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It's late and I'm wrung out but I wanted to give you all an update on my session today with newT (this is newT 5 who is the last man standing Big Grin).

It was a good productive session despite my crying through a lot of it. NewT is a very smart, well informed, experienced T who has good background in dealing with patients who have had bad experiences and bad endings in therapy. So he gets all the feelings I'm experiencing. He even made me laugh a few times through my tears. I do think in some ways I challenge him but not in a bad way... and he is up for the challenge. He told me if I EVER see or think that he is acting fearful of me that I need to bring it to his attention immediately. He knows that I was always concerned that I was too scary for my other T and he does not want a repeat of that.

When I first walked in he told me he only got my message this morning and that he does not check his vms over the weekend. He gave me his cell number to call and also told me he has a beeper and to use it when I need to. He said if he does not respond in 20 minutes I need to beep him again. He encouraged me to email him as well. He seems very open to outside contact which is really what I need. So with that out of the way he wanted to know about the letter my T sent me.

I backtracked and told him about the email I got last week wanting to terminate my son. Then I told him how I ran into T in the parking lot and how we both waved and then he evidently wrote the letter to me on the same day. I have to believe that seeing me again was directly responsible for him reaching out to me in the form of this letter. Then I let newT read the letter and he said... he is praising you to the heavens and even in the other emails he sent me since the termination he always says wonderful things about me. NewT said that it does not add up because if he was saying such great things about a patient he would not terminate them ... especially abruptly. So he is convinced that my T has very strong, even romantic [his word] feelings towards me and they scared him and he panicked and didn't know what to do. He was afraid of his emotions and attachment towards me and maybe even afraid of my feelings towards him too. So he ran. And this is why he is avoiding me but yet sending me emails saying such nice things.

NewT said that he does not know if we will ever get the truth from oldT but that I should write him a letter, basically telling him that I know how he is feeling and to talk about the countertransference and to ask for a meeting or two to process what happened and to really help me to transition away. New T said that oldT would not want him in the room and he does not think this will happen but that "I" have a good chance of getting a meeting or two. NewT wants to help me write the letter but he told me to work on it now and we can discuss it. I had told him what I really wanted was to hear the truth from oldT and to tell him how I feel. I want him to know that I know how strong his feelings are for me, that feelings are just that and won't kill or hurt us and are only unethical if we ACT on them... which neither of us ever did. In some way I think it would be a relief for oldT to know that i know so he is no longer trying to hide from me and it's all out in the open. Unfortunately, it would have helped both of us greatly if he had pursued supervision to help him deal with his feelings.

On some level I still blame myself for what happened even though newT says I did nothing wrong and I could not control my Ts feelings. I never wanted my T to care too much for me because down deep I KNEW if he did he could not handle it and would flee from me and I was right.

We talked about how important psychodynamic therapy was for me and my issues and how he didn't feel I would be served by CBT and he understood why I would always resist that approach when my T tried to use it. What was interesting was that he told me the school where my T trained was basically of a behavioral type education and not psychodynamic at all and my T had no idea of this method nor did he understand transference/attachment (which was quite obvious). He said that he really should not be treating adults at all.

At one point we were discussing relationships and I piped in with some comments about right brain connections etc and he smiled and said "can I get you to stop being an intern for a few minutes?" Big Grin I laughed at that. He said he should send me down to the Psychoanalytic Institute in our city and they would just love me there. I would be their star patient. That was nice to hear.

I also asked him a personal question which he answered (nothing serious) and he said he was happy to answer some quetions because I needed to build trust with him after being betrayed by two Ts. I had told him about D and what she did to me in that meeting and he was truly appalled by that. Shook his head as if to say "I cannot believe this". I also confessed to him that I read his dissertation and he was totally fine with that and we discussed it. It's very hard to throw this guy and he is quite open and direct. I like that because I am too tired to try to read in between the lines right now. Of course we are not doing much "therapy" just talking about what happened to me with oldT.

I told him I felt i needed to go back to see oldT for a few sessions to try to process things and that I felt it would help me to move forward. He said that oldT would not want HIM in the session because he's pretty tough and would demand some answers and would strongly defend me (nice feeling that). I told him I needed the truth from oldT and not some silly excuse that I needed a trauma T. He agreed in that without this closure it will take me about one year to get back to doing any real therapy at all. I told him that I feel I have regressed to 3 years ago before I started therapy. Only difference is that my mom is deceased now. But I have slippped into all my old ways and behaviors. Partly I think because I am angry with the new me who drove away my T and caused all the problems. I was changing into a new and better me but I have lost her/killed her off. I don't want to know her because this is what caused my T to leave me.

And so he told me I should write a letter to my T and confront him about the countertransference, get it in the open and request some meetings to do a proper transition. My T had written he wanted to make the process as smooth as possible. Now he needs to step up. I'm not really sure what I need to say and I may email newT for some guidance. I sort of spaced out in the session while he was explaining it to me.

