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32 replies

Took a risk...now I'm regretting it.

mtfmtfMember
I saw my T Monday the 12th and finally spilled a little of the stuff about my internet searching, although I don't think she really 'got' it. I asked her how she feels about my knowing her grandchildren's names (the ones in the photographs that sit behind the couch where I sit during my sessions) and I don't think she thought I was serious. She said, "MTF, I don't think you're going to go out and murder my grandchildren, or that you want to harm them. I don't think you're a stalker". She seemed fine with it and gave me the opportunity to ask whatever I wanted to know about her, which of course I didn't do. Just sat there feeling a lot of shame about my attachment issues and why I am so messed up and why I love her and want to know her and why any of her 'stuff' even matters to me. She doesn't get it. I'm a really screwed up mess and for some reason she just can't seem to see it. She wants me to put it all out there, to be "butt honest" (her words!), no more secrets, but I just couldn't during that session. Too much shame. So I decided to write her another letter, only this time I knew I couldn't read it to her or face her with it. She called me yesterday to remind me of my upcoming session on Monday. I guess she has today off. I told her I had a letter for her that I wanted to drop off for her to read. She was concerned that I didn't want to read it to her in session and asked if there was anything she could do to make it safer for me. I told her it wasn't her, it's me and my shame. She asked if I was still going to come Monday and if I would be willing to talk about the letter and what was in it. I told her yes. Now I don't know if can even make myself go, and if I DO go, if I will even be able to speak or look at her at all. I dropped the letter off yesterday right before the office closed. I was hoping she would call me last night, even though as I left the building I kept telling myself that she likely wouldn't and that she didn't owe me a phone call or a response. I know it's stupid to hope for things like that because I'll always be disappointed if I do. The way she talked on the phone yesterday morning even made it clear that she would wait to see me Monday and didn't plan to discuss the letter over the phone, but some of what was in it I had hoped would at least help her finally see where I am really at, and that maybe she would 'hear' how much I'm hurting over all of this and want to at least allay some of my fears so I didn't have to dwell with them for four more days until my session.

The letter was a pretty full disclosure on my part. I've never opened up to anyone I've been attached to like this before. It really scares me that I put myself out there like I did. I told her I know all her kids' names, their ages, their spouses' names, some of her grandchildren's names, where they all live (cities), her parents' names, her husband's parents' names, her and her husband's siblings' names, their spouses' names, that I'd found one of her sisters husband's blog and through that I'd found a niece's and nephew's blogs (of my T's). I could just see her looking like this ---> Eeker as she read all of this. Then I made a joke (stupidly) about how maybe when I grow up I should go to school to be a professional genealogist or private detective, since I've got the process down really well at this point. I doubt she found that funny. Frowner

I told her I feel a lot of shame about myself and my actions. I told her that when she asked me what I want to know about her I just couldn't tell her and I shut down, because honestly I want to know everything about her; who she is, what makes her who she is, what drives her, what her passions in life are, I want to know the REAL her, without the 'therapist's mask'. I told her that all the stuff I've found out in the process of my searching hasn't revealed anything that I have really wanted to know. It hasn't helped me feel more connected, that it's done the opposite because of the shame, fear, and sadness I now feel. I told her that I know that I can't know this stuff, that it's not my right, not my business, not part of therapy, but that I have a really hard time with it anyway. That I both hate and love the boundaries at the same time. Ugh. It's so awful to feel all of this and have nowhere to go with it and no way to resolve it and be rid of it.

I wonder so much if she even GETS any of this, or if she is absolutely clueless. Sometimes I think that unless you have experienced this attachment stuff yourself, there is NO WAY you can even have any clue what it feels like, even if you read books about it and sit in sessions with clients that explain it to you. She has never even explored my feelings with me to try and understand what it is I FEEL. She just knows it's an 'attachment' to her. I'm ready to ask her what she thinks an 'attachment' is, and what she thinks it actually feels like. Maybe I should explain my feelings to her so she knows in no uncertain terms. Of course that is scarier than anything I've put out there yet, and it's really quite hard to define. But how else is she going to know? Do Ts actually understand us? Do they even CARE TO UNDERSTAND US???? I'm starting to wonder if they are too scared of us and our attachments to find out. I worry about freaking my T out with all of this. My biggest fear is that I'm going to go in to her office Monday and she's going to be all withdrawn and distant and that she's going to tell me that she has to transfer me to another therapist because I've disclosed all of this to her and now she sees that I have crossed some boundaries and it's become too 'personal' and she's no longer a 'blank slate' for me (which she never really was, and I don't think she ever intended to be) so it's just not going to work out because I went too far and screwed things up and so now it's over. Frowner I seem to screw things up with every good relationship in my life, just when things start to get to where I get scared because I am moving closer or feeling safer or I'm ready to move to a higher level. I always botch it! Why?!!! I hate this!!!!! I hate myself for it.

I can't decide if I'm glad I put this all out there for her, or not. Part of me is really sick about it. I know that Monday is going to be awful. My session isn't until after noon, so I have the entire morning to stress about it. I HATE that. As it is, I can't get out of my head and I have tons of stuff I need to do. I am so consumed by this stuff with my T it is driving me CRAZY. Maybe I DO need to find another T. My head tells me one thing and my heart tells me another. My T said she thinks that hanging out here on the forums is bad for me. My mom told me that too. I don't know what to believe anymore and my head is such a mess that I can't even think clearly. Sometimes I wish I could just put myself in the hospital until I get myself straightened out so that I at least didn't have to deal with 'life' while I'm trying to deal with my head, depression, anxiety, and my T troubles. A husband, kids, a household and all the rest of life just complicates things tenfold! UGHHH!!! Frowner

Sorry to be so negative. I just had to get this out somewhere neutral. I don't feel I can talk to anyone in my personal life about this stuff and it's so hard. I'm tired of feeling like a freak and feel like the only people that understand me are here. And now I have people telling me that even this place isn't good for me. Frowner
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kashleykashleyMember
Wow, MTF, that is SO incredibly brave of you to be so honest with her. And given the title, until I realized that you hadn't met with her, I was so worried that you got a negative reaction from her! So, on the one hand, part of your post was a huge relief. Razzer

In my opinion, this is a huge point for you in your therapy. Now that EVERYTHING is out there, you can see what your T's reaction is and maybe have a slightly easier time deciding whether she is the right person for you. There's no more imagining what she might say if you told her something. Now that you've told her everything, you can know for sure.

From reading about other things your T has said and done, I get the impression that she will be fine with it and will reassure you that your honesty is best for both of you. Also, I read in a recent article that therapists really do expect clients to google them. It is their responsibility to monitor what kind of personal information is on the internet and even to warn their family members that clients may find personal information about them. You can read the article here.

