I'm sorry for taking your words and running with them, TN. I know this is no joking matter. I just wasn't thinking straight when I refered to him as SuperT, because it sounded so cute and funny that I couldn't resist refering to him that way.... But I didn't mean to joke around such a serious matter.
I'm glad you posted the letter. Will be keeping all my feathers crossed for a reasonable reply...
Thanks, TN... hugs,
BeeBee
Yesterday I saw newT again for a session and I left there feeling upset and very angry and I have not been feeling too stable since then. I spent most of today and last night crying.
We talked about that my T has not responded in any way to my letter and newT said he was not surprised. He said he is not even sure my T realizes how serious this all is and that I probably won't hear anythiing from him. And I say...well I still have to set up that appt for my son and doesn't he realize that he has to see me again? How can he look at me knowing he never acknowledged the letter and all what I wrote about the attachment and counter transference and then I told newT that I had real doubts that it was C-T at all. He told me nothing else made any sense and he does not want me to blame myself for what happened because that was dangerous as it would prevent me from healing.
Well, I just can't switch my feeling off like that. I do think it's my fault because I did something to drive him away from me. Aside from that I ignored all the red flags that were out there and I stayed with him instead of leaving him first. Even newT brought the red flags to my attention. But I think what made me mad was that he kept referring to the fact that I loved my T and yeah so what I did love him but it was more than that. NewT said it's "just" like being dumped in a relationship... the person is wrong for you if they dump you and you cannot fix it.
I got angry with him because I didn't like the comparison of this very intimate and powerful "therapy" relationship being compared to just two people who were hooking up for whatever reason. I not only miss my T but I miss my therapy very much. My therapy that was going so well (I stupidly thought) and I was happy and optimisitc and feeling like a new me. That has all been destroyed in a sudden and shocking way by someone who KNEW my history, my fears of abandonment and why I had them and how harmful abandonment would be and he did it anyway. So this is not just about losing a love relationship... it's about losing myself, my therapy, my son's therapy, my ability to work, focus, have relationships, trust anyone, especially a T and losing all the years of hard work and money I poured into the therapy. Not to mention what it has cost me since in trying to get past this new trauma.
So I am angry at NewT. It's hard not to be angry with him all the time because he is not my T and not who I want him to be. What else he said upset me....he mentioned how I wanted my T to love me so he would be invested in me and my therapy and my healing. So I said.. well I didn't want him to dislike me. He laughed and said of course but you worked to make him care about you so you would have a person invested in you. Then he went on to say that he is not vested in a new client, he does not have any feelings for them because he does not know them. And so I felt like since I'm his "new" client that he was telling me that he was not invested in me nor did he care a bit for me and that made me feel so worthless.
I did yell at him that how did I know he was not going to leave me too and how could I trust ANYTHIING he says since my T told me all of those same things. he said he was not going to ask me to trust him because he knows I can't do that but to just "watch" what he does. In a way this reminds me of AGs T who said he would just have to "be" trustworthy because she would not believe him if he just said it.
I asked him why he wanted me for a patient since he has a full book and it's not like he NEEDS someone new. He said it's not about a new patient but about how upset he is at what happened to me. But even hearing that I am angry because I have lost my T who I at one time meant something to.... and now I am with someone that I don't want to be with and feel no connection to. I am in despair of EVER having that powerful kind of connection again. You know the kind where you don't even have to speak because they just KNOW what you are feeling and thinking and they can tease you about it and make you laugh and that shows you how much they DO know who you are under all the fear and self-hatred, and trauma.
The last thing that upsets me is that because his book is so damn full I cannot get an extra appointment with him. I was seeing my T twice a week.... with me and my son... and sometimes more if I needed to. This new T is so hard to get to see and I feel shunted to the side when I'm in agony because he is just too busy. I don't feel like he needs to see me and so why should I stay? I just don't feel wanted and I keep getting appointments all over the place. I always had a standing appointment with my T. I did better work that way.
I did email him last night asking for a cancellation appointment if one comes in. He said he'd let me know. He told me I did good work and I should hold onto the foundation we were building. I'm not sure what that means except for the whole not blaming myself stuff. I told him in the email that I could not be convinced not to blame myself and that I rejected his calling what happened to me just being dumped in a relationship. That made me angry. And that I missed my T but also my therapy and the me I used to be who is now dead because my T killed her and I rejected her. I told him I didn't need a response I was just telling him why I was in such a really dark place right now.
Which is where I truly am. Today I reached that point where I thought I was going to lose my mind totally. Go crazy, have a severe breakdown of some kind. Idk... like there is no hope for me and no one can help me because it's just so hopeless. Things will never be the same and I will never find any peace ever again in my life. I will only feel tortured by what happened and will forever go in circles trying to figure out what happened to us.
TN
We talked about that my T has not responded in any way to my letter and newT said he was not surprised. He said he is not even sure my T realizes how serious this all is and that I probably won't hear anythiing from him. And I say...well I still have to set up that appt for my son and doesn't he realize that he has to see me again? How can he look at me knowing he never acknowledged the letter and all what I wrote about the attachment and counter transference and then I told newT that I had real doubts that it was C-T at all. He told me nothing else made any sense and he does not want me to blame myself for what happened because that was dangerous as it would prevent me from healing.
Well, I just can't switch my feeling off like that. I do think it's my fault because I did something to drive him away from me. Aside from that I ignored all the red flags that were out there and I stayed with him instead of leaving him first. Even newT brought the red flags to my attention. But I think what made me mad was that he kept referring to the fact that I loved my T and yeah so what I did love him but it was more than that. NewT said it's "just" like being dumped in a relationship... the person is wrong for you if they dump you and you cannot fix it.
I got angry with him because I didn't like the comparison of this very intimate and powerful "therapy" relationship being compared to just two people who were hooking up for whatever reason. I not only miss my T but I miss my therapy very much. My therapy that was going so well (I stupidly thought) and I was happy and optimisitc and feeling like a new me. That has all been destroyed in a sudden and shocking way by someone who KNEW my history, my fears of abandonment and why I had them and how harmful abandonment would be and he did it anyway. So this is not just about losing a love relationship... it's about losing myself, my therapy, my son's therapy, my ability to work, focus, have relationships, trust anyone, especially a T and losing all the years of hard work and money I poured into the therapy. Not to mention what it has cost me since in trying to get past this new trauma.
