave,brave SB

Thinking of you SB



Caroola x

I've been feeling really sad. However, I had been dreading Fridays and the long journeys and the aftermath.

Yesterday, out of the blue, I did get a brief email from the T, via headoffice of course. She'd been sent a copy of my email to headoffice and said she feels I've made the right decision in stopping coming. She very briefly said:

'The constraints of the time, building, organisation etc can be limiting.'

Says to contact the office if I wish to continue and wishes me luck.

I guess it's a kind of closure. It's nice that she bothered. I'm thinking I shouldn't reply though.

SB

Hi SB, I am glad she responded to you.

You are right, I think it would be better not to respond. You may then be waiting for another response from her

You may find it more empowering that she made the last move, if you get my meaning.

Well done on taking control. I hope you find a new T soon. BUT, she has left the door open should you change your mind, which we are all allowed to do.

Keep posting.

Caroola x

Thanks Caroola and Draggers

I wont reply. It is more empowering not to as you say. It's kind that she left the door open.

I'd be uncomfortable with a more personal reply, as it was relayed via a 3rd party!!! I'd feel kind of exposed. Her message was sent via someone at the main office. NHS - you'd not even get that!

I'm not looking for a T at the moment. I might contact my ex-T again sometime, who knows.