You know, sometimes I think of this forum as group therapy, because it has the main aspect of letting people know that they aren't alone. That other people have similar problems. Psh, I know this is much better than my actual group therapy! Razzer

Hang in there through the weekend! And to kill time before sessions, I do some sort of work. I'll clean or get ahead on school work...just something that will get my mind focused on something else so that I forget about the clock for a while.
seablueseablueMember
Oh my goodness. You poor poor thing - I don't even know where to start. I hope this does not come across the wrong way - I just KNOW how it feels to get so tightly wound that it doesn't seem possible to find a shred of clarity. MTF, please try to step back and BREATHE. I could hear the panic and anxiety so loudly as I read your post and can actually feel it myself right now. I have been there and I get it!

You disclosed some things that are very scary to you - so much so that you felt unable to do it in person. OF COURSE you would start reeling about it. OF COURSE you would question whether you should have followed through with it. OF COURSE you would want her to call you. OF COURSE the waiting is making you crazy. OF COURSE there are 12,000 possible scenarios (99.9% of them negative) running through you mind right now!

What strikes me the most is that your T is asking, almost begging (butt honest, no more secrets) from what I gather in your post for you to tell her everything you want to or are able to tell her. If she was not prepared to handle all of it, it seems unlikely that she would ask for that kind of honesty from you. It does seem like she really wants to understand you. You might be right - she may be surprised at the lengths you (and you are not alone in the boat Wink ) have gone to in your search for answers about who she is. But, I think the important piece you may not be hearing, but speaks loudly to me when I read our posts about her, is that all of that stuff won't change how she appears to feel about wanting to help you, and the care she appears to feel for you. It almost seems like because she hasn't left you yet, you are feeling like she must not be hearing you and because you feel so shameful about yourself right now you are unable to accept that she IS HEARING YOU AND she is still NOT LEAVING YOU.

I have wondered so many times how much my T gets and whether it is possible from someone who has not been through something to actually 'get it' in a way that we need them to. I DO believe they care about understanding us. I think the dedication your T appears to have reflects that she does really want to help and understand you. The fact that she is Asking you to be "Butt honest" tells me that she is NOT afraid of you or your feelings!

Is it possible for you to congratulate yourself for making such a brave move? You really deserve it! You went into this very thoughtfully - a big part of you knew this was the right time for you to do it. Listen to yourself. You are not failing yourself in any way by being honest!

About the forum - I think there are a ton of really unhealthy online places/forums/sites out there. But, I think this forum is filled with really beautiful, thoughtful and insightful people. You can find every extreme and every in-between online. You just have to trust yourself to know what is right for you. Your T and mom may be worried that your anxiety is being magnified by this forum. They may not see the wonderful support it provides - maybe you could share that part with them. It gives all of us another HEALTHY place to reach out to ask for support. We may all joke about our wanting our T's to cross boundaries for us, but from what I gather all of us know we don't really want that. We have a good sense of what is good for us.

I hope you can feel a little better and see in yourself the strength and courage that I see.
(((HUGS)))
amazonamazonMember
MTF,I believe she is not calling not because she is mad at you, butbecause it is better if you talk about such important disclosure face to face.

I believe they do know and do understand the attachment and what it must be like. After all they've been through their own therapy and it must have been also scary and painfull at times,and surely they must have been so attached to their own Ts.
My T told me he has done 600 hours of his therapy. That must have been pretty intense.
So I belive they understand and care.
But yes, I do think also sometimes that my T must be tired with my attachment to him, that this is a burden for him, that he may be annoyed with me and my attachment hanging of him all the time (even though it's just an hour a week).

I imagine it must be a very long and tiring weekend for you now. And scary...
yes, I don't know if hanging on the forums is good or bad, but there are different forums. Some of them are full of abusive people and this is not the case here.
I just want to add that I still think you don't need to look for another T.

hugs to you

take care
mtfmtfMember
Thank you so much, ladies. This kind of support is exactly why I love to come here. When I'm down and I feel like I'm literally at the end of my rope, I get encouragement, support, and oftentimes a completely different perspective on my situation and it really helps me to change my outlook on things. Smiler

Dragonfly:

quote:
No one in my family understand it or my friends and my husband certainly doesn't. he asked me the other night if i think i might be a lesbian and wanted a freaking divorce!!!! Frowner its kinda funny really i guess in a warped kinda way!!


I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this. I remember in junior high school wondering if I was a lesbian because I was 'in love' with (really just very strongly attached to) a few of my female teachers. It was so hard to question my sexuality at that age and wonder why I had such strong attachments to women. Now I know, but yeah, I wonder if my husband wonders about me! Wink I'm sorry your husband actually asked you that, though. THAT isn't funny. Frowner

quote:
.its that same thing like when you look at one of your friends and you know who they are.. their true personality and character. you'd know what to buy them for christams or know what they would think about a certain subject.
I'm trying to think if this has anything to do with my attachment to my mother. if i was this frustrated with her and never knowing her in that way............actually , i never knew her either!! holy cow!!!both of them, its the uncertainty of who they are,how to love them, what they want from me,how i can please them..............cos i dont know them!!! thing is ,MTF, i dont think we are gonna find it out from face book.The only thing we are going to get is a tiny bit of relief from the pain of the transference when we are looking at those photos or at those dates of birthdays........its a short lived thing before the fear of loosing them kicks back in again and the shame of being so insecure and needing to be loved and wanting to know about thier lives outside of that bloody room .


Yep. That pretty much sums it up. Thank you for your reply. It makes me feel better that you understand me and I'm not alone in this. I appreciate very much your encouragement, too. Smiler And I'm sorry to disappoint, but I've done more than my fair share of T searching--enough to last me a lifetime--so I'll have to pass up the request to help you search on yours! Wink


K:

Thanks for your kind compliment. I don't know whether to think I was brave or stupid, though. I guess I'll find out on Monday! Wink

quote:
In my opinion, this is a huge point for you in your therapy. Now that EVERYTHING is out there, you can see what your T's reaction is and maybe have a slightly easier time deciding whether she is the right person for you. There's no more imagining what she might say if you told her something. Now that you've told her everything, you can know for sure.


I agree, and even though I know this is where I needed to go several weeks ago, it's been so hard for me to get here. I know I've been resisting because of the fear. So I guess it's good that I'm out of the woods now, but I'm just scared that the results aren't going to be what I need them to be. I have to tell myself that it will be positive either way. Thank you for helping me see more clearly here, and I'll try to distract myself with something else like you suggested to keep my mind off the time. Thanks, K! Smiler


Seablue:

Deep breath taken. Thank you for the reminder! Wink

quote:
What strikes me the most is that your T is asking, almost begging (butt honest, no more secrets) from what I gather in your post for you to tell her everything you want to or are able to tell her. If she was not prepared to handle all of it, it seems unlikely that she would ask for that kind of honesty from you. It does seem like she really wants to understand you. You might be right - she may be surprised at the lengths you (and you are not alone in the boat Wink ) have gone to in your search for answers about who she is. But, I think the important piece you may not be hearing, but speaks loudly to me when I read our posts about her, is that all of that stuff won't change how she appears to feel about wanting to help you, and the care she appears to feel for you. It almost seems like because she hasn't left you yet, you are feeling like she must not be hearing you and because you feel so shameful about yourself right now you are unable to accept that she IS HEARING YOU AND she is still NOT LEAVING YOU.