So I am angry at NewT. It's hard not to be angry with him all the time because he is not my T and not who I want him to be. What else he said upset me....he mentioned how I wanted my T to love me so he would be invested in me and my therapy and my healing. So I said.. well I didn't want him to dislike me. He laughed and said of course but you worked to make him care about you so you would have a person invested in you. Then he went on to say that he is not vested in a new client, he does not have any feelings for them because he does not know them. And so I felt like since I'm his "new" client that he was telling me that he was not invested in me nor did he care a bit for me and that made me feel so worthless.
I did yell at him that how did I know he was not going to leave me too and how could I trust ANYTHIING he says since my T told me all of those same things. he said he was not going to ask me to trust him because he knows I can't do that but to just "watch" what he does. In a way this reminds me of AGs T who said he would just have to "be" trustworthy because she would not believe him if he just said it.
I asked him why he wanted me for a patient since he has a full book and it's not like he NEEDS someone new. He said it's not about a new patient but about how upset he is at what happened to me. But even hearing that I am angry because I have lost my T who I at one time meant something to.... and now I am with someone that I don't want to be with and feel no connection to. I am in despair of EVER having that powerful kind of connection again. You know the kind where you don't even have to speak because they just KNOW what you are feeling and thinking and they can tease you about it and make you laugh and that shows you how much they DO know who you are under all the fear and self-hatred, and trauma.
The last thing that upsets me is that because his book is so damn full I cannot get an extra appointment with him. I was seeing my T twice a week.... with me and my son... and sometimes more if I needed to. This new T is so hard to get to see and I feel shunted to the side when I'm in agony because he is just too busy. I don't feel like he needs to see me and so why should I stay? I just don't feel wanted and I keep getting appointments all over the place. I always had a standing appointment with my T. I did better work that way.
I did email him last night asking for a cancellation appointment if one comes in. He said he'd let me know. He told me I did good work and I should hold onto the foundation we were building. I'm not sure what that means except for the whole not blaming myself stuff. I told him in the email that I could not be convinced not to blame myself and that I rejected his calling what happened to me just being dumped in a relationship. That made me angry. And that I missed my T but also my therapy and the me I used to be who is now dead because my T killed her and I rejected her. I told him I didn't need a response I was just telling him why I was in such a really dark place right now.
Which is where I truly am. Today I reached that point where I thought I was going to lose my mind totally. Go crazy, have a severe breakdown of some kind. Idk... like there is no hope for me and no one can help me because it's just so hopeless. Things will never be the same and I will never find any peace ever again in my life. I will only feel tortured by what happened and will forever go in circles trying to figure out what happened to us.
TN
Hi TN ... my T is really busy like that too .... I do have a standing appointment but ... when I first went to him, it was like that or .. if I want an extra .... or when I wanted to get my son in, it was very difficult and I understand the stress .....
New T sounds really nice ... maybe worth the wait .... and the hassle .... FWIW
New T sounds really nice ... maybe worth the wait .... and the hassle .... FWIW
Wow, TN - I am up at 4am unable to sleep because of my last session with my Ex counsellor and I thought I could give you some support right now as you are in the next stage ( I have not found a new T yet to rage at and hurt with)
Your new T is right on this. You can chose to keep painting your ex T as perfect and so therefore you must be 'wrong' or see that he had and has major failings and the CT and the not responding to your letter are two very obvious examples. Sometimes we just don't WANT to see these things. It challenges our idea of how much the love and care for us. This is OUR idea. Your ex T does not love and care for you as much as you are wanting to believe he doe, as much as you are projecting onto him. Did you read the comment someone made to me, that I had psychotic attachment? Sounds horrible but it means that you insist on seeing the person (in this case your ex T) as an idealised figure and so cannot see that they are flawed. that would destroy your nice image of them, your idealised image of them that your little you needs him to be.
this may be too much for you to hear right now as you are hurting terribly and this particular 'daddy' figure has let you down by not being the 'daddy' you desperately needed him to be to heal the 'poor daddy figure hurts' that you had as you grew up.
I feel for you. I am suffering in such a similar way.
Actually I feel it is just like that, your new t is not talking about
you have not lost them. You know that. I know you are mad and hurt right now, but you know you have not. You grew and you changed and you found insight. You cannot delete all that. It may feel right now in your hurt that it has all gone , but it has not. YOur ex T does not have the power to take away the courage and determination and guts and sweat and tears that you put in to the work in that therapy, even though the therapy ended badly because your T had serious issues and was not as solidly wise as you would have liked him to be.
Well this new T is worth is weight in gold. Imagine what you would have felt and thought if he said 'I am invested in you and I love you right now" you would have thought "but you hardly know me - that is impossible!" and you would have been right. He is being HONEST and real. He would have to be the Buddha himself to love you and deeply feel invested in you now when you are just getting to know each other. I applaud him for his honesty.
This T gets 10 our of 10. He is genuine. he is not playing games, He is saying it as it is. You will see him over time get to know you more and as in all human relationships with none idealised figures, you will gradually mean more to each other as you share and disclose and come close in the relationship of trust in your therapy. You cannot rush these things. Maybe you want to. but it is not like that, it takes time for all of us. I love his honesty and his understanding of this process.
My god this new T has a full book and did not NEED to see you but he did - why? BEcause:
This is a GOOD man. He knows a wrong when he sees it and he is reaching out like the caring human being he is, trying to correct a wrong done by someone in his own profession who should have known better. My goodness, he cares about you already. He did not need to take you on and he is squeezing you in - with a very tight schedule of clients. How kind of him. And you rage at him for not giving you your steady appointments. !!
Steady appointments will come, he will work towards fixing that for you when the case load pressure decreases. Good on him for taking you on even with full books.
I am with him on that one, you are building a foundation with a hopefully better T who will not dump you and it will take time for you two to know each other but he is already going beyond the call of duty for you - he could just have put you on his waiting list. And also, as a T he knows that you will have a lot of anger and resentment at him. He is wise.
