To give/receive or not to give/receive...

ksMember

Okay, I am going to share some things. So, here I go…

Just so you know, I am not good at this – especially receiving. I believe this is why I have been having such a difficult time trying to communicate with everyone. I truly believe and know that I do not feel worthy of anything positive happening to me and that goes for any support from anyone… I have slowly been learning to accept this. SG has been a very big help to me through PM and she has encouraged me to post when I can and that everyone here is very supportive. Well, I have seen that every day as I monitor the forum (for almost 6 months now). Sometimes, I read something and actually hit the reply button and start typing and then – I delete all my thoughts & feelings and close the reply request! I have done that DAILY!!! I have also spent times opening new posts – But as you can tell they haven’t hit the board… I express myself and then just hit delete before there is any chance of being seen.

To give you a little background… I do not do the friend thing. I work and have worked with some people for 10+ years and there is a relationship there but definitely not outside of the work place. I have family and even they have not been brought into the realm of friendship. I recently went to a retreat and made connections with a few people and am trying very hard (and I mean what an effort it is taking) to continue to develop these relationships. They are so supportive and understanding and that alone just scares the heck out of me! But I have been trying to allow myself to be responsive to these new relationships.

So here I am, trying to be open to the new and try to receive. I am scared to death of all of this. My T has been my ultimate supporter. Receiving from her has been another one of the hardest things for me to do but I am learning (slowly but surely)… My husband and my boys are my rocks. I know if these people were not in my life – I would not be here. I would be rotting in my grave… (Sorry for being so morbid.) The sad part is that I feel as if I have ruined their lives. My husband has spent 23 years wondering if he would come home from work to find me dead… My boys have held me time and time again while I sob that I do not deserve to live… How could anyone do that to their own kids…? So, as I said… Here I am!

I have been in and out of therapy, on and off of medication for the past 30 years… Sh*t, that is a long time and I am sure my allotted time on earth is definitely dwindling down. I have never had a connection with any T as I have now with my current one. I am (deep down) so hopeful that she is the one that is going to guide me through this. I want to cross the threshold with her, to the life that God intended for me to experience… Because, I know He did not intend for me to live my life in pain and despair…

My past was full of sh*t… And I know that every one of us has our own pile that we have to sort through. I do not believe that any one of us has had it worse than the other because we all experience our lives in our own perspective. What I perceive as pain someone else may perceive as discomfort and vica-versa. I don’t have a problem sharing my hurts but there is a time and place for that and right now, I am just trying to develop the ability to relate to others, to give and receive… I have had moments of joy; I guess I could count them on my fingers… I know that one cannot be ‘happy’ ALL the time and that is not what I am looking for. I am looking for contentment… Meaning, I want to take the good with the bad and I want to know that I have not thrown my life away and that I am doing everything I can to help myself and move forward without any more additional regrets. I’m so tired of playing this game of life, especially when there are no signs of winning! I want to WIN! I want to have more wins than losses – if that is possible! Okay, I will even accept a tie or two!
Now that I have written a book, maybe I should let you all off the hook. I do not know how to connect with others;

I need your help with this. I need to connect, I need to give and receive support. I honestly do not know what I am afraid of!

Thanks for listening (or reading to be literal)…
KS

11/23/0911:05 AM

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amazonMember

Hi KS
Just letting you know that I read your story and would like to offer some words.
But unfortunately I'm not the best at offering/showing support. I also had times that I would like to reply to somebody's post but I had nothing meaningful and supportive to say and I thought what I may say may have the opposite effect.
I suppose that's because nobody in my family tought me how to show support and care. My T is the person who is kind of teaching me this now (just came back from my session so I'm kind of flying high).
I would like to tell you: do write anything you like and don't bother, but I don't things these things work that way.
It's great that your posted your story here to share it with others.

As for the game of life... maybe there is no wins or loses. Maybe the point of it is just to play, to stay in the game for as long as possible since the game is the purpose, not the result...
It's great that you have wonderful family. It's great that your are fighting for yourself and for them.