WOW!! Thank you SO MUCH for that. It struck me pretty forcefully that you could see all of that and it makes sense and feels right. I'm hoping you're right, because I really need this to be right. I think she'll still be there, but I am sure she's pretty shocked at what I have found and just the fact that I've been searching for stuff to this extent. I think I just fear that now that she knows how 'scary' I am and that I really am a 'freak', she's going to run, ya know?

Thank you for bringing me back to reality! It's so good to have someone ground me when I get so crazy in my head that I can't see clearly, and it's nice to be understood. That was a blessing, seablue. Thank you! Smiler


Amazon:

I agree about it being important to talk about this face to face, even though I don't think I will be able to even look her in the eye. Talking on the phone about something like this wouldn't be very productive.

That's amazing that your T has done over 600 hours of his own therapy! That's a lot of sessions! It's good to know that he's been through it himself though, and hopefully can better understand what you are going through, at least on a little bit better level.

I'm glad you don't think I need to look for another T. I don't want to see anyone else. I really want this to work out, even though I feel so much shame and don't want to even face her on Monday. I feel in my heart that she is the T I am supposed to be seeing right now. I hope she feels the same way. Thank you for your kind reply to me! Smiler It means a lot!


MTF
mayomayoMember
Hey MTF,
Yea I know very well the hell hole you were in when you first posted; I was there my self last week. - so much so that I could have written your post. The anguish sucks.
For me- my lesson is to stick my neck out there- without having the answers, and hope AND PRAY (don't forget- prayer, God has very, very big shoulders no matter how you define him) that my T is strong enough to catch me when I fall. I told him at the very beginning that he would need to be very strong to deal with my shit, and if he thought he couldn't, he would need to tell me, and then I would leave. My T is a trauma specialist among other things. By the way you describe your T- it sounds like she has serious training in this area. (and Attachment Girl knows all about this stuff) For me- the shame was my baggage, from my sad past which I am still unraveling.
He is proving to be just that strong even though I have not seen him since the "big disconnect". I will see him on Monday. I write him letters(snail Mail) he read them and we discuss them in session. This is how therapy works for me. It is kind of like I am giving him homework, and something to think about in between sessions. It works for me.
I will read the thread later- as a baby shower awaits.
I just want you to hang in there. and many many hugs are for you- from me.
Helle

Talk to you later
Last edited by mayo
mtfmtfMember
Hi Helle,

Thanks for your post. You are right; God does have big shoulders! He always manages to answer my prayers, and it's always through someone he sends my way in life--right now that is most likely my T. She does a LOT of trauma work, as she works in a hospital outpatient psych. clinic and even does on-call stuff in the ER when needed. I'm sure she can handle me, I think I just can't handle me! Wink Yeah, the shame is my baggage, too. It sucks. I feel a lot of shame for my attachment to my T, and wonder if she even understands my attachment to her, as we've never discussed my feelings for her, and I honestly don't know if I could even verbalize them because of my shame (and we're not even talking erotic/romantic feelings, just attachment/love/maternal transference feelings).

I'm glad you can write to your T and do therapy that way. I can disclose SO MUCH through writing, but verbalizing is an entirely different story. I feel I just told her about ten sessions worth of stuff in one letter! Big Grin Maybe she realized that herself, as she told me last session I have difficulty disclosing, so I know she sees it, too. Good luck at your session tomorrow! And thanks for reaching out!

MTF
pippipippiMember
Just wanted to let you know that you are nowhere close to being alone on this. The things that you mentioned you searched on your T, I have all that information and more on my P. I even had to tell him that not only did I search for him and his family on facebook that I actually became friends with both his daughters so that I could see pictures of him and get more info about him. I even became friends with nephews and relatives from his exwifes side of the family just to have any connection at all. I had the session with him several months ago where I just came out and told him everything. I wrote a couple important things I needed to tell him, not really planning on telling him everything, but by the end of the session he convinced me to put everything out there in the open. It was one of the hardest sessions I had ever done and I was so scared that the minute it came out of my mouth what I had done he would kick me out and never want to see me again. But we talked about it, he said it was very common for patients to do that and he was very understanding and then told me to never do it again. But also said that he knew at some point I would and we would deal with it when that time comes. And this is from a P that had stopped seeing me once before and I didnt see him for a couple of years before he took me back as a patient so I had every reason to believe that I could screw up and get him to stop seeing me. And not only have I done all that stuff but I have hung out in his neighborhood, made friends with neighbors, created my own lawn service and only did work in his neighborhood, almost got into a fight with his wife (now exwife) and texted, called and emailed on an almost daily basis. I dont think anyone could have done more stuff to their P or crossed more boundaries with their P than I have. But I will be thinking about you tomorrow when you are suppose to have the session.

For me writing has always been the easy part, its going in there afterwards or letting them read it with me sitting there that is so hard for me and the talking after they have read it, hope it goes better for you and isnt as hard of a time as I usually have.
pippipippiMember
oh yeah, and the one other thing I did: I went into my session on Thursday to see my P and he said that I had been doing pretty good with not calling and texting all the time. He told me good job and then turns around and says "but you did request to be my friend on facebook." Caught me by surprise because I found his account like 6 months ago and knew that he never got on there (at least that is what he says) so I requested his friendship to see if that was true and figured it was since I did not get declined or hear anything about it from him for this long. Was a little embarrassing and I felt a little shame about it because the reason I did it was for the reason I mentioned about but also because I wanted to see if he was lying or not about hardly ever checking his email. I guess he wasnt since he didnt read the email saying I requested his friendship until 6 months later Red Face
mtfmtfMember
Hi friends!

Thanks for asking about my session--it means a lot. Smiler It went well actually. I guess you are probably not surprised, and after I thought about it for a while (and after I read everyone's encouraging and supportive posts--thank you!) I felt that my T would likely handle things well, although I wasn't totally sure. I really need to have more confidence in her, and after her response to me today, I know that I can! Big Grin

When she came out to get me I was pretty panicky. My heart was pounding and I felt like my heart was in my throat. She called my name and as I walked toward the door I couldn't even look at her. She put her arm around my shoulders and told me to take a deep breath. She said she was glad that I came. I couldn't say anything, I just kept looking straight ahead trying not to fall over my own feet as we walked down the hallway together. I could see her out of my peripheral vision watching my face as we walked down the hall. She seemed really concerned about how I was doing.

As soon as I sat down and she closed the door and took her seat she tried to get me to look at her (which I couldn't) while she told me that she was really impressed with how much integrity I had and that she doesn't know many people that would have been honest enough to put that stuff out there. She was glad that I did, knowing I didn't have to and said that it shows her that I am really committed to healing and to working on my attachment issues. She told me that the stuff I had found online was stuff that was out there for anyone to find and was the problem of whomever had put it out there (meaning her family) and that they have to be willing to accept that people can see it if they put it there. She didn't seem pleased that I knew what I did, but she didn't say anything that made me feel bad, and she told me she doesn't see me as a stalker or someone who wants to hurt her or her family. I told her in my letter that I didn't want to scare her, and she said she isn't scared of me or my attachment to her. She understands that it's all attachment stuff and she really wants me to see it for what it is and stop beating myself up for it. She said what I did with the searching was a boundary crossing, but that is all it was. She told me that she forgives me, and wants me to forgive myself, and that my letter was a really good repair of the relationship. We spent a while discussing this because I have a hard time with forgiving myself. She wanted to do some EMDR on it, but I really didn't want to have to focus more intently on the whole thing at that moment, as I was uncomfortable enough with it as it was.