It feels this way now, of course it does. Because your heart is bleeding. It is like when you are three and your daddy walks away uncaringly. It so hurts. But this is NOT your daddy, this is a flawed ex T who really truly had some major failings that shock those of us who read about what happened to you, including your new T. Your hurt and feelings of falling apart are normal around a primary hurt of this level. But you will survive, it is just a question of taking one tiny baby step at a time. And you know, I envy you in the nicest way, because you seem to have fallen on your feet and got a much better T - so your ex T unintentionally did you a favour, you now have someone so much better to work with and that will help you in the long run.
If I have said anything in this to upset you TN - just delete it from your mind. I am only trying to say how it is from where I am. And remember I am in a wretched place as i only today saw my C in her true light, but for me the red flags were waving from day one but I so wanted her to be the sensitive deeply understanding and loyal and steadfast 'mummy' that I never had, that I constantly doubted my occasional glimpses of that and kept feeling it was my fault it kept going all weird.
Today I saw her as terribly flawed and actually her failings were damaging me. AS your ex T damaged you.
You are well out of there, but yes, you need to grieve and your new solid T will help you with that. You fell on your feet, you truly did.
I am unable to sleep as I keep replaying the last session that I had 12 hours ago, with my C. So I have taken a valium and I shall soon be able to nod off.
Strangely I don't feel grief just now, just an amazing ability to cope but then I realized that because of the traumas in my life, I am very good at coping when things get really very bad - it is one of my great skills. so this bad time and me surviving it - it is an old pattern. the pain will hit in again - but just now I am feeling motivated to keep hunting a good T and I know that the new T whoever it is, will be horrified at what the ex C did and how she did it.
You know one classic remark she made this last session is almost funny. She said with great indignation: " you would be okay one session and I would think S is doing okay again and then NEXT session you would come in angry and all upset. You were just unpredictable. It meant I NEVER knew what was going to happen!" and she was so animated and agitated and indignant saying that. I looked at her and thought " my god this woman does not seem to know what therapy is actually LIKE!"
Ah, Valium kicking in, going to go to bed. Sending hugs (((((TN))))))))
sorry it feels so bad right now but all you are feeling is perfectly normal for what you are going through. I sympathise HUGELY.
quote:He told me nothing else made any sense and he does not want me to blame myself for what happened because that was dangerous as it would prevent me from healing.
Your new T is right on this. You can chose to keep painting your ex T as perfect and so therefore you must be 'wrong' or see that he had and has major failings and the CT and the not responding to your letter are two very obvious examples. Sometimes we just don't WANT to see these things. It challenges our idea of how much the love and care for us. This is OUR idea. Your ex T does not love and care for you as much as you are wanting to believe he doe, as much as you are projecting onto him. Did you read the comment someone made to me, that I had psychotic attachment? Sounds horrible but it means that you insist on seeing the person (in this case your ex T) as an idealised figure and so cannot see that they are flawed. that would destroy your nice image of them, your idealised image of them that your little you needs him to be.
this may be too much for you to hear right now as you are hurting terribly and this particular 'daddy' figure has let you down by not being the 'daddy' you desperately needed him to be to heal the 'poor daddy figure hurts' that you had as you grew up.
I feel for you. I am suffering in such a similar way.
quote:NewT said it's "just" like being dumped in a relationship... the person is wrong for you if they dump you and you cannot fix it.
Actually I feel it is just like that, your new t is not talking about
he is talking about two people who love each other and then one dumps the other. In that relationship of wide open heart, one walks away. Your T walked away from the trusting therapeutic relationship you were in. It is just like being dumped. So painful, so hopeless in that you cannot MAKE someone love you again.quote:two people who were hooking up for whatever reason
quote:losing all the years of hard work
you have not lost them. You know that. I know you are mad and hurt right now, but you know you have not. You grew and you changed and you found insight. You cannot delete all that. It may feel right now in your hurt that it has all gone , but it has not. YOur ex T does not have the power to take away the courage and determination and guts and sweat and tears that you put in to the work in that therapy, even though the therapy ended badly because your T had serious issues and was not as solidly wise as you would have liked him to be.
quote:Then he went on to say that he is not vested in a new client, he does not have any feelings for them because he does not know them. And so I felt like since I'm his "new" client that he was telling me that he was not invested in me nor did he care a bit for me and that made me feel so worthless.
Well this new T is worth is weight in gold. Imagine what you would have felt and thought if he said 'I am invested in you and I love you right now" you would have thought "but you hardly know me - that is impossible!" and you would have been right. He is being HONEST and real. He would have to be the Buddha himself to love you and deeply feel invested in you now when you are just getting to know each other. I applaud him for his honesty.
quote:he said he was not going to ask me to trust him because he knows I can't do that but to just "watch" what he does. In a way this reminds me of AGs T who said he would just have to "be" trustworthy because she would not believe him if he just said it.
This T gets 10 our of 10. He is genuine. he is not playing games, He is saying it as it is. You will see him over time get to know you more and as in all human relationships with none idealised figures, you will gradually mean more to each other as you share and disclose and come close in the relationship of trust in your therapy. You cannot rush these things. Maybe you want to. but it is not like that, it takes time for all of us. I love his honesty and his understanding of this process.
My god this new T has a full book and did not NEED to see you but he did - why? BEcause:
quote:He said it's not about a new patient but about how upset he is at what happened to me.
This is a GOOD man. He knows a wrong when he sees it and he is reaching out like the caring human being he is, trying to correct a wrong done by someone in his own profession who should have known better. My goodness, he cares about you already. He did not need to take you on and he is squeezing you in - with a very tight schedule of clients. How kind of him. And you rage at him for not giving you your steady appointments. !!
Steady appointments will come, he will work towards fixing that for you when the case load pressure decreases. Good on him for taking you on even with full books.
quote:. He told me I did good work and I should hold onto the foundation we were building. I
I am with him on that one, you are building a foundation with a hopefully better T who will not dump you and it will take time for you two to know each other but he is already going beyond the call of duty for you - he could just have put you on his waiting list. And also, as a T he knows that you will have a lot of anger and resentment at him. He is wise.
quote:Today I reached that point where I thought I was going to lose my mind totally. Go crazy, have a severe breakdown of some kind. Idk... like there is no hope for me and no one can help me because it's just so hopeless. Things will never be the same and I will never find any peace ever again in my life. I will only feel tortured by what happened and will forever go in circles trying to figure out what happened to us.
