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I didn't want to do another updated update so I decided to start a new thread.

Today is the day and tomorrow is the date, if that makes sense. My abandonment was on a Thursday but the date was the 12th. It's been a rough day and luckily I saw my T. This morning I took a bouquet of flowers to a quiet spot and left them there. Like I was visiting my own grave. But I could not say a prayer... I could only say that I am sorry you died and I hope one day you will finally rest in peace.

I saw my T this afternoon. The session is kinda blurry right now. I don't remember what he was wearing which means I was dissociative at times and distracted. I do remember his eyes though and that he ran his hands through his hair twice. I think I made him tear up today for really the first time that I have noticed. It was when I told him about bringing the flowers.

Then he told me that the meeting with oldT is all set for Monday... except that he does not think he has the extra hour for me. He has another client that he cannot reach because she is on vacation. he said he would try to reach her but he could not promise anything. I burst into tears and kept saying that I didn't think I could just get up after only an hour and walk out. How can I just do that? I remember when I had the other session with him and that other T and after he left I sat and cried for 20 minutes without even saying one word. Just sobbed and sobbed and then we still had another 30 minutes to talk. I am really scared that I am going to disintegrate and fall into pieces and I'm going to be all alone and have to deal with this all alone... again.

When my T said he would try to move the other client I got even more upset saying I didn't want to be mean and bump someone else that needed him. He said I would not be bumping them... he would. I said.. same thing. He told me not to worry about it. So if any of you ever get moved around and normally you have a very reliable and trustworthy T... then you know it was for someone like me... in crisis and that the circumstances are serious. I will never look at another appointment move in quite the same way.

We talked about strategy for the meeting, about what I need to say and plan to say. He told me he would do his best to see that I get what I need from the meeting even if it means holding the licensing complaints over oldT's head. He told me he would open the door to another office so if I get there and dont' want to bump into oldT in the waiting room I can wait in the other office next to his. He is going to send oldT the agenda later today.

He told me I have to calm down my inner child and take care of her and I told him I don't want to and she is always causing trouble. He told me she is just really scared and if I can't help her then that is what he will do. He will take care of her for me. He was very kind. I told him how I felt abandoned the other night when he didn't answer my email. I thought I had become a patient he wanted to be rid of because I was no longer perfect or "good". He said that I'm an excellent patient but not perfect... no one is perfect. And that he is totally committed to me and would not abandon me. I told him that I knew that this was all mixed up with oldT's behaviors and the past and the Anniversary of everything.

We talked about attachment and again he told me that his being attached to me keeps me safe because if he is attached if he hurts me it will also hurt him and he would want to avoid ever doing that. Then we talked about transference and attachment and how it differs and overlaps.

I left him feeling okay but shaky. He told me he wants to hear from me this weekend and to either call him or email or both. He wants me to stay grounded and calm and to work on the piece I'm writing so I can read it to oldT.

I may be back later with more thoughts. I'm still feeling fuzzy.

Thanks
TN
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TN - I'm sorry that you have to deal with such a painful anniversary, but so glad you have worked through the upset with your T as you approach this difficult confrontation with OldT. I'm glad you were able to find him still exactly who he has always been to you, despite your fears. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that he would move another client for you. My T always makes sure I get his last session of the day (almost without exception) just to make me feel safer. While that is something that benefits me and something I really appreciate, it is not something I am doing. It something he is doing within his own schedule, because he feels it is the best possible care he can give all of his clients. When I have asked why T does so much for me, the late sessions that I prefer, the extra time, the free double sessions, the phone sessions to break up my week since he only works in my area Monday/Tuesday, the texting and emails, pushing the insurance company for my SCA, do you know what he said? Because it's needed. As if it's that simple. It really should be, but there has never been a time in my life where someone would do something for me just because they saw I needed it, saw they could meet that need, and wanted to do it. Maybe it's the same for you. My T said that sometimes you feel called to meet someone in that way, to offer that sort of care, and if that's the case, it is never too much, never a burden, and God always gives him the strength to do it...so there is no ulterior motive like I've always experienced in the past. Just seeing me struggling, wanting to help, feeling enabled to help and doing it. So, long-story-short (too late!), I think your T sees a need, feels called to help you, has the ability to do so without compromising his care for his other clients, so of COURSE, he is going to do all he can to make it happen! It doesn't seem like you are feeling bad about it, but I know how hard it is to think of someone doing something just for me (especially if it affects others at all). So, just some random thoughts along those lines.

quote:
We talked about attachment and again he told me that his being attached to me keeps me safe because if he is attached if he hurts me it will also hurt him and he would want to avoid ever doing that. Then we talked about transference and attachment and how it differs and overlaps.


