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35 replies

This...again. (PISSED NOW)

yakusokuyakusokuMember
Possibly *triggering* for fearing closeness, wanting to quit.

So, still 36 hours to go before my next session. It feels like so long and I'm wanting badly to connect with T. H is seeing him today at 4:00. I was supposed to do some shopping next door while he went and was going to stop by and say, "Hi," with my daughter at the end of H's session, because T said he missed seeing her (hasn't seen her since before I started going almost eight months ago). Last night, I found out I have to watch my nephew, so I can't go. Oh well, no big deal, right? I didn't really think I cared so much about seeing him until this morning. I'm wishing my week away so it can be Tuesday night, just so I can get an hour with him, where I probably won't be able to talk much, and then it will be over and I will be miserable about leaving. He will offer me another Friday call, but I won't be able to accept it, because even though he says he'll do them for free, I told him I'd pay, because he really is earning it, but at the same time, I really can't afford to pay at all. I can't even afford our office sessions, truth be told. But, I can't take his discounts, because I know for a fact that HE cannot afford it and sure, that's his prerogative to offer it me and just trust God that he will be taken care of, but it's too hard for me to not care about this man who is showing me how to be cared about.

So, now I am all in knots, confused about the strength of this need that is obviously very deep and old, but I am not a little girl. I am an adult. I have to take care of myself. The whole idea that he will let me continue in this state and eventually I will have to grow up and leave him is unbearable. It is so heavy, it is unliftable...actually unmovable. I just want to quit right now. I want to text him that I miss him and I need him, but I can't stand feeling that way, so I never want to see him again. All this trauma stuff is making my need for his safe presence so overwhelming. I feel so melodramatic. And I am just stuck for 36 hours trying to decide whether trying to connect by text will make me feel better or just continue to heighten my needing and missing someone I can't really have. I don't hate myself for feeling this way...which is progress of a sort. I just hate that I have let myself need in a way that is so painful.
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Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Yaku,
Can you trust me that I have been where you are right now and felt what you're feeling? It's horrible to need them so much, not to mention terrifying. But there is a way through.

quote:
The whole idea that he will let me continue in this state and eventually I will have to grow up and leave him is unbearable. It is so heavy, it is unliftable...actually unmovable. I just want to quit right now. I want to text him that I miss him and I need him, but I can't stand feeling that way, so I never want to see him again.


When we don't get what we need when we're small, it can stall our development or bend it awry so that we need to go back and learn some things we should have learned as children. Their hard enough lessons to learn growing up but even more difficult to do as an adult, which is why you are in so much pain, despite no one doing anything wrong. You are not wrong to feel this way about your T nor to want what you do from him.

And of course it sounds impossible to leave him, you're not ready to yet. I want you to consider the fact that human beings need to be dependent in order to develop and grow into someone who can be on their own. But while they're doing that, no one expects them to do it on their own (at least who isn't abusive). I mean, you wouldn't look at a two year old and say they were clingly and needed to learn to take care of themselves, right? I know this analogy may seem faulty since you are an adult. But the truth is that you need to allow yourself to be dependent on your T, within the boundaries, so that you can finish your development and learn the skills you need to take care of yourself.

When you do it this way, when you reach the time to leave, you'll both know its time and have learned enough to be strong enough to face leaving. But you don't need to face all of this all at once. Just focus on healing first, which is difficult enough, and let the leaving take care of itself until you get there. But believe me when I say there was a time where I didn't believe it would ever be possible to leave, but I did. And as much as I can miss seeing my T on a regular basis, it didn't mean the end of the relationship.

But hang in there, I know this is really painful, scary and chaotic. But you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

AG
yakusokuyakusokuMember
AG - Thanks for your kind words. I just wish it weren't necessary for me to feel so strongly, all at once, this connecting to the safety and love I needed so desperately, but neither of my parents could find within themselves to give. Sometimes I get very angry at T, because HE insisted on seeing me after the incident with H and then made a mess inside me. It feels like it was not my choice, although I know it was. And now I'm "in" these feelings on my father's abandonment and my mother's varying forms of abuse and neglect all the time when I had dissociated them into virtual nonexistence (or at least my dysfunction was camouflaged). Now, I am discovering trauma I never knew about. It seems like it just keeps getting worse and I wonder how much deeper the rabbit hole goes and if T will really accompany me all the way down and back out the other side.

quote:
I mean, you wouldn't look at a two year old and say they were clingly and needed to learn to take care of themselves, right?