It feels this way now, of course it does. Because your heart is bleeding. It is like when you are three and your daddy walks away uncaringly. It so hurts. But this is NOT your daddy, this is a flawed ex T who really truly had some major failings that shock those of us who read about what happened to you, including your new T. Your hurt and feelings of falling apart are normal around a primary hurt of this level. But you will survive, it is just a question of taking one tiny baby step at a time. And you know, I envy you in the nicest way, because you seem to have fallen on your feet and got a much better T - so your ex T unintentionally did you a favour, you now have someone so much better to work with and that will help you in the long run.
If I have said anything in this to upset you TN - just delete it from your mind. I am only trying to say how it is from where I am. And remember I am in a wretched place as i only today saw my C in her true light, but for me the red flags were waving from day one but I so wanted her to be the sensitive deeply understanding and loyal and steadfast 'mummy' that I never had, that I constantly doubted my occasional glimpses of that and kept feeling it was my fault it kept going all weird.
Today I saw her as terribly flawed and actually her failings were damaging me. AS your ex T damaged you.
You are well out of there, but yes, you need to grieve and your new solid T will help you with that. You fell on your feet, you truly did.
I am unable to sleep as I keep replaying the last session that I had 12 hours ago, with my C. So I have taken a valium and I shall soon be able to nod off.
Strangely I don't feel grief just now, just an amazing ability to cope but then I realized that because of the traumas in my life, I am very good at coping when things get really very bad - it is one of my great skills. so this bad time and me surviving it - it is an old pattern. the pain will hit in again - but just now I am feeling motivated to keep hunting a good T and I know that the new T whoever it is, will be horrified at what the ex C did and how she did it.
You know one classic remark she made this last session is almost funny. She said with great indignation: " you would be okay one session and I would think S is doing okay again and then NEXT session you would come in angry and all upset. You were just unpredictable. It meant I NEVER knew what was going to happen!" and she was so animated and agitated and indignant saying that. I looked at her and thought " my god this woman does not seem to know what therapy is actually LIKE!"
Ah, Valium kicking in, going to go to bed. Sending hugs (((((TN))))))))
sorry it feels so bad right now but all you are feeling is perfectly normal for what you are going through. I sympathise HUGELY.
Sheychen thanks for responding and for your thoughts. i'm sorry you are suffering so much and hope that you find some peace too at some point. I'm sorry your C was not dependable or knowledgeable or loyal to seeing this through with you. It really sucks.
Just to clarify...I did not just land on my feet... I struggled and spent thousands of dollars and ran from T to T to T to T to T. Terrified of staying anywhere. I'm running out of male Ts to interview in my area who are psychodynamic. Most are CBT which I DO NOT want at all. And so I stay here where i am not wanting to be here at all. I told newT that I would crawl through hot coals and broken glass on my knees to get back to my old T and if he would ask me back I'd be outta there in a nanosecond! He said he understood.
I know everyone says... give it time and the connection will come but that is so not true. It won't come because I would have felt it by now. I was connected to oldT immediately. I felt his care and concern right away. It was a very right brain limbic connection. It was like a magnetic force and I attached immediately to him. It didn't matter if he was attached or drawn to me ... I needed to feel it on my end and I have not felt even an iota of it with any other T so far. And without the attachment how am I supposed to heal an attachment injury? By talking about it in some abstract sense but without FEELING it? By still longing for it as I do again now that I had it for a short time and lost it again? Maybe I just don't deserve to ever feel securely attached to anyone ever. Maybe this is just how I'm supposed to live out the rest of my life... scared, panicked, unsure, self-loathing because no one wants me. I'm so abhorent to be attached to.
NewT does not like what happened to me because it tarnishes his profession and that upsets him. It has nothing to do particularly with me. I could be anyone and he would do the same. It's not relative to me or who I am. And his having to squeeze me in makes me feel guilty and unwanted. Does he have to make such a production about finding me a spot in his busy schedule? I want to say... don't bother I'll go away and not cause you such problems...
And who knows if he is really honest... they all say stuff they don't mean. I've heard plenty of that....I won't ever terminate you... oh yeah right....
And I didn't idealize my oldT I accepted him and all his flaws which I was well aware of. I loved him because he was imperfect. I hate perfection in other people it's quite intimidating. How and I supposed to confide all my ugliness to this superior and perfect newT? I know NOTHING about him except where he was educated. There is nothinig at all on the web and I searched very hard. I knew so much about my old T which made it feel okay to tell him stuff. I knew he was not perfect but he was perfect for ME. He just could not believe it and had no faith in his abilities to heal.
And please please don't say that this is the proverbial "blessing in disguise". That I need to suffer the pains of hell so I will fall into the lap of a perfect and wonderful T who is the one who will cure me of all my defectiveness. You know... I won't let him because I don't deserve to be cured or healed. I deserve to suffer just the way my T wants me to. He knew the real me and didn't value me so why should I value me or anyone else for that matter?
Maybe I just want to crawl away into a cave and just give it up. This is too hard for me and maybe I just don't have the strength to survive such damage and destruction of my insides. Maybe you have the coping skills from years of trauma but I am giving up. I tried for a lot of years and there was always another person waiting to pile on more trauma. I just don't care anymore.
I hope you find yourself the perfect T who can help you because at least you want to be helped. I don't.
Sorry for sounding so bitter... just where i am right now...
TN
Just to clarify...I did not just land on my feet... I struggled and spent thousands of dollars and ran from T to T to T to T to T. Terrified of staying anywhere. I'm running out of male Ts to interview in my area who are psychodynamic. Most are CBT which I DO NOT want at all. And so I stay here where i am not wanting to be here at all. I told newT that I would crawl through hot coals and broken glass on my knees to get back to my old T and if he would ask me back I'd be outta there in a nanosecond! He said he understood.
I know everyone says... give it time and the connection will come but that is so not true. It won't come because I would have felt it by now. I was connected to oldT immediately. I felt his care and concern right away. It was a very right brain limbic connection. It was like a magnetic force and I attached immediately to him. It didn't matter if he was attached or drawn to me ... I needed to feel it on my end and I have not felt even an iota of it with any other T so far. And without the attachment how am I supposed to heal an attachment injury? By talking about it in some abstract sense but without FEELING it? By still longing for it as I do again now that I had it for a short time and lost it again? Maybe I just don't deserve to ever feel securely attached to anyone ever. Maybe this is just how I'm supposed to live out the rest of my life... scared, panicked, unsure, self-loathing because no one wants me. I'm so abhorent to be attached to.
