How could you have that opinion? It's just wrong!!!! (Just teasin' ya.)

I agree. If someone asks for an opinion, others should be able to give it, but we do need to be careful how we say things. I hope that this site continues to be a safe space for people to voice their feelings, thoughts, and opinions.

Funny CG!

This site is a safe place and I'm sure it will continue to be. It's an incredible forum, and has some pretty neat regulars in attendance. I've made this site my first stop in the morning and my last one before bed each day. Knowing that there are people here that are willing to share themselves and to make suggestions when asked is amazing.

You're right CG we do need to be careful how we say things to each other in print so that people don't feel threatened or alienated. Those same written words would be presented and taken much differently if said in person, because words could be clarified or demonstrated through expression.

Thanks for your opinion

Exactly! That's exactly what I said on another discussion. In person, you have body expression, facial expression, proximity, eye contact, etc. Someone can sense what you're saying before they know what you're saying. And, if someone doesn't understand your point, you can sense it, and present it slightly differently.

It makes communication much more effective. Although, the anonimity and immediate and constant access is great here.

Yes voice inflection and gestures go a long way in the deliverance of a message. In fact I was just thinking it's so easy to slip into transference on these boards because all we see is black and white text and it is left to our interpretation almost exclusively.

I like this board a lot and I do see it as a supportive place. I know I am a bit more edgy than some here and I worry about that sometimes.

But philosophically speaking I was just thinking this whole opinion thing could go on for eons in the sense that one could say that once one gives an opinion then are they not open to an opinion of their opinion and so on and so on.

Gotta go get my mom some dinner. Her husband is dying and she needs the care.

Jo

quote:

Originally posted by Jo:
But philosophically speaking I was just thinking this whole opinion thing could go on for eons in the sense that one could say that once one gives an opinion then are they not open to an opinion of their opinion and so on and so on.

I had to read that a couple of times to get my tired brain around it. You're right and most people are open to opinions of opinions, but I think that what halts the whole process is when someone becomes angry and defensive for being given an opinion that they didn't like. It's easy to accept an opinion as just that, or to pose a question back to clarify ones intention or meaning of the opinion.

blah blah blah .. Shaddup Holly!

Thanks for your post Jo.

I'm glad that you are there to help your mom and make sure that she's being taken care of too. Caring for a dying person takes a lot from a person and we often don't get a chance or a moment to think about ourselves. So that's great that your mother has you to think about her

Be well!

Holly

Hello Daaling,

I know you are obviously writing about me. So fine. If I said that gay is wrong, that's an opinion. I doubt you'd like it, tho.

So sorry to have hurt your delicate feelings.

Wanna continue this fight outside???

Hollybaby,
May I ask why you posted this topic? What were you looking for?

AG

Hi SG,

I don't think that my posing the question has everything to do with you, your post made me think that sometimes asking for an opinion may warrant a response that the writer doesn't want to hear. So I'm just asking those who are interested in reading my post what their opinions are on the matter. I mean if everyone here thinks that only supportive responses should be given .. then I'm cool with that. But I can't honestly say that I want someone to tell me a bunch of fluff to make me feel better when they see that I am joking myself. I would want them to be honest with me.

But regarding your suggestion of my being upset if you said 'gay is wrong', I would have my opinion sure, would I tell you to go take your meds (assuming you were ill)? No, but I'd ask you questions to try and understand your opinion. Who wouldn't have an opinion - any topic is worthy of a debate as long as someone doesn't get offended, defensive and abusive about it. I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be free to give it if asked.

I'm sorry that you and others took my position as aggressive and confrontational, it wasn't meant that way. It seems that others messages were taken the same way about your topic. It's too bad that our opinions are only okay if they are the ones that you wanted to hear.

But not to worry, I don't have feelings (hence my need for a T) so there aren't any to hurt I'm all over taking this outside, perhaps that's where it should have been taken way back in the beginning.

Thanks for your comments.

Be Well,

Holly

AG ...

I'm looking for an answer on what is acceptable as an opinion. What makes one persons 'opinion' more valid than that of another person?

Holly

Holly,

I don't think any opinions are unacceptable or invalid - especially when the opinions are asked for. It's the way the opinions are expressed that could be called into question.

Communication is very difficult online, that means we need to be much more careful in how we word things. For example, I didn't necessarily disagree with all your opinions in response to SG's post, but I think it sounded rather harsh and it sounded like you were making a lot of assumptions in what she was saying, instead of asking her what she meant.

OW

Thank you for answering my question. My impression was that the topic was openly provocative but instead of jumping to that conclusion, I thought I'd ask first.