This is interesting to me. I always get quite panicked when my T seems like he genuinely cares for me. I want him to, but it scares the crap out of me too. I like your T's way of looking at how that dynamic can actually make things safer. I am curious to know about the differences and overlaps between transference and attachment. I have my own ideas around it, but being as both you and your T are bunches wiser than I am on the topic, if you're ever in a place to share, I'd definitely be interested to hear.

(((hugs)))
Yaku, thanks for your thoughtful response. We discussed the difference between transference and attachment. I said they are two different things because with transference you are transferring feelings or emotions or memories of a person from your past onto your T and since I never had that good attachment I can't be transferring those feelings. He said that was correct. That need for the attachment (and nurturing) comes from my not being able to pass through my developmental stages in an appropriate and healthy way. That is the attachment part. The need to experience those stages that I was denied. But the feelings that come into play that "surround" the attachment, the anger, the fear, the mistrust, the pain... that comes from the transference from my oldT and my parents and others in my life who were abusive or who hurt me.

That made perfect sense to me and seemed to clarify things in my head that I had been mulling over for awhile. Hope that helps you in some way.

I just wanted to add a note here....

I feel like lately I haven't been giving much to the Board and to those who need help or are struggling. I'm really sorry that I have been so buried in these anniversary feelings, struggling with this upcoming meeting with OldT and with work issues.... I just ran out of steam. There are a lot of new posters that I would love to help and chat with but I just don't have the focus or energy these days. I just feel like lately I've been taking a lot from others and not returning the support as I would like to. Hopefully, this meeting will help me put some of the pain and trauma to rest and I can really start to heal with my wonderful T, who is so darn smart and caring and committed to my recovery.

Thanks for understanding.
TN
TN


In the car, on the road typing from my iPhone so I have to be brief. So glad t is so solid and strong and he is holding you ever so tightly. Also glad that you advocated
for yourself re the double session. Hopefully you will find some peace soon and thank god all these anniversaries will have passed.

Loved yakus. T's answer to why do you do all this. What a beautiful answer.

Xoxoxoxo tn

liese
TN, the effort it takes to share and detail your journey is equally (and wonderfully) helpful as when you generously support others. Please don't believe for a minute that you are *taking*...it's all giving.

Monday is going to be a difficult day. Frowner

Even though you can handle it on your own, no matter how awful, I'm glad your T will be there with you.
Hi True North,
I will be thinking about you on Monday. As difficult as it may be, you will hopefully get closure with your old T while having the support of your new T. I don't know the whole story with the licensing and everything. However, I know what is is when a T hurts you especially if you have transferred or become attached. It's excrutiating pain. I'll be rooting for you. Perhaps even I will get some closure from my situation by hearing about yours.
Hi Again True North,
Well I just read through the history with T2 and it is so dead on what happened to me down to the lie that it's better for me if he doesn't respond. Your posts brought me to tears and had me rethinking filing a complaint or reaching out for closure. I am pretty sure I am done with it- radical acceptance. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.
quote:
I feel like lately I haven't been giving much to the Board and to those who need help or are struggling.


(((TN))) you actually give HEAPS of yourself by sharing so much of what's happening in your life - the 'not' so good and the 'really' good!! So much of what you share resonates around the world and touches so many lives and gives insights to many of us, so quit with the "Ihaven't been giving" - by your very nature, you are a very big giver!!!
Got to go now!

Morgs xx
Hello True North
I will be thinking of you and this confrontation on Monday (if I have read things right) The bit about your current T offering to look after your inner child was soo moving to read, in fact the whole post was. You said you felt you weren't giving much to others - you are so wrong about that by posting and sharing like this you give those of us new to therapy so much help, insight so THANK YOU Big Grin
((((((( TN )))))))

Thinking of you today, on this most painful of all the painful anniversaries you’re going through now. I’m glad you did lay the flowers, that’s a fitting symbol of the mourning you are having to do.