She asked me how likely I am to do any searching again, and I told her I was done, that it makes me feel like I want to puke. She said that's good, that I have a negative response to an addictive type behavior (my compulsion component of my OCD type stuff) and that will help me to break the behavior. (It's probably going to be harder now that it's not a secret, so maybe I should have her ask me if I'm searching so I know I'm going to have some accountability. Hmmm.)

She complimented me on my writing, which made me feel good. She paid me a few other compliments and I feel that my T really cares about me, and wants to help me with my issues. I am finally feeling like she understands me and now that I have opened up to her and decided to put it all out there, things are really going somewhere between us. I feel a lot more connected to her, and I am able to open up more easily. She seems much more attuned to me now than she ever has, and I know that the reason she wasn't before was because I wasn't disclosing and being open with her so she didn't actually 'see' me or know what was going on inside. I think I was expecting her to read my mind or something, and of course she can't do that! Wink

We've decided that my biggest issues are primary relationships, meaning the one with my husband and those with my parents. So I have some homework with my DH, and I'm going to start slow and small because there's a lot of work to do and it's going to take a while, but I think this is where my focus needs to be and a big reason why I am so focused on my T and wanting so much from her--I'm lacking emotional support and connection in big relationships in my life. It doesn't fix the issues with my T Frowner , but I know eventually things will get better and my attachment to her will lessen as my needs are met through others in my life. And she is still there to 'love' and support me and give me what she can in the ways she can. I got a big hug from her which felt really good, and she even gave me three chocolates out of her secret stash in an attempt to make me feel better on the way out. Big Grin I am feeling very much at peace tonight, and it is a good feeling. I hope it lasts! Wink With my spinning mind, who knows! LOL!!

Thanks again for all of your support, ladies. Pippi, thanks for your comments, too. I haven't had time to respond to them individually, but I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me. You all are so great, and I feel so blessed to have this place to come to for support when I need it. THANK YOU!! Smiler

HUGS!
MTF
jonesjonesMember
WOW MTF! I'm so glad you wrote all of that down - it sounds like you have made amazing progress just in this session - but I know all the extremely tough stuff leading up to this session was just as much part of the process, too.
quote:
She seems much more attuned to me now than she ever has, and I know that the reason she wasn't before was because I wasn't disclosing and being open with her so she didn't actually 'see' me or know what was going on inside. I think I was expecting her to read my mind or something, and of course she can't do that!


Yes, yes, yes! I've had to come to this realisation a few times - I'm sure I will again - it is crucial to the relationship and the progress. When we hide what's really hurting us, there is so little opportunity for that to be healed.

Love how much you clarified the goals and the function of the attachment. Good for you, girl!

J
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
MTF

Smiler Big Grin Wink Razzer Cool Smiler Big Grin Wink Razzer Cool

That's really awesome. I believe this is how the real healing happens, when we dare to show our true selves and all our feelings and are met, against all expectations, with understanding, compassion and acceptance. You can break an arm patting yourself on the back now! It's takes an awesome amount of courage to do what you did, and you deserve to feel good about yourself for doing it.

AG
strummergirlstrummergirlMember
Hi MTF! I just wanted to add my congratulations to the others! I'm thrilled for you that all your hard work of being so honest and real with your T is paying off in the form of a solid therapeutic relationship where you can feel safe enough to do the work. I am really looking forward to hearing about where it goes from here. There is no stopping you now! Great job MTF!!!! Big Grin Smiler Big Grin

By the way, I especially like how you describe your sessions in such detail...it felt like I was right there with you. As I was reading it, and your T kept saying the "right" things, I kept saying "Yes! Yes! Yes!" Big Grin Thank you for sharing it!

SG
mtfmtfMember
Thanks everyone for the kind comments. I felt great the day after my session, kind of on a 'high' I guess, then the next day I was a little lower, then today (which is actually now yesterday) was almost back to my usual spinning. Notice I said 'almost' because I am still doing better than I was before I spilled my guts to my T about the internet stuff, but there's still stuff eating away at me. Frowner

Part of me is bugged that she let me off the hook so easily. Is that weird? I feel like she should have been disappointed at the very least, but I was expecting some anger, shock, disgust--something. I know that's why I should have told her in person, as her reaction is what I really needed to witness in the moment that it happened, but I chickened out big time. I was surprised that all she said was that what I did was cross a boundary and that was all it was. Maybe what really bothers me about her reaction is that it feels like she's not getting the fact that I have boundary issues and that I have been doing my best to keep that from her because I am well aware of it from my relationship with my physical therapist neighbor and don't want any of that stuff coming out in my relationship with HER. It caused me a lot of pain and shame, so why would I be stupid enough to bring it out in therapy?

I'm also really getting frustrated with the fact that she STILL seems to be avoiding my feelings for her. We have NEVER talked about my feelings, meaning how I feel within my attachment to her. She has no idea (other than what she knows about 'attachment issues') about the reality of my feelings for her and seems to downplay their importance in my therapy. She still wants to just focus on fixing my primary relationships (which I know are the real relationships that CAN be fixed in my life, but right now they feel secondary in importance) rather than discuss or deal with the relationship between the two of us and how it is affecting me to be so attached to her. She knows it's affecting me negativeley, but there's no discussion about any of it. It's like she assumes that she knows through some means I am unaware of. Roll Eyes Is this normal? Should I push through my overwhelming shame and try to discuss this with her anyway, or just drop it?

I am REALLY uncomfortable discussing my feelings with my T, and maybe she is aware of this and doesn't want to push me. I don't know. I want to believe that's a big part of it, but I mostly feel my T just doesn't want to deal with the feelings/emotions part of my attachment issues. She is always so much more about the procedural stuff than the process part of therapy. It's more about the 'whys' (i.e. "you feel this way because this happened when you were a child") rather than the 'hows' and 'thats' (i.e. I never hear things like "how does that make you feel?" or "the fact that you feel that way tells me a lot about you and what's going on inside you."). I guess I wonder if I'm just going to be going around in circles in my therapy and all the while avoiding the main issue (attachment stuff). I know she's trying to help me overcome my attachment stuff, but I guess I feel like until I can get to the source of my attachment issues and resolve them and create a new belief system about attachment and about myself, I'm not going to be able to move forward in life, or especially in therapy. I don't want to stay stuck here forever, know what I mean? It's awful to be sitting in this place and wondering if I'm here on a permanent basis! UGH!!!