Whenever I get down on my dependency and neediness, T brings up my daughter (2.5) just as you are now. I know HE does not judge me for how I feel. Projections, transference, attachment, fear of how much I need him...no matter how honest I am about these things, they do not phase or move him. Still, I cannot find it within me to trust that any human being can be that steady and that the bottomless pit that is my need for care, safe closeness and nurture, will not eventually, exceed their resources or desire to help me. Frowner
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Ended up seeing I missed a text from T last night, just to say he was praying for me. Usually that makes me feel better, but it just made my needs higher. So, I texted him and let him know how heavy the attachment is feeling today. Now, I'm feeling so overwhelmed, stuck in this feeling of being attacked, abandoned and unprotected. It's making me dizzy, I'm having trouble breathing and I feel physically as if I might lose consciousness. Trying to stay calm and know it will pass...
L lieseMember
Yaku,

Been seeing my T for 3 plus years and I am still adjusting to accepting the dependency and attachment issues. You are doing such an amazing job despite how hard it is. I guess the trick is to keep grounded somehow??? How does one keep grounded in the midst of all these crazy feelings?

What do you mean by the heaviness of the feelings???
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I guess, it feels like there is something big and heavy in front of me, and I know I have to move it, but I can't do it on my own (not even enough to get my fingers underneath it)...and no one will help me. So I just sit on the floor helpless in front of this thing that is too big for me. It's a kind of helpless, trapped feeling...I guess. Like being attached to T is going to crush me. I keep feeling smaller and smaller every moment that I look up and see it in front of me. I feel like an ant trying to move a grand piano.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Still working on it. Only on chapter 4 (finished reading), because there are questions at the end of every chapter and I am giving them a lot of thought. The last chapter said stuff that fed into my paranoia that I am exaggerating or overreacting to the things I've experienced. I know I can do that sometimes (like reading too much into stuff that may be nothing), but most times people say I barely react to stuff that should be a big deal (dissociate I guess)...so I am going back and forth between feeling like a horrible, disgusting person who keeps portraying herself as a victim when in reality stuff was "not that bad," and being very angry that the book makes me feel I need to minimize the pain I'm in, otherwise I am just manipulating to get someone to care about me. And maybe neither of these are completely true. I think it's more about the fact that expressing my thoughts and feelings as a child, I was told how disgusting I was, berated for feeling and needing, threatened, kicked out, etc. So, I feel like the book pointing out that a lot of codependents do "such and such" behavior to get taken care of triggered me to feel like another person was telling me that how I was feeling and reacting to that past abuse, neglect, abandonment, etc. was "too much." Then, it makes me want to hide my feelings again, shut myself down, go back to the "so what?" and "whatever" of the last decade and beat the crap out of that little kid to get her to shut up. So...I have been avoiding answering the questions in the last chapter for now.
L lieseMember
Oh yaku,

That's awful that the book is having that kind of effect on you. I was hoping it was good and I wanted to read it.

We become codependent because it's what we learned. There shouldn't be any shame in it or the recovery process. Think of the HUGE favor you are doing your daughter. In one of the articles I read about CPTSD, the way it was described was that our emotional parts are always on the "lookout" for what it didn't get in childhood. Our emotional parts can't distinguish, necessarily, say between the mother or father AND new people we come in contact with as we grow up and that's how we get abused. We give them too much power over us. It's not that it's bad. It's just always on the lookout. And the longer we are deprived of it and the more we get abused, the worse it gets. I may have it all wrong but that's my general understanding.

(((YAKU)))))
yakusokuyakusokuMember
T texted me back on my texts about how I was feeling (I sent a short one on the attachment being heavy and a short one on feeling overwhelmed, like I'm about to faint)...and pissed me off. I wasn't expecting a reply, but I'd rather he had just heard me. Instead I feel judged and sermonized. Frowner

T: It is very difficult to get through these feelings right now, I think because all this new stuff coming up has left you feeling back to square one (emotionally) though you really are not. It is scary to move forward. I suggest you stop trying to figure things out and be seeking a place of refuge and rest. I believe only in a safe place we are building in fellowship with God can we manage these things as they come up. So for me, that means stepping up the waiting, listening, feeding on what He will say. Only He can carry us moment by moment and that is what He is after...the loss of our confidence in..." (and the last part of whatever he was trying to say didn't make it through).