11/23/0911:29 AM

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haloMember

Hi KS, welcome to the forum, I am so glad you took a leap and posted. One of the many things I love about this forum is the acceptance. I am sad to hear you have had so many troubling times. I am very glad that you have a supportive husband and children, they sound like such blessings. It is so easy to be down on ourselves as mothers who are in pain but loving them and being open with them and allowing them to comfort you is a beautiful relationship. They sound compassionate and kind and you have done a terrific job to raise them like that!

I think the conditioning from our childhood makes it so difficult to connect with others. I know that I am scared that I will be judged and rejected or abandoned. I live in hope, like you, that I will win and just like myself for who I am.

Also writing and deleting posts before you publish is very cathartic, just like journalling. My friend who is a T says that the more you say it and write it down, it loses its power over you.

Isn't SG such a gem??? I know she has blessed me so many times and I truly love her.

11/23/0912:35 PM

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strummergirlMember

Hi KS! I’m so glad you decided to share more about yourself. I’m sorry that you have had so much pain in your life. You are very strong to have endured so much sadness.

I’m glad your husband and sons have been there for you. I hope that you continue to find more healing through the relationship with your T. I’m glad you’ve found comfort in reading the posts here, and also happy for you that you’re reaching out and allowing us to “actively” support you!

It is encouraging to hear of your spontaneous responses to so many posts (you said daily?), even though you deleted them. I think maybe that is your heart trying to make itself heard?

I’m glad you’re not deleting all of them anymore. You have a lot to offer in terms of insight and compassion for others and I hope we continue to see more of them.

I can relate to your feelings about receiving. AG said in a thread recently that when we are used to not getting our needs met, any attempt to get them met later feels like we are asking too much (sorry if I butchered that, AG – I’m paraphrasing because I can’t remember what thread it was in

). Even when I accept help or support, there is something inside me that’s keeping a tally and feeling bad that I accepted it. Like I’m going to have to pay for it later eventually because I don’t really deserve it. This just became a little more obvious today in my session with my T because she pointed out that I’m even doing it with her. Sometimes I will even “hear” the help as being scolded! I have a lot more work to do in this area.

I can so relate to wanting contentment. Acceptance of what is. Not a high, but serenity and peace of mind. To truly be in the present and feel like no matter what, it’s all going to be okay. Like you, I’ve only felt that way a handful of times. I’m hoping that this therapy will clear away some of the emotional stuff from childhood that keeps me from being able to feel comfortable in my own skin. I hope your therapy does that for you, too.

By the way, remember how you suggested to me that I find a picture of myself as a child in order to do inner child work? Today my T suggested that I bring in a picture like that next time! I think it’s cool that I got that suggestion from you and her both. Kind of reassuring that I’m on the right track. So thanks again for the idea.

There are a couple of pictures of children in her office. One is a photograph of a child in a pool. All you can see is her face, but she’s looking up at something and the look on her face is so sweet and open. I asked her about it today. It is a photograph that a friend took. She had it framed and placed in her office because it reminds her of how we start out in life, open to life and love, and to being loved (“receiving”).

Then she pointed out the other picture, which is a poster of a smaller child (maybe 4 years old?) sitting on a box with a hat on, and the poster says “All children matter to God”. Today is the first time I noticed that the child looks really sad, and kind of dirty, and lost. My T said “left”. And I could feel the sadness trying to come up but I squashed it down again.

Progress, progress...keep moving forward. Thanks for posting, KS! I’m glad you’re here.

Hugs,
SG

p.s. And thank you both, KS and Halo, for saying I've helped you. I'm just squirming in discomfort, though, because I see myself as taking way more than I give. So I will try to just "receive" and say "thank you" for saying such nice things.

11/23/094:23 PM

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Attachment GirlAdmin

Hi KS,
Welcome, thank you for taking such a scary step and risking to come and post, I'm really glad that you're here. I am sorry for what you've been through and how isolated it has left you. When our earliest connections were so damaging we learn the opposite of what we're suppposed to. A healthy human being instinctly reaches out to others for comfort, for love and for connection to get their needs met, but when that reaching results in injury, especially if it does so time and again over a long period of time, we learn that moving towards others is a very dangerous thing to do and should be avoided at all costs. A lesson you seemed to have learned very well. I honor your courage in daring to fight against that fear and reach out.