As far as your question: I think everyone's opinion and voice are valid and has a right to be expressed and heard. I also think that it's important that we are able to hear people who disagree with us. One of the valuable things about a forum like this is to get other people's insights into what is going on, and their perspective. Sometimes that means hearing things that we're not necessarily happy to hear or are comfortable hearing.

But I do think that it's important that when we provide our opinion, and especially when we are disagreeing or criticizing, it becomes vitally important that we are careful how we present it and that we are respectful about it.

I can honestly say that I don't have a problem with disagreement or even being called out on something. I think if you read some of my previous posts, you'd see this to be true. But I have to admit that when I read your first response to Spagirl (which you deleted), it very much came across as an attack, not just offering another opinion. I'm not saying that asking if you took your meds was exactly a well-tempered response, but when we feel attacked we tend to attack back.

I also believe that our right to express our opinion and say what we believe does not relieve us of the responsibility for what we have stated nor does it guarantee us a good response. You have every right to say what you believe; for example, I wouldn't think it was right to bar someone from the forum for saying what they believed. But someone reacting badly to your opinion doesn't mean they don't think you have a right to express it; it means that they didn't like it.

AG

Hi Holly,

i think if someone asks for an opinion they need to be able to accept that not everyone is going to agree with them. But they can disagree with your opinion without any problems, as long as no one tries to FORCE their own beliefs/opinions onto someone else. Agreeing to disagree is a beautiful thing, and a sign of two mature adults engaged in communication. If people are only looking for support/agreement then they should specify in their post. I also wouldn't want people to just tell me what they think i'd want to hear to placate me. That's not going to help anyone long term.

I agree with everyone else that online communication is particularly difficult, especially in forums such as this where emotions can run high.

And for what it's worth holly, i don't think you've said anything wrong in your posts, there were no personal attacks (which can't be said the same for other people). You were just stating your opinions which you are certianly entitled to.

Why do you say you don't have feelings? I see feelings written into your posts all the time. And that's a good thing. Don't write yourself off ok, you are more than you give yourself credit for (my opinion! )

LTF

I see unkind remarks from both sides. I am hoping that you two (Spagirl and Holly) can resolve it. It must be difficult to come here for support and advice when you may feel you need to defend yourselves.

I like you both in your own way. Truly.

Guys,

This really has very little to do with what happened in SG's topic. I have read other topics in the past where I shake my head and wonder why no one tells the person what they should be hearing. I've never posted to those topics because I didn't want to offend. This ONE time I think - I should say something that isn't seen by the writer and it turns into a brawl between two otherwise intelligent 40 yr old women. My mistake was that I should have PM'd it instead of leaving my opinion in the general forum for everyone to see.

That's why I wanted to know the opinions of others where this is concerned. Nothing nasty was intended by asking this question .. it is definately for my own information, and to find out where others stand on the issue.

OW.

Thanks for your reply. I had admitted that I was at fault for not presenting my message better in the original topic and apologized. In return I was given a rude remark for offering my apology.

I will certainly read things over before sending them out in the future to make sure that they will not be offensive or harsh. I'm a VERY direct, honest, tell ya how I see it kind of person and as I mentioned in my post above I don't generally respond to a post that might cause issue, but I made an error in judgment in this case.

Thanks again for your post.

Be well,

Holly

Hi AG,

Point taken

FYI: I had deleted my posts on her topic because they obviously offended her, you and others. I'm not an ignorant person and wouldn't leave them there to continue causing anguish to SG and others. It wasn't to hide what I had said because after X number of people had visited the site before I deleted, it was a given that it was read by many members already.

HI LTF

quote:

i think if someone asks for an opinion they need to be able to accept that not everyone is going to agree with them. But they can disagree with your opinion without any problems, as long as no one tries to FORCE their own beliefs/opinions onto someone else. Agreeing to disagree is a beautiful thing, and a sign of two mature adults engaged in communication. If people are only looking for support/agreement then they should specify in their post. I also wouldn't want people to just tell me what they think i'd want to hear to placate me. That's not going to help anyone long term.

You are very right here, well said. I have no problem with people giving a differing opinion, whether harsh or pleasantly put. I'm more likely to want to debate the issue with them than to be rude and insulting to in response. I'm learning through therapy and from people here that just because I deal with things in a certain way doesn't mean that everyone else must conform to my way of thinking or doing things (though it would make my 'real' life much easier LMAO) SORRY that wasn't intended to be directed at anyone one here, I said my "REAL" life.

You obviously didn't see my post to SG in her topic before I deleted them, it was a little harsh and some comments could have been written better. But thanks for thinking/supporting that my other posts have been acceptable.