I feel pushed off, like another person telling me I'm too much and sending me away.

I responded: Missing text after "confidence in." A lot of (misdirected) anger from your response. Judgment: I can't even do waiting right, like not being able to regulate my processing of thoughts/feelings makes me bad & then I don't want to share them w you anymore bc all you see is my failure. I want to yell, "How can you not understand my needing to get the hell out of this place as quickly as possible & why won't you HELP me?!" Again, words meant for another person & time. Sorry.-Yaku

I know nothing he said was really "wrong" or "bad," but it just wasn't want I needed. He could have sent, "I know it's hard right now. Trust God. Let's wait on Him. It'll be OK. We'll get through this." He would have been saying the same thing, but I would have heard it, instead of all the garbage about me being bad and doing things wrong and all the "my reactions are too much" judgments he is escalating. I will probably read his texts later and see the value in them, but right now, I just want to text H (who is with him in one minute) to cancel tomorrow's appointment and let him know I might be quitting...
L lieseMember
((((YAKU)))))

The feelings are soooo overwhelming, especially when you didn't know they were there. And, it's like T is the only one who really understand WTF you are going through. And, so it's hard not to feel so freaking dependent upon him.

Have you decided yet about the Friday appointments? It sounds like you really need the contact right now and maybe you should reconsider your decision not to accept his offer of the free phone session. Maybe part of your frustration is not being clear in your mind about that and so on the one hand, he is kind of there for you but not as much as you really need right now. If that piece was in place to help you.

I can't remember if you have talked to t about things you can do to ground yourself in between seeing him?????

((((YAKU)))))

I know it's hard and scary. Try to hang in there. You are doing an amazing job. It's hard to get used to those feelings but eventually it won't be so scary and you will be able to tolerate it more. As always, let T know everything you are feeling.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I do tell T everything I am feeling, but when he responds like he did, I just feel unheard or worse, heard, but I am wrong for my feelings. I've tried to tell him better ways of communicating with me, but it's a learning process...

No, other than praying, reading the Bible, waiting on God, he has not offered me advice on how to ground myself. Sometimes, the spiritual aspects are very helpful. Sometimes, it feels like he uses them to ignore me as a person, an individual, the little child who wants to interact with HIM.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
LG - I don't think I could stand to leave him. I'm so attached. Sometimes, he says just what I need to hear and makes me feel so safe. Sometimes, it feels like he's trying to put a bandaid on a gunshot wound. I suspect it has more to do with my state of mind at the time than his communication. There are times I've thought of trying to find another T, when I'm really struggling...but the spiritual aspect is important to me. I'm not sure I could ever find someone who would be the right balance for me. And obviously no one can know at any given moment exactly what I need, especially knowing me less than a year.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Monte - Thanks. I know that I am transferring both my mother (who basically threatened my feelings out of me with abuse, neglect, etc.) and my father, who abandoned me at my mom's house, knowing she was not stable, because my step-mom was "done raising her kids," as they told a 9-10 year old kid. I know it is about them and the way he said it just drew that out...but I expected him to know better, I guess, with how much we've talked about it. It's not that he wants me to go to God, it's that the way he said it made me feel wrong for feeling and communicating my feelings. I hope he understands that from what I said. I am holding off on canceling until I'm sure what I want. Part of me wants to say, "Fine, if you want me to wait on God, I'll take a month off and only talk to him and make you understand how you pushed me away." I'd just be punishing myself, but some part of me wants to be punished for counting on T.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, DF. Appreciate all the support I can get. I'm all over the place today. I think I need a long block of uninterrupted sleep that doesn't involve trauma nightmares or weird supernatural, freaky dreams, or my daughter or nephew waking me up or my husband's sleep condition causing me problems...that would be nice. Just like two or three nights in a row.
L lieseMember
YAKU,