That’s great news that the meeting with OldT is finally fixed – though I expect you will now be going through all manner of agonies anticipating it Frowner From the sounds of it, your T really is going to pull out the stops to make sure you are not alone after that meeting – I hope that if he does manage a second session time for you, that you won’t feel guilty about it.

I find that really interesting that your T said he is attached to you – have you sensed that yourself or is this something new to you? I expect you are not in a very good or secure place to take that in at the moment, but I hope it has sunk in on an unconscious level and you can feel stronger about what you have to face on Monday with OldT.

I want to wish you all the best with the piece you are writing to read to OldT – if you need to, would it help to throw ideas about here, as a sort of ‘dry run’ of experiencing saying what you need to say in public? You know we all support you 100% and I feel confident speaking for everyone there Smiler

Sending you lots of love and good wishes

LL
(((((TN))))))

Thinking of you today on this sad anniversary. Hoping you are doing okay and I am so glad you have such a wonderful and amazing T to help you get through it.

I have anxiety just reading about this upcoming meeting, so I can only imagine how you are feeling actually being the person who went through all of this with oldT. I have followed your story and went back and read your old posts about this that you posted before I was even a member here. Its fair to say that I feel emotionally connected to your story now and I am really concerned about your meeting and I truly hope that T is able to bump the other client so you have that extra time with him. I really hate to see you do this meeting and then have to go home after (or back to work or wherever). I feel like the meeting would be a bad idea if you don't have the extra hour with T afterwards. So even though it would mean making you more of a priority than the other client who has that appointment time, I think it is absolutely necessary on that day due to the circumstances at hand.

((((TN)))) thinking of you.
(((TN)))

Sorry things have been so hard lately. I'm hoping that your meeting with oldT Monday will really be what you need in order to move forward in your journey of healing.

Please don't feel like you aren't giving enough here. We all come and support when and where we can, and understand that we can't all always be here continually supporting each other. That's how life is.

I too thought it was interesting that your T said he was attached to you, and that because of the attachment he wouldn't want to hurt you because it would also hurt him. That is some insight into a good therapeutic relationship that I think is very beneficial. It made me think about my own relationship with my T and how some of what she has said has alluded to her own attachment to me (she calls it a "connection", but I think attachment is a better word, although I am sure she wouldn't use it because it might make things feel too personal). For the longest time it had me worried that she had bad boundaries and I am finally able to see it for what it is and accept it, cherish it, and feel safe because of its existence.

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. That in and of itself is helpful and we all know where you're at and are here to support you as you go through this struggle. Best wishes for Monday, and take good care of yourself over the weekend.

MTF
I'm thinking of you today, TN- I haven't been around at all, but I wanted to drop by and say hello and offer some support. I'm so glad to read that your T is holding so steady and being such a help and support through all of this. And I'm glad that you are holding steady (although feeling wobbly) and continuing to reach out to your lovely T for the support you need to find closure and some measure of healing from what happened. It touches me very much that your T would tear up like that when you told him what you did. He really understands, doesn't he..bless his heart.

Thank you for expalining so generously about the difference between attachment and transference, I read your answer to Yaku's question with great interest. I had (have) both attachment and transference with my T and the two got very confused for me, besides his own confusion in dealing with it, so it helped me tremendously to read that.

I am thinking of you and sending loving thoughts as you journey along. I'm praying that Monday will go well, and you will find some measure of peace from the meeting.Thank you for continuing to share so generously with us here.

Much love,

BB
Wow... so many people on this thread to thank! And to give big hugs

I feel so cared for and warm from all these wonderful comments. I got through today pretty well. I did drive by oldT's office (no one is ever there on a Friday) and I sat in my car parked in the same spot I was that day when I looked up and saw the cop standing there. It was so quiet today, except for the echoes of the past. I needed to go back there and experience being able to do so to face what happened to me there. I hope that doing these things will enable me to process that trauma and let it go. I was sad to think how our relationship ended. There were times it was very good and healing. I know I"m in a better place now but I still mourn the loss.

