Oh my goodness DR you sound like me!

B2W

No hugging. Once it starts, it never seems to end well (from what I have heard).

I am not a huggy person, as in receiving them. I give them pretty freely, especially to Boo.

Inside CPs have huge needs for hugs. It got communicate to T pretty early on, and after talking it through with my H and him being comfortable with it and T reading an article I sent him on touch which he said was "just how he's always felt" about the topic, he formally approved of safe touch in therapy. But, despite getting his welcome/approval for it, it did not happen for several months after that and not until a CP came out stuck in a flashback or something. And, actually, I think that was just her holding his arm/hand.

Anyway, flash forward to today, CPs hug him during session all the time. It makes me feel awkward, but usually I just poof away. He does also hug ME goodbye and it feels like we are playing hug "chicken," because he will just keep going, thinking it's nicer for me to take as much time as I need, and I am just sitting there dissociating, trying to "survive" until he ends it, because I have some weird rule thing about not initiating approach or withdrawal in anyway.

Anyway, slowly, over time, I've learned to dissociate less during caring hugs from other people (T first, then some others I feel safe with) and take in support a little better. The idea of being comforted is still really hard for me. And constantly there is this fear that if I finally give in and surrender to the fact that those CPs' needs are my needs and I start feeling desire instead of terror about being hugged and comforted, that is finally when T will be, "OK, you're done!" and graduate me from hugging.

He just tells me that God's love isn't like that. I really do believe him that he's not going anywhere and the care he offers is genuine and safe, so I keep practicing learning how to accept it, and maybe someday, I can take those lessons out into the world.

I guess it might be different for me, because other than giving affection to people and caretaking, I'm not a very physically affectionate person. The only person I am really affectionate with in a receiving way is H. Not my parents, not my older siblings, not most friends. I am just now starting to realize that a few people who are caring and safe actually make me feel comforted when they put a hand on my shoulder or an arm around me. Mostly before, even the nicest people like my pastor's wife hugging me would make me literally blank out.

Anyway, I think I've learned more about the disorganized attachment stuff going on inside through tolerating the confusion that sitting close with my T or holding a hand or hugging brings up in me than any other experience in therapy. It's like exposure therapy to me, and we have a few inside jokes about it, because he is so positive about offering it and I am so obviously pukey about it at times.

OMG the pair of you are writing about me.

I have known my T for a long time and touch was always a freaky thing for me. For the past 6 months or so we will end each session with a hug. It is a deliberate, end of session closure thing.

It is a firm hug and sometimes I ask for her to stay there longer and other time it is quicker. Sometimes it makes me cry (so I pull away immediately)as that it a bad thing for me...

I worked out that I usually don't remember the hug or the touch and T was in a habit of saying nice things when she hugged me - but I never remembered any of it so I asked her not to talk. All I remember now is that she has cold hands on my back! That shows progress as it means I feel and notice and remember something.

It has been a great thing for us. It makes me feel human as even tho I can hug people, my kids or husband I actually don't feel anything or have any emotion or meaning attached to it. So with T it is about imprinting feelings of touch and care into my brain.

I don't remember being hugged as a child and have never felt comfort from a hug - I don't think I had much human touch - so hugging T is about trying to fill some of that and to relearn what it feels like.

There is a downside. I am in the middle of a terrible rupture with T and we are just barely scraping along. The last 2 session I saw her after I cancelled weeks of sessions I didn't want to hug, touch nor even be with her but she asked each time and yes I had a choice, but I didn't really want to do it either. I didn't want to leave there and then wished I had hugged her so I did it. I really felt nothing.

Then I saw her again this week and it was a heavy session and I did hug her and try to hold the hug and feel something.

I figure that if I never hug her then I never get the opportunity to practice and to learn, so we keep trying every single session whether it was a good or bad session to hug and hopefully it is predicable, consistent for me and one day I will feel something and imprint it.

On the other hand if we are walking somewhere and we have incidental touch - that freaks me out and I have to scrub my hand or whatever touched her. We both always notice it and laugh, but I tell her that it felt yuck.

She has asked whether she should touch me when I am dissociated or upset and I said that while I think it would help, i think i am more likely to have a traumatic response to a random touch and then freak out. So we are both too scared to try it.

somedays.