As a mother of four, I can testify to how much the sleep deprivation can really wreak havoc on your system. And, the stress of having small children is unbelievable. My youngest is just about four and thankfully, she is pretty independent and always has been. But when the others were small, especially the middle two, it was really difficult. I did not have a lot of family support. So, I would encourage to try to find some time for yourself on a regular basis. Only because it's what I didn't do. I can see now how important it is.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, Liese. I know I need to, but the people I trust enough to count on are all so busy or far away. My mother (obviously) is never watching my child by herself, although she has been a better grandmother than a mother to my niece/nephews. My MIL is flakey and scared to put my kid to bed. My SIL is in school full-time. My oldest sister can do it, but she's exhausted from being pregnant, having an infant and the physical abuse/relationship ending with her boyfriend. My other older sister lives two hours away as does my aunt, who I would trust with her. My younger sisters (also work, school) won't come here because of the incident with H. My little brother would, but he is in school and too young to drive. My best (female) friend whose family lived with us last year watches two kids all day long in addition to her own two, so I only use her in emergencies. H works a lot and already takes over bedtimes on nights when I have therapy, band practice, etc. I am going to volunteer at church tomorrow to do some office work for them. Last time I did that, our pastor (who we have gotten to know quite well in the last year) played with my daughter while I just sat and rested and watched them play for over an hour. It was like the day after I started processing my trauma stuff, so it was a lifesaver! Maybe he will do it again tomorrow. I may just have to find a way to pay someone to babysit her for a couple of hours some day...for my mental health.

I'm so scared that I will not be able to talk to T tomorrow. I was thinking about some of the childhood stuff that is coming up with my mom's boyfriend being in my head today and now all I can think is he is going to accuse me of trying too hard or processing too much or will be secretly thinking that I'm exaggerating or looking for drama. Frowner And I don't even want to be open with him, which means I will probably have a $#!++4 session. Maybe if I can manage to sit on the floor again and just let him get the conversation started, then whatever happens naturally will be OK. Then, I won't feel like I'm pushing and won't worry he feels that way either. I know I'm supposed to be directing things as the client, but the texts today have me feeling like the direction of my directing and the results it's producing are not acceptable...UGH, stupid transference!!!
yakusokuyakusokuMember
OK, here is the end of that text he finally had time to resend:
He can carry us moment by moment and that is what He is after...the loss of our confidence in our own capacity to manage things...sort of like a...yes, a little child. The greatest breakthrough you will find will always come when you admit that He must carry you because you are too weak to make it...that is what I do all day long...I really do, and so can you.

So, not only did he attempt to send me like an 8-9 page text when I only needed to be heard earlier, and tell me to stop doing something (which made me feel bad), but now he's telling me how he does things better than me. Razzer Good thing I resolved on my non-transference interpretation BEFORE this half of the text came through. Wink I guess I can tell him God was keeping me safe from getting it all at once.

PS - I guess I just don't like that he assumes that I'm NOT going to God with these feelings before texting him and trying to wait on God. Like, just because I am taking advantage of the "thread" and admitting my weaknesses to T as well, that I must not be connecting with God? It made me feel like he wants me to shut up to him, so I let him know that texting him is one of the ways I confess/admit my weakness and asked if he wanted me to stop "CCing" him on those confessions while I am waiting on God for an answer. I'm afraid I may have offended him with that one. We shall see tomorrow night. Wanting to skip again. All over the place with my attachment tonight. Not sure if I love this guy or hate him!!!
blackbirdblackbirdMember
arg, Yaku. I'm sorry but it seems like you are in one of those awful places where whatever T does or doesn't do will be hurtful...when I get like that I imagine what the perfect response would be...and then I realize, nope that one would have bugged me, too. Roll Eyes I'm sorry that you are in such a place. I hope very much that your session will resolve things for you. It's not easy...