Well, the UPDATE I have to post here is that this afternoon I got an email from my T telling me that he was able to move his other client and we now have two hours for the meeting and my processing it with my T. Of course I was happy to hear this but it also terrified me. I was scared to have this need met by my T. I know that sounds crazy. It's scary enough to ask for what you need but when you do, and it's really important to you, and then it gets met...OMG it really scared me. I keep thinking that I don't deserve this or why should I get what I need? It is confusing to me. And yes, it's something I will need to talk to my T about once this meeting is done.

Instead of emailing him back I paged him to thank him. I told him that saying thank you seems so inadequate. I offered him my second session next week for this client or anyone who he may need to fit in and he say that is not necessary. That he is coming in early to see the patient who gave up her slot for me. I am really trying not to feel guilty for having him do that for me. And yes, I know that it's his boundary to keep and he didn't have to do it and I had resigned myself to doing this in one hour and then maybe having a phone call from him later in the day to settle me down again. I had timed what I need to read to oldT, I made a schedule of how long for each item on the agenda, but honestly, I knew it would be difficult to fit it all into 55 minutes. This takes some of the pressure off me to fit everything into a short time.

Also, while I'm waiting for OldT to arrive I will have the use of another unused office to sit in so we don't have to "meet" in the reception room. I realized tonight that there is a window in this office that allows me to look down into the parking lot so I can see him arrive. For some reason, seeing him first, and unobserved, feels safer for me. It's been such a long time I'm not sure how I am going to react to the sight of him.

Beebs.... I have missed you around here and I hope you are okay. Please update us when you can. I am glad I could help you with my T's explanation of attachment and transference. I'm sorry your T was so confused in dealing with it which also confused you. OldT was kinda like that too. Thank you for your loving thoughts and wishes.

MTF...I am glad that the attachment explanation also helped you and helped you to understand better the relationship you have with your T. My T tells me that there is an attachment on both side but his is much less intense than mine and is boundaried. He is aware of his feelings and and monitors them so as to not interfere with my therapy and growth. In other words... no matter how attached he is to me I'm not getting invited for dinner!! Darn. I'm glad that my sharing my journey has helped you and others. It is so gratifying to read that.

I'm going to post this and continue my replies in a new post.

TN
TN,

I am SO glad that your T was able to move the other client and that you will have the second hour. I really think that is vital to this meeting going well for you and feeling like you have time to regroup. I'm also very relieved to read about the second office because (I hadn't even considered) sitting in the waiting room with oldT would just not be good in any way most likely. Your T is taking such good care of you.

Oh and on the moving the other client issue, I've been there as well and it's tough. I've had my T move clients two or three times for me due to crisis and every time I feel guilty about it. However, it is her boundary to keep and I'm sure she knows which clients will do well with that and which won't.

Anyway, please keep us posted and know that I will be thinking of you this weekend and especially on Monday!!
Thanks STRM...nice to see you here. Yes, my T is taking such good care of me and I am so grateful for him. It almost hurts that he is so good to me (and scary).

As for moving clients... I plan to tell him to feel free to move me around if he ever needs to do so. I will never look at being moved in quite the same way. I now know he only does it when someone else is in dire need. I completely trust his judgement on this (unlike oldT who would cancel me to go on personal fun trips).

Thanks for thinking of me.

TN
TN,

So glad that T was able to juggle things around to get you that hour after the meeting with OldT. try not to feel too undeserving or indebted to him or his other clients because of that. Really, it would have been unprofessional of him to hold the meeting with oldT without giving you that hour immediately after to process what happened given the history and pain involved. I believe it it was his responsibility to arrange it that way....otherwise I believe it would have been very dangerous for you. If he couldn't have done that, I think he should have called off the meeting until he could get the two hour time slot. It is absolutely necessary and I am so happy he was able to do that.
Liese, thanks for checking in from the road and for your kind words.

DF...thanks for thinking of me. I need all the support vibes I can get for Monday. and I did get that extra time thankfully.

Hi Hemlock... I have tried to share my journey here with the hope that others will find it helpful if they are struggling in similar ways. Thanks for the good wishes and welcome to the Board.

Noble Daughter... you had your own T abandonment too and I know you understand this pain. It's so confusing at times. Thanks for rooting for me and I do hope what happens with me helps you in your situation too. Thanks for letting me know that I'm not alone.

