I think it's good for a discussion with your T and see what he is comfortable with personally and believes will be most effective for your treatment.

My Ts and I had a 'no touch' thing going on - not spoken but my Ts were cogniscant of it. It wasn't something I communicated but rather just how it was - I'd stand far and almost run out of the room when I'd leave. T said there were times she wanted to hug me (thought it would be effective) but couldn't/didn't.

It can be healing. Since touch is regularly integrated in my sessions it did increase closeness. Both of my Ts are female, and I have no erotic transference. I can and do also say no - and I can and do ask - which I think is a good skill to develop first. I can't imagine who frustrating it would be to want touch but just hope your T knows. It's also good to know when you're in a super bad place for it...

Not sure of that helps but... If it helps the scared feelings you can remind yourself YOU get to be in charge of your own body and self if touch works in your therapy.

Affinity,
My T has a strict no hugs across the board rule for all his clients. The only touch I experience with him is a handshake at the end of the session (which I find important to keep the "I'm too revolting to even touch" beliefs at bay.

I do want to be clear that there are plenty of Ts out there who do hold and/or hug their clients or use other forms of touch in therapy and I am in no way trying to say that is wrong. Just want to share my experience of what not having that has been like.

We have spent a lot of sessions on my expressing my longing to be held (sometimes with me screaming at him to be honest, lots of hurt and anger associated with this topic), so my T has been very open to discussing and welcoming all of my feelings on the topic while being very gently clear that this is a boundary that will stay in place. Being able to explore these feelings has been really important in my healing as their was a lot of grief about not having a safe embrace with my father. It also led to me becoming conscious of and processing my feelings about moving towards my father, being driven by my needs, only to be abused (something that regularly gets triggered in all kinds of situations, so that processing and understanding it has led to much healthier relationships).

I will be honest and say it has been very difficult and very painful at times to accept this boundary. I recently got deeply triggered around this issue and brought it back into my sessions and was amazed at how deeply and compassionately my T reacted to the situation and how painful it must have been for me. He was even good about me getting angry about him telling me the boundary wouldn't move. I was angry he told me because all I was trying to do was talk about my feelings. So a lot has gotten worked through around this issue.

I will also tell you that as I have ventured deeper into body issues, my weight and (mostly avoiding but BN mentions it regularly to remind the topic is there ) sexuality, I have had visceral experiences of how truly helpful that boundary has been in allowing me to feel safe. I had one session where I was talking about some very intense reactions I had to being touched by my dentist (either very professional or appropriately friendly or comforting. What to be clear that NOTHING untoward occurred, I've known him for over 25 years) that I realized my deep confusion around being touched, especially by a man. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, just how very confused and messed up I would have been if BN had hugged me.

Now in my case, I suffered sexual abuse at the hands of my father, and there is a tremendous amount of transference, including sexual and romantic feelings for BN, so I think that the risk of me being harmed or confused by touch are much higher than for other people.

I also feel like, as painful as it has been to not have included that level of touch, it has helped me keep clear as to the nature of our relationship. BN is definitely a "we can talk about absolutely anything" kind of therapist balanced by the fact that I very rarely get to act anything out without discussing it.

So either way, if your T is willing to use touch or not, I do think its an important topic to discuss. Touch is fundamental to human development (babies die without it) and human connection. There is a good reason we hug our loved ones hello and goodbye, so I think it is an important topic to address in therapy. Even your "crawling out of my skin" reactions are important as well as wondering if it would help.

I know that there are members whose therapists use a lot more touch in their work and who feel like they have benefited from it. Hopefully they will also respond to give you insight from both sides of this issue.

But I know no matter how you approach it, this is a real mine field of a topic, I wish you the best in navigating it.

AG

Thanks, AG. Unfortunately, erotic transference is a huge issue for me, too, which makes me especially nervous to bring this topic up to my T.

I have found that therapeutic touch can be really soothing, though I have no idea how to get it when I need it - it seems to be supplied on a basis of her decision. I dont have any issue with erotic transference with my current T (who is female). I reaches me in a way that being left isolated and feeling small couldn't with just words. I dont think though that the touch has to come via the T. A person could find a massage person they were comfortable with and have say a head massage. Or a friend who is comfortable with hugs can help at times.

SB

Thanks, everyone. I can see this is going to be a tough issue to tackle.

As far as touch possibly helping me to discharge feelings, my thought was that maybe It would help me to develop a more realistic perspective of my T--one that's not so sexualized. Of course, I understand how this could backfire as well.

quote:

I understand the shame and fear of rejection. Whatever the romantic feelings, shame and rejection come straight from the pit of childhood wounding.

quote:

It has enabled me to feel safe enough to talk about what I am feeling, to tolerate vulnerability, to 'be' little. I can say words I never dared to, explore my childhood in ways once unimaginable. It at once meets a need and causes pain. It is complicated, but it has enabled me to explore the extreme deprivation of my childhood environment.