My T hugs me every now and then. The first time arose very naturally at the last session before Christmas. As I left she said can I give you a hug. I was a bitembarassed, but we hugged and i left feeling WOW T hugged me.
Since then it has come up in therapy theat I don't actually hug anyone except my children and husband.
Once she asked me if she could give me a hug when we were both still sitting down and I did not answer. She said you don't have to if you don't want. I said it is not that I don't want it just feels weird being asked.
Now she waits until we get up and go to the door, then if there is a holiday or I have been upset or have had a difficult session, sher says can we hug. I say yes and I like it.
I have not yet felt brave enough to ask for a hug myself. But I think I could and it would be ok. So far she has always offered when she sees i need it.

ps. I still don,t hug anyone else!

So strange. All this time I thought I was taking good care of myself by holding therapeutic boundaries and not muddying the waters by avoiding touch. Ugh! Apparently, no stone will be left un-turned before all of this is over. I find this struggle and its implications so incredible.

Tas - Thanks for responding. I guess we'll both learn as we go along.

anon – I am glad your CP's are getting hugs from T and that you are learning to take-in caring hugs, even if you can't absorb the comfort just yet. I can go through the motions of a hug and not feel anything or blank out too. I am guessing there are parts of me that also have a huge need for hugs but I am denying them because of the shame associated with having needs. If I can find a way to separate myself from those parts with needs then maybe I can give them permission to show their needs to T. For now, it is all about what looks/feels appropriate. I am hoping she will understand that if I say my frightened part needs a hug then she won't think it is really me who needs it. Somehow, it's okay if the need is young and vulnerable but not old enough to be self-reliant. You mention disorganized attachment and I had forgotten about the styles and I think I most identify with that style.

SomeDays – I like how you are the one to determine how long the hug will last with your T and if you want her to say anything during the hug. I am sorry you have no memory of being hugged as a child. I don't either. It proves we are not only wounded by how we are mistreated as children but also by what we did not receive! I appreciate you sharing this perspective:

quote:

I figure that if I never hug her then I never get the opportunity to practice and to learn, so we keep trying every single session whether it was a good or bad session to hug and hopefully it is predicable, consistent for me and one day I will feel something and imprint it.

Catalyst – I think I will keep talking about it with my T and keep in mind it's about how I feel about it. Maybe that will help me come to some understanding of myself and of my past. I don't remember my childhood so I don't know if I received comforting hugs or not. I do know that my need for affection was used against me through sexual abuse and the fact that I have Complex PTSD makes me assume I received no emotional support while being abused. I can also see the importance of the practice of setting physical boundaries. I didn't mention this but I am just now thinking of my pdoc. She initiates a hug with me after each session and quite honestly, I would rather she didn't but I let her because it seems like I would be unkind or prudish to say no.

quote:

I was furious with my T today but still hugged which helps remind my system that... I'm angry but it's with someone who shares a mutual loving human to human connection with me. I like it as part of my therapy.

I can't imagine being willing to hug while feeling angry with anyone, much less my T, but the way you explain it makes sense. You mention your body responds well to touch and has met that need through other means. This makes me wonder if it is possible I don't really have a problem and that I don't really have a psychological/emotional need for a hug.

quote:

I find hugs help me feel where I start and end and brings me more in to my body also so I feel the boundary of myself during a hug too.

I get that. Before I hugged the P.C. I noticed gathering myself up into one body before I accepted the hug. I didn't let a young feeling accept it for fear of melting into it. We hugged as two separate people and I paid attention to how it felt to have her arms around me and for the shoulder of her soft blazer to touch my cheek. I will see the P.C again on Monday and will have to decide if I will accept another hug from her.

Starlight – I thought of my oT when you mentioned how your therapist asks if she can give you a hug. Most of the time, we hugged because she asked or told me she thought I looked like I needed one. We did such intense, intimate work together that looking back it seems like a hug would have been a natural thing to do. I guess I need to apply that in the current relationship to see if I can normalize it. I hope you are able to take in the hugs you are getting and will one day feel courageous enough to take the risk and ask for one. Your T has already proven to be safe. But, I totally understand if you are not ready for that. BTW: I like your signature.

deeplyrooted

Good thread

I can never remember being hugged by my mum, so I was determined to hug my kids to give them that feeling of security and care that I never felt. They are naturally quite huggy too now, even as grown ups.

I remember clearly the first time several years ago that T hugged me; I was so shocked that someone could hear all the things I was telling them AND hug me. Now we hug at the end of most sessions (I think ) - for me that hug conveys a mutual understanding of what has passed between us and been said in the session and reminds me that it is ok to talk and that she is alongside me in all of it.