Anyway, I am just venting because I'm spinning again and wishing it was May 5th already. That's when I see my T again. Just saw her Monday and it feels like it's been 3 weeks instead of 3 days. Frowner I hate attachment issues...

MTF
strummergirlstrummergirlMember
Hi MTF and Monte,

I just want to pop in here and say I think you both are articulating this really well. Helping you understand what your feelings are saying about you is exactly what is needed. Unfortunately I think what happens is some T's don't understand (as well as they need to, anyway) that your feelings for them (at least the really strong, overwhelming ones) aren't really about "them". On some level they are possibly taking it personally, and it makes them frightened or uncomfortable...so they avoid talking about it and instead focus on "safer" subjects like your other relationships. But I don't think it is a rejection of you...although I know it feels that way (because I went through it with my former T)...I think they are maybe confused and aren't sure how to proceed.

I wonder what would happen if you asked your T's if they've ever helped anyone else through feelings like this? Do they think your feelings are really about them, or do they think they're symbolic? MTF, I like the possible questions you proposed of "how does that make you feel?" or "the fact that you feel that way tells me a lot about you and what's going on inside you." When I talk about my feelings for my T (or my former T), my T asks me "What does that remind you of?" or "Does that feel familiar to how you felt at another time in your life?"

An example of how this has helped me so far is that I've started to recognize that my former T had a trait that my father also has, and it was a very significant one in our relationship. I never would have guessed that my former T reminded me of my dad. But it was in exploring my feelings the way you described that I discovered that. And so now I am able to look more closely at my relationship with my dad and how that affected me, because it was "recreated" in the therapy with my former T. So it really does work.

So FWIW, I think you both are on the right track and have a really clear idea of what you need from your T's. I hope you can bring this up with them.

SG
mayomayoMember
Hi MTF,

This is how my T explained it to me when i told him everything about how I was feeling about him. This was early on in therapy and I had no idea about how therapy worked, and I did not know him all that well, but I knew I was in love with him. All kind of ways in love with him. My attitude was- "hey- I am paying him a lot of money, and if he can't handle the absolute worst of my shit, then I will find someone else who can. Yes I was testing him big time. So I was blatently honest about how I felt for him. He explained to me that therapy- is an intimate process, and when 2 people work that intimately- feelings are bound to happen. His words- "Your a pretty descent looking woman, and I am a descent looking guy and we are about the same age, and we are human. Also intimacy wires get crossed so erotic stuff, and deep longing and other- possibly unfullfilled needs all come into play, but they don't have to be acted upon." To which I responed, "no you really don't get it, you don't understand. He assured me that he does- and that sexual desires and intimacy go hand and hand, but this is stuff we will work through. And we are- it is a process though.

You may already know this stuff and you may still be struggling, but I thought I would give you my T's take on the subject.

SG- You have wonderful insights! As sometimes my T is my dad, as well. Especially through the whole anger thing we just went through. In fact he has morphed into being more like my dad as I deal with the inner child stuff as it relates to attachment stuff.

The earlier stuff in therapy was more about sexual abuse from someone else.
mtfmtfMember
Monte

quote:
My T wants to talk about the primary relationships in my childhood ALL THE TIME. I want to talk about my relationship with him, because that for me is an accessable source of grief.


Have you told him verbally that you want to talk to him about your relationship with him, or is this desire still just in your head? Mine is just in my head, although I have told my T that I feel she is avoiding dealing with my attachment to her and that I feel it's because she is uncomfortable about it. She didn't say anything because it was in my letter that I read to her last month and I didn't pause for her to respond at all. Yes, it is an accessible source of grief. I am still asking myself though if I want to access it or not. I do, but is the desire strong enough to face the fear and whatever comes up in the process? I don't know for sure. Eeker

quote:
Uggh...yes, exactly how I feel. I wonder if it even might embarrass him to openly discuss the fact that I, a grown woman, see him as a paternal figure. Like it creeps him or is just so ridiculous he can't bring himself to take it seriously. I want him to say, "I know you are projecting paternal longings on me and I know you understand I can't fill that gap in your life...BUT LETS TALK ABOUT IT. Tell me how it feels and why it hurts blah blah blah..."

Bloody hell, to me it is a no-brainer! This is why I am starting to feel angry with him. I need him to take the lead...push into my discomfort and force me into a corner to discuss it, because there-in lies the key to so much. It's a door into the heart of my pain. He opens every other bloody door but this one. WTF?? WHY?!


I have told my T I don't want her as my mother. She wants me to look at who she reminds me of from my past/present. I can't really put my finger on it. I feel strong maternal longings, so I guess the first sentence of this paragraph is only partly true. It's weird. I don't want her as my friend either, but I do. And yeah, you articulate well the reason for the anger; they need to take the lead and push us because we don't have the guts to push ourselves. Frowner And I agree that the key is there, too. I feel though that because we're never addressing the present pain that we're just circling around the main issue and avoiding it, always dealing with the other stuff, but not getting to the heart of the matter. My T assures me that the attachment/transference will work itself out in the course of therapy, but the fact that you have been seeing your T for as long as you have and still have no resolution doesn't exactly give me a lot of good happy hope that that will be the case unless this stuff gets addressed. Ugh...


SG

quote:
I wonder what would happen if you asked your T's if they've ever helped anyone else through feelings like this? Do they think your feelings are really about them, or do they think they're symbolic? MTF, I like the possible questions you proposed of "how does that make you feel?" or "the fact that you feel that way tells me a lot about you and what's going on inside you." When I talk about my feelings for my T (or my former T), my T asks me "What does that remind you of?" or "Does that feel familiar to how you felt at another time in your life?"


When I read this I realized that my T actually does ask me questions like the ones above, but they don't ever have to do with our relationship (except that she wants to know if she reminds me of anyone Roll Eyes). She wants to compare herself to others in my life and can't accept that she might be someone I am attached to for unique reasons as well as transference issues. I was thinking more about this today and had a thought about it. I wonder if my T just assumes I understand attachment theory (because I've mentioned things about attachment injury and other stuff in session and in my letter, so she knows I know what's wrong with me generally) so she thinks that I know all about attachment theory, how it works, what causes attachment injury, how it plays out in adulthood, and more importantly in therapeutic relationships, and that we both know the 'feelings' involved, so why discuss them? I told her in the letter I dropped off to her last week that I have trouble with my feelings of attachment and their intensity, and that I know that I can't actually 'know' her. I know that she is aware that I realize what she can and can't be in my life and that I have a good handle on boundaries, even though I have crossed a few with the internet searching. She knows I have trouble disclosing as it is, so I wonder if she doesn't want to push me or if, like you said Monte, it would embarrass her to openly discuss my feelings for her as one adult woman for another adult woman. I once told her that I see her as a very well put together person. I wasn't looking at her when I said that, but out of the corner of my eye I saw her hands go up into the air in front of her in defense, sort of like she was about to say that she thought I was wrong, that she isn't that at all, but she caught herself and put her hands back in her lap before I looked at her. Maybe she really doesn't take compliments well. She's sixty six years old and I think she's beautiful. How would that go over if I told her that?! And it's just in a motherly sort of way, like a little girl thinks her mother is the most beautiful woman in the world. It's so humiliating... Frowner Maybe I really don't want to tell her this stuff. Maybe it would make our relationship more uncomfortable and harder and I would have a more difficult time sitting opposite her during sessions and disclosing the things I need to. Maybe she hasn't asked me because in the overall scheme of therapy it doesn't really matter??? Thanks for your insights, SG. I hope I can get to where I can be totally honest with my T and courageous enough to say and ask whatever I need to. That would be such a blessing. Smiler


Monte

quote:
I need to communicate more clearly and courageously. I think that's what our last contact indicated. I think...or do I need to cut my losses and move on? Uggh.