Yes, yes.
And yes, very complicated.

I feel I also need to add that the very first tender, comforting touch by my therapist (many years ago) created a life or death situation for me. I think what happened was that I was getting something I'd never received before. Having that intense connection suddenly gave me something to compare with my deprivation. Suddenly I knew the enormity of it. It was the size of the grand canyon. It was almost too much. I became very suicidal. And things became very, very complicated after that.

I only want to give or receive a hug when I am certain it is from the bottom of the heart. Can't stand those superficial kisses, etc.I have often wanted to hug t after a session because I've never felt so close to someone and it would feel authentic and very satifying. T explained why not; and it was not a rejection, just protection for both of us because my boundaries were so violated growing up. He said he did not want to change the way I experience him. A few months back something horrible took place in session; out of NOWHERE I started to shake. This never happened to me in my life. I could not stop. I tried desperatley to make it stop. I said to him "what is this". Basically coming apart. It was horrendous and lasted about twenty solid minutes. He said that is how I felt growing up in my household and this was a discharge of emotion. I know that now. I sat in my car for about an hour, went home and wondered "why the HELL did this man not come near me to comfort me"? I emailed him and he said it was very painful for him to observe. I told him I thought it would just be "human nature" to want to physcially reach out and hug someone out of genuine compassion while witnessing that. He said knowing my background he would have scared the hell out of me! I disagreed. He said I did not want a hug, I wanted to be held. I did. He said he was sitting as close to me as possible but I don't remember any of it. I respect his position, but still think I would have been able to endure that human contact since I was completely starved of it. The shaking took place months later, less intense, and he still did not touch me. I know he wanted to, but he just sat next to me and talked me through it. They say in the midwest and west coast hugs are more freely given by therapists.

I don't think there is a right or a wrong, I think it is simply about what feels right for each individual client and therapist.

For me, touch is important as I am so shame-filled in sessions, a hand hold or hug from T helps affirm that she is not disgusted by me or by what I have to say. Sometimes reaching out for a hand to hold is the only way I can reach out in session, when I have no words to explain how I feel. It took years however for it to feel safe enough to allow myself to be touched by T and it has never felt anything but safe and affirming. I have many memories of never being held or comforted as a child by my mum, my fear in opening up in therapy was that my therapist would respond to any distress in me with that same cold detached way she did. For me that would have been so triggering and a sure-fire way of me shutting down further.

That's how it works for me. I know I would find the same touch from a male T very different and wouldn't feel comfortable at all, but from a female T who I know and trust completely it is very healing. Like I said I don't think there's a right or a wrong, it's what works best in each therapeutic relationship.

fishy

These replies are giving me so much to think about. Thanks for sharing. Today was a bit rough for me just trying to sort through my feelings. I want to discuss this stuff with T, but I'm feeling a massive amount of humiliation over things we've already discussed. It seems like the subject of my transference comes up about every 3rd or 4th session. I'm trying to trust in his compassion and power through the shame, but it feels pretty overwhelming at times. The grief hasn't quite arrived yet, but I feel it coming. I'm so damn drained and tired of fighting for the light. My inner child just seems to scream constantly, and I can't see any desire as rational. Who the hell has a crush on their 60+ year-old T? Gah!

My t is going to be 70....I have a major "crush" on him. Crazy!! He recently gave my appt time to "another" women in desperate need. I went crazy because I felt like he was replacing me and she was stealing him away. That was "our time", etc. Took a long time to work through that one with him and he paid dearly for it and we both learned a lot from it.

My T is 65 this year. Of course, I just turned 53 so it's a twelve year gap. Enough older than me to sneak in some paternal transference and close enough in age to also include Erotic transference in the mix. (And there's the eewww factor since I was sexually abused by my dad). The truth is that it's not all about what is going on in the room Affinity, the intensity is fed by the setup of therapy and our unmet needs. It's why, as excruiatingly uncomfortable as it is to discuss these feelings, it can yield so much in terms of insight because I think these feelings are a powerful manifestation in the relationship of a lot of our relationship issues.

So take comfort, you're not the only one. When I first told my T I felt this way, it was obvious I was NOT the first patient to do this (I can only imagine what he had to deal with in his 30s ) but he was really clear that he didn't think it was because he was really all that great and that he knew patients who had seen their therapist years later after therapy had ended, and went "huh? how could I possibly have been attracted?" And as much as I feel like there is a here and now component, I also know that I did not find my T particularly attractive when I first met him. It was only after working with him for awhile and experiencing his focus, care and compassion that he really started to get good looking.

I joke, but know this is uncomfortable stuff.