I know other Ts may or may not hug; every person is individual so I think there is no right or wrong. I think you have to do only what feels right and comfortable; for me it feels natural and helpful

Just my thoughts,

starfishy

I agree with what Cat is saying here. I do experience these needs as very compartmentalized, as in some parts feel the need for affection and others feel the need for distance. In the end, that's all "us" having an ambivalence about that need, because it was rejected or led to abuse in the past...normal ambivalence. My T accepts that it doesn't "feel like" my need, because I'm more on the avoidant side of things (comparatively to other parts inside), but we always discuss and work through how that stuff does belong to me. Starting to accept that is part of what has allowed me to feel connection and comfort, because by accepting those needs are mine, are real, are valid, are a part of what makes me human, allows me to make sense of approaching safe people to meet those needs when I can't meet them all on my own.

So, I think it's important to honor your experience, if you really feel like, "I don't want a hug!" while feeling like somewhere deep down there is part of you that you have trouble relating to who does want a hug...I mean, to just verbalize it in exactly that way. And hopefully, by talking through all of that with your T, you can understand those other parts of yourself and accept belonging together with them. I don't know if this made any sense, because I'm kind of sick and out of it right now...

Had to log on and comment and say Starfishy that your post really spoke to me.

I have been relieved to see my kids being able to hug and be hugged. It has been a secret project of mine since each were born. And I wanted them to hug for their own reasons - and for different emotions and for a hug to have no strings attached.

However - I am still unable to hug them with feeling - i do it because they need it. It is harder to hug as they get older.

I think T offering a hug to me whether it is a good or bad session, whether we are getting along or not, ie it having no strings attached - and doing this very consistently - shows that she is going to be there no matter what. I don't have to 'be a good girl' to get care.

Somedays

Thanks somedays. I think I got an occasional hug for being good or achieving, not for just being me and certainly not as a comfort. I still don't get a hug from her, although she does hug her grandchildren.

Hugging your kids for now because you know they need is is a good start, don't feel guilty about it if the feelings are not there, you can't force things but I reckon in time it will get easier My children have both left home now and the first thing they do is hug me tight when they see me - it's as natural as anything because they were loved and hugged as kids. My son went through a non-hug adolescent stage and I respected that, but now as a young adult he is very comfortable to come back home give and receive a hug from his mum

I agree that T hugs are good because they are the definitive 'no strings attached' hugs. Good or bad session, happy or sad session, my T hugs me and I feel understood. It helps masses and works for us. Other people may not want or need a hug I know; I guess it's very personal to every therapeutic relationship.

starfishy

I am glad I mustered up the nerve to start this topic and am especially glad to receive such thoughtful feedback. I am learning a lot from all of you. I love to hear how so many of us are putting an end to neglect and the dysfunctional cycles and showing affection to our kids and watching them grow up and be able to show healthy affection to one another and to their own kids. I have read about how an adult will overcompensate for what they lacked growing up and I can definitely see the fruit of that in my own life.

I hadn't thought about not feeling worthy of a hug. Of course, I haven't thought about feeling worthy of a hug either. The shame has been so pervasive that I haven't thought that what I share with my T will add to my unworthiness. I am already feeling unworthy. One point I am gaining from all this discussion is that if someone is still willing to stay in a relationship with me even after knowing some awful stuff about me then I must be acceptable (hug or no hug).

Catalyst, your comment got me thinking about a recent text I sent to my T. It was full of words of appreciation. That sort of dialogue felt very risky to me and I had not done it before. We talked about physical touch at this last session, I told her that my text was like giving her a hug. She agreed. Maybe words of affirmation are a better way for me to start giving a hug to my T. I can't just go through the motions, I have speak what I think and feel. Maybe this kind of dialogue will stir up a desire for some physical touch, like a hug. Physical touch has always been tainted for me and I could easily say it means nothing when someone gives me a hug because the integrity of my body never mattered to anyone. Sure, I could go through the motions and make it “look” normal but I don't think having someone touch me will confirm they love me.

IDK, it seems I am pontificating from the adult intellectual side of me right now and this has nothing to do with the felt needs of the fearful, angry, ashamed, neglected parts of me. Maybe I am getting side-tracked.

You are right, anon, we cannot meet all of our needs on our own. We need to be in relationship with other people. I sure hope you are feeling better.
Starfish, we can learn, even with our warts and all, that we are acceptable. I am glad you are discovering that truth in your relationship with your T.
I like how Somedays said it with such firm declaration, “I don't have to be a 'good girl' to get care.”