Catalyst-- OMG, do we have the same therapist? Mine was on a high horse about some bs emotions vs. thoughts today, too! I'm so sorry-I know how invalidating that feels. I am currently in the mode of that's it I am done with you and therapy because you basically just made me feel like a fool for baring my soul.

Sounds like one in the same, Ainsley. (Nice to meet you, by the way).

I haven't felt this misunderstood in a while.

I'm sorry, Cat, that your T wasn't able to validate your feelings. Mis-attunement feels terrible. I find it so scary. I feel like my T isn't there any more or at least not the T I thought I knew. I also hate that she uses the word good to describe how you were. My T is incredibly good at never saying good or bad inn any context. He using helpful, useful, productive and when I treat those words like bad or good he corrects me. I would find any description of me being good as a contrast to all the times I was bad too.

So sorry Cat. I have no words. I had the same session as you and Ainsley did today. So misattuned and not paying attention to what I am telling him. Having his wife on the other side of the wall today did not help in the least.

sending you hugs
TN

Nice to meet you, too, Catalyst.

I think the hardest thing about it is the drive to therapy and feeling like you just want to open up yourself to this person because you know that they'll get you, and then when for some odd reason T doesn't do that, it's like a hard punch in the gut. That's how I feel today after my invalidating session, and I am sure yours evoked the same kind of feeling. I am very sorry you had this experience. When you feel this angry with T, what do you usually do? Do you email? Call? Or wait it out? I am trying to decide. In the past I have written the "I'm DONE" emails. But, I haven't done that in a while. I always catch those now. This is the closest I have been in a long while to wanting to write that. But, I am trying to hold back... I'm trying not to get carried away because of her whole reaction. If I react, I am reacting from emotions. Ah!

I want to eat my entire house and then lay in a ball on top of the rubble and CRY.

I can't even explain.

((cogs)) My T uses those words too.... all I hear is 'good' 'good' 'good'. I'm sorry you feel like your T isn't there anymore. Mine feels far away and distant and evil and that she hates me... I just feel intense, by tomorrow it will be sorted out perhaps. I feel out of control right now.

((TN)) I'm sorry you had a bad session today too something in the air maybe... sorry Ts wife was there today. I almost walked out of my therapy twice today and if there was someone in another room I Was angry at I'd go yell at them. So consider her mentally yelled at by me for making today over all just a BIT HARDER TO STAND!

((Ainsley)) Yes... when they don't get you and you feel exposed it is the worst. Right now I'm convinced my T doesn't even care to help me with it. She does, but I intensely don't feel that way. I called, told her I was pissed off, she called me back we talked briefly but my transference wasn't going away. I don't think I've ever threatened to quit on her, or said I was done - it's good to write that kind of stuff though, even if you don't send it. It can feel empowering.

((Hollow)) I feel like what you're describing when I feel alone... and I did feel a bit alone A lot of it I felt like I was trying to walk through the woods and wanted to go at my own pace and my T pushed me over, grabbed me by the hair and pulled me out of the woods.

I dunno. I can't eat because I want to binge, my head is spinning. I just haven't been this angry in a long time and I know it's about this slowly crumbling defense mechanism but.... I can't LOGIC MYSELF OUT OF IT

I know she's not intending to do what I feel she is, but I'm just so invalidated and angry right now. I'm ready to say ENOUGH to myself, to the world... that I don't want to try to meet anyone's expectations anymore except mine, and they can all shut their damn mouths and I will do what I want. T was "helping" me process through dealing with trying to leave this "perfection" defense behind but being a huge arse about it.

It's good to BE mad... but I have nothing in place to fall back on nothing. I feel... exposed and I feel like she gives ZERO CRAPS ABOUT IT.

Dfkajdlfjsfkjs I just want to hit something.

Hopeless, hopeless, hopeless.

Sorry you all are going through so much right now.

((SD)) I hope you are doing okay this week.

I'm just... frustrated, tomorrow it's bound to go away.....!! (right!?)

Thanks ((Catalyst)), trying to find stability. Really trying to grab hold of life and feel things. Doesn't help that I miss a sesh next week due to public hol and then the week after T is away for a week. She can't leave the country though as I still have her passport I always go wobbly when things change.

Ah man... I hate losing sessions to holidays... I'm glad she cannot escape the country. Keeps your T 'grounded' so to speak.