He said that unfortunately he does not think I will get any more than that one termination session for my son. That part is quite sad for me. I told newT how I blamed myself for costing my son this relationship which was so important to him and to me. I should never have done therapy with him. NewT said that this was NOT a dual relationship and actually very beneficial for my T to see both of us and work with the dynamic of seeing how we interact together. So the claims of oldT that this dual relationship is aproblem is not valid at all... but my T claims that my son is no longer is patient because he has not seen him for a long time....we discussed suspending treatment during the summer and then I was in the hospital... after that T left for 3 weeks and will not talk to me so I could not make an appt for my son for the past 7 weeks. I tried and tried and gave up. So he is using this and apparently he has the right to do this, even if it's not morally a nice thing to do.

And so I have an appointment next week same day and he said if he gets a cancellation he will let me know for this week as I asked to come in again.

As I left work today I just sat in the parking lot and cried cried over this all over again. I don't know how this happened, how I got to this terrible place and I didn't want to go home even though I promised my son to take him to the book fair. I cried over the fear that my oldT will never allow me to speak to him alone again, or that I will ever recover from the huge hole in my chest. It hurts even to breathe. I like newT but he is not who I want him to be. I want my oldT and to go back to my home and see his dog and sit by the fireplace and to feel safe again. A co-worker found me in the parking lot and tried to help me but I finally sent her home and left so she wouldn't worry about me.

I guess I should go start the letter...but it's just so hard to know what to say...

Thanks for listening.
TN
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It is deeply encouraging to hear about your new T - he sounds just the right sort of person. I like him!

I think his ideas about meeting with the old T are great - give some closure.

I know it will still hurt for a long time, right in the heart - that gaping aching hole, - but it will ease and time will ease it and working with this new T will ease it and having some proper termination sessions would ease it too. I feel for you.

I have about five minutes before I go to see my C again, she thinks it is to set up sessions of ending til Xmas and I am just going along to see if I still feel that awful about her and whether she will be kind at ALL>

Frowner

And I see my T on Friday and seeing what sessions he can set up and which one offers the best for ME.

Hey ho

thanks for telling us TN, how it went, I was waiting to hear.
Hi TN. I'm glad to hear you like your new T so much and that's he's so open to answering your questions and available for you.

I do have some concern about the things he said about your ex-T, though. Unless he knows your ex-T personally, how can he possibly know what his motivations were, his feelings, why he did and said what he did? This is called "mind reading", a trap we all fall into from time to time (and a serious contributor to our suffering), and it seems a T should be able to recognize when we are doing this and know better than to do it himself. He could be completely wrong. I just worry that should you act (write this letter) based on your T's ideas about what is going on in your ex-Ts head (the possibly romantic countertransference), and then it not go well... that you will blame yourself again and fall further into despair.

The same goes for his criticisms of your ex-T's training. Again, unless he knows him professionally, how can he know what kind of further education and training ex-T has had? There's more to being a therapist than just the diploma - your ex-T has been out of college for a LONG time. T's that gossip about other T's send up a red flag for me.

I hope this doesn't seem too pessimistic; I'm not trying to cause you more worry and pain than you are already in. I just hope you can maintain a healthy dose of skepticism about new T and not take everything he says as gospel truth. I hope whatever actions you take do lead to a healthier resolution for you. Truly. It must be awful to have this hanging over you unfinished. Frowner
Echo, thank you for expressing your concern. Actually my oldT has not been out of college for a very long time. He came late to being a psychologist. NewT is basing his thoughts, in part, on information that I have supplied to him. I happen to know what my oldTs training was in, what he did before becoming a T and am aware of his reluctance to further his training and increase his knowledge in any areas with regard to psychodynamic therapy. Because I am more knowledgeable than the average patient I was a pretty good judge of what my T knew and understood and what he feared.

I would not consider what newT is doing as gossiping... more that he is trying to help me put a puzzle together and make sense of a lot of my Ts reactions to me. And let me add here that I have spoken to 5 Ts and they have ALL told me that this termination was because of a very strong counter-transference reaction on the part of my T. Even D said this in different terms and she knew him personally.

Also, newT has worked over the years with many patients suffering from therapy harm, abuse and bad endings so I would think he is able to see patterns in what happens in therapy and perhaps understands why Ts act in the manner that they do when terminating abruptly. In fact, he noticed that in my termination email there was NO reason given for the termination only that I should find myself a new T. Odd that no reason was given if this was serving as my Ts "official" communication of the severing of our relationship.

But you are correct in that I should be skeptical of newT and maybe I am as I am still not sure about sending the letter. The problem being now is that I don't trust ANYONE ... even myself since I made such a complete mess of my last therapy. In fact tonight i am struggling so much with the fact that nothing really matters to me any more. If I write a letter or don't write it or if my son is terminated or not and even if I survive or not. What is the difference? I don't matter and all I can feel from life is pain and i'm just tired of fighting it. What would my oldT even care if he got such a letter? Even if I was totally right or totally wrong who would care? I would still wake up every day with hurt and pain and look into a bleak and hopeless future and then go to bed each night knowing I had to do it all over again the next day.