I want to tell you that I've felt what you're feeling and the difficulty of actually letting people in and getting close to them, but you're doing the right thing. This is a very supportive place and it's a good place to start where you can experience good stuff happening when you reach out. Do that enough times and it will start feeling less dangerous until one day it will hardly be scary at all and feel like a good thing to do. You'll heal and be able to feel all the thing that you want to. I'm looking so forward to being able to walk with you on this journey.

AG

11/23/099:00 PM

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ksMember

I want to thank everyone for your responses...

Amazon, thank you for your response - especially since you don't feel like you have the ability to be very supportive. I do like what you said about the wins and losses...

Halo, my husband and boys are my oxygen! I guess sometimes it just does't seem fair to rely upon them SO much! Oh yes, SG is a gem and I also truly love her! I don't think I would be posting without her support!

SG, I really have responded daily to posts - for real! But my finger loves that delete button. That is pretty neat about the picture. Maybe our T's know each other!

I'm still carrying around my picture - I look at her thinking maybe one day her sad, lost look will change to a smile!

AG, I love reading your posts, you give me so much hope in a future. Thanks for the support. I am looking foward to finding the strength to share more.

HB, thank-you so much for your response. As for doing something nice for myself - I'll have to work on that one. I am looking forward to being able to receive some support and to give some!

Giving is so much easier for me. Receiving is so hard to accept. It was brought to my attention recently that I am having a difficult time accepting my worthiness to be able to receive good attuned care from my therapist. So, now I also want to learn to accept your support.

KS

11/24/099:34 AM

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jonesMember

Hi KS, and welcome from me too. Congratulations on your post! I love that you made it. I sometimes write posts and delete them too - and often comment in my head. And when I do post I do what HB said above - spend time feeling anxious about whether it was okay or not.

I wanted to share a 'win' I had elsewhere in life today. I've been (in moments of distress) reaching out to a few carefully chosen people in my life, trying cautiously to describe what I'm going through with therapy and trying to understand the effect of my past. It's been a bit horrible because most of the responses have tended to be kind of dismissive or just uncomprehending - sending me back round the loop of 'I shouldn't be doing this, it's a waste of time, so self-indulgent, weak...' etc

But today I had a TWO HOUR phone chat with a dear long-time friend I'd sent an email to. We talked about my family and her family, and learnt things about each other that we had never shared in *twenty years* of friendship. We have both been carrying enough shame about our dysfunctional families that we covered much of it up even to each other. Even though we were going through quite closely related things.

Our friendship deepened so much today - she did such a beautiful job of hearing me, and understanding that powerful, inescapable link between the past and the present. She told me her one memory of being in my house when we were teens and it was amazing, because it gave me some outside back-up that what I THINK it was like may be on-track (she remembers me being sent outside to rehang the washing I'd apparently pegged with too much tension in it - such a tiny thing but it matches my sense of having been in an environment of constant micro-management and correction - which was often coupled with bullying and rage).

And I knew as we were talking she was putting things together about her own family and its effect on her - we both were and it was beautiful to come to understand her better.

Anyway, I wanted to share it because I really related to your struggle to actually say something, anything in the first place. And I wanted to add to our collective record that sometimes, although it's hard, the giving & receiving REALLY pays off. I'm not sure I would have reached out at all without the great models for sharing I see all over this board. Including in your post.

Thank you....

11/24/0911:59 AM

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jonesMember

KS, I feel a bit oafish posting about friendship in this way when you had expressed the pain of not being able to go there. I feel very lucky to have my friend & wasn't trying to brag - my unhappinesses just work in different ways to yours, I guess. I feel for that pain you write about and I am really glad you are taking steps to try to find your way out of it. I hope we see more of you on the board.

11/24/097:09 PM

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ksMember

Jones,

I didn't even make that connection. So don't feel bad.

KS

11/24/097:45 PM

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chronicallytransferredMember

Hi KS! I'm glad you posted even though it was a struggle for you... the first leap is the hardest, I think!

quote:
I do not do the friend thing.