You and me both. That's the hard part, isn't it? I lack clarity in communicating, and courage in communicating, period. And I also struggle with whether or not staying with my T is beneficial to me. Oh the angst and confusion... Frowner I need a new life. Roll Eyes


Helle

I'm glad your T discussed your feelings with you. Sounds like he isn't afraid or uncomfortable with them, and that is so good. I guess what bothers me the most is that I don't KNOW how my T would respond to me if I asked her if we could talk about my feelings. And I'm too scared to bring up the subject. Thanks for sharing your T's perspective. It helps, and I think my T feels the same way, but for me it's like I just have to KNOW, I can't just think or assume I know. Frowner I appreciate your reply. Thanks! Smiler
mtfmtfMember
BB,

I agree with you on the OCD stuff. It's like I just searched and searched until I had all I could find on her and I didn't stop until I knew I had everything I could find. Then it made me sick because I knew that once I told her (which I HAD TO DO) she would see how bad and awful I was and then reject/abandon me. I did want punishment, so that I would know that I really am as bad as I think I am. It's like I'm trying to prove (or disprove?) something I 'know' about myself that I think others know too, but just won't say (that I'm a freak, scary, disgusting, etc.). You're right, there is a great cost involved in this.

MTF
kashleykashleyMember
Hey BB and MTF...

I can somewhat relate to this as well. The whole thing sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. Also, I want people to understand how "bad" I am, but the catch with that is that I'm too scared to let people get close enough to me to realize that. So I'm forever (well, maybe that will change) stuck in limbo between the two. I think this is also where the self-fulfilling prophecy comes in, too, because I know that I am consciously and unconsciously (probably) doing, saying, or thinking things that prove that I am just that bad, but only to myself, since I'm too scared/worried what other people's reactions would be if everything was out in the open.

Even more of a reason to give you MAJOR props, MTF. Smiler Regardless of what ends up happening with your T, you did a seriously brave thing!
mtfmtfMember
BB:

I'm glad you're seeing a spiritual director for help with this. It sounds really helpful and I hope it gives you the direction you need. As far as other issues with OCD, I don't know that I have other issues. If I gave it more thought I could likely come up with something, but right now I should be in bed Big Grin, so I will think on it some more. Mostly I know a lot of my issues are with my mind spinning. Obsessive thoughts and then compulsive behaviors to get rid of the thoughts or the anxiety produced by the obsessive thoughts. But it's not typical OCD, like hand washing, checking stove or door locks, windows, etc. I'm sure though that there are other ways that it manifests itself. I'll see what I can come up with. And thanks for 'normalizing' my issues. This forum is one thing I have been so grateful to have found. Before I found all of you wonderful people I truly thought I was alone with my issues and that was one of the worst feelings ever. It's nice to know I'm not alone! Smiler


Monte:

quote:
...I would just sometimes raise the issue, when it became problematic, in an email (clearly, I thought ...but clearly not clear enough) but my T would never quite catch on, and I would let it go...but stew on it. Then walk away for months at a time. The biggest problem is my fear. I believe if the issue is addressed clearly and honestly by me (...you or anyone else ) it will be explored by a competent T.


See, I'm in the same jam. I tried to be clear with my T too, and she just doesn't get it and then I let it go. Last session after we worked through the internet searching stuff, she asked me where I wanted to go next. What did I want to work on now? Of course I wanted to say, "On our relationship. I want to talk about what's going on with me and you, why I feel like this, what this is all about." But I feel like I have to protect her from me (and I don't know if that's MY STUFF, or if it's because I am feeling that vibe from her), so instead I asked her what she meant. Then she said, "Do you want to focus on your relationship with husband, mom, sister, a friend?" Our relationship wasn't included in there at all and my heart sank. And of course I wasn't about to say, "I want to work on us!" So I said, "I guess on my relationship with my husband." She said she could tell that wasn't what I really wanted, and that I didn't sound too excited or enthused about it, and I told her I wasn't but that I know that's an important relationship and needs help the most. What I should have said was that I wanted to work on my relationship with her first because it's the one that is bothering me most right now. Even though it may not be a 'primary' relationship (although it is to ME), it's really at the forefront of my life at the moment and has become all-consuming, and I don't think she realizes that. Well, maybe she does, but she's trying to shift my focus off of her and onto my husband, and it just doesn't work that way.

I guess what I'm really getting at here is that I feel like no matter how clearly and honestly I adress this, no matter how open I am, no matter how much I cry about it in front of her, I fear that she will still avoid the issue. I guess I can't make assumptions and assume that I know her mind and what her reactions will be because I truly don't. That is not fair. But so far based on the past with her, it kind of feels like that's what I'll get.

quote:
I am over-protective, shy and evasive and very prone to panicking and skillfully leading the conversation in another direction when it gets challenging. He has said some days I'm just too smart for him and he doesn't realise he's been duped until my follow up email.


Yep. We've too much in common, Monte Big Grin . In fact, my T called today to check up on me and to let me know I'm on her cancellation list for this next week so maybe I'll get in sooner than the 5th. Anyway, when she asked me how I was, I lied. Frowner I realized just now that I do that a lot. I am in the bad habit of saying that I'm okay, even when I'm not. I really wanted to tell her that I'm angry that she still seems to be avoiding my attachment to her. I actually felt a bit angry on the phone, although it was really more nervous than anything. I just took the conversation in a different direction and made it about something entirely different than what it was really about and she didn't question me at all. She bought it hook, line and sinker. Kinda makes me mad, but I have to remind myself that she told me just a few weeks ago that she can't read my mind!! I wish she could sometimes. Sure would make this mess a whole lot easier!!!! Mad


Kashley:

quote:
I want people to understand how "bad" I am, but the catch with that is that I'm too scared to let people get close enough to me to realize that. So I'm forever (well, maybe that will change) stuck in limbo between the two.


Yep. I isolate myself a lot because I don't want people to 'see' the real me. If they do I'm sure they'll be outta here! I just bought a book I need to read called "The Seven Levels of Intimacy". Really good so far, although I'm not really far into it. It talks about how that is the number one fear of every human being on the planet; that if we are known at our deepest level, we will be rejected. Sad. We all want intimacy, we all want to be loved, but we all fear that it won't ever happen, and certainly that it won't happen on the level that we need or want it to happen at.