I am finding very very little to keep me going these days and I am so tired.

TN
WE WOULD CARE, TN! WE WOULD CARE!

Hey TN,

Don't blame your self for this. What I am about to say is not theraputic, and my T laughs at me, but - sometimes "shit happens", and we have no control over it. Countertransference is about him, and the sadness you feel is a very normal feeling considering your loss. It is not about you, it is about him crossing some boundries in his head, perhaps, and maybe he is stuck. The sadness comes from losing someone who matters a great deal to you, but you didn't cause it.

I wish you the very best on your new journey!

Many hugs being sent directly to you (do not pass Go, do not collect $200 dollars)strait to you, (((((TN)))))

Mayo
TN,

I would like to say that I agree with what Mayo said. You didn't do anything wrong and it is completely understandable the pain that you are feeling. I'm sorry that it is so hard right now. I think newT sounds great and I hope that things continue to go well with him. I also hope that if you feel you aren't safe or you just can't cope that you will call his cell or use the beeper as he seems more than willing to offer that support. ((((hugs))))
Thanks Mayo and STRM. Thanks for posting.

It's so hard to believe that it's nothing I did. I see so many people repairing with their Ts. They have called them names, threatened harm to themselves, used all sorts of way to contact them, asked for lots of things to be given to them, have fought with them and they all get second and third chances. Why didn't I deserve a second chance? Why am I being punished over and over again?

If I've done nothing wrong then it's just me. Just by being me I deserve to be hurt, abandoned and traumatized. Just because of who I am. It IS my fault because I chose to be open and honest with my T. It's my fault because I chose him as my T. It's my fault for not accepting his original offer to do EMDR and them go back to him for other therapy. I fought to stay with him in therapy and to continue the work that was healing me... and maybe I don't deserve to heal and this is how I am finding this out. That I would be allowed to get close to what feeling normal and happy feels like and then have it abruptly taken away from me. This is all I deserve to have.

NewT is nice and he's smart but I am not connected to him. He is just someone who allows me to sit and grieve and gets why I feel so hurt. But it does NOT matter to me. Nothing matters to me any more. I'm sorry to upset any of you who are reading this. I don't feel anything but sadness. Maybe it's not my fault but it is my destiny. Why try to fight it any longer?

I know i can beep newT if I need to. I'm not alone in the house so it's ok.

Thanks for caring.
TN
quote:
Why didn't I deserve a second chance? Why am I being punished over and over again?


Because it wasn't about you!! Your T leaving you wasn't about you, it was about him. You didn't deserve to be hurt and abandoned and traumatized. Not at all. You chose to be vulnerable and let him in, but that wasn't a mistake. The mistake was in how he handled your vulnerability.

I'm not surprised that you aren't connected to newT yet. I would be a little concerned if you were. Your mind and body have been through so much and jumping in head first and trusting someone new wouldn't be safe so your body isn't allowing it and that is a good thing! Over time, if this T works like I think he does, you will get there. It won't be a fast process and it won't be a painless process, but I believe you will get there. I really do. I know you are in the pit of darkness right now, but you aren't alone and things can get better.
quote:
If I've done nothing wrong then it's just me. Just by being me I deserve to be hurt, abandoned and traumatized. Just because of who I am. It IS my fault because I chose to be open and honest with my T. It's my fault because I chose him as my T. It's my fault for not accepting his original offer to do EMDR and them go back to him for other therapy. I fought to stay with him in therapy and to continue the work that was healing me... and maybe I don't deserve to heal and this is how I am finding this out. That I would be allowed to get close to what feeling normal and happy feels like and then have it abruptly taken away from me. This is all I deserve to have.


TN, I've just read this again and it seems like you are saying that it's your fault because you failed to protect yourself against his hurting you. So even if he did something wrong, you're to blame because you shouldn't have been in that situation.

When you look at other people who have been badly hurt, do you expect that they should have known better? Do you expect that others should live so that they are at no risk of pain?

Personally I think we can't be fully alive, we can't give to others, without opening ourselves up to love, to relationship, and therefore to pain. You risked what you did with your T because you wanted to be happier, healthier, a more open and stable and giving mum and member of society. There was an awful lot of risk involved in that, but the choice to take risk was a sound one, I very much believe.

Imagine you are stuck on one side of a desert highway with your son. The traffic is crazy on the highway, but the desert is empty, and there's nowhere on your side of the highway to get water. You know you and your son need water. You decide to cross the highway to get the water, because you know of no other way. You do everything you can to keep yourself safe, to choose the best time, to keep a look out. But it so happens that at that time you cross the highway, an learner driver comes past, driving too fast for the conditions, and sun strike hits, and you are hit and injured.

Not your fault, TN. Not your fault for anything you've done, nor for just being you.

Some others get the chance to repair with their Ts, some don't. If you think about the people on this board, you'll know that's true. And you'll know it's nothing to do with which clients are worthy or not.

Take care, friend.