NewT does not like what happened to me because it tarnishes his profession and that upsets him. It has nothing to do particularly with me. I could be anyone and he would do the same. It's not relative to me or who I am. And his having to squeeze me in makes me feel guilty and unwanted. Does he have to make such a production about finding me a spot in his busy schedule? I want to say... don't bother I'll go away and not cause you such problems...
And who knows if he is really honest... they all say stuff they don't mean. I've heard plenty of that....I won't ever terminate you... oh yeah right....
And I didn't idealize my oldT I accepted him and all his flaws which I was well aware of. I loved him because he was imperfect. I hate perfection in other people it's quite intimidating. How and I supposed to confide all my ugliness to this superior and perfect newT? I know NOTHING about him except where he was educated. There is nothinig at all on the web and I searched very hard. I knew so much about my old T which made it feel okay to tell him stuff. I knew he was not perfect but he was perfect for ME. He just could not believe it and had no faith in his abilities to heal.
And please please don't say that this is the proverbial "blessing in disguise". That I need to suffer the pains of hell so I will fall into the lap of a perfect and wonderful T who is the one who will cure me of all my defectiveness. You know... I won't let him because I don't deserve to be cured or healed. I deserve to suffer just the way my T wants me to. He knew the real me and didn't value me so why should I value me or anyone else for that matter?
Maybe I just want to crawl away into a cave and just give it up. This is too hard for me and maybe I just don't have the strength to survive such damage and destruction of my insides. Maybe you have the coping skills from years of trauma but I am giving up. I tried for a lot of years and there was always another person waiting to pile on more trauma. I just don't care anymore.
I hope you find yourself the perfect T who can help you because at least you want to be helped. I don't.
Sorry for sounding so bitter... just where i am right now...
TN
TN - I send you hugs and I very clearly hear that no T will be like your old T. I hear that. that is what you are insisting. That is what you feel. I hear and I am sorry you have lost him.
And I am sorry it feels so bad.
YOur rage and anger is appropriate to the situation and it is a painful space to be in.
And I am sorry it feels so bad.
YOur rage and anger is appropriate to the situation and it is a painful space to be in.
quote:Maybe I just don't deserve to ever feel securely attached to anyone ever. Maybe this is just how I'm supposed to live out the rest of my life... scared, panicked, unsure, self-loathing because no one wants me. I'm so abhorent to be attached to.
Ouch ... It hurts me to hear that .... You have some much compassion ... and wisdom ... and caring .... I see it all here on this forum .... so there's some negative emotion in there ... we all have it .... but it's not the entire story ....
Can I ask, why not a CBT? I've had experience with both psychodynamic and CBT ... and men and women .... I tend to do better with men ... they are much more action oriented .... I felt like I got really screwed up with the psychodynamic T .... but that was just one experience and maybe it was her .... or maybe me .... who knows? Did you have a bad experience with a CBT?
Thanks MH... yeah i feel the same way why can't he fit me in somewhere while i'm in crisis here. I'm such a mess and feel so alone and isolated because "outside" people just don't understand what I'm feeling. And so I'm angry at him for not caring enough and then I think... why should he care he does not even know me and I'm nobody... I'm nobody to everybody it seems. OldT would give me appointments all the time. I rarely had to wait more than a day for an appointment. He knew why I needed one and he was there...well until he abandoned me. So I guess my brain is saying... oldT was there and abandoned me and newT isn't even available to me and it makes me even more sure he will just up and walk away from me. There is no reason for him to keep me as a patient.
Aside from that I'm just angry at everything and especially him because he is not my oldT.
DF... thanks for your kind words.
Sheychen... yeah these are my feelings and no T no matter how perfect and wonderful and amazing will ever replace my T in all his perfect imperfections. I'm sorry for being so upset at what you wrote but this is so damn hard and I know you know that. But you have had more therapy than I have and have experienced changing Ts from what you wrote and maybe you are just more resilient than I am in these matters as you seem to be able to end the bad relationship and move on. I was not able to walk away first. I should have.
Liese... I avoid CBT because this type of therapy does not work for those with trauma and abuse backgrounds. CBT does not delve into the past to look at why you feel the way you do today or why you became who you are today. CBT Ts do not like attachment nor do they understand or use transference in therapy. Most trauma survivors need to attach and use the relationship to heal themselves. As Yalom says "it's the relationship that heals". Many of us were hurt interpersonally, through relationships with our first caregivers and so we need to learn and experience something new and corrective and better with our Ts. If the T avoids the emotional intimacy that comes with attachment and transference there will be problems in the therapy.
My oldT was eclectic... meaning some behavioral, some psychdynamic, some interpersonal therapy. Whenever he would revert to the CBT type stuff, we would have a rupture in the relationship. It would just put me off and upset me because he just wanted to tell me what to do or change and not hear me and what I had to say about WHY I was feeling the way I was.
TN
Aside from that I'm just angry at everything and especially him because he is not my oldT.
DF... thanks for your kind words.
Sheychen... yeah these are my feelings and no T no matter how perfect and wonderful and amazing will ever replace my T in all his perfect imperfections. I'm sorry for being so upset at what you wrote but this is so damn hard and I know you know that. But you have had more therapy than I have and have experienced changing Ts from what you wrote and maybe you are just more resilient than I am in these matters as you seem to be able to end the bad relationship and move on. I was not able to walk away first. I should have.
Liese... I avoid CBT because this type of therapy does not work for those with trauma and abuse backgrounds. CBT does not delve into the past to look at why you feel the way you do today or why you became who you are today. CBT Ts do not like attachment nor do they understand or use transference in therapy. Most trauma survivors need to attach and use the relationship to heal themselves. As Yalom says "it's the relationship that heals". Many of us were hurt interpersonally, through relationships with our first caregivers and so we need to learn and experience something new and corrective and better with our Ts. If the T avoids the emotional intimacy that comes with attachment and transference there will be problems in the therapy.
My oldT was eclectic... meaning some behavioral, some psychdynamic, some interpersonal therapy. Whenever he would revert to the CBT type stuff, we would have a rupture in the relationship. It would just put me off and upset me because he just wanted to tell me what to do or change and not hear me and what I had to say about WHY I was feeling the way I was.