BB
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, you guys. He's been trying to help me slow down for months now...I feel like a big, fat failure that my brain is always going at warp speed. Even if I don't try to focus and think through and work stuff out, it is always churning. I've always been like this. It made me great in school. I could sit down and write an essay a few hours before it was due, because my brain had been writing it for weeks already. But, it also means, when it comes time that I don't WANT to think, I can do nothing about it. The only thing that seems to work is reading a really good book or watching non-triggering TV. But, with a toddler around, I don't really get to do either of those things much anymore.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks for the support, BG. I really appreciate your advice. I am still considering meds. I was going to bring it up to my GP (because I don't think insurance will cover it if I try to get a referral from T, since insurance won't cover him either). However, I need to do a GYN exam (which I used to do and prefer to do with GP as well) my next appointment, and I've been putting it off because of all the stuff that has been coming up and worrying about getting triggered. So...not really sure what I want to do, or even what our options are. I'm thinking of having H switch our insurance to the PPO next time. I think it will be a lot more expensive monthly out of his paycheck, but if we could get even partial coverage for therapy, we could make up some of the cost. So, I guess, I still have no answer about meds.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
My GYN wouldn't definitively diagnose me. She said it "didn't matter," because if I was trying to not get pregnant, I should be on BCP and if I was trying to get pregnant, Clomid. She didn't care about the condition...but I was told in college that some of my hormone levels indicated it, but I didn't have all the symptoms to the degree where they were ready to diagnose. So, I don't know for sure. I was having a lot of problems with BCP causing severe mood swings, so I wonder if hormone treatments would be the same.

Edit: I sent T a text this morning saying "Feel like I've been acting like a real jerk, pushing you you away bc I'm scared of dependency & pretending like you're the one doing the pushing. I'm very sorry.-Yaku"

I think that's what has been going on. Because, deep within me, I know T has been so steady. I know that he isn't rejecting me. But I fear depending on him and eventually losing him or being abandoned so much that I am taking everything as rejection now and pushing back on him. I even had a space of time today where I felt, "Oh well, I could quit counseling and not miss him at all and not care if I never go back to therapy and be fine living in the muck." That's not a feeling I want to stay with. I PREFER the attachment feelings to just not caring for myself or my needs at all...and that is what I would be going back to if I quit.
ladygreyladygreyMember
Yaku,

My doctors said the EXACT same thing to me, "It doesn't matter". Bullshit. It does matter. And BCP doesn't help with the PCOS. It just gives us a period.

There are other avenues that can help though. Different forms of hormones and also Metformin, an insulin stabilizing medicine, has been proven to be very effective in treating PCOS.
ladygreyladygreyMember
I don't want to hijack your thread, but one last comment about PCOS....the medical profession are IDIOTS about this, even Women's Clinics where you would expect to get the best treatment a woman could get. But no. We have to continually be proactive and constantly assert ourselves and take our health into our own hands because they refuse to treat PCOS as anything to be concerned about, despite its debilitating effects it can have on our lives. Yet BILLIONS of dollars have been spent on treating men for erectile dysfunction? What a screwed up world we live in.

Okay, officially off my soapbox now. Smiler
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Session is still over six hours away...I seriously wish I had the courage to just ask him to sit next to me on the couch and let me just be there in silence next to him for an hour. I keep feeling like I want to just cry for no discernible reason, except I am exhausted of feeling. Just cry and cry for hours...but I can't. I can't even manage to do THAT without help. I'm wound up so tight I cannot even release myself enough to do anything with all these feelings. They are stuck in my eyelids, my throat, my neck, my shoulders, my back, my womb, my forearms, my calves, even in my toes. I can't seem to release the tension and every time I try, I feel panicked all over like I'm about to be attacked. Frowner
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Jane/LG - No, really! I appreciate the input. My GYN kept discounting what I was telling her about how horrible the BCP was making me feel. She made me wait three months each time she switched me even if I told her I was having both physical and emotional side effects I couldn't stand. I almost started crying on the phone to her nurse. The fact that I even gave her a chance after she stripped my membranes, without permission, before my daughter was even to her due date, shows everyone what a pushover I am. She also laughed at me when I said I wanted to try delivering without meds (and might change my mind), and she threatened me to push harder during labor. Then, she forgot to order my pain meds for my recovery and I had post-delivery tearing from swelling that caused me to barely be able to sit or stand and her office ignored my urgent voicemails all weekend. Ugh, hate that B----! So, yeah, this brings up a lot of stuff for me too!!!
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Thanks, BG - I really do need to learn how to stand up for myself. That is why I like going to GP. She makes me feel safe to assert my own opinions.

Liese - Thanks so much for asking after me. That's very sweet! I have a separate thread with the details in Personal Accounts section, but I am just spent right now. I feel like I don't have any more to give, but the toddler I watch is coming over soon, so I will have to find something in myself to offer these precious little ones.

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