J
Hi TN - I'm sorry if this post was too much, with the imagery and all. It was my imagery, not yours, and perhaps it was intrusive. I certainly didn't want to squash your post, your place to express your feelings about what's going on, and if it's getting in the way I'd be happy to vanish it. Hope you are doing okay today.

xxJ
Hi True North,

I just read this this blog and saw that your T didn't die, he terminated you .... I'm new to this whole therapy thing ... I keep saying that even though i've been with mine for 3 years ...so it horrifies me that T's can terminate clients ... because I thought that they weren't allowed to do that ... but the one before this one ... the psychodynamic lady ....and even though I technically told her I wasn't coming back ... in a phone call after I left, she told me I could never go back to her .... that she wasn't the right therapist for me and I wasn't the right patient for her ... I didn't threaten her ... I didn't do anything .... I was trying to work on myself and understand why my life has been so painful .... She had her own issues .... I could beat myself up over trying to understand what happened but the truth of it is, there will be so many times in life when I don't understand why someone doesn't like me ... or why someone rejects me .... and I just don't want to waste my energy on it anymore .... i just want to be stroked and loved .... at least that's why I say but it really feels good to think i want that! I hope you can leave this jerk behind in the dust and try, albeit slowly, to form a new relationship with your new T. and, of course, you are talking to someone who finds relationships confusing and wishes I could just form nice normal relationships with people but that just hasn't happened for me yet ... but I keep hoping!!! I'm 46 and the women in my family live a long time ... so hopefully ... I dream of an outside dinner .... i don't know why, but I dream of napa valley ... even though I've never been there ... with a small table set for 10 or 12 .... and maybe some wine ... and to be with people I love ... and to just celebrate life, beauty, love and to acknowledge pain and loss and to say, yes, we did it ... we loved each other and we were good to each other!....There's a song from Mama Mia ... that Pierce Brosnan sings called "When All is Said and Done" that kind of sums it all up ... It's a beautiful scene in the movie ...I'm not going to give up until I have that dinner .... Is that a silly dream?
Pardon me, Liese...I just want to pop in here...welcome to the forum, by the way! Big Grin I just LOVE your vision of the Napa Valley dinner...maybe because I have this recurring wish to meet up IRL with so many of the members of this forum...kind of like a reunion, only for the first time in person, obviously...I know it is so unlikely, but it is fun to dream sometimes. Your outside dinner in Napa Valley with wine and music sounds just lovely. I wish there was a way we could do it. Party all night. Big Grin

Jones...what a very powerful image you created with the desert highway. I love how it challenges the idea that these kinds of terminations are our "fault". I also love how it shows we are driven to find something better for ourselves (and our children, when there are children). Thank you Smiler , that image really helped to smash the still lingering beliefs I have that a) I was doing something wrong for seeking therapy in the first place, and b) the termination was my fault.

((((((((((TN)))))))))) When you say nothing matters, you feel so empty and tired...it reminds me so much of how I felt for months after my own termination. It was a very flat and hollow and "dead" feeling...I never felt anything like it before...the only way I could think of to describe it was I felt like my heart got killed. And the irony of it was, it was in that therapy that it finally felt like it was beating right for the first time, like my heart was finding its voice, and there was so much potential for beauty and growth. And then it felt like the termination just smashed it flat. Frowner Frowner Frowner And I imagine this feeling is quadrupled for you, because you were closer to your T, you saw him longer, and your son was involved. I really do not know how you are making it from day to day...but I am SO glad that you are. I also want to tell you, the heart DOES start beating again, it really really does. Just keep on moving forward. Even if you are convinced you'll never feel again...keep moving forward anyway. Take hope where you can get it, even if it's just a little spark of warmth that seems to go out so quickly. Eventually you will get that fire going again, you really will. I know you don't want to, because you don't want the pain of getting it blown out again...but the thing is, next time it will be next to impossible to blow out. Think roaring bonfire, lady. Smiler Big Grin Wink

Love,
SG
Jones, no worries. It's fine and it seems to help others. I'm the same today. Bitter, angry, depressed, hopeless and worthless.

Liese... my T did not die he banished me from his sight and my little boy too who did nothing wrong except have the misfortune to have me for a mother. I ruined this special relationship for my son too. And a T can terminate at will for whatever reason they make up in their head. And you have nothing to say about it.

SG... he murdered my soul. He lied about everything, broke every promise he ever made to me. I have no hope. And I will never allow anyone to get close to me again. Termination is one thing but abandonment and cruelty is something else. I don't want to minimize you pain or what you went through in your termination but at least your T handled it somewhat more humanely. He did not terminate you via email after turning you over the police and then refuse your calls or emails and leave town for 3 weeks leaving you alone in shock and trauma, still healing from surgery.

SG, I know you want to encourage me and you are happy I found newT and I thank you for your support and good wishes... I really do ... it means a lot to me and I wish I could live up to what you say about me. I'm so sorry that I am now this way. I lost the person I used to be. I have rejected her because she has no value. If her T cannot value her then there is truly no hope.