TN
Hi TN, Well, the only problem I see with the old T is that even though he was available easily, he also became unavailable easily .... New T might have some good strong boundaries ...I suspect new T wouldn't end things the way old T did ... . My last T was psychodynamic and she had loose boundaries ... she didn't do me any favors having loose boundaries ... my new T has tight tight boundaries but I do think that's what I need in order to heal .... He is a CBT but he seems willing to work on all my issues with me .... the attachment and trauma issues .... I told him that it should really be called CBET (they need to include the emotions in there) .... I think he understands only too well the role emotions play in this whole thing ....
He took me in when I was running from psychodynamic lady and he's been so damn reliable for 3 years, I can't even tell you .... the other one was like a magician, the book is up in the air, no it's down on the floor ... my head was spinning .....
You are right, he does not like to dwell on the past ... I think he let me cry for several months but then he told me it was time to move on .... and trust me, he was very empathic while I was crying .... His point is that the past comes up in the present and that's how we heal ... we can't change the past by talking about it ... so it's not that he doesn't know that the past influences the present .... he knows it all too well ... he looks at it from a neurological stance and a learning stance and I have to say I agree with him ..... our brains need to change ... and knowing something intellectually isn't the way to change because we are still being influenced by our emotions ....
Do I still want him to care about me and my emotions and my trauma? Yes I do .... And I hope he does ....
Just food for thought TN .....
He took me in when I was running from psychodynamic lady and he's been so damn reliable for 3 years, I can't even tell you .... the other one was like a magician, the book is up in the air, no it's down on the floor ... my head was spinning .....
You are right, he does not like to dwell on the past ... I think he let me cry for several months but then he told me it was time to move on .... and trust me, he was very empathic while I was crying .... His point is that the past comes up in the present and that's how we heal ... we can't change the past by talking about it ... so it's not that he doesn't know that the past influences the present .... he knows it all too well ... he looks at it from a neurological stance and a learning stance and I have to say I agree with him ..... our brains need to change ... and knowing something intellectually isn't the way to change because we are still being influenced by our emotions ....
Do I still want him to care about me and my emotions and my trauma? Yes I do .... And I hope he does ....
Just food for thought TN .....
And I forgot to mention that he just announced we are starting to work on my transference issues ... but I do plan on asking him about that because transference does seem to be a thing associated with psychodynamic but from everything I've read on the internet about transference, it's just too damn important to ignore .... and he'd be incompetent if he didn't know how to deal with it ....
Liese maybe your T is not all CBT and he does have knowledge of transference and how it works. If not, he'd be crazy to work in it because I can get tricky. I don't think my oldT had any idea of how transference worked and he didn't recognize his own counter-transference reactions until he got overwhelmed by them and got scared.
Your old PD lady sounds like a nut case. There truly are incompetent and excentric Ts out there for sure. And unfortunately they can really damage a patient.
I do agree with you on the whole neurobiology slant in therapy. This is a fairly recent addition to treatment and how we look at people. The brain does have plasticity and can be changed. In fact, it has been noted that by just "being" with a stronger wiser other and some one who has their own emotions well regulated we can change our brains and enable it to regulate our emotions as well. General Theory of Love talks about all of this. There is a line in the book that really resonates with me that goes "who you are and who you become depends largely on whom you love". I could feel myself changing through my therapy because my T always seemed so calm when I would be falling apart. Eventually, I started to internalize his behavior during a crisis and would somehow become calm when I used to freak out. Unfortunately, during the last 6 weeks of my therapy my T became sort of out of control and overly emotional which caused me to revert back to the old me.... with emotions totally dysregulated.
You say your T let you cry for months and was totally empathic. Would he talk to you and discuss why you were crying before he decided you needed to move on? Or was he just sitting there waiting for you to stop? Just curious as to how he handled it. My old T would also get emotional when I would cry and he would sometimes get very teary with me. I would feel this intense right brain connection to him and that was so healing and powerful to me. This is what I am so desperately missing from all these new Ts I have been seeing. I sit and cry with NewT and he just sits there waiting. He looks so totally unperturbed and it bothers me and just seems like he is cold and unfeeling.
I truly do want to run from him because this is what scares me. That he just sits there waiting and I'm in horrible pain. He could at least "act" like he feels badly for me. A little empathy would not kill him. And I just feel like he does not have time for me. At this point I'm just too tired and broke to go looking for other Ts. I just don't have the will to go on with a hopeless search when I know deep in my heart that I'm looking for my oldT and unfortunately I will never find him.
TN
Your old PD lady sounds like a nut case. There truly are incompetent and excentric Ts out there for sure. And unfortunately they can really damage a patient.
I do agree with you on the whole neurobiology slant in therapy. This is a fairly recent addition to treatment and how we look at people. The brain does have plasticity and can be changed. In fact, it has been noted that by just "being" with a stronger wiser other and some one who has their own emotions well regulated we can change our brains and enable it to regulate our emotions as well. General Theory of Love talks about all of this. There is a line in the book that really resonates with me that goes "who you are and who you become depends largely on whom you love". I could feel myself changing through my therapy because my T always seemed so calm when I would be falling apart. Eventually, I started to internalize his behavior during a crisis and would somehow become calm when I used to freak out. Unfortunately, during the last 6 weeks of my therapy my T became sort of out of control and overly emotional which caused me to revert back to the old me.... with emotions totally dysregulated.
You say your T let you cry for months and was totally empathic. Would he talk to you and discuss why you were crying before he decided you needed to move on? Or was he just sitting there waiting for you to stop? Just curious as to how he handled it. My old T would also get emotional when I would cry and he would sometimes get very teary with me. I would feel this intense right brain connection to him and that was so healing and powerful to me. This is what I am so desperately missing from all these new Ts I have been seeing. I sit and cry with NewT and he just sits there waiting. He looks so totally unperturbed and it bothers me and just seems like he is cold and unfeeling.
I truly do want to run from him because this is what scares me. That he just sits there waiting and I'm in horrible pain. He could at least "act" like he feels badly for me. A little empathy would not kill him. And I just feel like he does not have time for me. At this point I'm just too tired and broke to go looking for other Ts. I just don't have the will to go on with a hopeless search when I know deep in my heart that I'm looking for my oldT and unfortunately I will never find him.