Cat, I just reread my comment from earlier today and I'm sorry for the confusing disjointed mess I made of it. I was in a hurry because I am going away for the weekend. Actually now I've arrived.

When I said it feels like my T isn't there I was describing how it has felt in the past when he hasn't understood. At this moment I am oddly hopeful about my relationship with my T. I had two difficult sessions this week but we are making progress. It is clear to me how much he is trying to understand my feelings and fears. He was even willing to admit to feeling his own anxieties and acknowledge out loud that some of the things he has said may not be a simple or straightforward as he thought. Sorry to hijack your thread with my unusually hopeful thoughts.

I am sorry things are difficult right now. I know how much you and your T care about each other and the relationship you have built. I hope that soon she will be able to hear and and understand you better.

hugs cat. its horrendous when our T's fall out of step with us so badly xxx

Oh Cat

I really understand. I had that same misattunement and feeling of anger - well rage in my case - and I did act it out and T termed me.

I just wanted to tell you that I know how rubbish and invalidating and painful it feels but to give you some hope that it does pass. I'm getting there slowly and the rage has mostly dissipated and I won't let these powerful feelings beat me. I'm sure your T will at least try to understand what she did and help you to process it. Please tell her how you've been feeling. Just don't act out and scare her like I did mine.

I'm reading a book on mindfulness and self compassion at the moment which I'm finding very useful. You lean towards painful emotions and breathe into them, just accepting that they're there and that they're painful but not trying to resist them, coming back to focus on the breath if it gets too overwhelming. I'm finding it useful.

Hope the next session goes well.

tygr
x

Catalyst,

Wanted to see how you were feeling this morning after waking up? I know sometimes a good night's sleep can help, but at other times it makes no difference at all. I hope it's the first one for you. We both had rough feelings about being angry about our T's care yesterday. Those are some powerfully raw emotions that require some extra self care and support. I just wanted to let you know that it's okay to feel how you are feeling and that I'm offering my support. Just thinking of you.

I didn't get to see the original. I am having trouble understanding what happened from reading the "rewrite" but it does sound painful. My old T the one who quit with me constantly felt dismissive.

((cogs)) hehe, sorry to mishear you! It is so nice when Ts own their part. In the thick of it, I can often not hear them owning their part, I'm not sure if they do and it's not enough or if they don't.

((GE)) Yes, it's distressing

((Hollow)) I think your description was lovely, also. Sleep does help. I took several cat-naps yesterday.

((tygr)) I know it was so hard with your T and the misattunement there. I think it was huge what happened with you and I'm so sorry. I had a similar catastrophic break with a T that lasted 6 months, and even still it haunts the relationship. My T had just told me about something she read on mindfulness that reminded her of my situation right before... she didn't understand my situation. Argh! I meditate often, and truly it is wonderful, I'm glad you've found the mindfulness work useful. It really is... it's a lot of what I do in my ED treatment. I hate and love it.

((SP)) Thank you

((Ainsley)) Thank you for checking in on me, that is so sweet. I will update below... it was a good sleep, and I didn't even hold a lot of the spinning anxiety I usually do. I still felt frustrated this morning.

((turtle)) the original was the same as the one that's there now. I edited out swears and repeated info. I've almost left this T over feeling dismissed by her before, at the start of our relationship. It was really hard to work through because I'd feel dismissed talking about feeling dismissed also.

UPDATE:

Well. I'm thoroughly confused after seeing T today.

Let me say first that I was able to communicate better what I was thinking and feeling, and had going on inside me at the time. It wasn't something I could communicate to T. T let me know that she didn't know there was all that other stuff going on, but that she really wanted to challenge a belief I had that, which was partly what I was upset about.

Have you ever... been talking about something and then all of a sudden what you were talking about 10 minutes ago you finally finish that thought? That's what happened. T said she understood why I felt that way.

Now, here is the great part... T tells me that at this point we're far enough along in our work that she's going to start challenging my beliefs more. I'll spare you the 15 minute conversation it took for me to understand that little bit of info... but, it boiled down to T isn't going to "nurture" me through thoughts of being hated but rather push back pretty hard and examine the where it's coming from WHILE in the moment of it.

I said... "So, basically you're telling me I'm going to be pissed off and frustrated with you more?" .. The answer? "Yea!" She said that she has been nurturing and is changing that now... so my brain sort of halted at... Does she not CARE? She told me we can take it to the edge of it feeling like criticism (my parents) but that it's not the same, because it's a healthy relationship that her and I have... and she isn't there to criticize or judge.