TN
Dear TN,

It is hard to write, because you are in such extreme pain and it feels like anything could hurt more. But still, I want you to know that you are not alone. I think wherever you are now is okay, you don't need to try to find hope right now or be the way you were. You are going through such an extreme trauma.

What do you need at the moment from us?

xxxJ
Jones, it's not humanly possible to hurt more than I am now so don't worry about what you need to say.

I don't know what I need but thanks for being so kind to ask me that. Maybe just that you all won't abandon me too... despite my less than cheerful posts and attitude.

What makes this all so hard is that I feel so profoundly alone. Even with newT and my sister IRL support and even with this forum I can't FEEL anything except alone. My T abandoned me and so I also abandoned me. Right now the self-hatred is pretty virulent.

Hope you are doing okay.
TN
We won't abandon you, TN. That's probably hard to imagine right now, though. And if what you need is to say exactly how it is for you, then we can at least be ears for that.

I get the sense of profound aloneness, isolation. You had trusted your deepest, truest self to this one person, and he has disappeared. It is absolutely abandonment, of the worst order.

I am doing ok - thank you. I'm confused and a bit despairing that anything will ever change to let me flourish in the ways I imagine I want to. But my day-to-day is fine, comfortable.

Thinking of you.

J
quote:
Originally posted by True North

What makes this all so hard is that I feel so profoundly alone. Even with newT and my sister IRL support and even with this forum I can't FEEL anything except alone. My T abandoned me and so I also abandoned me. Right now the self-hatred is pretty virulent.

Hope you are doing okay.
TN


Couldn't sleep ... nervous about trip to Nova Scotia today .... thought I'd check the activity .... What really struck me TN with the above-quote is even with all your pain, you wrote to Jones, Hope you are doing okay ... I am just so bowled over with your caring about someone else in the midst of all your pain ... that's so beautiful .... like a flower growing out of the dry desert ground .... that flower wants to thrive ... it may be in some harsh surroundings right now ... but it's there ... and it's beautiful .... and I just had to tell you that .... even if you can't receive it right now ...

After reading all these posts, it's seems as if we all know what severe emotional pain is ... and trust me, I've wanted to rip mine out more times than I can tell you because it is intolerable .... but I really believe that within all of us is the flip side of that emotional pain ... the good feelings ... even if they are fleeting .... or absent right now at the moment .... we can't be all bad, can we???

and Jones, I just wanted to say to Keep imagining flourishing ... that's what I do .... The women in my family live a long time and if that's any indication, I have about 40 plus years left and damnit ... I'm not going to live 40 plus years in the same pain I've lived the last 46 .... GodBless, Godspeed and I'll be sure to check in before I eave for Nova Scotia tomorrow!!!
Oh TN it’s so hard not to jump in and try and ‘convince’ you that it’s not you, that you’ve done nothing wrong, that given time and work with new T things will start to fall into emotional perspective. But right now you’re not able to hear that. I’d like to say I know how you feel, though I doubt that’s entirely true.

quote:
If I've done nothing wrong then it's just me. Just by being me I deserve to be hurt, abandoned and traumatized. Just because of who I am. It IS my fault because I chose to be open and honest with my T. It's my fault because I chose him as my T. It's my fault for not accepting his original offer to do EMDR and them go back to him for other therapy. I fought to stay with him in therapy and to continue the work that was healing me... and maybe I don't deserve to heal and this is how I am finding this out. That I would be allowed to get close to what feeling normal and happy feels like and then have it abruptly taken away from me. This is all I deserve to have.


See this could be me talking. And it IS the kind of things that still sit in the back of my head, that I fight and fight and fight. That sense almost of being ‘tricked’ by some cosmic punishing judge into revealing that deep down I believe I deserve to be loved, seen as good, normal, happy - and that the moment I reveal it whammo that cosmic judge rubs my face in the fact that not only can’t I have it but that I don’t deserve it and I should have known it, DID know it, it’s all my fault for daring to think it could be otherwise - punishment for monumental hubris.

quote:
Just by being me I deserve to be hurt, abandoned and traumatized. Just because of who I am.


This is exactly my life experience, my core what I call ‘anti-me’ belief. Simply by existing, by being who I am, I deserve nothing but bad. (Only I also have very sound cast iron reasons for believing that - reasons that I spend my life trying to undo and challenge and overcome.) I haven’t got any solutions or advice - except that if the way you are feeling is anything like I feel in this kind of horrendous real life situation, it’s important to go into that self hate, to get it out, to accept that’s how you’re experiencing yourself - with a sympathetic and on your side listener (read - a good T).

When I fall over my own self hate and self loathing and get plunged into the mea culpa I am bad and deserve nothing but bad horror - I’ll fight tooth and nail anyone who tries to tell me otherwise, because to me that feels like they’re negating my very core experience, that I’m not ‘supposed’ to feel that way, that I’m ‘supposed’ to really like and love myself and see how it’s not my fault etc. And somewhere in there I’ve realized that one of the most important things I need to do is actually ‘admit’ this self hate, almost like a confessional, knowing that whoever I’m confessing too DOESN’T see me that way, so that it makes it safe for me to admit it, to experience it without actually getting trapped in the no-hope I don’t deserve to live feelings that come up with that kind of self hate if I’m trying to face it alone. Having someone else hear it and take it and validate it whilst at the same time holding the knowledge that I’m NOT bad, NOT deserving of bad - that’s my perceived way out of it. Work in progress though.