SomeDays...welcome to the Board. Glad reading here is helping you. I look forward to getting to know you.

Morgs...such lovely words to read. thank you. Thank you for responding and checking in. I hope you are doing okay.

JustMayBe...it was so comforting to hear my T tell me that he would care for the little, young part of me that gets really scared. I tend to abandon her because I am always angry at her but he understands her and is very kind and gentle and she responds to him in a very good way. I'm glad that you are learning things by being here with us and participating on the forums.

BG...you made me burst out laughing "Old Jerk Man" Thanks for keeping me in your thoughts. I do have a very strong sense of my T being with me and of how much he cares. He has really gone out of his way to give me this meeting that I have waited for for so long. I know that he delayed it (sometimes frustrating me) because he wanted me to be strong enough to handle it without being further damaged by old jerk man and now I know he believes I'm strong enough. That is a good feeling. I do understand that he wants to get this done because he wants us to be able to put oldT away and move on with the work that I need to do. He told me that he sees glimpses sometimes of the person I am meant to be and he is anxious to see more of her and to work with her. And when I look at him I see the enormous potential that is there for both of us in this relationship. I am actually looking forward to getting started on that.

LL...thanks for thinking of me on this awful anniversary. It's just about over now and tomorrow is the anniversary of getting that termination email. Having my T so close to me and knowing how hard he worked to help me with this meeting has made the anniversaries easier to deal with. It was important to lay the flowers... it was something I needed to do. It's hard for me to notice that my T is attached because it'shard to take that in. I tend to avoid his feelings because they scare me. On some level I always worried that oldT would care too much for me because I knew he couldn't handle it and would run... and he did. I guess what I see with T now is that he is genuinely happy to see me, he meets my needs (if he can), he seems genuinely caring and interested in what I say and even though he never gets defensive... I know I hurt him once or twice when I got upset and attacked him for some things... which he did NOT deserve. It was my transference with oldT at work.

LG... you don't have to be anxious for me now because got my extra time thanks to my wonderful T. thanks for thinking of me. I am doing okay. I am working on my "speech" and feel relieved that I won't have to leave my T right after the session. That has made me calmer.

Yaku... hugs to you too.

I'm off to sleep now. Thanks again everyone.

TN
So glad you got the follow-up session after the meeting with Old T. Your T is really seeing to your needs and I know that is REALLY scary. It terrifies me when my T does such things. But, if you ride through it and see that the world doesn't end from accepting his unconditional support, it will be such a good memory to lean on in the future.
((((TN))))

I'm thinking of you on your anniversaries this week even though I'm not on the board as much. I'm glad your T has worked out a way to have 2hours with you and old jerk man (lol). I hope you can get what you need from that meeting but I'm sure it will be painful and difficult. I'm glad to hear you are concentrating on what you want to express because who knows what the response will be.

Love,
Di
Thanks for your wishes UV and that gorgeous picture. I feel more serene just looking at it. I love the ocean and always have.

Hi Morgs, don't know if my T is willing to travel to Australia to discuss caring in psychotherapy but he does work with interns here and has for many years, teaching them about so much of what he does in therapy with patients. Maybe one of his pupils will find their way down under and spread the word.

Yaku those are wise words. I guess I do need to ride this out and experience that my T is not angry with me or annoyed or irritated that he had to move another client and start work early that day. And that because I got something I asked for God won't strike me dead for it. This is so hard for me to believe.

incognito...I know you are away on vacation so thanks for checking in. It's really important that I am able to express all those thoughts and feelings that have been repressed and stuffed down for over a year now and I'm afraid if I don't write it all down I will dissociate and lose the opportunity (like I did at the last meeting last September... and I was so angry at myself for allowing that to happen).

The problem is that I read it out loud, timing myself and if I read it straight through with no questions/answers then it takes at least 20 minutes. Will I keep everyone's attention for that long or will they both fall asleep??

I'm starting to get scared.

TN
quote:
What a wonderful T you have there (((TN))). Could you possibly get him to give some lectures on 'real' caring here in Australia???



Morgs you are a dag. BUT - as I was reading the wonderful news in this thread just now Ithought "GOD I wish TN's T could come to Aus and have a chat with my T". She is lovely - but her boundaries are too tight and she doesn't give me enough of who she is.