I actually LOL'd at this when I read it-- not because I'm an asshole, mind you

-- but because it's something I can hear myself saying! I used to think that 'friends just weren't for me,' but I'm learning that isn't quite true! I think the retreat was a huge step for you!! Good Job! One thing that came to mind when I was reading your post was try not to forget that you have the right to choose your friends. I used to just "take the leftovers" and befriend anyone who was nearby, then I realized that I don't just have to be available for everyone... if I'm not fond of someone, I don't have to be around them, EVEN IF they like me! Just thought I'd throw that out there as you're finding new people to surround yourself with.

quote:
My husband and my boys are my rocks. I know if these people were not in my life – I would not be here. I would be rotting in my grave… (Sorry for being so morbid.) The sad part is that I feel as if I have ruined their lives. My husband has spent 23 years wondering if he would come home from work to find me dead… My boys have held me time and time again while I sob that I do not deserve to live… How could anyone do that to their own kids…? So, as I said… Here I am!

First of all, I'm really happy that you have your husband and your boys... I'm glad that you're still here!

Secondly, I actually grew up with a mom who told me things I didn't really need to know... like "if you weren't here, I'd kill myself," "if you ever die, I'll kill myself," "don't leave me," etc.... I also spent many a night holding her, cleaning her up, and literally picking her up off the floor (after she passed out from painkillers). All that to say- my life certainly is not ruined!! Do I wish my mother had done things differently? Sure. Do I wish I hadn't heard/seen some of those things? Sure. But here's what I think is amazing about this KS... my mother did kill herself... her kidneys failed after years of prescription drug use. She never had the chance to heal, come to me as a mother and say "you know, I wish I could have handled that differently. I understand that it was alot for you to handle, and I'm open to listening to your feelings about it if you'd like to share." But look at you! You are well on your way to healing... like you said, "here you are!!!" That is enough in this moment and you have so much to fight for! You can be healthier and show your boys, and your husband, that you want to know them in their appropriate roles, and that you are an individual with them, or God forbid, without them. That would have been one of the greatest gifts my mother could have given me... it's one you can still give to your family, and I believe, in time, you can and will. They are not ruined, nor are you.

quote:
I do not know how to connect with others;

Lastly... for what it's worth, I think you're doing a pretty damn good job.

-CT

11/24/098:21 PM

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ksMember

CT,

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry your mom put you through all of that.

My boys are 18 and 22 - I guess they really aren't 'boys' anymore...

I spent their childhood years, trying to be supermom and never letting them see my feelings, especially the negative ones. I never wanted them to know that their mom would rather be dead... I started relying on my youngest when he was 14 - mainly because my oldest became very rebellious and my heart was breaking daily. My youngest would hold me and tell me that he would never do those things... Well - hell... Now that he is 18 he has become the jerk and my oldest has become my support. I am praying that my youngest will come to his senses soon!

A year ago, I fell apart and couldn't stop crying - cried for days... My husband had to put me in the hospital and I was there for a week. My family would come see me every other day as allowed and I hated the pain I saw in their eyes... My boys do not know all of my past, but they are aware of the suicide attempts I made.

I am experiencing pre-empty nest syndrome on top of all my other sh*t... I have to let them go (grow)...

CT, I really appreciate all that you shared and I really would like to continue talking with you...

KS

11/25/0912:26 PM

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mrsprufrockMember

Hi KS...thanks for posting, it's nice to hear from you.

Your story makes me feel a lot of empathy for you...the feelings of wanting to go away and feeling guilty and ashamed for thinking it when loved ones care and need you. It's very hard. And so much more so for you, you have a family and a husband, at least I only have my immediate family, no one of my own to worry about. But it is the main driving force behind resisting and not doing more damage to myself-my family and friends. How I feel doesn't really come into it.

I hope you can reach out to everyone on here cos they have a lot to offer...and I'm sure you do to. I, personally, don't mind how you feel and how low you feel..the darkness of the feelings you want to express...if you don't want to post PM me. And from someone who has left the nest in the last few years, I love my mom and wish I could see her more often. I love going home to see her and spend time with her. It makes me appreciate her all the more. I'm sure your boys will feel the same. It's not an end, it's just another step on the journey...hopefully there's a lot more happiness to come from your relationship with them.