So you have no connection to new T (I’d be very surprised even if there was a connection that you would be able to feel it at this point anyway given the intolerable situation you are in emotionally.) What I’d say though is, maybe your new T (who sounds pretty good and clued up) is the one you can spill the self hate to? Instead of feeling like you have to deal with it, overcome it, see things in a more ‘rational’ and ‘realistic’ way - which only invalidates how you’re really feeling. And please feel ok to keep talking about how crap you are feeling, about what’s happening, about yourself, on here. I’m listening, really closely.

I’m sorry if this is way out of order - I really hope that what I’m saying isn’t just making everything worse for you. I just feel so much for where you’re at right now - I recognize so much of my own set up in what you’re saying. If this is just upsetting you, please let me know and I’ll delete it.

Sending you lots of hugs TN, and all my support.

LL
LL... please don't delete it. I have to run now to work but I want to read it again later. It's the whole self-hate thing and being undeserving of anything good issue. You make total sense. When I'm feeling like this and everyone else tells me to stop thinking that and to think something else it makes me very angry because it invalidates my true feelings about the situation. I don't mind if they point out something positive in all of this because maybe I have not seen that... but I need to FEEL this way and it is not easy to change feelings.

I understand a lot of this intellectually... I'm not so stupid but the feelings are real and they hurt so damn much.

I sent my old T an email last night only to say that I accepted his offer to meet with my son and I would get back to him regarding some possible dates. That was it... short and to the point. I didn't want him to think he could get away with not meeting my son because I didn't give him a timely reply. And so this morning I got a cold and detached reply that hurt me so badly I ended up paging newT and sobbing on the phone with him. I reacted badly to the email where he wrote "I hope you and your family are doing well"... and then the way he kept reiterating that my dh needed to be at this meeting and if he was not availabe to come we would have to cancel the meeting.

As I told newT it's like I'm so scary that he needs guards around him in order to talk to me and that hurts me. He cannot address me as a person any longer it's always ... me and the family... I'm not a person any longer just a family member and he was not MY therapist just the family therapist. This negates our entire relationship.. it denies it. NewT said this is about HIM and HE is trying to distance himself and his emotions from me because he cannot handle the feelings in HIM. So he is denying our relationship. He agrees it's hurtful and it's not something a therapist should do. He also asked me to email him the letter I've been working on.. it's now 5 pages of single space thoughts and feelings. I told him I would.

And so I'm again late for work because I cannot function, get dressed or stop crying. I would not talk to my dh and son this morning... so yeah... me and the family are doing REAL well, thank you so much for asking T. I'm glad you are so concerned about our well-being after you destroyed me. Truth being... "I" am the heart of this family and this heart had died and so has the family. We are all in chaos now.

So LL.... your post really meant a lot to me. Thank you.

Sheychen... thanks for rooting for me. That is generous of you as I know you struggle too.

Liese...thanks for posting here too. Flowers were important in my therapy ... I brought my T flowers twice on the anniversary of the death of his mom. I never told him why I did it... I would tell him it was for "spring" as it was springtime. I don't know if he ever knew why I brought them to him. I wonder if a female ever gave him flowers..... silly of me I know but I had no way to talk to him about it as it would be delving into self-disclosure stuff and I knew that was not right to do. Liese I hope you enjoy your trip and have a good time. And yeah I worry about Jones because I know she is having a difficult time in her own therapy and she is generous and giving in trying to comfort me in my time of pain.

I am fortunate to have such a great group here to help me in this truly awful time.

TN
TN...just sending love and support and care for you. Your posts are really sad, and I am so sorry that you are feeling this way about your lovely self. I know how that feels, well, at least somewhat, and that nobody can say anything to make it go away. Those feelings of being bad are not your fault. But just know that we are here and caring about you, and that you can say whatever you need to say and not be worried about it. ((((TN)))))

BB
TN,

You are right, these feelings are real and they hurt so much. You have every right to feel what you are feeling and for as long as you feel it.

I am so sorry that your old T sent such an insensitive response. That is really hurtful and I can see why it feels like he is negating the entire relationship, because he is by refusing to see you as anything but a parent to your son. He knows that there is so much more to the relationship, but he won't acknowledge it and that has to be so painful.

I'm very proud of you for beeping newT and reaching out for that support and connection. I know that had to be so hard to allow yourself to be that vulnerable.

We (in this forum) are not going to abandon you. We don't require that you pretend to be ok when you feel like you are dying inside. I think it says so much about you that you are continuing to reach out here for support and I am so thankful that you are.