Thanks for the props, K! I know I did what I had to do. She has been very good about it all, and that is nice. It just feels 'wrong' because it's not what I would get in the 'real world' from regular people, ya know? But I feel like the more I put out there, the more I am willing to put out there (well, kinda Big Grin ), and maybe one of these days I'll get the guts to spill what I need to to make some REAL progress! Yeah...right. Roll Eyes We'll see!


MTF
jonesjonesMember
Hi all. Monte and MTF, I just want to offer you my whole-hearted encouragement for just giving it your all with your T's and saying EVERYTHING you possibly can about what you feel.

Since I finally spat it out with my t a couple of months ago about the breach between us, things have got better and better and better. She is my smart, perceptive, attuned T again. It took me several goes to get it out, and she seemed so fricking obtuse while I was trying! But I am going to lose her for real soon and it would be so much worse if we hadn't broken through to that connection.

Monte -
quote:
I believe if the issue is addressed clearly and honestly by me (...you or anyone else ) it will be explored by a competent T.


YES. And you need to know whether your T is this T or not. You have suffered enough.

A metaphor jumps to mind. I do some dancing - an improvisational partner dance, where one partner leads and the other follows. Teachers of this dance tell us as followers that we MUST respond honestly (physically) to the leaders - if they lead us wrongly and we correct it for them, we never get an honest connection. The leaders never learn how to lead properly, because they have no idea of the actual signals they are giving.

MTF, you were saying this about mind-reading - it just doesn't work. If we don't honestly respond with our real feelings, our Ts have no idea who we are or what the real effect of the therapy is on us. We are each unique, so they have no real way of knowing what of the myriad possibilities is happening to us.

I notice that even the good leaders at dancing will turn into bad leaders if the followers don't respond honestly. But they get much better when they get accurate feedback for their actions.

I know it's really hard to get the stuff out there, and I hope this post doesn't sound too pushy. But I really feel this strongly at the moment - it is worth the risk to know for sure, if you possibly can. It might take some time, but keep trying, keep trying, keep trying.
strummergirlstrummergirlMember
Wow, this thread has been rockin' with posts...I'm just catching up...but MTF, I just wanted to respond to one thing you said a little ways back:
quote:
She's sixty six years old and I think she's beautiful. How would that go over if I told her that?! And it's just in a motherly sort of way, like a little girl thinks her mother is the most beautiful woman in the world. It's so humiliating...

MTF, I'm sorry to hear that this feels humiliating to you. I wonder why recognizing someone's beauty, and responding to it, would feel that way? Because when I read this, it just really touched me deeply as a profoundly good thing, like something is going really right in your relationship with her. Personally I think this is the kind of connection every little girl needs with her mother. It sounds like your heart is responding to her on a very deep level. From what you have said about how your T has responded to other compliments, you are probably right that she wouldn't "take" it gracefully...but it sounds like that's because she might be less than comfortable with her own beauty, not because there is anything wrong with your seeing it. So I would vote for you to eventually tell her how you feel, even if it makes you both squirm. Big Grin

This makes me think of a book I borrowed from my T called "Captivating". It wouldn't be for everyone, because it is based in Christianity, but I think you've said before that you are a believer, so you might find it interesting. After I read it I went out and bought my own copy. If I could summarize what it is about (which is kind of difficult to do), it is about recognizing and living out of the beauty all of us have as women, and supporting each other in that. Here is an excerpt from the introduction:

"We have women friends who love tea parties and china, and friends who break out in hives at the thought of them. We have women friends who love to hunt, bow hunt even. Women who love to entertain and women who don't. Women who are professors, moms, doctors, nurses, missionaries, dentists, homemakers, therapists, chefs, artists, poets, rock climbers, triathletes, secretaries, salespeople, and social workers. Beautiful women, all.

So - is a true woman Cinderella or Joan of Arc? Mary Magdalene or Oprah? How do we recover essential femininity without falling into stereotypes, or worse, ushering in more pressure and shame upon our readers? That is the last thing a woman needs. And yet, there is an essence that God has given to every woman. We share something deep and true, down in our hearts. So we venture into this exploration of femininity by way of the heart. What is at the core of a woman's heart? What are her desires? What did we long for as little girls? What do we still long for as women? And, how does a woman begin to heal from the wounds and tragedies of her life?

Sometime between the dreams of your youth and yesterday, something precious has been lost. And that treasure is your heart, your priceless feminine heart. God has set within you a femininity that is powerful and tender, fierce and alluring. No doubt it has been misunderstood. Surely it has been assaulted. But it is there, your true heart, and it is worth recovering. You are captivating."

Okay, this got a lot longer than I meant for it to get, so I'm going to wrap it up. By the way, I think you are doing great with your T and I admire all of your hard work. Big Grin

SG
seablueseablueMember
Wanting to add a few thoughts here. I can relate to the feelings that I am 'bad/disgusting/different, etc.' For me it is a core belief that anyone who really knew me would see those things and would then leave me. This is the reason that I tend to tell my T things in pieces. There are things I need to get out and I know that desperate, I must tell her this feeling, but can only do it in small doses and then need to step back and gauge her reaction. I need to feel sure she isn't going to leave me before I can disclose more. I also think I often need time to process what just happened. Eeker I very often am unable to process entire sessions until hours or days later, and the thoughts and feelings change so much in that time. I think that is fairly common. I used to try to force things and then I would find myself shutting down, and we would completely miss each other. I would feel so hurt, frustrated that she would have no idea what I was trying to tell her, and I would feel like she wasn't listening/caring enough. My new pattern of disclosing in small doses seems to work for me. It helps me to see things that come up much more clearly instead of the constant spinning I experienced before. (Yes, I still spin frequently, but much less) It is interesting to me that I will think to myself - oh, I could never tell her that!! Then 2 weeks later, I am sitting in her office telling her THAT. I find that I can be honest with her much more of the time when I listen to my own comfort level and use this approach. Of course, her reaction is critical. If I sense anything, all bets are off. One session she was moving her foot, and stopped when I said something that felt big for me. Immediately, I found myself shutting down and disconnecting. And, there are still so many times I just can't disclose things. Just last week when she told me about her upcoming vacation, we had a pretty profound moment of connection, and I felt completely flooded with gratitude and love for her - I could feel her love/care on a very different level than I had ever before. I so wanted to express this to her, but could not get the words out - partly because they are difficult words to say, and also I was in that childish state where I tend to just lose words and am not able to communicate well. I was really sad to have let the moment go by.
Jones, I love your dance analogy! I know that I am losing focus when my thoughts are - how can I appear THIS way, or how can I manipulate things so she thinks THIS about me. I have to remember that even though I want her to see the good stuff about me, and none of the bad stuff, I am paying her to help me work out the bad stuff. I have to let her see it. Roll Eyes
starfishstarfishMember
Ditto to that seablue

I still can't believe my T isn't going to walk away when I tell her what I do, or not want to sit and hold my hand and support me when I tell of the difficult experiences, that she wouldn't touch me if she knew. Can't believe that she doesn't think I am bad or damaged goods, that I can't have explained myself fully, because if she really knew then she wouldn't still be there telling me I am a good person. She tells me she does really know, and there is nothing remotely bad about me - why can't I believe her?I tell her I wish she would walk away, that might be easier because that's what I expect her always to do - but she never does...

starfish
mtfmtfMember
Jones:

Let me see if I get what you're saying about the dancing and how it applies to therapy. If the leader messes up, the follower isn't supposed to do the step correctly, they're supposed to 'mess up', too? Is that what you mean by responding honestly? I think that's what you're saying. So that in therapy would translate into me allowing my T to see how her words and actions affect me without 'correcting' myself in order to hide her 'mistakes'? I'm lost... I think I know what you're saying, but I'm not totally sure.