Thanks for your last line too. I'm generally very standoffish and don't 'feel' things other than generalized anger and of course love for my immediate friends and family. Never a feeling of loss in anycase though. The stories and life experiences of some of you make me want to reach out to offer support and also to look for support (which I have never been able to allow myself to do) and I like that feeling it's something I didn't experience much of in the past. I can attribute these positive changes to my P and to you all here. However, I think in this case when I said I don't have feelings .. I meant that I don't get hurt by words or actions of others that have no significance to me.

Thanks for your opinions

Hi Jo

I too hope that at some point this can be resolved between SG and I. I don't hold grudges against people and don't plan to start now. Maybe when we meet outside we can have a better chat amongst ourselves and come to some sort of agreement to disagree and get along in the future

Thanks for your post ...

Be well!

Holly

Holly and Gang,

This has been an interesting thread. Holly, I wish you wouldn't have deleted your posts on my question. Frankly, I can't even remember what it said. But I do remember that the first one was pretty prickly, and that you did post a second one apologizing for any offense - something about one shouldn't write when tired, I think.

If you will read what I said on that topic on my thread, you will see that I agreed that you have every right to say whatever you want. That's your business, not mine. And, yes, after feeling a little attacked (especially when you don't know the whole story), I sent you a mild stinger just to make my point.

But I'm going to have to agree with some of the others in that being kind with our words is going to be the most helpful. Don't we have enough conflict just trying to figure out our perceived problems? We don't need this as a place to debate. In my case, I do enough debating in my own head. When I reached out to this community, it was for insight - kind insight. Maybe a bit of "I feel your pain, and everything's going to be alright". I'm not going to apologize for wanting to feel better by connecting with others. One kind word can work miracles - and it has.

SG,

Thanks for yor post.

I'll be sure that should I post on a topic related to or by you that I will keep in mind that you are here for ...

quote:

kind insight. Maybe a bit of "I feel your pain, and everything's going to be alright". I'm not going to apologize for wanting to feel better by connecting with others.

I'll be more careful and mindful in responding the way I did to any member of this forum in the future.

I hope that didn't sound bad .. it wasn't meant to if it was so don't freak out on me That was a joke .. hmmm, maybe I should just shut up now

I know it's against the rules but I'm going to sneak it in anyway .. SG - please check your PM box. No one saw that .. right ???

Be well,

Holly

Hey Holly,

So glad to hear you are growing in so many positive ways. Learning to look for / ask for support is soooo hard, especially if you are used to never receiving it. So i get how important that is for you, and I am happy for you

Oh, and I actually did see the other posts you are talking about and didn't see the problem with them at all - i just saw it as you voicing your opinion, maybe sounding a little harsher than you intended, but nothing to be worried about. And i was thinking some of the same things myself but bit my tongue . Hopefully it's all water under the bridge now anyway.

LTF

Holly,

I can appreciate everything you've said.

quote:

I'm a VERY direct, honest, tell ya how I see it kind of person

I am the same way "in real life." If someone asks me their opinion I am going to give it to them, straight up, no beating around the bushes. It has gotten me in trouble in the past but I am actually proud of that personality trait. I also have a tendency to get a little sarcastic at times, which is a trait I see you share with me. I would be lost without humor.

I just try to be a lot more careful on a board like this because you don't have other things like body language and instant feedback like you do in real life, and you don't know where the person is really coming from to begin with.

And PLEASE, if you ever see something I post that you don't agree with or that you have issues with, I hope you choose to respond. I think most of us come here for support, kindness, empathy, and the unique knowledge and experiences of each individual.

OW

I'm supposed to be on my way out to the Shrink already .. but this is always a more enjoyable place to be in the morning

LTF

Sorry for assuming you hadn't read my post to SG, you seemed far too supportive to have done so. I'm glad that you didn't find me to be too abrasive in it and supported my opinion. I've realised though that I was inappropriate and should have proceeded differently, expecially considering I had never exchanged notes with SG before and hadn't developed an idea of how best to talk to her. I know now

I think (hope) that all is okay now. But what I'm glad about is how many people here do want to hear an honest opinion. I just have to be nicer in my presentation.

Thanks again for your kind words and your opinions.

OW

Good morning

I think we would get along pretty well considering the traits we share. I'm the biggest smart ass there is (or so I've been told), or maybe they said I have the biggest ass and I just added the smart myself!

I promise to be harsh honest with you in all of my postings hehehe.

Anyway .. off to that shrink to talk about my need to be so outspoken .. maybe a little shock therapy this morning might help! LMAO

Have a great day and be well!

Holly