((((hugs))))
I second STRM's thought... .. that we don't want to require you to pretend to be okay when you're not .... it sucks that we have to experience pain in order to heal ... I told my T that someday soon, we'll be able to go in for tuneups ... the doctors will just be able to tinker with our brains and the pain will go away .... and we won't have to relive all this pain again .... He agreed but thought it could be 50 years about before that happens ... I really hope it's sooner than that!!!!

TN ... glad you liked the flower analogy ... It really struck me as amazing that someone in so much pain could still care for other people ... as everybody else seems to do on this forum ... as it seems we are all in pain ... and everyone is soooo supportive of each other ... you're all amazing ... so glad I found this forum ... and now I should really pack for Nova Scotia .... really, I should ....

Just one more thought before I go pack .... I am such a people idiot that I can't believe I actually majored in psychology in college .... but I am learning to figure out people by how they behave ... my T shows me a triangle now and again ... hasn't showed it to me in a while ... about thoughts influencing emotions influencing behavior and the other way around ... emotions influencing thoughts incluencing behavior ... and again, the other other way around ... behavior incluencing emotions incluencing thoughts ... So we don't really know how old T felt or what he thought but we can observe what he is trying to say by his behavior ... and it is clear to me that yes, you are reading this right ... the message he is sending .... and why on earth he would want to send such a hateful message is beyond me .... doesn't sound very therapeutic .... and so, why is he a therpist? anyway .... his behavior tells me more about him and the hateful person he is than it says anything about you ..... and that's what all this stuff is all about ... learning to feel good about ourselves when other people throw mud at us ... because it's more about their own internal pain .... i'm learning, maybe, how to dogde the mud ... it's slow .... but it's coming ... and there are a lot of people out there who want to throw mud ...(trust me, I'm pretty dirty and need a shower) i don't know why but we seem to live in an angry world ... maybe it's all the loneliness ... and isolation .... and no one can really connect on an emotional level .. but I'm moving to a higher plane .... please join me up there .....

Really gotta go pack!
TN,

I know that you're in a place right now where you're essentially inconsolable, and I know that when I feel that way, attempts at consolation can be anything but helpful, so I'll spare you that.

FWIW, it seems to me important that you have this new person to work through your rage and hurt at the old T. He sounds like he gets it where, clearly, the old T didn't, in terms of how a T should conduct him/herself with a client.

Anyway, I know this isn't much to offer, but from everything I've read about this experience, the point of failure was not with you. Also, I think the fact that this new T agreed to take you on shows that he feels the same.

Russ
Thank you Russ for your understanding about this. What you say is very true. This newT has so much insight and understanding about what I've been through because he has, sadly, seen it before. Aside from that he really gets the symbolic role he plays and even understands how a client views his office. And I was quite fortunate that he took me on as a client because his book is really full and he only takes referrals. He is working on his schedule to give me a set appointment because he apparently also understands this is important for a client.

While I like him very much and respect his knowledge of my issues, that special connection that I had with my T is not there. Perhaps at this moment in time it is better this way. I'm not sure even SuperT would feel good to me right now. I cannot tolerate much closeness from anyone while I'm in emotional pain. This is something that goes back to childhood abuse. Being emotionally abandoned over and over again you learn to tend your own wounds and don't trust anyone who tries to get close to you. So maybe this newT will work out and maybe one day I will feel more towards him. For now I enjoy his expertise and not worrying about what I have to say to him will somehow hurt his feelings or scare him away. He does not scare easily it seems.

As an update... I sent him my 5 page letter and was freaked out while waiting to see him today wondering what he thought of it. He told me it was beautifully written and "phenomenal" and "very powerful". He confessed that he originally felt it would be a good therapeutic exercise to put this all on paper but after reading it he strongly feels I should sent it to my T. He said he was impressed that there was no anger, vindictiveness or threat in the letter. That I tied everything together concisely and I made my case very clearly. He did not change a thing in the letter. He said he didn't know if I would get a response or any action from my T but that it would be hard not to be moved by the letter.

We went on to talk of other things and he basically told me I had a malpractice case and that I was harmed. He also took another look at what my T did that day and how he is most likely quite ashamed and embarrased by what he did and is now finding it hard to look me in the face. We talked about some warning signs in my therapy and then he made me smile by telling me that I know more about therapy than many of the interns he works with! Okay I loved hearing that. He said he enjoys the fact that I know so much about the process.

And so I am going to mail the letter tomorrow. Please wish me the best. I certainly don't believe it would be possible to go back to therapy with my oldT but I would like to be able to have a meeting or two to do a real transition and to clear the air between us. I would also like to be able to talk to him intermittantly about my progress and my life. And I believe that down deep inside my T would like this too... he just does not know how to get past what he did to me those last weeks and I'm hoping what I say in the letter will free him from some of the anguish that I know he is also feeling from the events. He is not really a bad person... he is just lost and running in fear.

NewT said that what I was supposed to be learning in therapy... not to run from my feelings is exactly what my T is doing... he is running... but I'm not. I'm being courageous.

I see him next Tuesday again. This may just work out okay.