I know that until she sees the real me--all of me, we're just playing a guessing game. She wants me to be totally honest with her, and I want to be too. It's just really hard. She said we've both stepped on enough eggs walking on eggshells around each other to make an egg salad, and that if we're going to step on anything it ought to be grapes so we can make some really good grape juice. Big Grin I'm sure she's tired of not seeing me because I'm hiding, and she's not the kind of T to sit around and wait patiently for me to take years to decide to open up. She told me some of her colleagues at the hospital have patients they've been seeing for ten years. She sees that as dependency, not therapy, so I know she moves people along as quickly as they are able to move. That's her 'kick-butt' way. Wink Part of me thinks it's great, and of course part of me would love to hang around for ten years!! Big Grin

I know though that I need to put it all out there--EVERYTHING--as you said. And I will keep trying! I may just write her another letter that I will read to her during my next session. I really hate doing that, but for the really hard-to-say stuff like this, I think it's better to get it out that way than to not get it out at all. What do you think? Thanks for your encouragement, Jones! I really appreciate it!! Smiler


Strummergirl

Thank you for seeing and expressing that something is going right in my relationship with my T. Yes, she means a great deal to me and my heart is responding to her on a deep level. I feel a deep connection to her that is hard to explain, and I feel that she feels a connection to me also, as she has mentioned it before, and shows her care for me in ways that she doesn't have to as my T. I will tell her how I feel, I just need to figure out how to do it in a way that won't be so difficult that I falter. I know we'll both squirm Big Grin , but I think it would be good for both of us. Smiler

Thanks for sharing the excerpt from that book. I am going to look into it because it sounds like something I need to read. Yes, I'm a believer, and anything spiritually uplifting and strengthening is what I need right now. Thanks for your compliments and kind words of encouragement, SG!! Smiler


Seablue:

I agree that getting stuff out there to our Ts in smaller doses is a good idea for those of us that really struggle getting it out there. I'm like you with needing to step back and process what just happened, and that sometimes it takes me days to 'get' what happened at a session. I too try to gauge my Ts reaction, but she has tried to encourage me to ask her what her reaction is about if I am not sure, and not to spin over it because I can't read her mind and I am not supposed to make assumptions, either. She is insisting that I ask her what she means when she says something that hurts me, or makes me wonder what she is saying or thinking ("Are you smoking grass?" was what she used as an example question for me to ask her Big Grin), and not to let it go and then spin on it for the next week or so. Now if I could just DO THAT!! That's the hard part.

I too shut down, and then I feel like that's pretty much the end of the session because I have a really hard time coming back to it. I'm glad that you've found an approach to opening up that works for you and allows you to make progress, even if it's at a slower pace than you'd like. I often feel like I'm moving at less than a snail's pace, but I know I'm making progress nonetheless. Slow and steady wins the race, right?

I'm glad you were able to have that profound moment of connection with your T before her vacation. That is wonderful! Smiler And there will be others I'm sure, so don't feel bad that you missed an opportunity to tell her how you were feeling. You'll get another chance, and by then there will likely be even greater things to share and a deeper connection between you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and what works for you. I can always use new ideas! Smiler


Starfish:

It's strange how they just accept us, 'warts and all' as my T likes to say, isn't it? It's hard to understand it, but I am grateful for it and hope that through having that unconditional acceptance from her, I can learn to accept myself, with all my faults, shortcomings, and 'ugliness' and be able to see and embrace the beauty and the goodness and the strengths that she sees in me. That will be such a priceless gift for which I will be eternally grateful.


Emogirl:

Don't know that we've 'met', so hi! And yeah, I am like that, too. I want my T to only see the good stuff about me and never the bad. But like you and seablue, I realize that I have to let her see the bad stuff, or I'll never grow. It's tough...


Thanks all! Big Grin

MTF
jonesjonesMember
Hi MTF -

I think maybe my analogy is a bit clunky! But how you understand it is pretty much how I meant. Let me try to tease it out a bit more (and make it work!!)

In dancing sometimes as a follower you know that if you do what your leader is trying to get you to do, you will lose balance, or run out of room, or end up in an awkward position. You are going to have a reaction that won't work. So you COULD do something a bit different (to what was led) to 'correct' it - but then the beginner leaders don't know what the difference is between what they were asking you to do and what you actually did. So they'll probably lead it the same way next time. It ends up like that 'guessing game' you're talking about, because the leader's signals never quite match up with the follower's actions - instead it's two people pretending to communicate (or one may not know the other is pretending!).

So yeah, for me that feels like the same thing as when we have a reaction in therapy and we hide it. It's not so much that our t's are necessarily making mistakes, but that something might be a mistake for this client - and they need to know.

Since I had a big reaction to my t misunderstanding me, she is really careful to check her interpretations with me, and to give me room to think about whether something feels right or not. It's just something I need, and we know that now. She only knows that because I (eventually) showed her how hurt I was that she'd made a particular wrong interpretation. (For me this is like when I was small and any mistake I made was interpreted as being an intentional attempt to hurt someone.) Now she's careful around certain things, she double-checks, AND she knows what I look and sound like when I'm feeling hurt, lost and disconnected - it's always been obvious to me, but actually it wasn't to her before.

I do think another letter is a great idea, if you read it to her - the more you get it out there, the lighter and freer you will feel, I reckon! You have already made leaps and bounds of progress with communicating some extremely tough stuff - and your t has met you each step of the way. You can do this.
mtfmtfMember
Jones,

Thanks for explaining your analogy in greater detail. I understand it now! Big Grin It wasn't clunky, I just didn't get it because a)I'm not a dancer and b)I would be the kind of follower that would correct the leader's step to keep myself from ending up falling over or ending up in that awkward position. Wink But I see how that could be detrimental to the beginner leader, or even a seasoned leader if they were not really 'attuned' to their partner. I am glad you have a greater connection with your T now because you were able to show her your pain from her misinterpretation. That's what my T wants from me, but it's hard for me to do. Yikes. I know if I really want to connect with her and have that very important attunement with her that I have to let her know me and allow her to see me through my being totally honest with her in all our interactions together.

Yes, the more I get out there, the lighter and freer I DO feel, so I know that if I keep going in that direction things will just keep getting better and better! Now if I can just get in touch with my feelings so I can put them down on paper! Wink Thanks again for your encouragement. It means a lot!! Smiler

MTF

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