TN
Hi TN .... Yeah .. my T calls himself a CBT but I do get the sense that he uses whatever he needs to to get the job done .... when i cried for months ... well it was 3 years ago now .... so it's hard to remember ... i do think he talked some ... but he had this face, like a puppy dog face ... that was so caring .... and he put it on ... and I used to leave feeling soooo good .... and I stared to wonder, why am I feeling soooo good after I leave him so I started to study him and I noticed his puppy dog face and I teased him about it the next time he made it and he smiled .... He is a really really nice guy .... But I do think I agree with you about the emotional stability ... he is so stable and I really think that's what's helped me so much ... the other one really was a nut ... one time I told her I was leaving her out of self-preservation and she started to cry real tears and said that she knows she's a better than average therapist .... it was so bizarre that it stopped me in my tracks .... I just can't even imagine this guy doing this .....
I remember asking him how could I trust him and he told me because he processes his emotions and he stays on top of himself .... and he does ... I give him an Aplus (till next week, when I will be crying to you all, when we start the transference work)
But I do think that a T with strong boundaries is good ... and my T tells me it's good he's busy because it means he's good (well, he doesn't say it that way, he talks about his 25 years experience) .... He is in high demand ... He never tells me how to feel (my other T did that) and he always acts surprised when I share something with him even though I know he knows .... I never feel him cross my boundaries (except recently with the tranference stuff where I felt stomped all over) .... He is so respectful .... and I really get the sense that he treats everyone with respect and has tremendous control over his emotions ....
I love that he's into the latest brain research .... he is so very very smart .... and he's into buddhism .... which he exposed me to .... I just feel lucky ... (till next week) ....
I will ask him about his experience with transference and let you know what he says ....
I remember asking him how could I trust him and he told me because he processes his emotions and he stays on top of himself .... and he does ... I give him an Aplus (till next week, when I will be crying to you all, when we start the transference work)
But I do think that a T with strong boundaries is good ... and my T tells me it's good he's busy because it means he's good (well, he doesn't say it that way, he talks about his 25 years experience) .... He is in high demand ... He never tells me how to feel (my other T did that) and he always acts surprised when I share something with him even though I know he knows .... I never feel him cross my boundaries (except recently with the tranference stuff where I felt stomped all over) .... He is so respectful .... and I really get the sense that he treats everyone with respect and has tremendous control over his emotions ....
I love that he's into the latest brain research .... he is so very very smart .... and he's into buddhism .... which he exposed me to .... I just feel lucky ... (till next week) ....
I will ask him about his experience with transference and let you know what he says ....
But I did have that bad T, and I know how it feels ....She did not manage me well, I don't think. I really thought we were going to be friends and I didn't know anything about transference at the time so I was taken for a huge surprise when the shit hit the fan and I was terribly embarrassed ....
It sounds like your old T wasn't doing a good job of managing your transference as well as his own ..something they are supposed to do so that things don't get out of control ... which basically means he was getting something out of your therapy ... and it shouldn't be that way ..... it ultimately winds up hurting you ... which is exactly what happened .... so maybe in the end, who cares what type they practice, just look for warm and caring and tight boundaries ....
But only when you're ready .... and I know it hurts ....
It's like the parent who can't say know because they want to be loved ... they aren't doing the child any favors by indulging them .... yeah it feels good to the child at the time but the long term consequences are damaging ....
A parting wish to the universe that we all find some peace today ....
It sounds like your old T wasn't doing a good job of managing your transference as well as his own ..something they are supposed to do so that things don't get out of control ... which basically means he was getting something out of your therapy ... and it shouldn't be that way ..... it ultimately winds up hurting you ... which is exactly what happened .... so maybe in the end, who cares what type they practice, just look for warm and caring and tight boundaries ....
But only when you're ready .... and I know it hurts ....
It's like the parent who can't say know because they want to be loved ... they aren't doing the child any favors by indulging them .... yeah it feels good to the child at the time but the long term consequences are damaging ....
A parting wish to the universe that we all find some peace today ....
and at the end of the day, even though we all think new T sounds solid, if you are really uncomfortable with new T, then you have to go with your gut ... and hopefully when you have the strength to look again ... you will .... Maybe you could ask new T for some recommendations .... just tell him nothing personal ... after my last experience, I will only go on recommendation ... my gut isn't that trustworthy ... i keep making the same mistakes over and over ....
Liese I don't think I'd be able to find a better T right now. I went through 5 before settling here. It has been the most painful experience I ever lived through. Each time I walk into a Ts office I'm reminded all over again of why I'm there and who they are not. It forces me to face what happened to me each time and to try to come to terms with the abandonment. I never feel safe in any office and I'm always looking at the door. I have anger at the T and of course at myself for finding myself in this most unbelieveable situation. I truly think I'm still in some kind of shock over this.
From what I've read patients who were abruptly and harshly abandoned by their Ps/Ts go through much of the same stuff. The not trusting anyone, the anger at new Ts, the self-blame, the dissociation, the sadness, the fear and panic and nightmares. Sometimes you wonder how you can still be alive after the kind of pain you are in.
NewT is going to have to be very strong to hang on to this therapy with me. I am angry and hostile about therapy and non-trusting. I cannot bear any person to be close to me or to touch me right now. People seem dangerous. I want to isolate myself and hide and the worst is just not having any hope that this will ever be better or that i will ever be able to come back from such a hellish place.
I know I need therapy but how can I trust the process that has so badly damaged me?
And .. new T never could squeeze me in and so I guess I will have to wait again until Tuesday. Things are bad and dark and bleak for me right now and once a week is nothing...
I hope things work out with your T. Sounds like he is busy and must be for a reason... that he's a good T. I know the waiting is hard...
TN
From what I've read patients who were abruptly and harshly abandoned by their Ps/Ts go through much of the same stuff. The not trusting anyone, the anger at new Ts, the self-blame, the dissociation, the sadness, the fear and panic and nightmares. Sometimes you wonder how you can still be alive after the kind of pain you are in.
NewT is going to have to be very strong to hang on to this therapy with me. I am angry and hostile about therapy and non-trusting. I cannot bear any person to be close to me or to touch me right now. People seem dangerous. I want to isolate myself and hide and the worst is just not having any hope that this will ever be better or that i will ever be able to come back from such a hellish place.
I know I need therapy but how can I trust the process that has so badly damaged me?