Take care,
Mrs. P

11/30/093:52 PM

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ksMember

Mrs. P

Thank-you so much for your response.

quote:
I, personally, don't mind how you feel and how low you feel..the darkness of the feelings you want to express...

I can get pretty dark and I am always afraid to share that because I have scared a few people before - not intentionally of course! It is just very natural for me to see the dark side of life. Probably because I have lived in it for so long - a good 35+ years! I think I just recently began seeing a shimmer of light in my darkness - but it is still darkness none the less.

quote:
And from someone who has left the nest in the last few years

From your responses, it definitely shows that you are wise beyond your years! I can only hope that my boys will continue to want to be close to me and that they do not allow the women in their lives to keep them away.

KS

11/30/098:08 PM

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chronicallytransferredMember

quote:
Originally posted by KS:
CT,

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry your mom put you through all of that.

My boys are 18 and 22 - I guess they really aren't 'boys' anymore...

I spent their childhood years, trying to be supermom and never letting them see my feelings, especially the negative ones. I never wanted them to know that their mom would rather be dead... I started relying on my youngest when he was 14 - mainly because my oldest became very rebellious and my heart was breaking daily. My youngest would hold me and tell me that he would never do those things... Well - hell... Now that he is 18 he has become the jerk and my oldest has become my support. I am praying that my youngest will come to his senses soon!

A year ago, I fell apart and couldn't stop crying - cried for days... My husband had to put me in the hospital and I was there for a week. My family would come see me every other day as allowed and I hated the pain I saw in their eyes... My boys do not know all of my past, but they are aware of the suicide attempts I made.

I am experiencing pre-empty nest syndrome on top of all my other sh*t... I have to let them go (grow)...

CT, I really appreciate all that you shared and I really would like to continue talking with you...

Hey there KS. Sorry for the delay in my response... I had Turkey Day in another state and have been trying to catch up at home/work/school from being gone. Ayyyyeeee the laundry!

Anyway, I'd love to keep chatting it up with you! But be fairly warned of the two following things... 1) my posting is often sporadic!!! I vacillate from being very busy to being depressed or to just needing to hang out in lurkdom for awhile! 2) I am only a year older than your eldest... I just turned 23 actually. So just beware that you're talking to a young'n...

I'm sorry that your boys' rebellion is so difficult. Things were pretty backwards for me, so my rebellion consisted of me... going to church! MMMMUAHAHAHHAHAHAHA I'm awful, I know.

Seriously though, I imagine it can rough on a parent as their child pushes them away and makes their own (shitty) decisions. It sounds like you know that you have to let go though, so that's a start.

My mom was hospitalized a lot when I was growing up... only a few times for mental health reasons though.... well TECHNICALLY only a few were for mental health reasons, but if you consider her motivations and the things that caused all of her "accidents," then ALL of her hospital visits were for mental health reasons. Most were substance abuse related... you know, trying to fake something to score some pills and then leave AMA. I did know of her suicide attempts (as early as the age of 8) and I very vividly felt like I was responsible for making sure she didn't kill herself... mostly because she told me as much. So, while I have some things in common with your kiddos, our situations are very different. I did not have a father that shielded me or protected me... in fact, he welcomed the fact that I took care of my mother so he didn't have to! Anyway, I think that's enough for now. It's nice chatting with you. Hope you are doing well.

-CT

11/30/0910:01 PM

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ksMember

CT,

quote:
Anyway, I'd love to keep chatting it up with you! But be fairly warned of the two following things... 1) my posting is often sporadic!!! I vacillate from being very busy to being depressed or to just needing to hang out in lurkdom for awhile! 2) I am only a year older than your eldest... I just turned 23 actually. So just beware that you're talking to a young'n...

You are just a babe... But sometimes, us old fogies can learn something from the young'ns...

And I totally understand the being depressed part and also the "lurkdom" (I spent almost 5 months lurking)...

I have to say, my suicide attempts were pre-marraige. Well, for the most part. Some say my anorexia was an indirect attempt (which is true to a degree) and I suffered with that until just about 10 years ago.

For the most part, I have never been away from my boys. I think just recently I have been taking time away from them and I have a hard time with that. I always worry about not being there for them, that maybe one day they will need me more than I need them.

KS

12/1/095:50 PM

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