I asked... "What did I do that you can't be nice anymore? I'm worried that I'm losing any nurturing [I think I still need that]" Though my brain still hasn't fully bought this yet she gave examples (challenging me) of how she was still being nurturing yesterday despite being a giant bitch. Which is true, she offered a hug, to come sit with me, she spoke nicely... That's hard to experience though with her words AND it was also a miscommunication yesterday in conjunction with her "new approach" that was hard.

She calls this processing, and while I get the concept... I'm pissed off because I don't WANT TO ... but... those are just my defenses saying they don't want to change because that means vulnerability which means hurting which means the whole world ends, nobody loves me, I go eat worms, etc.

Then my concerns went elsewhere and I said "Well in [insert random abuse situation here]... I've felt I need to process this but because I was told I was doing "good" that that would be "bad"... and I'm trying to think about it and I'm angry during [insert random abuse situation here] I was told what to thing and do and believe... are you going to just argue with me when I try to tell you how awful, evil, dirty and terrible I feel?"

Legit question, right? If you're going to challenge me, are you also going to challenge my feelings. ( WTF figuring out the difference between feelings and beliefs is hard).

So T confusingly tells me that no of course she's not going to fight me on those things [feeling dirty, awful, bad]. Or flashback stuff. Or something... I don't even know. She says if I'm 'in it' [processing the trauma stuff] that... if I start getting dissociated and stuff like that we'll have to pull back but otherwise we can go there.. (???????????????)

All I know is I'm not sure how safe my feelings are in there right now. I'll learn though. T and I have a really good relationship, hence why I can feel angry and through the roof and it usually takes a session or two to put us right back on track. Does this make ANY SENSE TO ANYONE? Like when it's safe? I know I just have to march through it and know that because the relationship is loving and stable that it is, will, and can be safe... ?

Anyway, I have a feeling I'll be making a permanent and often updated topic about this BS right here for the next few months. Everything is moving too fast. It feels like T is saying 'alright, you've been stable for two weeks lets get you out of here immediately before I throw myself off a bridge having to ever see you'. I see a large picture, but it's not integrated in my head yet... I need the weekend.

I want to call and ask/say... Am I allowed to ask for reassurance about us? Should I start calling you less? Do you want to get rid of me? Should I do anything different at home? I'm concerned I'm going to be abandoned. I'm scared I won't do it right. Am I hurting because I'm just being resistant? What else is involved in this change in your approach? I don't know what to expect. I'm just scared, so scared.

I'm just a pile of confused tears right now. I'm okay with T I just... I know the goals... just what am I losing in order to gain this new bullshittery challenging stuff? A good T WILL challenge and WILL, as she said, "sit on my issues" (she said she was with a T once and she was feeling all swirling and overwhelmed and couldn't understand anything he was saying and he said to her "That means I'm right on an issue"... I felt that same way yesterday, and even now a little today).

Sorry this was long, I'm not sure if being challenged is my issue. Can't feel worthless w/o being argued with now. Fabulous. I'm having a bit of self-harm urges right now... so I think I am mad at myself? Mad at the world? Scared? I know my T would ask what the pay off would be, or what I could do instead... I don't know? I'd feel better? Better from what? What is better?

(((catalyst)))

quote:

so I think I am mad at myself? Mad at the world? Scared?

How about mad at your T for unilaterally deciding to change a big part of your relationship? How about mad at your T for pulling the rug out from under your feet? You are supposed to be able to trust her and suddenly she seems unpredictable and scary. Of course you still need nurturing (and I’m pretty sure your T isn’t going to stop nurturing you altogether, but I can see why you would think that.)

I’m not saying that your T is necessarily wrong about this being the direction your therapy should go in. She knows you far better than I do, and from what you’ve written about her, she seems like a good fit for you and like she is competent. But, my god, of course you are reeling from this! I was reeling from it just reading about it. I don’t know what your T was thinking, why she wouldn’t discuss it with you first, tell you what why she felt this change would be beneficial, and get you on board with the change. Give you time to ask questions and get used to the idea before gradually implementing it, instead of just saying “this is how it will be from now on.”