And .. new T never could squeeze me in and so I guess I will have to wait again until Tuesday. Things are bad and dark and bleak for me right now and once a week is nothing...
I hope things work out with your T. Sounds like he is busy and must be for a reason... that he's a good T. I know the waiting is hard...
TN
Hi TN ... There's no reason you have to look for a new T right now ... I wish I could say something really profound that would take away your pain ... but I know I can't .... Maybe we can just struggle together with our busy T's .... I am so proud of you, though ... I know this has been extremely difficult dealing with your old T ...and I don't think I could handle it any better than you - knowing how I reacted when my old T simply double booked me, and I just spent a day in bed when my new T didn't call me ... He didn't leave me ... he didn't tell me he couldn't see me anymore .... and I couldn't function - and I know it doesn't FEEL like you are handling it ... but you are .... it hurts a lot but you are feeling all the bad stuff .... and not running away from it ..... And those are all good things .... Take your time ... no rush to find a replacement ... How could you trust anyone after that? Who can blame you for feeling the way your feeling? You are absolutely right to be wary ..... Sheychen was mentioning how she was ignoring her, uneasiness - I forget what she called it, about her C .... she was optimistic that it could be worked through but then C was very upfront with her and Sheychen realized she shouldn't have been ignoring those signals .... and you shouldn't either ... People aren't trustworthy .... and the therapists out there, while they may be well-meaning, many of them haven't recovered from their own wounds ... and you have to be careful ..... all of us .... we just can't trust blindly ....
quote:I asked him why he wanted me for a patient since he has a full book and it's not like he NEEDS someone new. He said it's not about a new patient but about how upset he is at what happened to me.
TN ... Even if he doesn't care about you yet ... he wouldn't take you on as a patient if he didn't think he could help you ... or if he didn't think you were someone he could work with ..... If he thought you were irrevocably damaged and beyond repair, he wouldn't have agreed to fit you in .... I started out the same way with my T .... and I had to wait until spots opened up .... they can't ask someone to leave to give me a spot .... but again and again, I'm thinking it's the T with strong boundaries that's going to take you where you need to go - like attachment girls T ... she mentioned that again and again ....
quote:I was connected to oldT immediately. I felt his care and concern immediately. It was a very right brain limbic connection. It was like a magnetic force and I was attached to him immediately.
I bring that quote to your attention because maybe the important lesson here is that trust takes time to build .... that's what new T is trying to tell you .... maybe it wasn't necessarily a good thing that you attached immediately. Just food for thought ....
And Blanket Girl ... I thought your reply was beautiful .... I really loved the story about the 8 appointments .... this guy is as genuine as they come ....
I love what Blanket Girl wrote about the 8 appointments too,
and I think TN has found a really strong genuine T that she can rage at or fling her doubts at and not worry he can't cope.
I too think it is a bit healthier at many levels that this magnatic force connection which you had, TN, with your old T, ISN"T there this time, as that sounds like it was so hugely charged with unconscious wants and needs and votexes of energy and emotion, that a slow steady build up of connection to this trustworthy and stable T will make all the difference. I know you want to say 'NO one will make the difference, no one is like my wonderful ex T" well he was not so wonderful - he left you and abandoned you and did not handle it well even. You know that, we know that, and we feel for you in it, and as you know, I am going through something horribly similar so it is not like I am oblivious to the pain you are in, but you are in deep pain and I hold you in that too with a warmest of hugs.
Both of us have to move in. We can strop all we like and rage at the world and stamp our feet and sob and sob, but we do actually, darn it, (STROP STROP) have to move on. Sigh.
And this T looks like he has what it takes. Keep posting, we care about how you are doing. I really care, as I am in the middle of seeing new T's now. I have gone through three so far and see one today and one tomorrow. Sigh again. I have about ten others lined up so far. I am having to drive an hour to see this one today so half hoping she isn't very good!!
and I think TN has found a really strong genuine T that she can rage at or fling her doubts at and not worry he can't cope.
I too think it is a bit healthier at many levels that this magnatic force connection which you had, TN, with your old T, ISN"T there this time, as that sounds like it was so hugely charged with unconscious wants and needs and votexes of energy and emotion, that a slow steady build up of connection to this trustworthy and stable T will make all the difference. I know you want to say 'NO one will make the difference, no one is like my wonderful ex T" well he was not so wonderful - he left you and abandoned you and did not handle it well even. You know that, we know that, and we feel for you in it, and as you know, I am going through something horribly similar so it is not like I am oblivious to the pain you are in, but you are in deep pain and I hold you in that too with a warmest of hugs.
Both of us have to move in. We can strop all we like and rage at the world and stamp our feet and sob and sob, but we do actually, darn it, (STROP STROP) have to move on. Sigh.
And this T looks like he has what it takes. Keep posting, we care about how you are doing. I really care, as I am in the middle of seeing new T's now. I have gone through three so far and see one today and one tomorrow. Sigh again. I have about ten others lined up so far. I am having to drive an hour to see this one today so half hoping she isn't very good!!
I just found this quote, which speaks volumes to me about how I click with certain people and actually the people who have hurt me the most - I click with -
"We are attracted to people that feel familiar on an energetic level - which means (until we start clearing our emotional process) people that emotionally / vibrationally feel like our parents did when we were very little kids. At a certain point in my process I realized that if I met a woman who felt like my soul mate, that the chances were pretty huge that she was one more unavailable woman that fit my pattern of being attracted to someone who would reinforce the message that I wasn't good enough, that I was unlovable. Until we start releasing the hurt, sadness, rage, shame, terror - the emotional grief energy - from our childhoods we will keep having dysfunctional relationships."
Robert Burnley
http://www.joy2meu.com/emotions.html
"We are attracted to people that feel familiar on an energetic level - which means (until we start clearing our emotional process) people that emotionally / vibrationally feel like our parents did when we were very little kids. At a certain point in my process I realized that if I met a woman who felt like my soul mate, that the chances were pretty huge that she was one more unavailable woman that fit my pattern of being attracted to someone who would reinforce the message that I wasn't good enough, that I was unlovable. Until we start releasing the hurt, sadness, rage, shame, terror - the emotional grief energy - from our childhoods we will keep having dysfunctional relationships."
Robert Burnley
http://www.joy2meu.com/emotions.html