It will be great for you TN, to we in that other office. Make sure you get there early though - or at least think through what may happen if you do see him first.
quote:
As for moving clients. I plan to tell him to feel free to move me around if he ever needs to do so. I will never look at being moved in quite the same way. I now know he only does it when someone else is in dire need. I completely trust his judgement on this (unlike oldT who would cancel me to go on personal fun trips).


TN, the above comment has been rattling around in my brain Roll Eyes I’ve happily moved appts to meet another clients needs and would hope it would be reciprocal if needed!! BUT this comment, “unlike oldT, who would cancel me to go on personal fun trips”. Shit – I read this and nearly threw up!! My T warned me 2 weeks ago that she might be taking some time off and then yesterday cancelled my next ‘fortnightly’ appt to take a week off to go to Bali with one of her daughters and warned she might extend the trip!! Next appt is now in 3 weeks but probably won’t happen!!! I have many borderline traits of which she’s totally aware of course, but when I burst into tears (so embarrassing) we then were launched into a discussion on ‘dependency’!! I ‘feel’ like I’m dying inside here – of course, that’s rubbish but I’ve really started to open up to this lady who I will still love even though she lets me down and instead of ‘upping’ the sessions for a while, she’s put me at arm’s length even further!! Sorry to hijack your thread but this really got to me!!
Gosh Morgs I'm so sorry if that comment triggered you. It was thoughtless of me when so many here are struggling with Ts on vacation.

Let me explain what I meant further.... my oldT would cancel appointments a few hours before I would see him to do stuff like go to ball games and movies. Stuff like that. Not because he was leaving on vacation, although he never gave me much notice of that either and would drag me along saying "well, it may be I'm leaving on Monday or maybe Wednesday or Thursday" and I'd say "well T could you please tell me when you are coming back, when you would be at least back home" and he'd say, "no but I will make you an appointment for ..." and that was that. It was so hard for me to deal with and made me feel so "bad" for wanting to know where in the world he was. It was hard to hold onto him when he would just disappear into the atmosphere.

I'm sorry you have such a long wait. Please keep posting here about how you are feeling. I do think it would help. Start a vacation thread. I think you will have lots of company, as it's August. Typical shrink vacation time.

Hugs
TN
Oh sorry back TN, I didn't mean the comment triggered me - well it did - but it's not a problem!

quote:
my oldT would cancel appointments a few hours before I would see him to do stuff like go to ball games and movies.
Good grief - that's is truly appalling!!! Mine would never do that, she's far too professional!

TN, thanks, I'll think about a thread!! Take care. Morgs
Thanks LL and Jones. Your thoughtfulness warms my heart and gives me strength to plow ahead.

I'm putting the last changes to what I have written to read in the session. I'm battling stomach cramps which I normally only get before boarding an airplane! Yeah I'm nervous.

It's funny but I was watching Oprah's new network tonight and they were talking about her very last show. How she produced it and how she wrote the dialogue and the way she decided she wanted it to go and how it would end. It sort of reminded me of what I'm doing. I'm producing my last session with oldT and I have a vision for how I want it to go and be. I am not expecting much from him and I am planning with this in mind. He may decide to man up to everything and if that is the case, then it's a bonus but I'm not counting on it.

In the end.... what I really want and need to happen is that my T, my wonderful, strong, caring, T is proud of me and proud of how I handled things. That is what matters to me.

Oh and that I get to give Tdog lots and lots of hugs. I hope that he will remember me. I have missed him so darn much.

TN
Dear TN, I wanted to delurk to send you some wishes for luck and peace today. I am a long time follower of the forum and thought that I would start posting once I am in therapy (not there yet). But I have read your posts and cried a lot for you, but also for me because I could relate to so much that you wrote and I probably also understood what you meant when you said that the person you used to be had died. Today, it felt right to come out and wish luck to someone whose story has touched me so much (and also given me hope) and let them know that I was thinking about them.


ps: I hope that none of this makes you feel uncomfortable as I would definitely not want that.

pps: And while I am it, and without wanting to hijack this thread (I will introduce myself properly later on), it also feels weird to not say hi to everyone else and say that I am deeply grateful to them for sharing their stories with so much courage and grace.

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