I’m also not entirely sure just what your T plans on challenging. Maybe it’s something like if you say you felt dirty, wrong, gross, etc., that’s fine, but if you say that you are any of those things, she’s going to push back and make you look at those beliefs? Or if you say that you think she hates you, instead of reassuring you that she doesn’t and doing things to strengthen your alliance, she will try to get you to examine the feeling you have of her hatred, and maybe try to tease out some threads to explore with you. That doesn’t sound too bad, although I don’t think anyone likes being challenged. I do think your T needs to go slowly with this. I hear such confusion and anguish in your posts about “good” and “bad” and I think your T pushing too hard on this runs the risk of hurting you more.

((Cat))

You know something I've learned with my T in recent times is that one way they show love is by challenging us where it's necessary. It's part of personal growth and that is what any decent therapist is committed to with each of their patients. So even though it seems counter-intuitive, sometimes challenging IS the MOST caring thing a T can do.

I doubt you will lose all nurturing per se, I suspect T is going to start challenging that harsh inner critic that makes you miserable and keeps you hidden away behind your defenses. It is SO scary to let those defenses go and be seen because the fears of abandonment and rejection, along with the shame and humiliation can seem unbearable. But there is enormous healing in letting those defenses go and being accepted and loved in our shamed and humiliated state and not be abandoned or rejected. It will help you so much to see at a deep level that none of your early trauma was your fault.

i think sometimes feelings do need to be challenged when they are coming from a place that is increasing your suffering and misery. And a good T would pull back if you were getting dissociated because it opens you up to influence to the parts of yourself that don't have your best interests at heart and want to keep the status quo humming along.

there is no "right" way to do this Cat, only the way that works for you and unfolds for you naturally and organically.

"Better" is what you'll find at the end of this Cat. And it is worth all the work and fear

Hugs xxx

((Hollow)) I'm pretty confident my T would take as long as it takes, she's told me a lot of her clients don't move to where we're working for one reason or another but that with everyone she meets us where we are at. She will challenge some of my neediness (and she has) as it relates to my parents (blood from a rock there).

((Nannabee)) Thank you! Actually... I am a little mad at my T. It did feel like she just left me in the dust on my rump without an explanation. What she plans on challenging is exactly what you were saying... it doesn't SOUND too bad, but yea... it's not fun, especially when you're stubborn, and I am very stubborn (and like to be in control..... that's going to be the kicker)

((GE)) I think being able to push people in the way my T plans to more, and has is really a sign of a good relationship. Even if on the inside I feel emotionally horrified and hate being so conscious of 'her therapeutic decisions' (whenever this happens I remember oh yea we have this alliance but I keep forgetting she is a treatment provider and has a job to do ugh and is looking out for my best interests ugh and thinking how to help ugh when I'd rather just not think of all that separation right now). If I can ever have an intimate (like romantic) relationship in the future where I could communicate to someone like this (and I do with friends, the challenging stuff, but it takes special people and very special relationships for that to work). Anyway... I agree with you.

T called for a final check in before the weekend, I asked if I was still allowed to call her (yes), if I could still ask for reassurance she doesn't hate me (yes), what I need to do because everything is changing (nothing, because not EVERYTHING is changing, she's always challenged me and just said we're at a point she can do that more).

But, I asked it in my Cat way... which was "I can still call you right?" and "If I think you hate me, do I have to call and tell you how f**king awesome I am now so you won't argue with me? Sometimes I just like to hear you don't hate me." T told me, like I said above, that she'll give me reassurance of course and that I stole the words right out of her mouth, "you are f**king awesome" she said. Very cute.

If I wrote how I actually speak to my T on here more often you'd know how truly insane I am.

I told her I was thinking that feeling there was a change was freaking me out, and she let me know that it is a MINOR DIFFERENCE, that I just may notice that sometimes we get to where we are right now/yesterday. And, my T is just a button-pusher as it is... I don't get away with much. I have the human equivalent of autocorrect with T sometimes, I will say something then immediately I'm like "okay, that is a projection.." then I will re-state it in another way. I even do it in my thoughts by myself. It sucks and doesn't suck.

I do, and will likely continue for some time turn anything that interrupts what I perceive as my safety, routine, flow... whatever it is and get extremely protective. Dig the bunker and get your helmet... ask questions later. We'll see how it goes I'm sure I will get up and down in triggers and emotions this weekend but I have some solid, grounding, things planned that should help.