Thanks for all the support.

TN
TN - I hope you sent the letter and we await the responce. If there is one.
It is so hard being on the end of a malpractice by a T. You want to believe in his goodness so much, and he has harmed you and done wrong by you. I think that is the bit the grieving needs to go towards, the fact that someone you opened your heart and mind to, was not able to do what was in your best interests, when it got tough. He was not. He failed you. Like other people failed you. And so the hurt is deep.
I feel for you, going through something similar myself.
I am impressed so far with this new T. I slightly envy you in a good way, as I am still limping along with my old C, looking for a new T.
sigh
we have all these difficulties and problems from our past and then we spend so much time and angst trying to heal from our therapy mess ups. Sigh.
quote:
Originally posted by blackbird:
Good luck with the letter TN. I like the sound of SuperT...and I am glad that he is offering you some real support which you so deserve. thinking of you...

BB


This made me think...what if you were to dress up like a SuperT for halloween...what would that look like. The funny thing is, would be different for all of us, I'm sure...my costume would be my T's face for a mask...maybe a Superhero type cape with a body costume of puffed out muscles (my SUPER T would be STRONG). Under the arm of my costume I would carry a box of Kleenex! Anway...don't mean to hijack...TN, good luck with your letter...I'm so happy for what seems to be a hopeful path that you are on! Lots of hugs and support from Hals....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Deepfried:
Knowing my luck I'd go in to the project of making a T costume and come out with a costume that looks like MY MOTHER (a truly scary costume). A transference Halloween!
[QUOTE]

Deepfried, sometimes this board gives me the smile I need...right now, depsite what I've got going on, your tranference Halloween reference has me grinning ear to ear! thanks for that!
Hals...
PS...I hate that damn quote thing...sometimes I got it and sometimes I don't
quote:

And so I am going to mail the letter tomorrow. Please wish me the best.
quote:


..hereby sending you all the best wishes. Even though it may be already sent by now. Anyways: this is also my way of telling you i`ve followed your posters, and i am also (as your newT seem to be) striked by your courrage and bravery.
I hope your old T also will be brave enough to handle this and be moved by the letter, so those transition meetings can take place. I undestand those will be very essential for your further healing progress. For both of you i guess.
I just wanted to clarify something here... I did not mean to refer to NewT as SuperT in my post. I was saying that not even some unknown SuperT if he existed would be enough for me right now or be able to get past my emotional defenses. NewT is just NewT... not SuperT LOL.

STRM... thank for saying I should be proud that I'm not running. My old T would always tell me to look fear in the face (see siggy line) and I think this is something HE needs to work on. I've been facing down SO many fears lately and not running. It's his turn now.

Sheychen, I know you are going through something similar and my heart aches for you too. It's a horrible thing... especially to be made to feel like you are too much for a T or C. This is what I always worried about and he would reassure me over and over again. Guess he lied. Yeah, I trusted him with everything and he betrayed me. Not easy to get past that. I wish you all the best in finding your own new wonderful T.

BeeBee! So good to hear from you always. Thanks for your support.

Hal...very funny image with the box of tissues LOL! Thanks for the good wishes. It feels good to send the letter with all my thoughts I had been holding onto for so so long.

DF...thanks for posting and for thinking of me today. I did mail the letter today at lunchtime at the post office. He should get it tomorrow. I hope he is sitting down when he opens it. I'm not counting on a response but it would really be churlish and unprofessional of him not to respond in any way at all and ... also... I am going to see him with my son at least ONE time and how can he look me in the face knowing he ignored my letter? I guess nothing should shock me by this point though. he could also respond and dispute everything I say (and the other 5 Ts too) but it would be a weak argument and he would sound like an idiot.

Frog, thank you for saying I'm brave. I have worked so hard to find the courage do survive all of this. So many times I was in a really dark and scary place and didn't know if I would survive the pain and fear. I do think NewT is helping even if I don't have that special connection to him. At least he does validate and understand what I am facing. And let's hope oldT finds some of his own courage to meet with me face to face and be honest.

I will keep you all posted on what happens... if anything. Thank you all again.

TN
I am so glad you posted the letter. Let's see what happens.
Don;t know whether you saw my post today but I truly felt retraumatized today in my session with the C, and I am aware now that I CNANNOT go back. It was truly truly awful.
I hurt so much in the centre of my chest and keep having to remind myself that I am not what she thinks of me, I am not just that. I would go under if I believed myself to be what she thinks of me.
It was heart breaking. I told her that. "this is breaking my heart" I don't think she knew it was a truth. I think she felt it was just an expression.
I go to bed broken and bruised and traumatized and have to hope that there is some therapist out there who can actually HELP me not hurt me.

She meant to much to me. I TRUSTED her. Today there as no safety, no trust, no connection. It was horrible and it felt ALL MY FAULT. And yet I argued that it takes two to make this. But no, it was because I have issues that block me to hearing her, according to her.
sorry, am going on and was meant to be sympathising with you. But so helpful to know I am not alone in this.

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