AG

Ha, ha, I knew I shouldn't have asked. I guess part of my shame comes from the age gap: over 30 years in my case. It's not helped by the fact that, despite the age difference, T and I share a lot in common. I feel like we could be friends if we had met outside of therapy. In that sense, it seems even harder to separate past longings from current feelings.

for you guys.

I wanted my T to touch me today. The whole session I wanted her to. Just a little pat on the shoulder as I left would have been lovely.

sigh.

I can only have touch if I am completely in bits and sobbing... I dont readily do that (it has happened, but not weekly). But then, if I cry, then I beat myself up (unfairly) as it might be manipulation to get a hug (even though it isn't, cos I only cry if I can't hold it all in).

bigger sigh.

SB

Hi Affinity,

First, I want to make clear that while appropriate touch has been so instrumental in my healing so far, I do understand and accept why therapists don’t include touch in their work. Every individual is unique and has different needs and boundaries when it comes to touch. Especially people who’s physical integrity has been violated can be profoundly re-harmed where touch is concerned.

In my case, I chose to go into therapy with a somatic therapist mainly in the hope she would not shy away from physical touch. I had been to other T’s in the past but never stayed very long. Not only, but also because of the fact that none of them ever moved closer to comfort me in a physical way.
Since my second session with this T, when she wiped away my tears with her fingers, we have touched each other every single time. We hug closely at the beginning and the end of every session and when I ask, I can be held in some – always appropriate – way. Last session I asked her if I could hold her and she let me.

Sidenote: my T started her professional life as a physiotherapist, which surely explain her ease with physical contact.

I have strong feelings of maternal transference with her and we discuss these openly. I feel the level of trust we have in the therapeutic relationship would also allow me to discuss any feelings of erotic transference, should they arise.
Btw, she’s 58 and I 44, so with the maternal transference blazing away, erotic transference might also be lurking around the corner.
Which reminds me of the invaluable words a friend of mine – who’s a T herself – told me a couple of years ago when I was discussing going back into therapy: “you need a female therapist who’s older than you”. Little did I know what would come up in such a setup .

Red tomato reminded me of how I used to respond to tenderness and comforting touch. It awoke instant feelings of transference for the woman (always a woman ) in question and, being a person never to express needs whatsoever, left me feeling rejected and abandoned over and over again. With my current T, I finally get the chance to work through this and break that awful lifelong cycle.

Touch is given freely, but always after me asking for it – even though I sometimes feel like she energetically sends out signals for me to do just that. That has a lot with teaching me to express my needs, of course. And when we touch, it is always ‘therapeutic’. That is, we talk about what goes on with the both of us.

All this gives me the feeling that I’m not repulsive, that I have a body and it is acknowledged, that it has needs, that touch a natural thing.
It’s permitted me to realize how difficult, on a physical level as well as an emotional one, it is for me to receive love. So we work with that. I agree with Monte about how it can bring up pain as well as being comforting.
It doesn’t meet my needs in the ‘instant’ healing way I once expected it to, though. Let’s say it contributes in an important way, just as do the words we speak, the exercises she makes me do and the vibes we exchange.

In 14 months of therapy, I have never had the urge to ‘ask for more’. Probably because she is so at ease with touch that I don’t have to worry in any way that she would ever withhold it from me. I am sure she is able to give me this because she is so comfortable with her own body and has done the necessary work – and still does – to get to such a point.

Which brings me to the point about the T in the room. It may, and should be mainly about the client in the room, but T’s keep the boundaries THEY are comfortable with, of feel confident about.

I also believe there is a cultural component to this. T’s in the US refrain more from touching their clients than in Europe, where there is less potential threat of lawsuits. And even where I live, in a multicultural city on an historical, cultural and linguistic border between Germanic and Latin Europe, I know French speaking T’s (the ‘Latin’ ones) are a lot more at ease with touch than the Dutch speaking ones (the ‘Germanics’). How crazy is that?

You know, in Gestalt terms, there is nothing but the present and if these feelings keep coming up, it’s because stuff/energy/whatever you call it, needs to keep coming up until they can truly ‘come full circle”. It’s another look at the process of healing. Gestalt therapy also says healing needs to happen ‘in contact’. That is why it is so vitally important to talk about this with your T. With all the complexity of issues as touch and transference, that is the only general rule that applies.

I wish you lots of self compassion, courage and gentleness with yourself.

(((SB)))
Has your T stated that she will only touch you while crying? Sounds like your T would be comfortable with touch at other times, too. If this is something you're wanting, it might be good to bring it up for discussion. (Easier said than done, I know.)

(((Shaman)))
Thank you for your lovely response. Your T sounds amazing, as does your relationship with her. From where I'm sitting now, I don't think I'd want more in terms of touch than T just holding my hand. The thought of more than that makes me squirm. The problem now is actually bringing this up for discussion. I'm so terrified of rejection, I just assume the answer to all of my requests is no on the front end. It removes any need to ask for anything.